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Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:12:00 -
[91] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Zagdul wrote:Hamatitio wrote:Tanya Powers wrote:Zagdul wrote:Please... Revert this change.
This change is wrong on so many levels.
Please explain the reasoning on this. Why is it wrong? If you target someone, choose to put a warp disruption probe on it, there's no reason you shouldn't have the aggression timer. Act = consequence You choose to drop your own bubble there, it's ok, you know you have consequences now and you will adapt or die. Because you don't target anyone to launch it. Hell let's make smartbombs cause aggression when it does no damage This. And Bombs, Combat Probes Oh ****.. I launched drones, I've done an aggressive act. When bombs detonate, they do give aggression. If you jump through a gate after launch, they simply do not explode. Combat probes do not harm or affect any other ship, they simply help find them. Drones do not harm or affect any other ship merely by being launched. Warp disruption bubbles affect all other ships warping in line to the point in space where the probe is dropped. They affect a ships possible trajectory from the moment they are launched until the expire. I know you want to launch and run, understandable. I tell you what, if they decide to let me launch a bomb and then jump through a gate and still have it detonate... then you can have back your ability to do the same with warp disruption probes.
Why would u lanch bombs? for fun like a dictor launches bubbles for fun? Why would u launch combat probes? to find (hostile) ships for fun? like launching dictor bubbles? Why would u launch combat drones? for fun? like dictor bubbles?
If CCP is rlly op they gave u agression only when someone warp inline to your bubble and shows agression timer. What u do is twisting facts around, its fail CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
396
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:12:00 -
[92] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:More to the point, they decided they didn't like the tactic of dropping a bubble and then jumping through a gate or docking.
Granted, the tactic made a dictor pilots life easier, and allowed them to drop, jump thru a gate, and get set up on the other side quickly and safely.
Now a second dictor (or it's equivalent) will be needed to secure both sides of a gate. Also, dictor pilots will be committed to being on the side where their bubble is, and any ensuing combat.
This will have a small but noticeable effect on dictor fittings... and the tactics FC's use, as well as to fleet composition. Your resoning is really flawed, Your dictor needs 2 bubble launchers for this: there is timer between launching bubbles (tactik is gone: always agroo dictor bubbles) Your dictor loses dps and tank on this way Your dictor need atleast 1 scram and 2 webs to slow down anything that is not a T1 hauler preventing from burning back to the gate Fail with capital F I bet u never flown a dictor
First: Read the topic, THEN post. Most of your points have already been covered.
Second: All of the examples you have given in your flurry of posts are acts with that directly (adversely) affect your opponents ship, thus aggression is certainly not out of the question.
Third: I have likely forgotten more about flying dictors than you will ever know.
No, seriously, my memory is getting really bad lately. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Aphoxema G
PONIES EVERYWHERE
69
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Posted - 2011.11.28 22:17:00 -
[93] - Quote
cBOLTSON wrote:Thankyou for the constructive critisism. Its a nice change from the usual forum rants.
I'm happy you see if for that, most people assume I'm either trying to big word them to death or that I'm attacking them.
cBOLTSON wrote:The thing I mostly have a problem with is that deploying a bubble affects your own fleet as much as it would others. I dont see it as an act of aggression, more a landscape changer.
I suppose it could be argued that its changing the favour of the landscape to suit the dictor pilot. I dont know. I just dont like this change and think it is ill concieved.
There may have been a better solution, there may have been hundreds of better solutions. There is the fact that if I drop a bomb, even on my own fleet, I'm still committing an act of aggression. The game doesn't know whether my fleet wanted me to do that or if I'm a sleeper "accidentally" attacking my own fleet, and it's not like anyone gets to opt out of a disruption field due to inconvenience.
cBOLTSON wrote:Either way it is comming I guess so I will have to deal with it.
Still CCP sould REALLY discuss these sort of changes before hand......silly icelandic ruffians!
Though it is a change I like I am uncomfortable with the lack of warning. People who don't keep up on the patch notes won't have the opportunity to adapt. People who have better ideas don't have the chance to submit them. If this was a last-second decision, it was a mistake to drop it on us without an opportunity for testing/discussing.
Wouldn't you like to be my little PWNEE? |
Aphoxema G
PONIES EVERYWHERE
69
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:19:00 -
[94] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:If CCP is rlly op they gave u agression only when someone warp inline to your bubble and shows agression timer. What u do is twisting facts around, its fail
If I launch a bomb/probe/anything else and my target just happens to get out of the way in time, do I deserve to wimp out and run off in a way formerly unique to interdictors?
Wouldn't you like to be my little PWNEE? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
396
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:20:00 -
[95] - Quote
Quote:People who don't keep up on the patch notes won't have the opportunity to adapt. People who have better ideas don't have the chance to submit them. If this was a last-second decision, it was a mistake to drop it on us without an opportunity for testing/discussing.
Agreed.
I know they like to keep a few surprises under their hat, but this one has alternatives and would have benefited by exploring them with the community first.
To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:21:00 -
[96] - Quote
L'ouris wrote:
I suppose it can strand the DIC in system, but I'm not sure that is 'unfair' for the delay tactic.
I would like u to invite to a roam of me after the patch. U may fly the dictor and i drop u in the middle of hostile space since u dont mind to:
A) get separate form the fleet b) get separate by the fleet and slow it down after 15 mins due u need to catch them up c) u need to log off due camps and get back on your own a day later d) all the above + your evening is ruined due your fun is over
No one wants to fly a dictor after this change
CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
396
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:26:00 -
[97] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:L'ouris wrote:
I suppose it can strand the DIC in system, but I'm not sure that is 'unfair' for the delay tactic.
I would like u to invite to a roam of me after the patch. U may fly the dictor and i drop u in the middle of hostile space since u dont mind to: A) get separate form the fleet b) get separate by the fleet and slow it down after 15 mins due u need to catch them up c) u need to log off due camps and get back on your own a day later d) all the above + your evening is ruined due your fun is over No one wants to fly a dictor after this change
I really shouldn't reply to you until you have the courtesy to read the thread before you post.
However, I will say that if the FC makes that call now he'd better have a damn good reason from this point on. If it's still his standard practice to get his fleet out of trouble, you're probably right... he won't have many dictor pilots willing to fly with him as his willingness to sacrifice them because he still needs his crutch is absurd.
Pst. When you have aggression at a gate, you don't have to wait 15 minutes to jump through. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
76
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:30:00 -
[98] - Quote
Surely this should be changed for ALL area of effect weapons? After all, If you're firing smartbombs, or ECM bursts, you're doing so with hostile intent.
Otherwise, this is just discrimination yo'.
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Aphoxema G
PONIES EVERYWHERE
69
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Posted - 2011.11.28 22:32:00 -
[99] - Quote
Soi Mala wrote:Surely this should be changed for ALL area of effect weapons? After all, If you're firing smartbombs, or ECM bursts, you're doing so with hostile intent.
Otherwise, this is just discrimination yo'.
I absolutely agree.
Wouldn't you like to be my little PWNEE? |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:37:00 -
[100] - Quote
Aphoxema G wrote:Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:U are really stupid, does this mean if u anchor a mobile bubble for yourselve (not corp) u deserve to get 24/7 agroo?? Nonsense, the problem here is excess protection and superiority for interdictors. If they want to run away, warp out. If they want to command both sides of a gate, bring two interdictors. Deploying a stationary field has its own risks and costs. No nonsense same resoning, why would u put up mobile bubble for other resons than agressions? u are trying to prevent ppl for warping or trying to alter their warp trajectory, same stuff, very flawed.....
Deploying stationary field? hics are crap, im awaiting for what range the T2 warp field gives. Currenty the hic at L5 gives 20km range. That is exacly the gate jump in range (18-22km). A hic with bubble up moves around 100m/s... a hic on a gate catching noting thats fast. U are sugesting dicters are over powered. By saying that i know u never flow onw. Pls link you dictor kills so i know where u are talking about and not trolling stuff where u have no clue about....... (mine u find here)
Aphoxema G wrote:Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:Your resoning is really flawed,
Your dictor needs 2 bubble launchers for this: there is timer between launching bubbles (tactik is gone: always agroo dictor bubbles) Your dictor loses dps and tank on this way Your dictor need atleast 1 scram and 2 webs to slow down anything that is not a T1 hauler preventing from burning back to the gate
Fail with capital F
I bet u never flown a dictor Aphoxema G wrote: It doesn't matter if a ship loses DPS if they never intend to use it. What has been done is launching the probe invokes an aggression timer. If after that timer ends the field spills anyone's milk it doesn't matter.
He was sugesting solo dicters using the dual probe tactic CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS |
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Aphoxema G
PONIES EVERYWHERE
69
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Posted - 2011.11.28 22:43:00 -
[101] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:Something?
I really would like to continue this discussion with you but I just don't have the facility to understand what you're saying. Can you simplify that for me?
Wouldn't you like to be my little PWNEE? |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:43:00 -
[102] - Quote
Aphoxema G wrote:Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:Something? I really would like to continue this discussion with you but I just don't have the facility to understand what you're saying. Can you simplify that for me?
learn dutch and i will
ps: napy time, kinda wasting my time here on trolls and talkign with ppl about ships they never flown. CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
396
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:49:00 -
[103] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:Aphoxema G wrote:Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:Something? I really would like to continue this discussion with you but I just don't have the facility to understand what you're saying. Can you simplify that for me? learn dutch and i will ps: napy time, kinda wasting my time here on trolls and talkign with ppl about ships they never flown.
No my friend, you wasted our time by
Replying to arguments that had already been answered, because you start spamming crap without reading the thread first.
Using circular arguments that have little relation to what is being discussed.
Insisting that your limited knowledge of how dictors are, or more importantly CAN be used is more than basic at best.
Failing to understand aggression times.
Failing to understand the role Hictors play as opposed to Dictors, and the tactics used to make them effective. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Amsterdam Conversations
Cheesecake Starshine
62
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:49:00 -
[104] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:Hirana Yoshida wrote:Wait, what?
Have dictor pilots lived with ability to be mail whores without getting aggression for it the past 3-4 years?
Hahahahaha .. how many want to go back to not being registered on mails then?
Cake: Eat it or Have it .. choose one. you don't get on the KM unless the person tries to warp off. So, using your "cake and eat it too" If I launch a bubble and nobody warps off, I get no agression but not on the KM. If I launch it and someone lands/tries to warp off, I should get agression but also on the kill. deal? Are you serious?
You already get on kills if someone tries to warp inside your bubble.
Someone warping into your bubble is another story. |
Aphoxema G
PONIES EVERYWHERE
69
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:50:00 -
[105] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:Aphoxema G wrote:Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:Something? I really would like to continue this discussion with you but I just don't have the facility to understand what you're saying. Can you simplify that for me? learn dutch and i will
Okay, to the part I did understand... your experience with interdictors and your obvious success with them doesn't really have much impact on the point here. I don't have to use an interdictor to understand that there is an unfair advantage in allowing an interdictor to jump after launching a disruption probe. This apparently isn't a problem for you anyways because you actually have killmails to show me instead of cowering and running away.
As for commanding both sides of a gate... I don't care about the sacrifice you make in having two probe launchers. You should have to choose which side of that gate you'll be on when the fight starts, and if your fleet is concerned about it then they should bring two interdictors or resort to more traditional methods of screwing people over.
I don't doubt your ability, and I respect what you can accomplish because I really suck at everything. It just isn't fair that interdictors are free to chicken out or avoid bad directions.
Wouldn't you like to be my little PWNEE? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
396
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 23:04:00 -
[106] - Quote
Aphoxema G wrote:Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:Aphoxema G wrote:Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:Something? I really would like to continue this discussion with you but I just don't have the facility to understand what you're saying. Can you simplify that for me? learn dutch and i will Okay, to the part I did understand... your experience with interdictors and your obvious success with them doesn't really have much impact on the point here. I don't have to use an interdictor to understand that there is an unfair advantage in allowing an interdictor to jump after launching a disruption probe. This apparently isn't a problem for you anyways because you actually have killmails to show me instead of cowering and running away. As for commanding both sides of a gate... I don't care about the sacrifice you make in having two probe launchers. You should have to choose which side of that gate you'll be on when the fight starts, and if your fleet is concerned about it then they should bring two interdictors or resort to more traditional methods of screwing people over. I don't doubt your ability, and I respect what you can accomplish because I really suck at everything. It just isn't fair that interdictors are free to chicken out or avoid bad directions.
Don't be too impressed with his killboard statistics.
The vast majority of his kills are pods. It's very easy to kill pods when you come back to the side of the gate the fight was on after your buddies kill off the enemy and the pods are still floating in your bubble... or to wait on the other side with your 2nd bubble up waiting for the pods to come through.
You'll also notice the majority of his "kills" are in his Sabre, which is typical of a person flying a dictor as they get on every single kill mail of every person that tried to warp out of it.
Sometimes you have to be used to the mechanics of kill boards to be able to get an accurate picture of what the stats actually mean. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
ThisIsntMyMain
Republic University Minmatar Republic
65
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 23:24:00 -
[107] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: I have, many times, in the past. More recently I spend my time giving them warp in points, or telling them when to drop.
Ranger, we used to be in the same alliance, I've flown with you many times, and I actually quite like you even though we disagree quite badly here. But you do realise that both Eve-kills and battleclinic can tell the entire world exactly what ships you fly (even though I don't actually need to look in your case) and how often you fly them and when you last PvPed.
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Ulstan
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 23:26:00 -
[108] - Quote
You're putting a giant mine in space. How should it NOT cause aggression?
I understand it will change existing tactics, but that's EVE: adapt to changes or die. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 23:30:00 -
[109] - Quote
Jon Marburg wrote:Looking at SiSi it doesn't appear that any of the interdictors have received the sig and hp buff of their T1 counterparts. Was this intentional or just overlooked? In the current state, dictors entire role consists of bubbling and getting off field or hiding. Was kind of hoping that pilots for these ships would be able to actually have a reason to fit guns to their ships, because right now they're just expensive coffins if you stay on field. Looking at the numbers it appears that the T1 versions now have equal dps and more ehp and survivability. It seems appropriate that the T2 version be at least as survivable as the T1, as right now there is no reason to fly them aside from the bubble.
On related note, overdue balancing is overdue |
Metal Icarus
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
19
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 23:48:00 -
[110] - Quote
The main drawback that I can see from this happening is that dictor pilots will not be able to slow down fleets hot on their trail. It will be like a sacrifice.
Dictor Pilot: I'll stay behind and hold them off commander...
Commander: Oh ye of the interdictor, we (the rest of the fleet) thank you for your sacrifice...
*Dictor pilot holds as a fleet of 20 lands in his bubble.... 15km off the gate.*
Dictor Pilot: YOU SHALL NOT PA- *ded*
But the rest of his fleet got away thanks to the extra 30seconds of burn time needed to get to gate.
Good change! |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
396
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 23:49:00 -
[111] - Quote
ThisIsntMyMain wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: I have, many times, in the past. More recently I spend my time giving them warp in points, or telling them when to drop.
Ranger, we used to be in the same alliance, I've flown with you many times, and I actually quite like you even though we disagree quite badly here. But you do realise that both Eve-kills and battleclinic can tell the entire world exactly what ships you fly (even though I don't actually need to look in your case) and how often you fly them and when you last PvPed.
Yeah, I was out for about a year due to some vision related issues.
Since then I've been spending the bulk of my time on other characters and letting Ranger be the bread winner. As you may or may not know, R1 has never been my main combat pilot. He is actually primarily industry specced.
That being said, you're correct in that I've gotten pretty snippy with people in this thread. It irritates me when people try to marginalize other people's very legitimate point of view by quoting KB stats (especially when dictor pilots can ho KM's easier than any other pilots in the game). Still, I'll try to be more tactful.
Truthfully, I'd be all for the alternatives suggested (bubbles pop if the dicter jumps out of system).
Edit: I should explain that last bit. It would leave "some" of the elements that dictors currently enjoy, but would inhibit the free ticket they have now. The tactic when covering retreats would be
1: Fleet jumps through, leaving dictor behind. 2: Dictor pops bubble and waits until the enemy fleet appears on scanner. 3: THEN dictor jumps through, hoping that the entire fleet was in warp when he jumped.
Even if they aren't all in warp by that time, it still slows at least some of them down... (likely their tacklers).
It would be a reasonable compromise. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers BricK sQuAD.
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 00:15:00 -
[112] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:The main drawback that I can see from this happening is that dictor pilots will not be able to slow down fleets hot on their trail. It will be like a sacrifice.
Dictor Pilot: I'll stay behind and hold them off commander...
Commander: Oh ye of the interdictor, we (the rest of the fleet) thank you for your sacrifice...
*Dictor pilot holds as a fleet of 20 lands in his bubble.... 15km off the gate.*
Dictor Pilot: YOU SHALL NOT PA- *ded*
But the rest of his fleet got away thanks to the extra 30seconds of burn time needed to get to gate.
Good change!
Haha.
Well like I said previously in this thread, fit a cloak and just mwd off and cloak after your drop the bubble. Its a crap alternative to just jumping through the gate.
I still DO NOT like these changes.
I find the lack of discussion with ccp on this matter annoying too. Typical CCP then. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
409
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 00:28:00 -
[113] - Quote
well I guess its fit a cloak or have a perch to jump to if you want to live, but still in that situation a delaying tactic robs the fleet of their bubble indefinitely. The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
DarkAegix
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
413
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 00:29:00 -
[114] - Quote
The OP is a terrible person. I'm going to put a bomb in their house, and triggers for it attached to every second square centimetre of space. If the OP triggers the bomb, it's their own fault, according to their own reasoning. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
409
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 00:35:00 -
[115] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:The OP is a terrible person. I'm going to put a bomb in their house, and triggers for it attached to every second square centimetre of space. If the OP triggers the bomb, it's their own fault, according to their own reasoning.
don't want to step in dog poo? watch where you're going
don't want to DIAF? don't walk into a burning building
Don't want to get mugged? don't go into the bad part of town at night
Don't want to get bubbled while warping? Don't warp directly to a gate you can't see or scan The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Killer Gandry
Shadow of the Pain
15
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Posted - 2011.11.29 00:37:00 -
[116] - Quote
If a neutral targets you in low or null sec, do you wait till he shoots?
Any none logi ship that isn't blue to me that targets me in low and null sec is for me an act of agression and I am not gonna give them time to shoot first if I can prevent it.
There is no peacefull reason to put up a bubble with a HiC or DiC. it's not asif you then are going to have a chat with those who land in your bubble.
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non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
167
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 00:59:00 -
[117] - Quote
It isn't such a big deal if you have more than one dic in your fleet. Besides it makes it more realistic. Maybe people should be able to use a smartbomb and then jump right after?
What is adapting? |
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
70
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 00:59:00 -
[118] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Agreed. Blue KM's as well. I can't think of a better way to determine who is a wise dictor pilot and who is an idiot that consistently gets his own fleet members killed. i like it!
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NaturalBeast
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 01:01:00 -
[119] - Quote
If this stays then make shooting NPCs and launching scan probes an aggressive act.
This change needs to go. |
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 02:48:00 -
[120] - Quote
NaturalBeast wrote:If this stays then make shooting NPCs and launching scan probes an aggressive act.
This change needs to go.
I agree, this change needs to go .. harder!
Any use of a module should trigger an aggression timer.
PS: Shooting NPC's IS an aggressive act. |
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