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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
afkboss
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
48
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Posted - 2014.11.28 01:44:43 -
[61] - Quote
Can you please look at the damage the Revelation does.
When i'm in siege beside a Naglfar I have to fit 5 cap modules to stay at jump cap and that is doing less DPS and non selectable damage. |
Skyler Hawk
The Scope Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2014.11.28 01:46:19 -
[62] - Quote
why are people acting like losing a whole 2% of optimal range on pulses with scorch is something to get worked up about
it is 2%
if it bothers you that much get a 3% optimal range hardwiring or something, idk |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
196
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Posted - 2014.11.28 01:50:08 -
[63] - Quote
Skyler Hawk wrote:why are people acting like losing a whole 2% of optimal range on pulses with scorch is something to get worked up about
it is 2%
if it bothers you that much get a 3% optimal range hardwiring or something, idk
I don't think that everyone here is really worked up over the changes to pulses and scorch itself, it's just that a few of us feel like there are probably more important things to balance right now. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
617
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Posted - 2014.11.28 02:00:34 -
[64] - Quote
So that's a thing that CCP is doing... any word of nerfing the Ishtar or buffing medium autocannons already? I want to fly Minmatar, it's been ages! I had to switch over to mostly Caldari since even missiles are more viable than the Vagabond or a Muninn
DR BiCarbonate wrote:Cool, a pretty much useless nerf. Now Fix medium autocannons. we've been living with the tracking enhancer nerf for quite some time now.
And, to be clear on this point, the tracking enhancer nerf has completely ****** over autocannons. I fit a Cynabal with artillery. Felt dirty afterward.
Selectable damage type is rarely used to any effect, since if you're changing your ammo in the middle of a fight to hit a resist hole you're probably doing it wrong since there's a 10 second delay where you're doing no damage whatsoever, and you'd be better off with whatever ammo was already loaded.
Lady Rohk wrote: So now a rev with 3x tracking computers (cause what else are you gonna fit the mids with) now hits 40km optimal and 86km total range?
Um... two cap boosters? Like everyone else?
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Aralieus
The Inf1dels
225
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Posted - 2014.11.28 02:17:38 -
[65] - Quote
Scorch seems overpowered because the other crystals suck and don't offer much advantages over our purple overlord. Why not give the other ammo some unique bonus like +x% tracking. Idk but it's usually never a good thing to nerf one thing because others in that group are lacking. In other words raise the performance of other crystals instead of hitting scorch with the nerf bat.
Oderint Dum Metuant
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Naoru Kozan
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
84
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Posted - 2014.11.28 02:47:10 -
[66] - Quote
Don't suppose you guys could take a quick look at Medium Autocannons? They are kind of bad atm. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
409
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Posted - 2014.11.28 02:48:46 -
[67] - Quote
Zomgnomnom wrote:Swing and a miss....
How about making the other Crystals worth using, adjusting tracking, or cap usage or yah know, any of the actual problems with pulse lasers? What I would really like to see is a 50% tracking buff to close range t2 ammo like conflag and void. |
Terraniel Aurelius
High Flyers The Kadeshi
9
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Posted - 2014.11.28 03:15:25 -
[68] - Quote
Current T1 laser crystals can be used for 2 things in pulse lasers:
Multifrequency - damage Everything else - rainbow light show
Scorch is used more relative to everything else because everything else is useless. Does it need a nerf? Only if you want us to use it as much as we use ultraviolet. Which is 0. Buff the rest of the t1 crystal range's damage or this is just a nerf to an already underutilized weapon system. |
MirrorGod
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
39
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Posted - 2014.11.28 03:31:07 -
[69] - Quote
Consider that perhaps 4 sets of crystals is enough, (hell sometimes Imperial Standard and Standard crystals are needed to, 1/m3 per unit stacks up fast)
2% is the most scorch needs to be nerfed by. Laserboats are one thing that are fairly well balanced right now. Look at the ishtar swarms; that's the HAC you're looking for m8.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6070/6122338654_85e9bbfca9_z.jpg
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Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
211
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Posted - 2014.11.28 05:07:43 -
[70] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Harvey James wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:5% and 2%? that's really underwhelming. do bigger things please. you should be tring to make scorch/null/barrage into being like javelin or something, and making the guns usable with proper ammos. t2 ammo should be a niche thing imo. javelin is pretty useless ammo as are all the T2 short range ammo on long range guns.. no, javelin is a nice example of T2 ammo done well. it's not a game-breaking replacement like scorch or null, it's an occasionally useful thing you carry around for when you really need more tracking.
And that's why nobody uses it.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5576
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Posted - 2014.11.28 05:12:33 -
[71] - Quote
As a proponent of tweaking with a jeweller's screwdriver rather than a sledgehammer, i will be interested to see how this pans out. A nice little almpst-nothing tweak to scorch, while subtly boosting all the other crystals.
At some point nerfing Scorch range would result in Scorch never being used. There needs to be some value in using scorch, though with enough buffing to other crystals it should end up being the case that faction crystals end up being almost as good for less ISK.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Luscius Uta
115
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Posted - 2014.11.28 07:28:51 -
[72] - Quote
Not liking the changes since Conflagration is still bad, mostly due to its tracking penalty.
Highsec sucks.
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill A Nest of Vipers
105
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Posted - 2014.11.28 07:38:21 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone.
We're making some tweaks to Pulse Lasers of all sizes in Rhea, as well as Scorch ammo.
Thx fo post CCP Fozzie, but don't u Guys feel that lasers need a little more love? This is hardly a nerf to scorch and hardly a buff to non-scorch lasers. Pulse lasers are a medium range weapon, but the the medium range combat is a rare sight in EVE nowdays.
Ps. the -10 % cap use bonus and lasers cap usage shoud be adressed ASAP - that would simplify future update of laser boats and their hull bonuses... |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1905
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Posted - 2014.11.28 09:44:44 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We're making some tweaks to Pulse Lasers of all sizes in Rhea, as well as Scorch ammo. At the moment Pulse Lasers are quite reliant on T2 Scorch ammo to be viable and powerful. The main goal of these changes is to reduce the reliance on Scorch for Pulse Lasers, making other ammo types a bit more useful. Secondary goals are improving the balance between different tiers of Pulse Lasers and improving the quality of Capital Pulse Lasers a bit. The basics of the change are: - The base optimal range of all Pulse Lasers is being increased by 5%.
- The falloff range of all Pulse Lasers is being increased.
- The optimal range bonus provided by Scorch ammo is being reduced from 50% to 40%.
The result is that optimal range for Pulses without Scorch will be increasing 5%, and optimal range for Pulses with Scorch will be decreasing by 2%. The percentage increase in falloff is different between the different sizes of Pulses, which helps even out the power levels of the different Pulse laser tiers slightly. Falloff increase per Pulse type is: Small Focused Pulses, Heavy Pulses, Mega Pulses: +25% Dual Light Pulses, Focused Medium Pulses, Dual Heavy Pulses: +33.3% Gatling Pulses, Giga Pulses: +100% These changes are on SISI for your testing pleasure, feel free to give them a try and let us know what you think!
Sorry Fozie but Yet again you guys are homogenizing the weapons. Now lasers lose one of their disadvantages.. same as blasters that lost their every short range. Will you be fair and take the issue of AC having effective zero RANGE?
Or you make all weapons effectively the same, or stop that and keep them different very different boostign them in their STRONG points when needed.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1905
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Posted - 2014.11.28 09:45:47 -
[75] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Not liking the changes since Conflagration is still bad, mostly due to its tracking penalty.
It is the same for all short range t2 ammos. Yet they are very useful when you are fighting ships larger than you.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill A Nest of Vipers
105
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Posted - 2014.11.28 09:50:27 -
[76] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:Not liking the changes since Conflagration is still bad, mostly due to its tracking penalty. It is the same for all short range t2 ammos. Yet they are very useful when you are fighting ships larger than you.
And you know webs & stuff ;)
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
892
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Posted - 2014.11.28 11:02:20 -
[77] - Quote
conflagration is one of the most powerful t2 ammos, since you barely have to think, and it has the prettiest colour. |
Akemon Numon
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.11.28 11:23:59 -
[78] - Quote
Zomgnomnom wrote:Swing and a miss....
How about making the other Crystals worth using, adjusting tracking, or cap usage or yah know, any of the actual problems with pulse lasers?
^ Yes this. |
Luscius Uta
115
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Posted - 2014.11.28 11:48:23 -
[79] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:Not liking the changes since Conflagration is still bad, mostly due to its tracking penalty. It is the same for all short range t2 ammos. Yet they are very useful when you are fighting ships larger than you.
I know that Hail and Void also have a 25% tracking penalty, thank you very much But pulse lasers also have much worse tracking than blasters and autocannons, so adding another tracking penalty on top of that is a bit too much I think. Also I reckon it's one of the reasons why nobody uses Punishers for frig PvP anymore
Highsec sucks.
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Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
307
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Posted - 2014.11.28 14:15:57 -
[80] - Quote
Nvm |
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Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
307
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Posted - 2014.11.28 14:26:05 -
[81] - Quote
Skyler Hawk wrote:why are people acting like losing a whole 2% of optimal range on pulses with scorch is something to get worked up about
it is 2%
if it bothers you that much get a 3% optimal range hardwiring or something, idk
It's not about the 2%, it's about setting precedent. It's about CCP saying "even if X wouldn't merit a nerf, we are going to nerf it so you use the other things that are useless and cannot be bothered to adequately tweak". Also because if this change doesn't seem to have enough effect, then it's sure to be followed by MORE undeserved nerfs.
So I say no thanks. |
Cartheron Crust
Matari Exodus
152
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Posted - 2014.11.28 16:01:51 -
[82] - Quote
Hahaha seriously wtf?!
Much change.
So balance.
Very dev.
:2percent:
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Anthar Thebess
811
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Posted - 2014.11.28 16:48:39 -
[83] - Quote
DPS on Revelation also need some boosting. |
Vibrance Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
0
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Posted - 2014.11.28 16:56:20 -
[84] - Quote
The problem is not in scorch, or pulses.
The problem is in the ammo penalties.
Autocannons: optimal is insignificant so the range penalties/bonuses of T1 ammo is irrelevant T2 ammo gives a boost of ~50% range over the "standard" range
Blasters: optimal is important, but a large part of the range comes from falloff so the range penalties/bonuses of T1 ammo don't matter very much T2 ammo boosts falloff, and returns the lost optimal, its a 40% bonus over the "unmodified" range of the guns, but a larger bonus considering anti-matter as the "standard" since the optimal is not insignificant
Pulse: optimal is very important, so the range penalties/bonuses of T1 ammo very much matter
Scorch ammo gives a boost of 50% optimal range over the "unmodified" range, but considering multifrequency to be "standard" its actually more like 3x
If you look at the stats of the guns themselves, which is probably how the balance started, they seem fine. But lasers lose massive range when going for high damage ammo, whereas blasters lose only a little, and autos almost nothing. Further diverging from the stats unmodified by ammo, the already high tracking autos get tracking boosts (no other T1 ammo gives tracking boosts) The T1 ammo is defective, not the T2 scorch. On top of this, is the TE/TC which boosts the effective range of autos and blasters far more than it does for lasers.
If high damage T1 ammo has an optimal penalty, but no falloff penalty for projectiles, then high damage T1 laser crystals should have a falloff penalty, but no optimal penalty. Hyrbids should have a split optimal/faloff penalty, just like the T2 ammo has a split optimal/falloff boost.
Scorch is not OPd. Either the other T1 ammos are OPd, or the T1 crystals and under powered.
This boosts T1 crystals a little, while leaving scorch mostly alone.... I'd still like to see a complete overhaul of optimal vs fallof vs tracking modifiers. Then base the guns on that, or make it so all the ammo sleections have similar relative effects to the unmodified stats.
Scorch was fine, not whining about the changes. Am whining about the focus wasted on this instead of other things
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God's Apples
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
500
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Posted - 2014.11.28 17:03:30 -
[85] - Quote
The different crystals not being used in short range lasers isn't a problem specific to lasers. Nobody ever carries plutonium or lead in blaster boats or uranium or proton in AC boats (with the exception of titanium sabot because that is actually useful for its tracking bonus). T1 crystals and hybrid ammo do use less cap towards the middle ranges, and more cap at the extreme ranges. e.g. Standard and lead are the most cap efficient t1 laser and hybrid ammos respectively, while antimatter/multi and iron/radio are the most cap intensive (not entirely true but the point still stands).
The reason nobody uses t1 ammo besides the highest damage one is because t2 long range ammo gives the same range as the longest range t1 ammo while doing the same damage as the mid range t1 ammo. There's really no way to compete. Long ranged weapons are more balanced in this sense because long range t2 ammo has an actual drawback and because they actually have the range to utilize the minute differences in range that the t1 ammos offer.
So what does this mean for balance? Well first there are too many damn t1 ammos. Even in my beam phantasm, where I'm constantly switching between multi, xray, standard, infrared, and aurora to suit the range I'm at, I'm still not carrying half of all the varieties of t1 ammo. If you want to give meaningful advantages to different t1 ammos, a good place to start would be cutting the absurd number of them down.
"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
229
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Posted - 2014.11.28 17:04:56 -
[86] - Quote
Scorch is quite bad as is, because it mostly does EM damage, other weapon systems do more thermal kinetic explosive damage which is way better than only EM.
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
18061
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Posted - 2014.11.28 17:16:15 -
[87] - Quote
Fozzie, show us on the ship doll where the ebil Zealot touched your alt....
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7135
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Posted - 2014.11.28 18:47:08 -
[88] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Fozzie, show us on the ship doll where the ebil Zealot touched your alt....
i would guess
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
541
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Posted - 2014.11.28 18:49:49 -
[89] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:The different crystals not being used in short range lasers isn't a problem specific to lasers. Nobody ever carries plutonium or lead in blaster boats or uranium or proton in AC boats (with the exception of titanium sabot because that is actually useful for its tracking bonus). T1 crystals and hybrid ammo do use less cap towards the middle ranges, and more cap at the extreme ranges. e.g. Standard and lead are the most cap efficient t1 laser and hybrid ammos respectively, while antimatter/multi and iron/radio are the most cap intensive (not entirely true but the point still stands).
The reason nobody uses t1 ammo besides the highest damage one is because t2 long range ammo gives the same range as the longest range t1 ammo while doing the same damage as the mid range t1 ammo. There's really no way to compete. Long ranged weapons are more balanced in this sense because long range t2 ammo has an actual drawback and because they actually have the range to utilize the minute differences in range that the t1 ammos offer.
So what does this mean for balance? Well first there are too many damn t1 ammos. Even in my beam phantasm, where I'm constantly switching between multi, xray, standard, infrared, and aurora to suit the range I'm at, I'm still not carrying half of all the varieties of t1 ammo. If you want to give meaningful advantages to different t1 ammos, a good place to start would be cutting the absurd number of them down.
This fine gentleman gets it. |
Anthar Thebess
811
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Posted - 2014.11.28 21:59:40 -
[90] - Quote
Put also some love to ammo. Why Sansha or Blood crystals are worst than imperial navy in all aspects? Make them the same or at least different. |
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