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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1188
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Posted - 2014.12.02 18:46:15 -
[91] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Querns wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote: No, you are not making a case for removing it, only listing reasons why it could be improved.
Agreed GÇö-áand removing it completely, in this instance, is the best improvement that can be made. Unfortunately it doesn't actually improve anything. No new gameplay, choices or benefits are created with the removal. Sure it does GÇö-áit allows people with large amounts of SP to more readily fly smaller, more vulnerable ships. You benefit from not having to have this little bit of pointless domain knowledge at the forefront of your mind every time you die. You benefit from not losing SP due to forgetting a pointless thing.
There is no mastery involved with clone costs. They are just a thing you have to remember to do in an environment with no time or financial pressure.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Adunh Slavy
1595
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Posted - 2014.12.02 18:48:43 -
[92] - Quote
For those that do not like this change, because you are of the opinion that it makes Eve too easy, feel free to send me the ISK that you would have had to pay before the change any time you are podded. I will hold that ISK in escrow for you for ever and ever, then for you, Eve can be just as difficult as before and the rest of us no-fee pod scrubs can bask in your elite glory.
No, don't like that solution ... what are you arguing again?
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
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Gogela
The Conference Elite CODE.
3279
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Posted - 2014.12.02 18:49:06 -
[93] - Quote
As a pod who's lost a lot of SP to inattention I'm pretty happy about this change.
Now if only we could salvage implant components from frozen corpses... |
Adunh Slavy
1595
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Posted - 2014.12.02 18:52:31 -
[94] - Quote
CCP Terminus wrote:In regards to the comments on making clones player created, and looking at how attributes and implants work. We are definitely looking at those kinds of things and we'll see where they go. We will be looking at removing unnecessary complexity, while keeping or adding to the depth of the mechanics.
Player made implants, from harvesting raw materials, intermediate processing and final good are where it is at. There should be a minimum of three levels of production, four would be ideal, five would be pushing it. Mix in new resources and old.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
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Beledia Ilphukiir
Proffessional Experts Group
45
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Posted - 2014.12.02 18:54:00 -
[95] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
The point being that, in this case, there is no reason to wait for the new mechanic before removing the old one becuse the old one has no net benefit to anyone.
That makes no sense, mechanics don't have to have net benefits to anyone. A game with nothing but beneficial mechanisms is not worth playing. Net penalties are just as important. A penalty for its own sake is just pointless punishment. A penalty as part of a conscious game design can be a good thing and provide for interesting gameplay. The old system was always a bad system, but it did have mitigating circumstances. Mainly the ISK sink and the prevention of free teleportation through podding. The problem with it now is, that the ISK sink could always be transferred to better gameplay systems and easy teleportation to the destination of your choice got nerfed. Basically at the moment the minor mitigating points have been largely removed, while the downsides are still there. The whole system is now nothing but a cancerous growth with little purpose and no enjoyment, so there is no reason to preserve it anymore. A new system maybe be build where it once stood, but getting rid of the old one is a good chance no matter if those plans ever come to fruition or not. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1142
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Posted - 2014.12.02 18:59:22 -
[96] - Quote
I swear if in the next dev blog you say "We are removing pirate implant sets because they make it to hard for new players to fight against older players" or something along those lines...
You had better not. I can't say just how awesome the different playstyles garnered by the pirate implant sets are. Love being fast tackle? Snakes. In an armor BS? Slaves. Soloing in a Maelstrom? Crystals.
If anything, introduce new ones...
Also, if you remove death penalties altogether, then it wouldn't really feel right.
TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~
Youtube ~ Join Us
My ship fits
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
293
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Posted - 2014.12.02 18:59:41 -
[97] - Quote
Querns wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Querns wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote: No, you are not making a case for removing it, only listing reasons why it could be improved.
Agreed GÇö-áand removing it completely, in this instance, is the best improvement that can be made. Unfortunately it doesn't actually improve anything. No new gameplay, choices or benefits are created with the removal. Sure it does GÇö-áit allows people with large amounts of SP to more readily fly smaller, more vulnerable ships. You benefit from not having to have this little bit of pointless domain knowledge at the forefront of your mind every time you die. You benefit from not losing SP due to forgetting a pointless thing. There is no mastery involved with clone costs. They are just a thing you have to remember to do in an environment with no time or financial pressure.
There was no such obstacle before, clone costs have never been connected to ship size by any game mechanic.
I don't benefit from not having to remember to upgrade my clone, earlier I did benefit from remembering it.
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Winter Archipelago
Thera Industries
302
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:00:36 -
[98] - Quote
The people who are equating standings loss for running missions to having to update your clone are forgetting one critical thing: When you lose standings for one group, you're gaining standings with another group. Often, changes to standings are reflected across multiple factions. Getting a +% under Amarr also gives a +% for Caldari, Khanid, and Ammatar, while giving a -% for Gallente and Minmatar (among other less-notable factions). You are also gaining ISK and, if you're missioning as opposed to ratting, you're gaining LP. Increasing standings with one group can also give you access to jump clones and lower taxes, a trade-off for the risk of lowering your standings with other groups.
With clone upgrades, there is no option. You upgrade, or you put a significant amount of time in jeopardy without having any sort of reward other than not having wasted two weeks' time. There is no benefit to clone upgrades, there is only a drawback if you don't do so. With standings, there are benefits to having higher standings, and you have to make a decision regarding whether or not those benefits are worth having lowered standings with another faction. With clone upgrades, all you get is "I either upgrade and keep the SP that I currently have, or I don't upgrade and will very likely lose two weeks' training."
There is no benefit gained because you already have the SP. There is only a drawback. That isn't a true choice, whereas taking a hit to standings with one group to gain standings with another group is an actual choice.
Join the channel Thera Industries in-game for a general public channel for Thera-based industrialists.
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
293
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:04:50 -
[99] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:For those that do not like this change, because you are of the opinion that it makes Eve too easy, feel free to send me the ISK that you would have had to pay before the change any time you are podded. I will hold that ISK in escrow for you for ever and ever, then for you, Eve can be just as difficult as before and the rest of us no-fee pod scrubs can bask in your elite glory.
No, don't like that solution ... what are you arguing again?
It's not about the ISK, clone costs are trivial and literally nobody cares about them. However, the fear of losing skillpoints was not trivial, it was a horrible consequence for your own mistake. Now there's no fear anymore, you can lose your pod million times and it never means anything.
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SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
237
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:09:18 -
[100] - Quote
Querns wrote:SFM Hobb3s wrote:As much as I will like not having to worry about clone costs any more, CCP seems to have overlooked the strategic and tactical implications this change will have.
CCP has unwittingly undone a positive combat change implemented with Phoebe with this move. With Phoebe, because you can no longer remotely move your deathclone, it was possible to incap station medical services (made easier with Phoebe), which would prevent any smart player from undocking again if they had gotten killed and podded.
This is something that would be pretty useful given the hideous state of sov warfare, especially with several hundred combatants in the system, and now it will be gone. This would have meant more if it were possible to incap NPC 0.0 medical services.
Hehe, suckers...Venal deployment best deployment |
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1142
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:09:54 -
[101] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:I hardly get out of my slave set
You hardly get out of station.
#Shotsfired #Corpbanter #Imissyoubro
TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~
Youtube ~ Join Us
My ship fits
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7172
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:12:17 -
[102] - Quote
Remove T3 cruiser skillpoint loss, revamp T3.
Recon makes them stronger
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Ashlar Maidstone
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
128
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:13:20 -
[103] - Quote
@ CCP_Phantom;
From what I have read to this change, I looked at the pros and cons of this and have a question for you; Are you SAYING that after all this time of logging in to set skill ques and accrueing skill points will go out the window???? Are you telling me that irregardless of how much time I or as any veteran in the past will ask, what was the ORIGINAL point of EVEN having such a system in place??
Are you telling me that after all of the time I PERSONALLY spent hard earned ISK for clone upgrades to cover my own skill point has become personally a waste of my time, energy and millions in isk thrown away......FOR NOTHING???
I prided myself for such an accomplishment to even get the required skill points to even get a battleship, fittings galore, rigs and having to skill up to even undock my BS and to see the number of points I gained which was a major accomplishment in and of it's own right. Then in conclusion contrary to others here in this discussion I have wasted my time, credit card balance for absolutely nothing.
I will apologize if I sounded like I was ranting but I wasn't I was just merely emphasizsing my question in general, I do look forward to a reply by Evemail rather than the forums.
In Kind Regards,
Ashlar Maidstone, Space Nun for The Empire. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7172
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:15:17 -
[104] - Quote
CCP Terminus wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:You know what's funny? I've made this exact same argument to Greyscale et al about skillpoints: Quote:Skill point acquisition is very much tied to your subscription and the real money you spent on the game, so taking some of their skill points away can feel like wasted money to the player. You know whats worse? When that logical argument is ignored by the devs every time they change a skill. One of the biggest changes I can remember is the change to the ME % in industry recently. Players complained and complained about losing something valuable and replacing it with something worthless. And you know what? You guys didn't have a single GOOD argument for why you shouldn't have refunded everyone's SP. In my opinion every time a skill is changed regardless of how trivial or major, you should refund the SP of that skill. Period. No questions asked. SP is simply too intertwined with the subscription costs to treat changes to them so nonchalantly. Your point did not go undebated in the office.
I hope discussion was like:
CCP dev1:....meh
CCP dev2:...me too meh.
Recon makes them stronger
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Sven Viko VIkolander
Friends and Feminists
313
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:16:10 -
[105] - Quote
This is a fantastic change. Has been suggested for years. The mechanic primarily harms newer players. There are no good arguments against it. Etc. etc.. bravo.
I will tell you exactly what needs to be changed after this, though: Jump clones need to be significantly changed, so that jumping in the same system to switch implants is completely removed from jumping across the galaxy for fast travel. The whole "clones as specialized implant sets" system and "clone as fast travel" mechanic need to be completely separated.
Along with that, you need to allow for multiple clones in a single station. THEN, you need to allow clones to be moved by players, so that if I want to deploy to an area I don't have to spend days jumping to each of my clones and moving them, instead I can put them all in a ship and take the huge risk to fly them to my destination.
Those changes are at the top of my list for improvements to EVE by a wide margin. |
Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy Caldari State
172
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:17:56 -
[106] - Quote
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:@ CCP_Phantom;
From what I have read to this change, I looked at the pros and cons of this and have a question for you; Are you SAYING that after all this time of logging in to set skill ques and accrueing skill points will go out the window???? Are you telling me that irregardless of how much time I or as any veteran in the past will ask, what was the ORIGINAL point of EVEN having such a system in place??
Are you telling me that after all of the time I PERSONALLY spent hard earned ISK for clone upgrades to cover my own skill point has become personally a waste of my time, energy and millions in isk thrown away......FOR NOTHING???
I prided myself for such an accomplishment to even get the required skill points to even get a battleship, fittings galore, rigs and having to skill up to even undock my BS and to see the number of points I gained which was a major accomplishment in and of it's own right. Then in conclusion contrary to others here in this discussion I have wasted my time, credit card balance for absolutely nothing.
I will apologize if I sounded like I was ranting but I wasn't I was just merely emphasizsing my question in general, I do look forward to a reply by Evemail rather than the forums.
In Kind Regards,
Ashlar Maidstone, Space Nun for The Empire.
Nothing you did was a waste of time as at the time you did it, it mattered and you benefited from it. This change doesn't go back and remove the benefits you received during that time, it just changes the way things impact you going forward. Your logic here is horrible. |
Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy Caldari State
172
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:19:31 -
[107] - Quote
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:This is a fantastic change. Has been suggested for years. The mechanic primarily harms newer players. There are no good arguments against it. Etc. etc.. bravo.
I will tell you exactly what needs to be changed after this, though: Jump clones need to be significantly changed, so that jumping in the same system to switch implants is completely removed from jumping across the galaxy for fast travel. The whole "clones as specialized implant sets" system and "clone as fast travel" mechanic need to be completely separated.
Along with that, you need to allow for multiple clones in a single station. THEN, you need to allow clones to be moved by players, so that if I want to deploy to an area I don't have to spend days jumping to each of my clones and moving them, instead I can put them all in a ship and take the huge risk to fly them to my destination.
Those changes are at the top of my list for improvements to EVE by a wide margin.
This. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1427
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:25:30 -
[108] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Eugene Kerner wrote:I hardly get out of my slave set
You hardly get out of station. #Shotsfired #Corpbanter #Imissyoubro
heyheyhey...I did yesterday...Blopsed a Fcon BS fleet. They had spider Domis and ****...was not even easy to kill them.
#feedsthebabyduringops #shotstaken #ilikeboobies
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
254
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:25:56 -
[109] - Quote
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:stuff
What exactly is your complaint here? They're removing skill point loss on death, not messing with your ability to fly a battleship or whatever you do in highsec.
This is a great change for everyone. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
424
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:28:56 -
[110] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Good change overall. Now I'd like to see other penalties removed that prevent people from playing the game itself. I'm thinking standings penalties for missions for factions you care about. I'm thinking about standings loss from faction warfare. -9.8 faction standing with gallente and proud of it! |
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Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
254
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:30:05 -
[111] - Quote
CCP:
Does this mean you can look at removing the need for medical bays on stations? After Rhea, the only use for them will be to set Jump Clones and to manually change your clone location.
What if we set our corp HQ to a station without a medical bay and then use the built in feature to change our clone location to that station? I haven't tried that in game and don't want to blow a year cd on it :)
After this change it seems like an additional unnecessary requirement for people. The days of pod cloning are over, so aside from jump clones, we're stuck flying everywhere manually anyways. |
rsantos
TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
23
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:31:42 -
[112] - Quote
Would love to see some stats on skill point loss |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
424
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:36:03 -
[113] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:I am not sure if CCP have considered this, but how will this effect the current importance of medical facilities?
As of now, medical facilities are of vital strategic importance, as if your reanimate in a station without medical facilities, then you cannot upgrade your clone and basically cannot pvp unless you risk losing SP.
For this reason most people try and base their corporation at a location with a medical facility, and there is real meaning to death as if you are defending an area with no medical facility then when you are podded you end up out the fight. Many corporations have based themselves around stations with vital medical facilities for these reasons.
Are there any plans now to keep the importance of medical facilities? As of now they have no purpose with this change, and a massive blow has been struck to the strategic planning of many corporations. You can't set your clone to a non-medical station anymore with the abolition of podjumping. Incorrect I believe. You can still set your clone location to your corporation office, which doesn't have to have a medical facility. This is correct. Reverse pod-jumping back to a friendly station or your home station leaves the other clone in the place you jumped from. This is a commonly accepted tactic for day ops in enemy fw hisec, or running nullsec missions in pirate space. You can pod jump FROM anywhere you're not locked out of; it just takes a little effort. |
Ashlar Maidstone
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
129
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:38:54 -
[114] - Quote
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:Ashlar Maidstone wrote:@ CCP_Phantom;
From what I have read to this change, I looked at the pros and cons of this and have a question for you; Are you SAYING that after all this time of logging in to set skill ques and accrueing skill points will go out the window???? Are you telling me that irregardless of how much time I or as any veteran in the past will ask, what was the ORIGINAL point of EVEN having such a system in place??
Are you telling me that after all of the time I PERSONALLY spent hard earned ISK for clone upgrades to cover my own skill point has become personally a waste of my time, energy and millions in isk thrown away......FOR NOTHING???
I prided myself for such an accomplishment to even get the required skill points to even get a battleship, fittings galore, rigs and having to skill up to even undock my BS and to see the number of points I gained which was a major accomplishment in and of it's own right. Then in conclusion contrary to others here in this discussion I have wasted my time, credit card balance for absolutely nothing.
I will apologize if I sounded like I was ranting but I wasn't I was just merely emphasizsing my question in general, I do look forward to a reply by Evemail rather than the forums.
In Kind Regards,
Ashlar Maidstone, Space Nun for The Empire. Nothing you did was a waste of time as at the time you did it, it mattered and you benefited from it. This change doesn't go back and remove the benefits you received during that time, it just changes the way things impact you going forward. Your logic here is horrible. P.S. "irregardless" should be "regardless."
LOL my bad spelling, blame it on my auto-spellchecker! Well still tho I feel like I wasted a tremendous amount of time and resources to get to where I'm at today, but thanks for your input tho!
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Adunh Slavy
1596
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Posted - 2014.12.02 20:10:43 -
[115] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote: ... it was a horrible consequence for your own mistake ...
Which mistake was that? Going out flying around and having fun? Yes that is a horrible mistake, let's keep everyone locked up in the stations.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7176
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Posted - 2014.12.02 20:31:35 -
[116] - Quote
Don't cry people, you wil have occasion to shoot some old, inexpewpewienced players without implants in their heads flying in cheap frigates. They will not cry, so why should you?
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
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Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
98960
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Posted - 2014.12.02 20:32:47 -
[117] - Quote
Good call CCP.
I'm excited to see what you guys have in store for clones after this change.
Unlock all the clothes || My Fanclub
Harmless - Penniless - Aimless
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1189
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Posted - 2014.12.02 20:40:13 -
[118] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:inexpewpewienced You're not very good at making portmanteaus.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Miss Doggy
Zahadu
16
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Posted - 2014.12.02 20:41:53 -
[119] - Quote
CCP Terminus wrote:In regards to the comments on making clones player created, and looking at how attributes and implants work. We are definitely looking at those kinds of things and we'll see where they go. We will be looking at removing unnecessary complexity, while keeping or adding to the depth of the mechanics. Typical CCP approach. lets change something and see how it goes lol |
XR05
XR05 Corp
0
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Posted - 2014.12.02 20:44:44 -
[120] - Quote
UFS Fenix wrote:What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve. Us hardcore pilots grinded missions so we could put poses in High sec, you guys changed this. Us veterans made extra isk and for over 7 years kept our clones up to date, you changed that. Why don't you remove all standings for factions so we can run lvl 4s from day one and get good refining from day one. Why do we have pods with the current changes? Just remove the pods and make us normal eve pilots... while your at it , get rid of everything else that adds risk to the game. We can just make the ships respawn with fittings in our hangers after we get blown up.
Change the name from eve-online to wow-online because that's where things are headed.
What ever happened to the other changes you promised years ago? Walking in stations never went anywhere, I cant manipulate anything in my captains quarters, doors don't close, cant enter main part of station, beds are useless...
Eve is about the risk/vs Reward. Removing risk, removes the fun. The cap changes last month I thought were great, things like this clone change make eve less risky and therefore less fun.
Yes you can have my stuff, for the trolls. It seems like in order to bring in more scrubs into eve you alienate the Veterans.
Yep, 100% true, 6-10 mo. and it's be "woo-online" so kids from 5 and up can play, may be somebody want to destroy EVE, like baby steps with this "micro" updates... |
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