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aSacHorYu
the muppets
1
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Posted - 2014.11.28 16:03:57 -
[1] - Quote
[15:41:49] Luukje > hey [15:41:52] aSacHorYu > hi [15:41:59] Luukje > we can let you go for 2 bil ransom [15:42:02] Luukje > we do this for profit [15:42:36] aSacHorYu > well i was a pirate so i hope you honnor ransoms [15:42:45] Luukje > ofc [15:42:48] Luukje > its for profit [15:42:51] aSacHorYu > who do i send the cash? [15:42:52] Luukje > killmails we get enough for ppl who dont pay [15:42:56] Luukje > me is fine [15:43:22] aSacHorYu > sent [15:44:02] aSacHorYu > wel i guess you dont honnor ransoms ;( [15:44:09] aSacHorYu > too bad tougth [15:44:18] Luukje > hmm :( [15:44:30] Luukje > we lost a sin killing you lol [15:44:58] aSacHorYu > .. [15:45:16] aSacHorYu > if that is your escuse that is fine [15:48:44] Luukje > sorry for ur loss man :) hope you recover fast [15:50:03] aSacHorYu > i will just dont pretend to be pirates and honor ransoms mate you are doing any good to the pirate comunnity [15:50:14] aSacHorYu > *arent [15:50:18] aSacHorYu > just saying
https://zkillboard.com/kill/42692951/
Take care and fly dangerously. |
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
820
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Posted - 2014.11.28 16:14:37 -
[2] - Quote
Space honor is rare these days. Hire Mercs for revenge
"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."
U-MAD Membership Recruitment
PoH Corporation Recruitment
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aSacHorYu
the muppets
2
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Posted - 2014.11.28 16:18:22 -
[3] - Quote
Zeus Maximo wrote:Space honor is rare these days. Hire Mercs for revenge
Nah just Posting it here so that people know , they dont honor ransoms .
Agree space honor is indeed rare. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
332
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 16:50:01 -
[4] - Quote
This is just another example of why there needs to be a pirate code of conduct, so that pirates who do honor ransoms can join some large organization with other people committed to honesty and good faith. This will make piracy profitable again, instead of just a tearfest. |
Kev Ftw
The Filthy Few Break-A-Wish Foundation
45
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Posted - 2014.11.28 17:08:41 -
[5] - Quote
They'd be more like guidelines. |
Cannibal Kane
Umkhonto we Sizwe
4447
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Posted - 2014.11.28 17:09:35 -
[6] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:This is just another example of why there needs to be a pirate code of conduct, so that pirates who do honor ransoms can join some large organization with other people committed to honesty and good faith. This will make piracy profitable again, instead of just a tearfest.
I honor ransoms...
And I will never join a group like that. Just the thought of joining a large org with other people committed to honesty and good faith is a contradiction in terms next to the word Pirate.
Stop it Veers. Your trolling is really starting to get a bit much now.
I still make isk from this and those same people are people that use me in turn for other things. You don't need some large org to label you. Sounds so mainstream.
"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
332
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Posted - 2014.11.28 17:23:07 -
[7] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:This is just another example of why there needs to be a pirate code of conduct, so that pirates who do honor ransoms can join some large organization with other people committed to honesty and good faith. This will make piracy profitable again, instead of just a tearfest. I honor ransoms... And I will never join a group like that. Just the thought of joining a large org with other people committed to honesty and good faith is a contradiction in terms next to the word Pirate. Stop it Veers. Your trolling is really starting to get a bit much now. I still make isk from this and those same people are people that use me in turn for other things. You don't need some large org to label you. Sounds so mainstream.
That's because you are famous. People know they can pay you and you will honor ransoms. But how can a new pirate assure the same thing without a years long track record? I mean it's great that the system works for you, but how would you get it to work for other people? Accusing me of trolling isn't actually a solution....if you would like I can demonstrate to you why knowing that ransoms will be honored is game theory optimal for both pirates and prey. |
Cannibal Kane
Umkhonto we Sizwe
4447
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Posted - 2014.11.28 17:57:57 -
[8] - Quote
The issue is time...
Sitting in the middle of space deciding if I need to blow up or pay is a second decision.
Putting anything in place will be counter productive. Unless there is a system in place where I can put default values on ships (100mil ransom for a Rokh for example) and the target that is scrammed (if he is flying a Rokh) selects pay where the 100mil isk is stored in escrow to be paid when the limited engagement timer between the 2 or party ends.
If a killmail is generated in that time isk goes back from escrow to target. If there is no killmail isk goes to the predator.
This guarantees a target gets paid. but you will prolly have people giving pirates a bad name another reason to cry.
On the trolling side though. Have you seen your reply to threads recently?
"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
332
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Posted - 2014.11.28 18:16:10 -
[9] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:The issue is time...
Sitting in the middle of space deciding if I need to blow up or pay is a second decision.
Putting anything in place will be counter productive. Unless there is a system in place where I can put default values on ships (100mil ransom for a Rokh for example) and the target that is scrammed (if he is flying a Rokh) selects pay where the 100mil isk is stored in escrow to be paid when the limited engagement timer between the 2 or party ends.
If a killmail is generated in that time isk goes back from escrow to target. If there is no killmail isk goes to the predator.
This guarantees a target gets paid. but you will prolly have people giving pirates a bad name another reason to cry.
On the trolling side though. Have you seen your reply to threads recently?
Ok, by popular demand, I will give the economics a go. As far as "trolling," I absolutely honestly believe the things I right. The Grrr Veers you see is because people detest a PvE player proudly advocating for safer and more humane highsec. I know things didn't work out in the BU channel, but that was due to Solstice Project obsessing over me, and heavy handed moderation like Arden. The real trolls here are CODE, Marmite, Goons, etc... not me. Pay more attention and you will see that. I'm the victim, I'm getting wardecced and threatened, and I'm winning every time, ok?
As far as your value point...remember the pirate is the one who decided if there will be a ransom offered, and how much. You are free to use whatever system you would like...scan, no scan, whatever. Just throw out a number, give him 15 seconds, and if he doesn't pay, incinerate him. And let's be clear, if he knows there is a 100% chance of living if he pays, he will be more likely to pay.
As far as the economics....let's set it up as a standard 4 node game. Let's use, for example, a 1.5 bil freighter, with no cargo, and a pirate who demands a 500 million ransom.
The 4 nodes-
Ransom Paid / Ship Spared = pirate gets 500 mil, victim loses 0. Ransom Paid / Ship destroyed = pirate gets 500 mil + fun, victim loses 1.5 bil. Ransom Not Paid / Ship Destroyed = pirate gets 0 + fun, victim loses 1.5 bil. Ranson Not Paid / Ship Spared = not possible.
Because there are only 3 possible nodes, it's easy to solve the game. The pirate is better off always destroying the ship. Given that, the victim is better off not paying. Result, pirate gets some lols (worth less than the 500 mil ransom), and victim loses his ship. Total social utility = -1.5 billion. Now imagine we set up a mechanism to achieve the Ransom Paid / Ship Spares node, which has a total social utility of +500 mil. Everyone is better off - the pirate gets a nice payday and only loses a bit of fun, and the victim gets to keep his expensive ship.
But wait...how do we get there? We have a major collective action problem. The individual pirate, upon receiving a ransom, has no reason to spare the ship, because his personal reputation is irrelevant...no one really knows who he is anyway. Result - victims won't pay. The only way to get people to pay ransoms is to create some credibly mechanism where they know there is a high probability of payment. In the instant case, it becomes +EV to pay when the chance of survival exceeds 33%.
The way to create that assurance of survival is to make some kind of pirate guild, where members promise to honor ransoms. Will it always work? No. But it will work enough of the time to make it +EV for victims to pay...just like they know if they pay Cannibal Kane...they will live. So too they should know when they pay someone from the "honorable pirates guild" that there is a high chance of survival. That will revitalize lowsec piracy and make it profitable again.
One of the things I loved about Eve was honorable pirates who abide by ransoms...and I would love to see that make a return. We all collectively can make it happen. |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
79
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Posted - 2014.11.28 23:51:52 -
[10] - Quote
GÇ£No one is exempt from the rule that learning occurs through recognition of error.GÇ¥
https://zkillboard.com/kill/42485954/ https://zkillboard.com/kill/42669143/ https://zkillboard.com/kill/42669425/ https://zkillboard.com/kill/42692951/
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Miko Jin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
125
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Posted - 2014.11.28 23:54:09 -
[11] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:The issue is time...
Sitting in the middle of space deciding if I need to blow up or pay is a second decision.
Putting anything in place will be counter productive. Unless there is a system in place where I can put default values on ships (100mil ransom for a Rokh for example) and the target that is scrammed (if he is flying a Rokh) selects pay where the 100mil isk is stored in escrow to be paid when the limited engagement timer between the 2 or party ends.
If a killmail is generated in that time isk goes back from escrow to target. If there is no killmail isk goes to the predator.
This guarantees a target gets paid. but you will prolly have people giving pirates a bad name another reason to cry.
On the trolling side though. Have you seen your reply to threads recently? Ok, by popular demand, I will give the economics a go. As far as "trolling," I absolutely honestly believe the things I right. The Grrr Veers you see is because people detest a PvE player proudly advocating for safer and more humane highsec. I know things didn't work out in the BU channel, but that was due to Solstice Project obsessing over me, and heavy handed moderation like Arden. The real trolls here are CODE, Marmite, Goons, etc... not me. Pay more attention and you will see that. I'm the victim, I'm getting wardecced and threatened, and I'm winning every time, ok? As far as your value point...remember the pirate is the one who decided if there will be a ransom offered, and how much. You are free to use whatever system you would like...scan, no scan, whatever. Just throw out a number, give him 15 seconds, and if he doesn't pay, incinerate him. And let's be clear, if he knows there is a 100% chance of living if he pays, he will be more likely to pay. As far as the economics....let's set it up as a standard 4 node game. Let's use, for example, a 1.5 bil freighter, with no cargo, and a pirate who demands a 500 million ransom. The 4 nodes- Ransom Paid / Ship Spared = pirate gets 500 mil, victim loses 0. Ransom Paid / Ship destroyed = pirate gets 500 mil + fun, victim loses 1.5 bil. Ransom Not Paid / Ship Destroyed = pirate gets 0 + fun, victim loses 1.5 bil. Ranson Not Paid / Ship Spared = not possible. Because there are only 3 possible nodes, it's easy to solve the game. The pirate is better off always destroying the ship. Given that, the victim is better off not paying. Result, pirate gets some lols (worth less than the 500 mil ransom), and victim loses his ship. Total social utility = -1.5 billion. Now imagine we set up a mechanism to achieve the Ransom Paid / Ship Spares node, which has a total social utility of +500 mil. Everyone is better off - the pirate gets a nice payday and only loses a bit of fun, and the victim gets to keep his expensive ship. But wait...how do we get there? We have a major collective action problem. The individual pirate, upon receiving a ransom, has no reason to spare the ship, because his personal reputation is irrelevant...no one really knows who he is anyway. Result - victims won't pay. The only way to get people to pay ransoms is to create some credibly mechanism where they know there is a high probability of payment. In the instant case, it becomes +EV to pay when the chance of survival exceeds 33%. The way to create that assurance of survival is to make some kind of pirate guild, where members promise to honor ransoms. Will it always work? No. But it will work enough of the time to make it +EV for victims to pay...just like they know if they pay Cannibal Kane...they will live. So too they should know when they pay someone from the "honorable pirates guild" that there is a high chance of survival. That will revitalize lowsec piracy and make it profitable again. One of the things I loved about Eve was honorable pirates who abide by ransoms...and I would love to see that make a return. We all collectively can make it happen.
You talk too much Jibba Jabba. |
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
821
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Posted - 2014.11.29 00:31:03 -
[12] - Quote
Honestly I've never been a fan of people that ransom and don't honor it. You will never catch me in a fleet that tries to pull p*ssy **** like that. If you are going to kill the ship, kill it. If you are so damn poor that you have to scam someone for isk then God forbid I hope whoever you are and whoever you associate yourself with is labeled as a scammer.
Knowing Scandor, I don't think he would approve of something like this. What merc wants to be called a scammer?
Petty ass poor scrubs. Pvp for the kills.
"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."
U-MAD Membership Recruitment
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
866
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Posted - 2014.11.29 03:26:59 -
[13] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:This is just another example of why there needs to be a pirate code of conduct, so that pirates who do honor ransoms can join some large organization with other people committed to honesty and good faith. This will make piracy profitable again, instead of just a tearfest.
The idea of codifying a set of ethics and putting into place mechanics to enforce them is interesting, but I think it might be hard to get it to work. Pirates are a pretty diverse crew of folk as it is, and I think many would rebel against the notion of being part of a massive 'union'. If you think the rallying of high sec miners to do anything productive is like herding cats, just try imagining how much more difficult it would be to keep thousands of freedom loving blackhearts to tow some kind of party line in this respect.
If you operate in a specific system/constellation for any real period of time the locals will come to recognize your works and respond accordingly. Granted, those who do not honor their ransoms do make things harder for those who do by burning their potential customers, but people really do need to develop their own reputations when it comes to these things. |
Valkin Mordirc
409
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Posted - 2014.11.29 03:47:44 -
[14] - Quote
Forcing via an in game code, in a game where it's perfectly okay to not honor ransoms and be a right wanker, people to follow what you believe is right, is wrong Veers. If you hate people who don't honor ransoms so much, then why don't you do something about it? Rather than troll all over the forums.
EVE is a sandbox, you can do whatever you want, you just have to work for it, rather than sputtering about how there needs to be a "Code of Conduct" Because, that is completely, the opposite of EVE as it stands as a sandbox.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Persifonne
Monkey Demons Of Narnia
38
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Posted - 2014.11.29 04:54:33 -
[15] - Quote
You upset cuz 3 guys smarter than you managed to get 2bill drop and 2bill ransom and a 10bill km? Seems they are the smart ones. Theres gotta be a sheep for errrry wolf |
Persifonne
Monkey Demons Of Narnia
38
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Posted - 2014.11.29 04:56:11 -
[16] - Quote
Also i guarentee that next person in that situation with those people will have either never read this or forgotten it. This serves zero purpose you understand correct? |
Xorphix
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2014.11.29 09:30:43 -
[17] - Quote
As jealous as I am of that kill, Its pretty hilarious to see Forsaken Asylum resorting to such tactics to get their dictator, Scamdor, the iskies. I guess the rumors are true that FA's reputation has fallen by considerable magnitude... |
Starrakatt
Hunter Killers. Forsaken Asylum
126
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Posted - 2014.11.29 14:24:05 -
[18] - Quote
Xorphix wrote:As jealous as I am of that kill, Its pretty hilarious to see Forsaken Asylum resorting to such tactics to get their dictator, Scamdor, the iskies. I guess the rumors are true that FA's reputation has fallen by considerable magnitude... Huh? First time I heard about this, please elaborate.
As for many of these freighters and jump freighters, dying in droves, yes... Some ex-Freight Club and similarly minded individuals joined us, I'd say they do a great job. Forsaken Asylum have a policy that the loot (and ransoms if the individuals concerned try to exact one) go to the pilots participating on the kill, excep in major fleet ops, where it goes to alliance.
For example, this goes into MY pockets.
Thank you for your time.
Forsaken Asylum's ways
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Xorphix
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2014.11.29 18:13:40 -
[19] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:Xorphix wrote:As jealous as I am of that kill, Its pretty hilarious to see Forsaken Asylum resorting to such tactics to get their dictator, Scamdor, the iskies. I guess the rumors are true that FA's reputation has fallen by considerable magnitude... Huh? First time I heard about this, please elaborate. As for many of these freighters and jump freighters, dying in droves, yes... Some ex-Freight Club and similarly minded individuals joined us, I'd say they do a great job. Forsaken Asylum have a policy that the loot (and ransoms if the individuals concerned try to exact one) go to the pilots participating on the kill, excep in major fleet ops, where it goes to alliance. For example, this goes into MY pockets. Thank you for your time.
Thanks for your response. :)
Perhaps you could shed some light on why your alliance has shed a few corporations lately?
Also heard Cockroach left... :/ |
Luukje
The Phoenix Rising Forsaken Asylum
25
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Posted - 2014.11.29 20:34:52 -
[20] - Quote
So much jelly. |
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Commander Lojak
Sucker Punch. Forsaken Asylum
9
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Posted - 2014.11.29 20:52:09 -
[21] - Quote
Well, you'll have to get your spies to be less obvious and you might have the answer to all your questions!
Perhaps though you'd like to shed some light on why your alliance as a whole only killed 10.34B so far this month? Seems maybe you guys have shed some members too... :(. Maybe I even detect a hint of jealousy here just one of our kills almost tops your whole month, guess you guys better get your affairs in order! |
Starrakatt
Hunter Killers. Forsaken Asylum
128
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Posted - 2014.11.29 22:15:06 -
[22] - Quote
Croakroach comes and goes, always been this way, I believe he's back to FW right now, good for him.
I admit we have had a low activity peak lately (myself just came back after a month's hiatus) and we lost great comrades in Snipes Incorporated when they decided to move on and go back doing some low/nul piracy for a change - We parted on good terms and wishing them good luck in their new endeavours, anything to prevent the game to get stale.
I believe another corp was shed, it was when I was inactive, dunno if they were kicked or left by themselves. These things happens - old pilots come back, some leave, new blood come into play, all in a great merry circle as you well know.
Now, not to derail that thread too far, least it gets locked (OHNOOOES!!) - I always honour ransoms myself. But then, I never ask for any, for I like the pretty explosions.
Bwahahah.
Forsaken Asylum's ways
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1424
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Posted - 2014.11.29 22:58:47 -
[23] - Quote
mildly interesting
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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Chris Slayter
Baitfire Allibaitors
46
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Posted - 2014.11.30 00:14:54 -
[24] - Quote
Commander Lojak wrote: Perhaps though you'd like to shed some light on why your alliance as a whole only killed 10.34B so far this month? Seems maybe you guys have shed some members too... :(. Maybe I even detect a hint of jealousy here just one of our kills almost tops your whole month, guess you guys better get your affairs in order!
I can shed some light on this if you dont mind. It's actually within our averages although a bit lower than previous months since we had some non-combat stuff on our agenda this month. I'm predicting it will be back to normal or above the next month
Also I can say that we are growing, Xorphix being our newest addition to the team actually. Jealous of a multibillion killmail? I think everyone in the PvP business likes these, so yeah I'd be happy to have one of those but sooner or later I'm sure we will get there too.
So our affairs are perfectly in order
Edit for actual on-topic stuff:
I think one should honor a ransom if both parties agreed to it. But then again I would not have agreed on a ransom of only 2b when a hull worth almost 7b is tackled. I'd probably go with hull price as ransom and let him go. Victim gets to keep his ship and possibly freight without having to buy a new one etc. and agressor gets a nice amount of ISK in return. win, win. |
Marlin Spikes
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
164
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Posted - 2014.11.30 00:23:18 -
[25] - Quote
Why waste your time ransoming....just kill it and move on to the next target.
I'm also not a fan of ransoming. |
JitaRandom 1114422443
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2014.11.30 01:40:37 -
[26] - Quote
lol 10b kills alliance. thats effin sad. |
Siegfried Cohenberg
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2014.11.30 02:39:52 -
[27] - Quote
Hey you lost another jump freighter. In my opinion always pay the ransom though. At least as a way to tip them for their efforts. |
Cannibal Kane
Umkhonto we Sizwe
4455
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 03:50:28 -
[28] - Quote
JitaRandom 1114422443 wrote:lol 10b kills alliance. thats effin sad.
lol forum alt... so sad.
"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
334
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 04:03:07 -
[29] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:JitaRandom 1114422443 wrote:lol 10b kills alliance. thats effin sad. lol forum alt... so sad.
Nothing wrong with some cool NPC forum alts. |
Cannibal Kane
Umkhonto we Sizwe
4455
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Posted - 2014.11.30 04:08:59 -
[30] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:JitaRandom 1114422443 wrote:lol 10b kills alliance. thats effin sad. lol forum alt... so sad. Nothing wrong with some cool NPC forum alts.
Only when they provide valid feedback. Not to chirp nonsense, while hiding.
"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
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