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Ray Leonard
The Guardian Knights AXIOS.
0
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Posted - 2014.11.27 16:23:53 -
[1] - Quote
I am hoping this suggestion will help offer new opportunities for all players. Both miners and PVPers alike. Miners by offering a wider variety of fleet mining opportunities, and PVPers by giving them more giant flying pinatas to take swings at.
As it stands right now the Rorqual and the Orca are the only ships which have bonuses for mining foreman mind links. This is fairly restrictive for how mining fleets can operate. It also leaves no real entry level way in to operating mining fleets. It might be nice to see a medium sized "command ship" for mining. However at present that would be difficult as it would be overpowered. To compensate and make it more feasible I would like to recommend a change to mining foreman links themselves.
At present there is only one set of three mining foreman links which affect all mining lasers, strip miners, ice harvesters, and gas harvesters. I would recommend splitting them into specialized categories for each. In this way more specialized mining command ships would be possible. We could still retain an omni boosting set for the Rorqual and Orca, but if we had for example a set specialized for standard mining lasers that did not affect strip miners or a set specialized for gas harvesters we could use them to create a medium sized industrial command ship that could better keep pace with the venture and prospect.
Could mix things up a bit. Might even catch them going around in low sec, 0.0, and WH space given how much more disposable they would be than their capital counterparts. Especially if they get the gas harvesting. |
Foxicity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
19
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Posted - 2014.11.27 16:43:08 -
[2] - Quote
How exactly would your proposed ships be different from a T1 battlecruiser with 3 links and 2 command modules? If you don't like a T1 battlecruiser fitting into a mining fleet simply because it has to 'sit there' or 'be off ratting', how would your special command ship fit in better and what other exciting things would it do? Triple-linked T1 BCs are already highly nerfed so they already fit your requirement for 'weak offensive abilities' and 'moderate defenses'. I fail to see what extra functionality you could add with a special command ship that wouldn't be, as you say, overpowered. |
Ray Leonard
The Guardian Knights AXIOS.
0
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Posted - 2014.11.27 18:33:42 -
[3] - Quote
For one it would have bonuses for the specialized links making it more effective at fleet boosting for mining. Secondly it could be given an ore hold to help compensate for the increased mining rate. If it got the gas harvesting links for example it could nearly double the harvesting speed so by having say 2O-40km3 ore hold it can help 2-4 ventures/prospects still stay out for the full hour that an unboosted one would. That would not only make the mining much more effective for the small ship mining gang, but make them a jucier target that stays out and active longer. Wouldn't you like to happen upon a group of say... 3-5 ships with minimal offence/devence loaded down with between 80km3 of material?
All other mind links have a medium sized ship with bonuses for them why not mining? It would be overpowered if it had links for strip miners and ice harvesters because they would be all over high sec, but links for standard mining lasers and gas harvesters would make it a good entry level mining command ship and encourage more adventurous mining operations since it would be better suited for "ninja mining" and gas harvesting.
The primary benefit would be that it would be a specialized mining command ship for small gang small ship mining. Battle cruisers are not specialized. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2005
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Posted - 2014.11.27 18:49:43 -
[4] - Quote
you say your worried about a medium sized command ship being over powered, but this would be perfectly remedied by having a drake with a few links and command processors. that is essentially an entry level mining booster and it can dabble in dangerous space.
then have one of your gang fly a miasmos to play the hauler. This shouldnt be much issue because your gang must be pretty big to warrant a low level booster, so one thing you'll have plenty of is extra bodies.
An alternative is to give dessies links and then they can do this job as well as a BC whilst being much more nimble.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Ray Leonard
The Guardian Knights AXIOS.
0
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Posted - 2014.11.27 18:58:36 -
[5] - Quote
You misunderstand... It would be overpowered IF it had bonuses to mining links that boost strip miners and ice harvesters. But flying g a ship without link bonuses is underpowered for supporting ventures and prospects while an orca or rorqual would be overkill for such a gang. Specialized links for standard lasers and gas harvesters and a specialized small gang mining command ship with bonuses to those links would fill that role nicely.
Yes you could run the Drake... But you might as well just take another prospect instead. |
Selaria Unbertable
POS Mortem Renegades Of Silence
45
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Posted - 2014.11.27 19:15:14 -
[6] - Quote
The problem with your suggestion is to create a ship that is both below the Orca in size while still providing enough benefit to make it worthwhile flying. And I think that is the biggest problem. A fully tanked Orca has a total cargohold of about 110k m-¦, with 50k for ore, and around 27k cargo hold and 40k corp hangar. Plus 400k m-¦ ship maintenance bay. On the other hand, we have the Miasmos, with about 60k m-¦ for ore, which is quite a good hauler, if you have enough pilots and can afford to use one for hauling, if you don't want to do that with your Orca.
So your proposed medium sized mining booster would have to be between those two in order to be viable. And I don't see a way it could be. You would need the same leadership skills you already need for an orca to use links, and you would probably need Ore Industrial as a requirement to fly it. Add a few more days, and your pilot can sit in an Orca, providing all the benefits you suggest, while being quite versatile even outside its intended role.
Furthermore, I don't see a reason to split the mining links into specialized versions. There would be no use for the current ones, assuming the specialized ones are better. Just pack a mobile depot, carry all links you need and refit. Why would I use the current ones, if the specialized links you suggest are better? |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2006
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Posted - 2014.11.27 19:36:42 -
[7] - Quote
unless you already have 5 - 10 prospects.
you might not want to admit it, but an unbonused booster command ship still adds considerable benefits for a mining gang. its just not PERFECT.
What youre saying is its 'balanced' by pigeon holing it to prospects and ventures. But thats more like cherry picking the perfect booster for what you want. it doesnt really affect the power of the ship as its still the obvious choice with little to no compromise.
Instead if you want a booster for dangerous space, talk actual compromise. Like:
A) Advanced level not entry level B) doesnt haul very well C) does not provide bonuses links
Then give it similar abilities to the ship its designed to work with. Small, fast, warp core str and/or maybe even covert cloaks. What youve got there is a ship that clearly has the ability to boost in hostile territory but doesnt compete in safe areas.
oh wait its a T3 booster...
yeah entry level boosting AND boosting in dangerous space are already covered lol.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
486
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Posted - 2014.11.27 19:51:41 -
[8] - Quote
Ray Leonard wrote:You misunderstand... It would be overpowered IF it had bonuses to mining links that boost strip miners and ice harvesters. But flying g a ship without link bonuses is underpowered for supporting ventures and prospects while an orca or rorqual would be overkill for such a gang. Specialized links for standard lasers and gas harvesters and a specialized small gang mining command ship with bonuses to those links would fill that role nicely.
Yes you could run the Drake... But you might as well just take another prospect instead.
No, you misunderstand. A Ferox with a tech2 laser optimization link gives +18.75% yield. How much more do you need?
signature
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Ray Leonard
The Guardian Knights AXIOS.
0
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Posted - 2014.11.27 22:54:25 -
[9] - Quote
I misunderstand? Let me correct you... The laser optimization cuts the DURATION of mining equipment. It does not increase yield. Furthermore an Orca or Rorqual nearly cuts the duration in half. That Ferox does not even compare.
Naturally I wouldn't argue for giving a medium ship such a powerful bonus to strip miners or ice harvesters, but giving it that bonus for standard mining turrets and Gas harvesters which the Orca and Rorqual are overkill for I could see being done. Unless you want to go sending your rorqual into a worm hole to support a hand full of tiny ventures and prospects? Capital ships are overkill for supporting mining frigates, and battle cruisers aren't worth using. If you have 6 or less miners you are literally better off just having another prospect. You get more like Orca or Rorqual grade buffs and you can use as few as 3 miners and justify having one hanging back giving buffs. |
Ray Leonard
The Guardian Knights AXIOS.
0
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Posted - 2014.11.28 00:09:17 -
[10] - Quote
Honestly my suggestion is not even really about the ship idea... look at the title... My suggestion was to split mining foreman mindlinks iinto more specialized links to open up a greater more opportunities for future changes. Different types of mining call for different tactics to be employed and the Orca/Rorqual does not cover them all. Battle cruisers are usable as a start, but it is always good to have a more specialized ship to move into from there. The game has room for a specialized medium mining command ship. Especially given the venture and prospect which frankly you would not want to pair with an orca or rorqual, but would want a dedicated mining command ship suitable for supporting them that can keep up with them and exhibit similar qualies such as low mass for wormhole travel, more speed to keep up with the smaller mining frigates.
The argument against it I am getting is pretty much "you have the BCs already so why do you need a specialized ship for this?". My rebuttal to this argument is you already had the drifter so what did they add the Wolf for? |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2008
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Posted - 2014.11.28 07:47:19 -
[11] - Quote
I dislike the idea of specialising into gas harvesters and mining lasers alone. especially when its used to justify making something overpowered. this kind of cherry picking does not create an 'interesting choice' between boosters/links/implants, it instead makes a 'one trick pony'.
i fear a ninja booster that also gets bonused links detracts from the orca and rorq too much. Id hope there would be clear benefits from getting or building such ships in dangerous space, and this is also why i think it shouldn't haul too well either.
an advanced booster thats able to move around hostile space is not a bad idea, its just when i think of it i come out with something that already exists in a T3 booster. Maybe something that gets 1-2% bonus, and maybe holds enough ore for a couple minutes whilst the real hauler is dropping things off somewhere safe. But thats the very upper end of what id like to see.
battle cruisers are worth using if you cant fly anything better, hence why they make a good entry level booster. and how is having to have 6 prospects before boosts become beneficial a problem? You also dont HAVE to have a booster for every mining gang ever. check your entitlement.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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