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Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
331
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Posted - 2014.11.25 10:56:28 -
[31] - Quote
EDIT: **** it, no covers it.
Travelling at the speed of love.
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Tineoidea Asanari
Heeresversuchsanstalt The Bastion
11
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Posted - 2014.11.25 11:23:39 -
[32] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:So you say the T3 SP loss is ok because "you know what you risk," yet you don't apply the same logic to the fact that you choose to fly a dictor? See how that works?
A T3 cruiser is not vital for participating in PvP and you can keep the ammount of SP you lose pretty low. An Interdictor - or Heavy Interdictor - is vital in the task of taking down fleets and supercapitals. In the EVE you want to see I would need to train an alt specificly for dropping bubbles.
Quote:I take great offense to that. I most certainly do not. I want it to be "more meaningful" as CCP says. I want it to be hardcore. I want it to hurt when I kill you, just as it hurts when you kill me.
With the same logic I now want that you lose all skillpoints if you die. That's even more hardcore. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
516
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Posted - 2014.11.25 11:44:45 -
[33] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:afkalt wrote: Point is, people are risk averse in even a T1 frigate that costs under 10m....add potential guaranteed skill point loss and it'll be station trading online.
Is it station trading online now? No. Even if you dont like this particular proposal, the general gist of it is the same as what we have now: don't keep your clone up to date and you lose SP.
There is a difference between forgetting to update a clone and paying x hundred million to just lose LESS skill points.
And the difference between a T3 skill loss is it only affects that T3. It is also not a ship whose ENTIRE purpose it to create interdiction spheres. Imagine losing even a part of AWU V, or some other critical fitting skill. Docked up with half your crap unflyable for days. Hardly a good idea, terrible gameplay.
The notion that pod loss needs to be even more punitive is frankly ludicrous.
Current losses: Ship Modules Pod (teleported miles away from the combat, or worse for WH) Implants (either directly, or sucking up losses by never having them in the first place)
But people think we need more? This is literally up there with getting podded==biomassed.
I mean whas is the skill involved in saving or losing a pod? Exactly zero.
Why would anyone, in their right mind, EVER fight in bubble space if they are going to lose skills left, right and centre? The entrances to Thera will be camped 23/7 by smartbombing battleships for lulz.
This is actually worse than the idea to ban PvP in highsec - and hilariously the former would result in more PvP left over, if implemented. |
Gawain Edmond
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
130
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Posted - 2014.11.25 11:45:11 -
[34] - Quote
I'm wondering where the numbers for "most people in null sec fly pods without implants" comes from I'd love to see the data to back this up because lets face it; 1) All cap pilots fly with implants 2) nano pilots use snakes (all of them without fail) 3) T3 pilots have implants because they are generally interdiction nullified so can escape most things 4) why wouldn't you use implants when everyone for 50 jumps is blue 5) not using implants makes you less efficent at everything
so other than all those things and all those people who do use implants where do the numbers come from that "people in null sec fly without implants" |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
516
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Posted - 2014.11.25 11:55:18 -
[35] - Quote
Gawain Edmond wrote:I'm wondering where the numbers for "most people in null sec fly pods without implants" comes from I'd love to see the data to back this up because lets face it; 1) All cap pilots fly with implants 2) nano pilots use snakes (all of them without fail) 3) T3 pilots have implants because they are generally interdiction nullified so can escape most things 4) why wouldn't you use implants when everyone for 50 jumps is blue 5) not using implants makes you less efficent at everything
so other than all those things and all those people who do use implants where do the numbers come from that "people in null sec fly without implants"
So setting aside caps and nullied pilots (because you know...that's everyone) and that fact not everyone is part of the blue doughnut.
Hell, let's say I'm wrong and EVERYONE but me uses implants.
That means when they are podded, it hurts. So what's the problem?
There is no scenario when being podded doesnt hurt. None. At least as soon as you realise that the snowflakes/majority (delete as appropriate) with no implants just pay the price up front with an effectiveness hit. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
847
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Posted - 2014.11.25 11:57:31 -
[36] - Quote
The OP idea is utterly stupid. Most of the reasons have already been stated so I'm just voicing my "absolutely f**king no!" vote. |
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor
81
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Posted - 2014.11.25 14:56:27 -
[37] - Quote
Pretty sure I"m about to hi-jack this thread.. Sorry OP
Better idea:
Purchase "upgraded" pod
The longer you don't lose your upgraded pod (that includes clone jumps), the faster your skills train up to, say... 5% faster.
You lose your upgraded pod (get podded, clone jump), that faster train time goes back to normal.
PvPers can still PvP, they get a boost when they head to high sec or safe ground to grind for ISK. High-sec'rs can still High-sec, and they'll learn how to mine asteroids faster (woo hoo...) Pirates will still Pirate, cuz thats what pirates do.
Minimal downside if you lose your pod, slight ISK sink to buy the upgrade, and its totally optional.
Cedric
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
662
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Posted - 2014.11.25 15:39:30 -
[38] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:Pretty sure I"m about to hi-jack this thread.. Sorry OP
Better idea:
Purchase "upgraded" pod
The longer you don't lose your upgraded pod (that includes clone jumps), the faster your skills train up to, say... 5% faster.
You lose your upgraded pod (get podded, clone jump), that faster train time goes back to normal.
PvPers can still PvP, they get a boost when they head to high sec or safe ground to grind for ISK. High-sec'rs can still High-sec, and they'll learn how to mine asteroids faster (woo hoo...) Pirates will still Pirate, cuz thats what pirates do.
Minimal downside if you lose your pod, slight ISK sink to buy the upgrade, and its totally optional.
I assume we totally remove learning implants in this scenario?
Cause there's already an "upgraded pod". It's one with implants in it.
It already "Increases training speed until you get podded" Because implants.
No to anything that actively supports a player always staying safe in highsec up and beyond the learning implants. And tbh, I'm not terribly happy about the pure learning implants.
Do you not already have far more than 5% more than people running around null in a bare pod while you squat in highsec with 4's or 5's in your head? |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
847
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Posted - 2014.11.25 15:54:23 -
[39] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:I assume we totally remove learning implants in this scenario?
Cause there's already an "upgraded pod". It's one with implants in it.
It already "Increases training speed until you get podded" Because implants.
No to anything that actively supports a player always staying safe in highsec up and beyond the learning implants. And tbh, I'm not terribly happy about the pure learning implants.
Do you not already have far more than 5% more than people running around null in a bare pod while you squat in highsec with 4's or 5's in your head? This made me laugh because you hit the nail right on the head. |
Major Trant
287 Marine Regiment
1267
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Posted - 2014.11.25 15:54:56 -
[40] - Quote
Let us consider the train of thought that led to this idea:
1. Currently people have to pay a Clone Upgrade cost after losing their pod. This cost gets higher as their total SP increases. 2. If you fail to pay that cost and get podded you lose SP. 3. CCP have identified that losing SP is a hated effect, done in error, usually by newer players and a backward step that reduces player retention. 4. CCP have identified that increased clone upgrade costs for higher level SP chars, leads to those chars choosing not to PvP at all or avoid smaller cheaper ships which are more likely to be involved in PvP situations. 5. After weighing the evidence CCP have concluded that removing the clone upgrade mechanic will have positive benefits in terms of both player retention and increased PvP opportunities.
For hardcore game reasons the OP has concluded that an even more severe system is needed. Which requires a higher payment to get only a partial level of protection, while guaranteeing an SP loss in all pod kill cases.
Belatedly after a negative backlash, he knee jerk added that pods should have higher EHP and be bubble immune which would drastically reduce the instances of pod deaths in null and w-space, thus dumbing down the most hardcore areas of the game.
Dude, you clearly have realized that your original idea was bad, when you are in a hole, stop digging. You need to shut up now and let this thread fade into obscurity. |
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3098
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Posted - 2014.11.25 16:06:36 -
[41] - Quote
OP wants to replace the terrible clone mechanic we have now with an even more terrible clone mechanic.
OP is literally EA. |
Medalyn Isis
Aliastra Gallente Federation
439
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Posted - 2014.11.25 16:33:43 -
[42] - Quote
Major Trant wrote:Belatedly after a negative backlash, he knee jerk added that pods should have higher EHP and be bubble immune which would drastically reduce the instances of pod deaths in null and w-space, thus dumbing down the most hardcore areas of the game. Thank you for jumping to the worst case conclusion there about me *sarcasm off* Actually you'll find that I proposed pods being bubble immune about a year ago, and have done so whenever this issue comes up as I believe it is the right way forward for eve along with an SP loss mechanic.
My vision is that destroying a pod should be the ultimate killing blow you can inflict upon an opponent. That would also mean that pods would need to be more difficult to kill as in null sec it is far to easy with bubbles. I'd like to see less pods being killed but harsher penalties for when they are killed. |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
1017
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Posted - 2014.11.25 18:31:50 -
[43] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Major Trant wrote:Belatedly after a negative backlash, he knee jerk added that pods should have higher EHP and be bubble immune which would drastically reduce the instances of pod deaths in null and w-space, thus dumbing down the most hardcore areas of the game. Actually you'll find that I proposed pods being bubble immune about a year ago, and have done so whenever this issue comes up as I believe it is the right way forward for eve along with an SP loss mechanic. My vision is that destroying a pod should be the ultimate killing blow you can inflict upon an opponent. That would also mean that pods would need to be more difficult to kill as in null sec it is far to easy with bubbles. I'd like to see less pods being killed but harsher penalties for when they are killed.
Yeah, I agree, and tbh I'm a little surprised at all the negative feedback and/or lack of counter-proposals. I just think that the more you risk, and the more your opponent risks, the more exciting the contest becomes. I guess it's just that my perception of Eve is not quite as popular as I had thought. Most of my close friends are avid gamers, too, and none of them will touch Eve, because it's "too harsh." I take a certain pride in being an Eve player and not a them-park player, or a "die and insta respawn" FPS player. I want blue ribbons for the winners and floggings for the losers. Note that I am often a loser, too.
\m/ O.o \m/
"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13995
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Posted - 2014.11.25 18:44:35 -
[44] - Quote
Your idea just gave me, the guy next to me and the two in the yard over there mind cancer.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
664
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Posted - 2014.11.25 18:44:52 -
[45] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:Major Trant wrote:Belatedly after a negative backlash, he knee jerk added that pods should have higher EHP and be bubble immune which would drastically reduce the instances of pod deaths in null and w-space, thus dumbing down the most hardcore areas of the game. Actually you'll find that I proposed pods being bubble immune about a year ago, and have done so whenever this issue comes up as I believe it is the right way forward for eve along with an SP loss mechanic. My vision is that destroying a pod should be the ultimate killing blow you can inflict upon an opponent. That would also mean that pods would need to be more difficult to kill as in null sec it is far to easy with bubbles. I'd like to see less pods being killed but harsher penalties for when they are killed. Yeah, I agree, and tbh I'm a little surprised at all the negative feedback and/or lack of counter-proposals. I just think that the more you risk, and the more your opponent risks, the more exciting the contest becomes. I guess it's just that my perception of Eve is not quite as popular as I had thought. Most of my close friends are avid gamers, too, and none of them will touch Eve, because it's "too harsh." I take a certain pride in being an Eve player and not a them-park player, or a "die and insta respawn" FPS player. I want blue ribbons for the winners and floggings for the losers. Note that I am often a loser, too.
If you think pod loss should result in a week or more of SP loss + 365 mil isk, you don't pvp where there can be bubbles enough for your opinion to matter.
Harsh but true.
If I lost 10% of one skill every time I got podded, I'd be in a constant downward SP slump.
OH WAIT! THAT'S NOT TRUE!
Because at 375 mil a pod, I wouldn't be pvping. And if I'm not pvping, I'm not playing this game. And that line goes for just about every other PvPr in nullsec.
375 mil for a pod, then losing a 5-6 days? **** that. Nullsec doesn't pay out enough money for that kind of stupidity. No way an individual pilot is going to maintain a PvP hangar, and no chance of any alliance, no matter how rich, being able to tack on 375 mil per SRP for every single hull from frigate up to supercap.
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Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
1018
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Posted - 2014.11.25 18:53:22 -
[46] - Quote
I would agree that 375M is too harsh a cost for a pod death. That said, I just got around to looking in-game, and the most expensive clone upgrade I see is 105M isk, tho I suppose youre accounting for some implants or ship, etc in that 375M figure. I guess rly it's hard to come up with what even I would consider a "fair" downside to getting podded, but I adamantly believe that there SHOULD be some kind of hurt inflicted on you for losing a pod, and more than just the inconvenience of "respawning" far from where your action currently is.
Hell, idk
\m/ O.o \m/
"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
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Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
13657
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Posted - 2014.11.25 19:09:54 -
[47] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Your idea just gave me, the guy next to me and the two in the yard over there mind cancer. Not empty quoting
Bacon makes us stronger
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13998
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Posted - 2014.11.25 19:09:58 -
[48] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:I would agree that 375M is too harsh a cost for a pod death. That said, I just got around to looking in-game, and the most expensive clone upgrade I see is 105M isk, tho I suppose youre accounting for some implants or ship, etc in that 375M figure. I guess rly it's hard to come up with what even I would consider a "fair" downside to getting podded, but I adamantly believe that there SHOULD be some kind of hurt inflicted on you for losing a pod, and more than just the inconvenience of "respawning" far from where your action currently is. Hell, idk
When you lose your pod it means your ship exploded and you lose your implants.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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RoAnnon
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
15952
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Posted - 2014.11.25 19:14:39 -
[49] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:I would agree that 375M is too harsh a cost for a pod death. That said, I just got around to looking in-game, and the most expensive clone upgrade I see is 105M isk, tho I suppose youre accounting for some implants or ship, etc in that 375M figure. I guess rly it's hard to come up with what even I would consider a "fair" downside to getting podded, but I adamantly believe that there SHOULD be some kind of hurt inflicted on you for losing a pod, and more than just the inconvenience of "respawning" far from where your action currently is. Hell, idk When you lose your pod it means your ship exploded and you lose your implants. We're supposed to be these "all-powerful, immortal" capsuleers. I think that's because losing our pod doesn't matter. Why make something matter monetarily when it doesn't really matter at all any way?
So, you're a bounty hunter.
No, that ain't it at all.
Then what are you?
I'm a bounty hunter.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14001
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Posted - 2014.11.25 19:17:57 -
[50] - Quote
RoAnnon wrote:baltec1 wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:I would agree that 375M is too harsh a cost for a pod death. That said, I just got around to looking in-game, and the most expensive clone upgrade I see is 105M isk, tho I suppose youre accounting for some implants or ship, etc in that 375M figure. I guess rly it's hard to come up with what even I would consider a "fair" downside to getting podded, but I adamantly believe that there SHOULD be some kind of hurt inflicted on you for losing a pod, and more than just the inconvenience of "respawning" far from where your action currently is. Hell, idk When you lose your pod it means your ship exploded and you lose your implants. We're supposed to be these "all-powerful, immortal" capsuleers. I think that's because losing our pod doesn't matter. Why make something matter monetarily when it doesn't really matter at all any way?
Its only a lump of meat anyway.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
1022
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Posted - 2014.11.25 20:03:13 -
[51] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:I would agree that 375M is too harsh a cost for a pod death. That said, I just got around to looking in-game, and the most expensive clone upgrade I see is 105M isk, tho I suppose youre accounting for some implants or ship, etc in that 375M figure. I guess rly it's hard to come up with what even I would consider a "fair" downside to getting podded, but I adamantly believe that there SHOULD be some kind of hurt inflicted on you for losing a pod, and more than just the inconvenience of "respawning" far from where your action currently is. Hell, idk When you lose your pod it means your ship exploded and you lose your implants.
Yeah, the implants are a loss, but as for having lost your ship, that's right, you lost it... THEN you got popped AGAIN and lost your body. I mean, other than lore and arguably maybe as implant-holders, whats the point in there even being a pod that ejects after ship destruction? Whats the point in killing it if the negative consequences to losing the fight (which would be losing your ship) has already happened?
Idk, maybe I was a little knee-jerk in asking the OP to come post this idea in F&I (yes, Im the guilty party :D) I just get all hot and bothered any time I see what I take to be signs of Eve "getting softer."
\m/ O.o \m/
"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
640
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Posted - 2014.11.25 20:09:46 -
[52] - Quote
Your idea is terrible, OP.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
781
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Posted - 2014.11.25 20:24:21 -
[53] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:OP wants to replace the terrible clone mechanic we have now with an even more terrible clone mechanic.
OP is literally EA. This. |
Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
209
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Posted - 2014.11.25 22:03:14 -
[54] - Quote
Temporary amnesia is probably the best mechanic for pod loss.
Not permanent loss of sp as such, but a temporary reduction to one or two skills for a few hours after pod loss.
Death needs to have some sort of sting. I don't care what that sting is as long as it hurts.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
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Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
194
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Posted - 2014.11.25 22:10:34 -
[55] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:OP wants to replace the terrible clone mechanic we have now with an even more terrible clone mechanic.
OP is literally EA.
Made me chuckle a little. |
Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
209
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Posted - 2014.11.25 22:20:29 -
[56] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Major Trant wrote:Belatedly after a negative backlash, he knee jerk added that pods should have higher EHP and be bubble immune which would drastically reduce the instances of pod deaths in null and w-space, thus dumbing down the most hardcore areas of the game. Actually you'll find that I proposed pods being bubble immune about a year ago, and have done so whenever this issue comes up as I believe it is the right way forward for eve along with an SP loss mechanic. My vision is that destroying a pod should be the ultimate killing blow you can inflict upon an opponent. That would also mean that pods would need to be more difficult to kill as in null sec it is far to easy with bubbles. I'd like to see less pods being killed but harsher penalties for when they are killed.
I can get behind this.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
782
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Posted - 2014.11.25 22:21:45 -
[57] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:Death needs to have some sort of sting. I don't care what that sting is as long as it hurts. Spend some more time doing PVP and get back to me on that. Loosing a shuttle and pod with four +2 implants does not constitute PVP experience. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
108
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Posted - 2014.11.25 22:25:26 -
[58] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:As requested, this is an idea which I posted in GD. It is a replacement for the removal of medical clones, which everyone agreed is a poor mechanic. But not everyone seems to agree on what should replace it, or whether it should be replaced at all.
I feel Eve definitely needs some consequence for losing ones pods, after all it is meant to be the most crippling blow you can strike upon your foe, and there are stories of pilots in bygone eras having their pods ransomed by pirates. Atm though it is nothing but a free ride home, and many people don't use implants, or very cheap ones if they do.
PODS are ransomed because of the implants in them not the fact they might not be up to date. Currently skill loss is only for those who are absent minded (forgot to upgrade clone) or are so f'ing cheap that they didnt want to upgrade there clone.
Its either isk or skill loss now when a pod dies. you want skill loss and isk every time a pod dies |
Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
209
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Posted - 2014.11.25 22:30:41 -
[59] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Mharius Skjem wrote:Death needs to have some sort of sting. I don't care what that sting is as long as it hurts. Spend some more time doing PVP and get back to me on that. Loosing a shuttle and pod with four +2 implants does not constitute PVP experience.
This is a new toon man. I've been playing since 2007.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
784
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Posted - 2014.11.25 22:38:34 -
[60] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:This is a new toon man. I've been playing since 2007. If you have done much PVP you would know that being ejected from fun content is punishment enough. Loosing your ship and implants can also really hurt depending on what you were flying.
Low consequences for death encourage people to go out and die in pretty explosions. Pretty explosions are fun for everyone. |
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