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Anthar Thebess
803
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:07:46 -
[1] - Quote
This game really needs good isk sink. Currently economy is slowly falling because prices are growing and growing.
Reasons for current situations are many : - ships where boosted , more dps = faster and more efficient ratting - smart bombing ratting fleets are all around renter space became quite common - ships are dying ( each lost ship don't remove isk from game, just create it from the air ) - etc
Some drastic measures needs to be put in place. This also have to be done without harming any current system - like LP Stores, or missions. Please post your ideas here , maybe some Dev will look at this and put some of your ideas into actions
PHOEBE Retrospective
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Anthar Thebess
803
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:08:12 -
[2] - Quote
Some of my ideas to start.
1. SOV SYSTEM. Sov bills should be increased at least 3 times. This was not touched since 2008 , and since then isk lost its value few times.
2. RATS, RATS When you kill them , something bad happens. Yes cutting bounty will hurt wallet of many players. In return i suggest that rats will drop more stuff you can use or reprocess. Will this hurt miners ? In some way, but it could also be some remedy for nullsec industry at the same time.
Eg. Bounty cut by 50%, and loot you can find in a wreck doubled.
PHOEBE Retrospective
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Iris Bravemount
Eldar Army La Division Bleue
346
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:36:07 -
[3] - Quote
1) Remove insurance
Lore reason: They're bankrupt, we've been scamming them for too long.
Actual reason: Player ship destruction shouldn't be an ISK faucet.
2) Double the ISK price of LP store items (and sec for tags)
Lore reason: They adjusted their prices for inflation. Consumer associations are protesting, but they have better lawyers.
Actual reason: We need moar ISK sinks.
3) Make NPC-owned gate travel cost some ISK.
Lore reason: The owners decided that the maintenance and operation costs should be paid for by the users.
Actual reason: We need moar ISK sinks and it would make Jita price dictation harder. Also rewards finding and using WH shortcuts. Sovspace would have no cost by default, but gates would increase sov bills and sovholders can set a usage price (up to a high but reasonable limit to prevent abuse).
Edit: maybe make it proportional to ship size, to avoid penalizing new players too much.
4) Make the broker fee of market order modification minimum a set amount of 2.5% of total items price +2.5% of individual item price.
Lore reason: Greedy brokers got greedier. Not much you can do.
Actual reason: We need moar ISK sinks and we don't like 0.01 isk wars.
"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1372
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:37:06 -
[4] - Quote
Higher transaction fee/taxes on the market. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
498
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:40:19 -
[5] - Quote
This feels like a whine about plex prices in disguise. |
Anthar Thebess
803
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:53:08 -
[6] - Quote
afkalt wrote:This feels like a whine about plex prices in disguise. My alts don't like plex prices, but this is not about this. But about flooding game with isk.
I can easily earn 1bil , but for a new player thats totally different. High isk prices are hitting new players , not the "old guard"
As for other posts : - Higher transaction taxes , ok but maybe for those that likes to play the 0.01 isk game. Not 100 isk for changing the order but % of the price.
- double isk price of LP store items . Yes this could be good, but, for example me and many other people have tons of LP store items. This could just double the value of stuff we have. Yea!
PHOEBE Retrospective
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Iris Bravemount
Eldar Army La Division Bleue
346
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Posted - 2014.11.21 14:26:05 -
[7] - Quote
afkalt wrote:This feels like a whine about plex prices in disguise.
> Accuses people of disguised discourse > Post with an anonymous alt
"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
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Iris Bravemount
Eldar Army La Division Bleue
346
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Posted - 2014.11.21 14:27:35 -
[8] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote: - double isk price of LP store items . Yes this could be good, but, for example me and many other people have tons of LP store items. This could just double the value of stuff we have. Yea!
Not really, unless you hold on to them long enough for the market price to catch up, and this can be very long.
"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
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Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10682
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Posted - 2014.11.21 14:35:54 -
[9] - Quote
Rather than try and create more isk sinks, why not go after one of the greatest instances of isk faucets?
Nerf, or completely remove insurance. It really is not justified in it's existence any longer.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Anthar Thebess
803
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Posted - 2014.11.21 14:45:40 -
[10] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Rather than try and create more isk sinks, why not go after one of the greatest instances of isk faucets?
Nerf, or completely remove insurance. It really is not justified in it's existence any longer.
Insurance is good sometimes.
More than once i got my self into position ... 2mil left on a walled. My ship is dying , and im in a middle of the dictor bubble. Heh , i will have isk to upgrade my pod.
On the other hand ... pod upgrades will be no more. So lets keep insurance payout for accounts where total asset value < 3b.
Remember that insurance is paid when ship dies. When you move out your smartbombing fleet and clear a heaven every 2 minutes ( including warp time ) this makes more damage to eve . 30 havens per hour , 35mil in bounty each ( not including stuff you can get from rats, and faction spawns )
PHOEBE Retrospective
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Iris Bravemount
Eldar Army La Division Bleue
346
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Posted - 2014.11.21 14:49:29 -
[11] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Remember that insurance is paid when ship dies. When you move out your smartbombing fleet and clear a heaven every 2 minutes ( including warp time ) this makes more damage to eve . 30 havens per hour , 35mil in bounty each ( not including stuff you can get from rats, and faction spawns )
I have literally no clue what you're trying to say here.
"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
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Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10684
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Posted - 2014.11.21 14:53:26 -
[12] - Quote
There will be no more clone upgrades soon.
That is the only remaining justification for the existence of insurance in this game.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Anthar Thebess
803
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Posted - 2014.11.21 14:53:45 -
[13] - Quote
Iris Bravemount wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:Remember that insurance is paid when ship dies. When you move out your smartbombing fleet and clear a heaven every 2 minutes ( including warp time ) this makes more damage to eve . 30 havens per hour , 35mil in bounty each ( not including stuff you can get from rats, and faction spawns ) I have literally no clue what you're trying to say here. That ship insurance is less damaging to eve than excessive isk flow from ratting.
Dead Battleship = 100mil payout = 3 cleared sanctums.
PHOEBE Retrospective
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Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
46
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Posted - 2014.11.21 14:55:20 -
[14] - Quote
Do not remove Insurance, remove the basic which you get even if you don-¦t insure your ship.
Reduce the LP farming of the FW militias.
Reduce payment in highsec, spread the Lv4 Missions not so close make it one L4 Agent (2 Lv3-¦s, 4 Lv2-¦s) for each NPC-Corp. Make the belts respawn a little dynamic, so that intensive miners have to move around.
Let the player destroy/control more Corpstations/stargates. Not only the poses.
Make bountyhunter worth it-¦s name.
Make FW fighting over a dynamic Area not a static place.
Remove Incursions of the highsec (it seems senceless that Concord is okay with sansha invading their systems)
Add more Faction/pirate ships. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10685
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Posted - 2014.11.21 15:04:23 -
[15] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote: That ship insurance is less damaging to eve than excessive isk flow from ratting.
Dead Battleship = 100mil payout = 3 cleared sanctums.
And one of them is actually playing the game, and the other is a 100% passive isk faucet.
Income flowing into the game is acceptable.
And like I said above, the only reason insurance is still justified any longer is clone costs, which are being removed. It has no justification for it's existence.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Anthar Thebess
803
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Posted - 2014.11.21 15:06:22 -
[16] - Quote
LP FW farming is not the big issue. I don't know much about FW, but i think they get mostly LP not the isk. I think the same situation is in case of the incursions. Base payouts are in LP?
If we relay want to help we need to limit the places where the isk is being generated and introduce places where this isk will be pulled from market.
For example currently some ship skins are being bought by ARUM ( i know that CCP will not change this, as this generate income ) but just for example. If you could buy ship skin using ISK , then all this isk is removed from the system.
The same way applies to all kind of bills, especially sov bills.
PHOEBE Retrospective
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Anthar Thebess
803
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Posted - 2014.11.21 15:08:27 -
[17] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote: That ship insurance is less damaging to eve than excessive isk flow from ratting.
Dead Battleship = 100mil payout = 3 cleared sanctums.
And one of them is actually playing the game, and the other is a 100% passive isk faucet. Income flowing into the game is acceptable. And like I said above, the only reason insurance is still justified any longer is clone costs, which are being removed. It has no justification for it's existence.
I agree about removing ship insurance, but we have to put some protection on the new players.
Loosing a cruiser can be devastating hit for them, and we all know that they will mount EM hards, and use missiles and guns on their ships while trying to hit Gurista rats.
PHOEBE Retrospective
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
625
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Posted - 2014.11.21 15:19:46 -
[18] - Quote
1. Get rid of insurance. 2. Do something to nerf smartbomb ratting. It could be as simple as having multiple spawn points in all anomalies. 3. Reduce all rat bounties and incursion payouts by some percentage.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2014.11.21 15:22:53 -
[19] - Quote
actuarial tables for insurance. if i tried to scam insurance as much as gankers, blobbers, botters/afk'ers etc do IRL, i'd have to be paying 10x as much or even be denied insurance.
parking fees for jita, sucked out of your wallet by the tick after undock delay.
spam fees in jita. you got something to say, pay for it, eve ain't 'murica.
gate tolls for congested systems, for que jumping reasons.
nullsec tollbooths, npc protection rackets, wartime tarrifs/surcharges so many that i'm too drunk to write up. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1337
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Posted - 2014.11.21 15:26:30 -
[20] - Quote
Docking fee for all NPC stations, to be paid upon docking and every 15 minutes thereafter.
Once your wallet runs ou, you'll be expelled from the station ofc.
Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance.
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
770
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Posted - 2014.11.21 15:50:15 -
[21] - Quote
Iris Bravemount wrote:1) Remove insurance
Lore reason: They're bankrupt, we've been scamming them for too long.
Actual reason: Player ship destruction shouldn't be an ISK faucet.
2) Double the ISK price of LP store items (and sec for tags)
Lore reason: They adjusted their prices for inflation. Consumer associations are protesting, but they have better lawyers.
Actual reason: We need moar ISK sinks.
3) Make NPC-owned gate travel cost some ISK.
Lore reason: The owners decided that the maintenance and operation costs should be paid for by the users.
Actual reason: We need moar ISK sinks and it would make Jita price dictation harder. Also rewards finding and using WH shortcuts. Sovspace would have no cost by default, but gates would increase sov bills and sovholders can set a usage price (up to a high but reasonable limit to prevent abuse).
Edit: maybe make it proportional to ship size, to avoid penalizing new players too much.
4) Make the broker fee of market order modification minimum a set amount of 2.5% of total items price +2.5% of individual item price.
Lore reason: Greedy brokers got greedier. Not much you can do.
Actual reason: We need moar ISK sinks and we don't like 0.01 isk wars.
1) Good idea. Maybe limit insurance to toons less than 90 days old. So new players aren't hit too hard from ship losses while they are still learning.
2) Good idea.
3) I'm not sure about this. I don't think people should be able to strand themselves somewhere with no ability to make ISK or leave the system they are in without said ISK. Maybe if pods were always free.
4) I'm not sure market fees are the right way to do it. This just attacks the players that move ISK around instead of the ones that actually make it. I think bumping NPC corp tax up by 1% would be more helpful. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
770
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Posted - 2014.11.21 16:00:57 -
[22] - Quote
Tabyll Altol wrote:Do not remove Insurance, remove the basic which you get even if you don-¦t insure your ship.
Reduce the LP farming of the FW militias.
Reduce payment in highsec, spread the Lv4 Missions not so close make it one L4 Agent (2 Lv3-¦s, 4 Lv2-¦s) for each NPC-Corp. Make the belts respawn a little dynamic, so that intensive miners have to move around.
Let the player destroy/control more Corpstations/stargates. Not only the poses.
Make bountyhunter worth it-¦s name.
Make FW fighting over a dynamic Area not a static place.
Remove Incursions of the highsec (it seems senceless that Concord is okay with sansha invading their systems)
Add more Faction/pirate ships. 1) Insurance is a terrible idea in the EVE of today. It needs to be removed or limited to characters less than a certain age.
2) LP is not ISK so this will do nothing. In fact LP stores help remove ISK from the game.
3) Reducing the number of L4 agents in hisec will just make for more crowed systems. Most of the income from L4's actually comes from LP, which is actually an ISK sink. In the end L4 missions do not contribute to inflation as much as you might think. Mining does not generate ISK so messing with miners is pointless here.
4) This is interesting but not really related to ISK sinks unless there are sov bills involved.
5) Bounty hunting, for all its brokenness, does not create or destroy ISK, it only moves it around.
6) How would this help?
7) I see no reason to deny hi sec players an entire catagory of content. However moving more of the payout from incursions from ISK to LP would help.
8) How would this help? |
Anhenka
Daktaklakpak.
648
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Posted - 2014.11.21 16:19:10 -
[23] - Quote
So an anonymous player posts saying that we need isk sinks cause there's too much isk, and demands that the mechanic that helps keep PvP happening in the game (Insurance) be gutted, that sov costs be tripled, ratting income be halved... Effectively gutting the only things that makes living and fighting in nullsec or lowsec worthwhile.
Also special posting to make sure that the only mechanic he cares about "Missions and LP stores" not be touched.
Here's my proposal: Keep NPC pirates BS and BC, as well as ships of opposing factions from the empire, out of Concord controlled space. Faction Police, Concord, regulated gates... There are plenty of mechanics by which which this could happen.
Reducing missions to Lv 1-3 missions that only spawn frigs, dessies, and cruisers would cut down on the massive spigot that is hordes of mission runners running missions, forcing them to either go to low/null to run their missions, or accept the lower pay of a capsuleer beat cop policing up the small ships that the empires couldn't completely stamp out.
Or on a slightly less "My way or the highway" proposed action, you could drastically decrease the amount of ISK gained by shooting rats in highsec and missions (to 10% or so), and implement an LP reward from the Empire owner for cleaning up their space. Kill a rat in a mission, get Amarr Navy LP if missioning in Amarr space.
Since LP Stores are isk sinks instead of faucets, this wuld rapidly switch the highsec mission faucet into a sink instead.
P.S: A degree of inflation is expected in a system like EVE's, PLEX is the only item that is displaying massively different behavior than the rest of the item basket. Don't judge the entire system by the one item with special value. Aside from PLEX's, the rest of the item basket is relatively stable, certainly not indicating any special drastic need for slashing ingame income.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
464
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Posted - 2014.11.21 16:21:46 -
[24] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:I can easily earn 1bil , but for a new player thats totally different. High isk prices are hitting new players , not the "old guard"
Cool story!
I can "make" one billion in somewhere the range of three or four weeks and have no idea what you are talking about?
You want to nerf people, please go ahead, it's much apprectiated.
Now if we are talking isk sinks, just consider things that are not "forced upon" us but choices we are willing to make.
Just two weeks ago Catherine had an amazing idea about faction guns being affordable, usefull but not overpowered in a way that would increase powercreep or being op.
If we could "reconsider" faction items to be more affordable in LP cost and isk but ditch the faction tag collection issue I am pretty sure that they would be more desired to be used.
Anthar, when you talk about breaking ships create isk, they are also a mineral sink. Despite what 00-folks are thinking, super may be a large one-time sink but not as much as the smaller craft that are destroyed every hour of every day.
That "free-marketing" thing that is going on right is sickening me worse than an Ebola outbreak in Europe.
Once upon a time we had this base-price of all things which was a good thing. Everyone around new exactly how much isk you have to have to buy x ship and fit it.
Now people that are in dire need of a gigantic nerf bat are selling plex like candy for one billion. Is this good?
No it is not it is an isk-power creep.
signature
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
970
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Posted - 2014.11.21 16:25:10 -
[25] - Quote
-crew wages -ship maintenance
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Iris Bravemount
Eldar Army La Division Bleue
347
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Posted - 2014.11.21 16:25:25 -
[26] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:3) I'm not sure about this. I don't think people should be able to strand themselves somewhere with no ability to make ISK or leave the system they are in without said ISK. Maybe if pods were always free.
4) I'm not sure market fees are the right way to do it. This just attacks the players that move ISK around instead of the ones that actually make it. I think bumping NPC corp tax up by 1% would be more helpful.
The gate fee could be based on ship mass, making pod travel super cheap. It would also make more sense lore-wise.
The people who move ISK around do make shitloads of it, so taxing them removes a shitload of ISK from the game.
"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
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Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
321
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Posted - 2014.11.21 16:26:27 -
[27] - Quote
Kick incursions in the baws, less isk and less whining about shinies in the Tug.
Goddamn, I'm good. Oh yeah, semi-permanent attribute boosters are the future, embrace them for their genius and all your isk sink needs
Travelling at the speed of love.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2640
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Posted - 2014.11.21 16:49:16 -
[28] - Quote
o Remove ship insurance. (Not a sink, but a tightening of the faucet). Every corporation in Eve should make a profit - even the insurance companies. o X%/year "wealth tax" on isk. Somebody has to pay for jump gate maintenance... o Variable rat bounties. CONCORD adjusts rat bounties based on overall "pool" of isk it has to pay them out. If too many people are ratting, then the price of rat bounties drops.
Done.
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Jackson Apollo
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2014.11.21 17:07:32 -
[29] - Quote
+1 for non-market isk sinks
the last 30 days cost me plenty in fees and taxes. I think that's quite enough.
I don't buy insurance so nerf that however you want.
Gate fees are stupid because, well, that's stupid. Unless I can warp from Jita to Rens without gates (probably ~5 days in a mammoth ~17 hours in a leopard.)
ISK sinks should be a thing you somehow op-in for (like buying LP stuff or losing a ship to a gank fleet) using gates is mandatory therefore should not cost ISK.
So basically: Nerf ISK but only if it wont nerf *my* isk |
Anhenka
Daktaklakpak.
648
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Posted - 2014.11.21 17:11:25 -
[30] - Quote
Jackson Apollo wrote: So basically: Nerf ISK but only if it wont nerf *my* isk
Basically sums up every single damn post in this cesspool of a thread.
Not that anyone yet has actually stopped to ask if there is a need for a massive isk sink. Plex prices are not the sole price markers of the larger market as a whole after all. |
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