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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
508
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Posted - 2014.11.24 09:12:02 -
[1] - Quote
Read it here after a corpie mentioned it (after seeing ishtar fleet #54168471837373874138671438133717)
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2n138w/cagali_cagali_ishtars_are_doing_8_of_all_pvp/
Anyone have anything more? Context, clarification?
Of have I been trolled?
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Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5984
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Posted - 2014.11.24 09:23:34 -
[2] - Quote
MFW Ishtars get used more than anything else for tower bashes.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1586
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Posted - 2014.11.24 09:51:19 -
[3] - Quote
I'd be more interested in what ship types cause most damage on Ishtars... |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
508
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Posted - 2014.11.24 09:58:01 -
[4] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:I'd be more interested in what ship types cause most damage on Ishtars...
Other ishtars |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
210
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Posted - 2014.11.24 10:49:50 -
[5] - Quote
Yea, the only counter to Ishtars is:
A: Run away. B: Bring more Ishtars.
Everyone i know agrees that Ishtars are very OP. Even the people who fly them.
This of course comes from the fact they have a highly bonused primary weapon system that requires no cap, no power grid, no cpu and of course it quite immune to ewar.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
531
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Posted - 2014.11.24 11:02:43 -
[6] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Yea, the only counter to Ishtars is:
A: Run away. B: Bring more Ishtars.
Everyone i know agrees that Ishtars are very OP. Even the people who fly them.
This of course comes from the fact they have a highly bonused primary weapon system that requires no cap, no power grid, no cpu and of course it quite immune to ewar.
Last I heard people can shoot my 200 mm railgun II's on my moa to disable my dps. **** sucks when a frig gets near you and starts shooting your guns. Please CCP fix it.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5985
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Posted - 2014.11.24 11:11:19 -
[7] - Quote
For the record...
Stratios > Ishtar
because Stratios = cloaky Ishtar.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Bloody Slave
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
175
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Posted - 2014.11.24 11:57:44 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah, nerf it, please, so people don't need to waste time training for anything but Strategic Cruisers.
BTW, I don't know why CCP keep this skill system running for all this time... All that "amazing" HACs that are very "popular", I have plenty of Eagles fitted in lots of stations because I use them a LOT!
(sarcasm off)
If your balls are hurt and bleeding don't sit in a pool full of piranhas (note to myself: don't complain in GD)
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
508
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Posted - 2014.11.24 12:12:37 -
[9] - Quote
Bloody Slave wrote:EDIT: Just to ask: The remaining 92%? Proteus? Loki? Or it could be possibly T1 frigates? I love them all.
That was the context I was hoping for. I'd like to see the origin of the numbers etc.
And if I had to bet, it'll be cats and talos out in front, I think. |
Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5986
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Posted - 2014.11.24 12:14:29 -
[10] - Quote
Bloody Slave wrote:Yeah, nerf it, please, so people don't need to waste time training for anything but Strategic Cruisers. BTW, I don't know why CCP keep this skill system running for all this time... All that "amazing" HACs that are very "popular", I have plenty of Eagles fitted in lots of stations because I use them a LOT! (sarcasm off) EDIT: Just to ask: The remaining 92%? Proteus? Loki? Or it could be possibly T1 frigates? I love them all.
Regardless of what the 'flavour of the weak' is (pun intended), the strong will always find a way to bring it down.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25595
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Posted - 2014.11.24 12:18:13 -
[11] - Quote
even if the data is true, it has to be interpreted correctly. there are also more factors to consider.
and you can create the appearance of 'broken' with any ship, using sheer numbers.
if it's being used a lot, it's probably due to skills. first, it's a cruiser hull. the same class of ship as logistics and recons, both popular and effective T2 roles, which mean the hull skill has been trained to V. training one T2 ship means the core skills have been trained for other ships as well.
drones. they're a versatile damage system and they apply to any ship with a drone bay. it's a good idea to have those trained if you plan to undock at all, and apply dps to something, somewhere, sometime.
they're also automated. there's a good bit of macro supported in the client, that you would need ISBoxer to rival the afk effectiveness with other weapon types. for another ship to be as prevalent as Ishtars, they need the same amount of automation.
players call me crazy for saying racial T2 skills should happen, but that's just the beginning. the whole skill sheet needs to be split racially. that way, the only reason a pilot flies an ishtar is because they trained gallente cruiser skills and gallente supports, and gallente HAC. ...not because your ratting domi + logistics cruiser character happened to have everything to be an effective ishtar pilot within 2 days.
the other general balancing options are nerf the effective thing, or buff something else. depending on what rise/fozzie/greyscale (whoever) decide to do, it could be very good or very bad.
my general opinion? if it's not the Ishtar, it will be something else. for the sake of keeping things violent and kill-y, every other ship needs to be buffed and as effective as the Ishtar, skill sheets aside.
but. I don't have much faith in the balancing crew, and I'm pretty sure the ishtar will just be nerfed. CCP doesn't have the groinds to bring other ships up to par with the Ishtar. the best thing is just have everything-cruiser trained, which isn't that hard. my youngest pilots from 2012 are just about there.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
210
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Posted - 2014.11.24 12:21:26 -
[12] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Yea, the only counter to Ishtars is:
A: Run away. B: Bring more Ishtars.
Everyone i know agrees that Ishtars are very OP. Even the people who fly them.
This of course comes from the fact they have a highly bonused primary weapon system that requires no cap, no power grid, no cpu and of course it quite immune to ewar. Last I heard people can shoot my 200 mm railgun II's on my moa to disable my dps. **** sucks when a frig gets near you and starts shooting your guns. Please CCP fix it. The only got to of the very few people who and try and defend Ishtar fleets. And it doesn't even get close to balancing *Ishtars*. If you read my post properly, you will note that i bring up the bonuses, not that its just drones. There are plenty of other drone boats out there.
Ishtars right now are the best ship in the game.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3087
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Posted - 2014.11.24 12:25:09 -
[13] - Quote
reddit is terrible dont read reddit
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
509
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Posted - 2014.11.24 12:27:28 -
[14] - Quote
Well, I didnt actually mean this to devolve into "nerf ishtars", certainly not at first - this was more an appeal if anyone else has the numbers to hand.
I was/am keen to see the full scope of the data. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25596
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Posted - 2014.11.24 12:39:48 -
[15] - Quote
don't get stuck in the statistics, it's not an algorithmic problem. you need lateral / heuristic thinking for this one.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
472
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Posted - 2014.11.24 13:03:04 -
[16] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Yea, the only counter to Ishtars is:
A: Run away. B: Bring more Ishtars.
Everyone i know agrees that Ishtars are very OP. Even the people who fly them.
This of course comes from the fact they have a highly bonused primary weapon system that requires no cap, no power grid, no cpu and of course it quite immune to ewar.
Napocs with triage destroy ishtar fleets. However they're immobile and only defensive in nature. But yeah, ishtars are the current meta and kill off other, otherwise viable fleet doctrines. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1586
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Posted - 2014.11.24 13:03:24 -
[17] - Quote
Just like any other ship the Ishtar has a counter. While not a hard counter, the same number of RR Dominixes can hold the field against Ishtars without much trouble. In order to break reps the Ishtars would have to get too close for comfort, as damage in sentry falloff isn't optimal. One of our enemies used Ishtars a while back bashing structures, and knowing they were shield fit we formed up on an outgate they had to take. None of them survived our Curators punching into their EM holes as they jumped.
"Best ship in the game" my ass... it's a decent boat indeed, but by no means unbeatable. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
528
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Posted - 2014.11.24 13:14:36 -
[18] - Quote
I wish defender missiles would work against drones.* Make use of my useless Minmatar high slots.
Tengu fleet Ishtar fleet.
I suspect both will have a counter or nerf soon.
* with a roll face option where you can set them to work against missiles or drones like tracking / optimal script and you just have to activate them, they will seek the nearest ones.
Ideas & stuff
EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down.
Status: Bouncing on the diving board.
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
386
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Posted - 2014.11.24 13:37:45 -
[19] - Quote
Or just equip damps and Ishtars are forced to come closer or use a bomber wing to wipe out sentries. with regular drones you can equip smarts so it's not like you don't have options to kill Ishtars or rather drones but Ishtars die when drones die.
Or failing the above drop a domi fleet on them. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
528
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Posted - 2014.11.24 14:01:17 -
[20] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Or just equip damps and Ishtars are forced to come closer
Have you watched any alliance tournaments? That is with a disciplined team.
Ideas & stuff
EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down.
Status: Bouncing on the diving board.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25597
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Posted - 2014.11.24 14:05:41 -
[21] - Quote
assist the drones, though, and damps don't matter. as long as the target is within drone control range, the drones will shoot, even if the ishtar's targeting range is arm's reach.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
509
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Posted - 2014.11.24 14:06:22 -
[22] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Baneken wrote:Or just equip damps and Ishtars are forced to come closer Have you watched any alliance tournaments? That is with a disciplined team.
To be fair, a good number pulled the "LOLRAUDER WUT EWAR" card for exactly that reason.
That said, outside of the confines of a tournament, damping isnt practical in the real world. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25597
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Posted - 2014.11.24 14:08:35 -
[23] - Quote
marauders are even more pwnmobile than ishtars. I know quite a few people who are training marauder V. you're going to hear about it in the somewhat-near future.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Ama Scelesta
129
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Posted - 2014.11.24 14:24:35 -
[24] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:marauders are even more pwnmobile than ishtars. I know quite a few people who are training marauder V. you're going to hear about it in the somewhat-near future. So what you're saying is that the game needs a drone marauder. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25597
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Posted - 2014.11.24 14:40:03 -
[25] - Quote
there's a delay between something being good and people realizing it. it's not just stats, but also how it's used. kind of impossible to give someone the complete picture regarding why something is imba. if OP is waiting for some eureka moment, it's not going to happen. anyone asking why will have to take other people's word for it.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
820
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Posted - 2014.11.24 15:44:41 -
[26] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:marauders are even more pwnmobile than ishtars. I know quite a few people who are training marauder V. you're going to hear about it in the somewhat-near future.
I can counter a Marauder fleet with stealth bombers. I don't know if I could do the same with an Ishtar fleet. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
160
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Posted - 2014.11.24 15:49:35 -
[27] - Quote
there is a youtube video of 2 ishtars in null that kill a LOT of people, its by a guy named salty I cant find it right now but it was salty and his friend doing pve when a local alliance jumped them and they killed a lot of people
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25599
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Posted - 2014.11.24 15:50:47 -
[28] - Quote
Ocih wrote:Rain6637 wrote:marauders are even more pwnmobile than ishtars. I know quite a few people who are training marauder V. you're going to hear about it in the somewhat-near future. I can counter a Marauder fleet with stealth bombers. I don't know if I could do the same with an Ishtar fleet. not everything goes in a fleet.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
492
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Posted - 2014.11.24 16:40:31 -
[29] - Quote
You're just lucky the CFC doesn't use ishtars on a massive scale, or they'll get nerfed even quicker.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
New Order Diplomat, contact me for all your New Order enquiries!
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ISD Ezwal
isd community communications liaisons
2773
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Posted - 2014.11.24 16:51:04 -
[30] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Ships & Modules.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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