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Jenshae Chiroptera
596
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Posted - 2014.12.13 04:35:10 -
[61] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:And who will freely grind that sec status for you?
Your alt account and the gang you roll with ... you do have a group or frandz, right? Would think this would be obvious?
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
566
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Posted - 2014.12.13 18:52:24 -
[62] - Quote
Jim Elliot wrote:afkalt wrote:Jim Elliot wrote:Agreed. Post Rhea there are now zero consequences for losing an empty pod. No more clone fees. Not a bad idea to blank out a skill for few hours. Maybe you could even have the choice in the medical bay to shell out a few mil and fix that. Anyone who believes empty clones are 'free' has exactly zero understanding of skill point accumulation. I stopped using implants after the learning skill nerfbat. I have 80m+ SP. It's never held me back.
Thanks for confirming my point. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
596
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Posted - 2014.12.14 02:21:57 -
[63] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Thanks for confirming my point.
Unfortunately, it would betray a friend to citation some really dramatic examples. Again. If you aim at a particular ship then you can get there rather fast. Once you are there your tool is made and the fuel is the cost of a few ships. That is your limit, you can keep using that tool over and over again without penalty to slow you down.
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
Status: Rabid carebear
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2077
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Posted - 2014.12.14 02:35:56 -
[64] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Again. If you aim at a particular ship then you can get there rather fast. That's right.
When I was new and fresh, I fell in love with the Widow and vowed one day I would fly it. Now that ship probably takes longer to get into than any other subcapital. Now, past my four year mark, I still can't fly one because I have spread my skills out, but if I had gone straight for it, I'd have been able to pilot one a long, long time ago. I believe the training time for it is around 3 months, and one of the nice things about Black Ops is that the secondary skills are less important for it because you're not really supposed to take it into combat anyway.
Of course one should never underestimate the usefulness of some of the ships with lower skill requirements. One of my favorite ships to fly (based on experience) is the Cormorant. With t2 rails I can shoot out to 75km on a reasonably well-rounded fit. The skills for what I can push out of it would probably take a few months to train, but you can be competent in one of those within your first week. And until then you can be flying a Merlin.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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Jenshae Chiroptera
596
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Posted - 2014.12.14 02:42:52 -
[65] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote: One of my favorite ships to fly (based on experience) is the Cormorant. .
I have helped design a Corax, (3 days each for training, fresh pilots,) x10 can melt my hurricane in 9 seconds. In that time I can half damage one of them.
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
Status: Rabid carebear
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1398
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Posted - 2014.12.15 16:23:57 -
[66] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote: One of my favorite ships to fly (based on experience) is the Cormorant. . I have helped design a Corax, (3 days each for training, fresh pilots,) x10 can melt my hurricane in 9 seconds. In that time I can half damage one of them.
Many cheap ships > few costly ships.
Working as intended. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2056
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Posted - 2014.12.15 18:27:19 -
[67] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I seem to be laying out a guide on how to do this, which is not my intention but I will still say that using a spare pilot and aiming for a very particular fit, using remaps and implants while you prepare it, you can make an anonymous tool very quickly
Using a blank Gallente pilot and nothing else, you can make a 1.6M ISK thrasher that has a 415 volley and 135 DPS in 14 hours 27 minutes
All the skills to III with no implants and no remaps takes 2 days and 7 hours. 477 volley 159 dmg
Using one remap you are down to 1 day 20 hours
Implants 1 day 11 hours.
Consider what you can do if you just take two weeks. Security? Sit it on grind at range with a ratter running sites.
you mean new players CAN make a difference? This is a problem because??
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2056
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Posted - 2014.12.15 18:36:02 -
[68] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote: One of my favorite ships to fly (based on experience) is the Cormorant. . I have helped design a Corax, (3 days each for training, fresh pilots,) x10 can melt my hurricane in 9 seconds. In that time I can half damage one of them.
wow really
10 you say...10 dps focused ships...against one...one ship that can barely hit a Corax at the best of times.
maybe you should have taken three Caracals...instead.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14233
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Posted - 2014.12.15 18:37:12 -
[69] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote: One of my favorite ships to fly (based on experience) is the Cormorant. . I have helped design a Corax, (3 days each for training, fresh pilots,) x10 can melt my hurricane in 9 seconds. In that time I can half damage one of them. wow really 10 you say...10 dps focused ships...against one...one ship that can barely hit a Corax at the best of times. maybe you should have taken three Caracals...instead.
Or not shitfit your cane.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Jenshae Chiroptera
607
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Posted - 2014.12.15 18:52:55 -
[70] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Or not shitfit your cane.
600 DPS that actually applies isn't a bad fit.
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
Status: Rabid carebear
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2056
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Posted - 2014.12.15 18:56:08 -
[71] - Quote
if you cant kill a corax in 18 seconds, it probably isnt applying.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Jenshae Chiroptera
607
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Posted - 2014.12.15 18:57:16 -
[72] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:if you cant kill a corax in 18 seconds, it probably isnt applying.
You don't know the Corax fit.
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
Status: Rabid carebear
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2056
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Posted - 2014.12.15 19:05:31 -
[73] - Quote
right...but your hurricane isnt applying dps is it?
its not like the corax has 20k ehp
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Jenshae Chiroptera
607
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Posted - 2014.12.15 19:36:28 -
[74] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:right...but your hurricane isnt applying dps is it?
its not like the corax has 20k ehp
Quote:This is a one trick pony. Fast lock, high damage, hit and get out. Turn everything on, sensor booster, hardeners, AB. If you haven't killed your target in a few cycles, warp out and minimise loss 7088K eHP All together this should be 18420 volley with over heated 2544 damage per second.
To give a scale of the damage, my hurricane has a 40K tank with 1404 volley 659 DPS but 147 of that is drones. So you would eat through it in about 9 seconds. I would not get my drones out or apply them well in that time. So, that is 5000 damage or bit over half a Corax in that amount of time. My lock time would also be a lot slower, reducing that further.
Since they use missiles, this is really effective for newbies as they won't need to worry about tracking, optimals and fall offs.
Right....
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
Status: Rabid carebear
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2056
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Posted - 2014.12.15 19:51:46 -
[75] - Quote
so why did you say you had a hurricane that had 600dps that 'actually applies'?
you brought up the corax vs hurricane comparison as if it was supposed to mean something. youve just shown it doesnt mean anything...
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1401
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Posted - 2014.12.15 20:02:39 -
[76] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:baltec1 wrote:Or not shitfit your cane. 600 DPS that actually applies isn't a bad fit. The point you are all de-railing away from is that empty cheap alternative characters can be used to attack others anonymously with absolutely zero repercussions.
Ganging up on people in bigger/more expensive is efficient. News at 11.
WE NEED A PENALTY ON POD LOSSES BECAUSE DESSY CAN BE USED TO KILL LARGER SHIPS FAST.
Hey, you do know pop losses being hard or not changes nothing tot hat right? I can train that dessy alt even if my pod has a higher cost to repalce. I can destroy your cane with corax as often as I want no matter how much ISK/SP/time/tears it cost me to lose a pod on my main. Throwaway ganking alts existed before the pod change. Their limitation are exactly the same as before, you can't biomass them to avoid the sec status losses. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2056
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Posted - 2014.12.15 20:16:02 -
[77] - Quote
there is not zero repercussions. you can still lose your ship and any implants you are fitting. If ppl dont want to take big risks when they PvP they dont have to. The price they pay is the loss in power on their fit or the slower train times. This is not a bad thing, quite the opposite, its one of the best parts of the game where new players can join the game and have fun from day one.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Jenshae Chiroptera
607
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Posted - 2014.12.15 20:51:40 -
[78] - Quote
If skills are greyed out then those suicide gankers will be slowed down if they are pod killed.
It gives you a recourse that has a meaning.
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1404
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Posted - 2014.12.15 20:53:38 -
[79] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:If skills are greyed out then those suicide gankers will be slowed down if they are pod killed.
It gives you a recourse that has a meaning.
Your cane is dead before you can kill 1 corax. How do you expect to kill that pod when flying in a pod or better yet when sitting in a station looking at your free ibis? |
Alundil
Isogen 5
789
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Posted - 2014.12.15 22:07:43 -
[80] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Losing a ship is enough of a consequence for losing a ship. Alliance SRPs you and you click a few times to pick up a contract or get the bits from the market. Many of us already have many of the same ship ready to re-ship. Most alliances/corporations do NOT offer SRP. You basing this terribru idea on the assumption that people get ships replaced "for free" is almost as bad as the idea itself.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:FT Diomedes wrote: Losing implants is enough of a consequence for losing a pod. Jump clone to a blank PVP clone. So you have lost a ship? Not like you paid for it. You lost a clone? Doesn't matter, was empty anyway. Consequences? Oh look. ZERO! Again - ship and module costs are not replaced for the vast majority of players in EVE. Furthermore, in scenarios where an active hostile engagement is taking place, losing a ship+pod is almost a guarantee in the land of bubbles (00 and wspace) causing an immediate trip back to the "home" station which is hopefully close enough to the fight to reship and get back to it. Your proposal would tack on an extra penalty to getting helplessly podded in a bubble meaning that not only are pilots out of the ship+mods, pod+implants but also potentially the skill required to rejoin the fight.
Honestly, there's a place for things like this
I'm right behind you
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Alundil
Isogen 5
789
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Posted - 2014.12.15 22:10:54 -
[81] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote: I heard some people were not under full SRP all the time. I guess those have risk but you don't care so they don't count right...
Most pod kills are done where bubbles can be deployed, null sec and WHs. If you aren't in an SRP alliance there then get out. Wow - I guess it's really too late for this
I'm right behind you
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2057
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Posted - 2014.12.16 01:52:00 -
[82] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:If skills are greyed out then those suicide gankers will be slowed down if they are pod killed.
It gives you a recourse that has a meaning.
so does perma-death...
right now we have a recourse that has meaning, you just dont like how players can chose how much power/loss they get.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Jenshae Chiroptera
608
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Posted - 2014.12.16 03:27:26 -
[83] - Quote
Alundil wrote:... causing an immediate trip back to the "home" station which ...
Going to humour you on this one.
1) One home station 2) Reform reinforcements - group up. 3) Interceptors 4) Nullified T3s 5) Cynos in nearby systems 6) Black Ops and bomber wings.
Griefing. 1) One home station, close to target system. 2) "AFK" cloakers with tacticals to tell you what their feeble fighting back is. 3) Many ships ready. 4) Alternate accounts - one account gets security status with a buddy. 5) Alternate pilots. 6) Kill and kill and kill. 7) Biomass the alts if you like when you are done. 8) Do not worry. - They don't even understand why and will never figure out who.
or ....
Pilot Concord blows you up and they counter suicide kill your pods. Change pilots. Happened again. .... Oh no! The killing only lasted an hour and they have 22.5 hours to play to their heart's content before you can send your waves at them again.
Now if it were a main character .... shucks, I can't shoot with my small auto cannons, never mind, I will use small artillary, oh can't use that, hang on time for rockets, mmmm next up mediums ...
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
Status: Rabid carebear
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14238
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Posted - 2014.12.16 05:13:21 -
[84] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Now if it were a main character .... shucks, I can't shoot with my small auto cannons, never mind, I will use small artillary, oh can't use that, hang on time for rockets, mmmm next up mediums ...
This just highlights just how daft this idea is. Forcing people who pvp into downtime is not a good gameplay choice.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
569
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Posted - 2014.12.16 08:06:12 -
[85] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Now if it were a main character .... shucks, I can't shoot with my small auto cannons, never mind, I will use small artillary, oh can't use that, hang on time for rockets, mmmm next up mediums ...
This just highlights just how daft this idea is. Forcing people who pvp into downtime is not a good gameplay choice.
Has anyone who cried about suicide ganking (which is what this is, a nerf ganker thread in bad drag) came up with a good idea, ever? |
Alundil
Isogen 5
791
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:44:50 -
[86] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Alundil wrote:... causing an immediate trip back to the "home" station which ... Going to humour you on this one. 1) One home station 2) Reform reinforcements - group up. 3) Interceptors 4) Nullified T3s 5) Cynos in nearby systems 6) Black Ops and bomber wings. Griefing. 1) One home station, close to target system. 2) "AFK" cloakers with tacticals to tell you what their feeble fighting back is. 3) Many ships ready. 4) Alternate accounts - one account gets security status with a buddy. 5) Alternate pilots. 6) Kill and kill and kill. 7) Biomass the alts if you like when you are done. 8) Do not worry. - They don't even understand why and will never figure out who. or .... Pilot Concord blows you up and they counter suicide kill your pods. Change pilots. Happened again. .... Oh no! The killing only lasted an hour and they have 22.5 hours to play to their heart's content before you can send your waves at them again. Now if it were a main character .... shucks, I can't shoot with my small auto cannons, never mind, I will use small artillary, oh can't use that, hang on time for rockets, mmmm next up mediums ... You grabbed part of a sentence out of the larger point to "humor me" and STILL managed to make it a nonsensical mess. Your numbered list has very little relation to the point that I brought up (or you're so deep in the weeds that you no longer know what your argument actually is). Do you have any idea what you're even typing there? Are you secretly KoKo the typing Gorilla? lol
I'm right behind you
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1409
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Posted - 2014.12.16 17:21:26 -
[87] - Quote
afkalt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Now if it were a main character .... shucks, I can't shoot with my small auto cannons, never mind, I will use small artillary, oh can't use that, hang on time for rockets, mmmm next up mediums ...
This just highlights just how daft this idea is. Forcing people who pvp into downtime is not a good gameplay choice. Has anyone who cried about suicide ganking (which is what this is, a nerf ganker thread in bad drag) came up with a good idea, ever?
Some of them suggesting leaving which wasn't half bad of an idea in their case. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
609
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Posted - 2014.12.17 00:26:07 -
[88] - Quote
Great. Noticing a lot of entirely free pods being used as scouts now. Hit a camp and die, nvm, everyone turn back.
I think the best thing though is for CCP to look at who is opposed to this idea. It is probably the strongest indicator that it should be implemented.
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
Status: Rabid carebear
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
571
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Posted - 2014.12.17 00:27:25 -
[89] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Nice. Noticing a lot of entirely free pods being used as scouts now. Hit a camp and die, nvm, everyone turn back.
Because that's different from the alt in an old school alpha clone I had how.......?
Oh yeah, it's not. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
609
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Posted - 2014.12.17 00:44:32 -
[90] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Great. Noticing a lot of entirely free pods being used as scouts now. Hit a camp and die, nvm, everyone turn back. I think the best thing though is for CCP to look at who is opposed to this idea. It is probably the strongest indicator that it should be implemented Because that's different from the alt in an old school alpha clone I had how.......? Oh yeah, it's not.
Difference being:
"Hey guys, hang on a sec, I will just dock up, move homes and check ahead for us. Oh I died. Well look at this kill mail. Yup, no problem we can handle them. Let me just hop in my ship now."
Any pod can do it now.
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
Status: Rabid carebear
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