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Cymek Agamemnon
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:16:55 -
[1] - Quote
A few months ago I saw an article online about $300,000 in ships being destroyed in a battle online and thought it sounded interesting but had no free time and quickly forgot about it. Then about a week ago a friend of mine posted the new This is Eve trailed and I got curious again. I found this forum before I signed up (luckily or I would be 750M ISK poorer right now) and started reading. I'm the type who normally likes to have a good understanding of a game before I start playing so I can map out a race/character progression towards whatever style of play I want. I quickly realized that isn't exactly how Eve works. I love the complexity but it is also overwhelming at the same time for a new player.
I'm currently going through all the tutorials to get a feel for the whole game. I spend 10+ hours a day staring at spreadsheets for work so the last thing I want is more spreadsheets in a game so I figure that rules out industry. I like blowing stuff up so I'll probably be making my way towards PvP once I feel comfortable with the mechanics. I downloaded Eve Mon to help understand the skill tree a little better. Beyond that do you guys have suggestions for trying to cut out some of the noise? With so many possible combinations of ships/fittings/skills it's hard to know exactly where to go next. Maybe I should be taking it more one step at a time but I like to plan ahead. |
Rebelde Orbit White
Hoplite Brigade Iron Oxide.
11
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:22:46 -
[2] - Quote
If you doubt about fittings etc I'm sure you'll find plenty online or you can always ask someone in-game to link you some, since you want to do pvp i could send you some frigate fittings for any race you like.
Don't try to read everything before playing or you'll die before doing anything, try to get ingame start playing and when you get stuck or don't undestand something search about it, or ask someone else, sometimes asking someone is better than reading an article of 10000+ lines.
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
408
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:25:39 -
[3] - Quote
And try to steer away from all v or bust type of PvP crowd if you can help it.
Also what ever you plan on doing in the long term find a corp that supports it otherwise it gets boring and you just end up burning up. |
Chiana Moro
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
17
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:46:55 -
[4] - Quote
Cymek Agamemnon wrote:A few months ago I saw an article online about $300,000 in ships being destroyed in a battle online and thought it sounded interesting but had no free time and quickly forgot about it. Then about a week ago a friend of mine posted the new This is Eve trailed and I got curious again. I found this forum before I signed up (luckily or I would be 750M ISK poorer right now) and started reading. I'm the type who normally likes to have a good understanding of a game before I start playing so I can map out a race/character progression towards whatever style of play I want. I quickly realized that isn't exactly how Eve works. I love the complexity but it is also overwhelming at the same time for a new player.
I'm currently going through all the tutorials to get a feel for the whole game. I spend 10+ hours a day staring at spreadsheets for work so the last thing I want is more spreadsheets in a game so I figure that rules out industry. I like blowing stuff up so I'll probably be making my way towards PvP once I feel comfortable with the mechanics. I downloaded Eve Mon to help understand the skill tree a little better. Beyond that do you guys have suggestions for trying to cut out some of the noise? With so many possible combinations of ships/fittings/skills it's hard to know exactly where to go next. Maybe I should be taking it more one step at a time but I like to plan ahead.
Try to get into a player corp that does something of what you want to do (at the moment). You seem to lean towards combat - so look for either a pvp corp (who shoots other players for fun and profit) or some mission running corp. They will - if they are any good - help you with ships/fits/and what to do (and not to do) in the chosen field of the game. Apart from learning more quickly, it's much more fun playing with a group of people than doing stuff alone. Eve Online is very much a MMO not a single player experience.
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Llawa
Mosquito Squadron Mordus Angels
16
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:47:34 -
[5] - Quote
Getting a thorough understanding of all Eve mechanics would be a huge if not impossible task and certainly not a task you should worry about at the beginning.
If you want to get into PvP start small, choose a frigate and train the skills to match. Always ask for help when you need it.
Just so you know, your first PvP engagement will probably not end well. Keep going. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2188
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:52:53 -
[6] - Quote
i understand your approach very well, as i am a similar type of person. that said, there is no good reason not to just get in the game and learn by doing. sure, you will lose a few days of training time on skills that will prove useless to you in the end, but you will gain first hand experience with whatever you trained for (which is usually much more valuable).
on the topic of ship fittings, the ships&modules forum is your best bet. next best is the eve-university wiki. for pvp fits, you can browse eve-kill or zkillboard to see what ships players die in.
other useful sites include dotlan eve maps, eve-central, eveeye, eve-agents and others that i am forgetting.
I should buy an Ishtar.
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Primary Suspect
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:13:16 -
[7] - Quote
Find a good corp and u won't have to deal with spreadsheets. Plenty of recommended fittings out there, skill plans, etc. Even without a corp in a few hours of reading even stuff like eve uni wiki u can figure out a plan and work towards it. Eve only becomes Excel in space if u want it to be. Noone is forcing u to invent the wheel all over again. Watching some streams/pvp videos/tutorials can set u on the right track in terms of overview settings, general rules and tricks of the trade u wanna delve in. If u wanna go the pvp route i highly recommend starting flying in newbie gangs, because solo pvp without proper experience can be very frustrating at first. If u don't have tolerance for failing hard then u're better off flying with friends at first - ******* up while in a fleet most of the times won't get u killed, and even if it does u'll get a good explanation from ur bros in voice chat. Failing and learning together is fun! Welcome to EVE. P.S. if u don't want to ruin ur real life - uninstall the game right now, u're not sucked in yet |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7214
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:56:09 -
[8] - Quote
I strongly recommend finding a newbie friendly Corp to join.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4394
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Posted - 2014.12.03 18:08:58 -
[9] - Quote
I've been playing EVE over 5 years now. I like to consider myself very knowledgeable in most areas of EVE, but I can still admit that I definitely don't know everything. Newb for life
http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20060823 |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6677
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Posted - 2014.12.03 18:34:25 -
[10] - Quote
Cymek Agamemnon wrote:I'm the type who normally likes to have a good understanding of a game before I start playing so I can map out a race/character progression towards whatever style of play I want. I quickly realized that isn't exactly how Eve works. I love the complexity but it is also overwhelming at the same time for a new player. Okay... so... let me post this spiel about skillpoints so you have a better understanding on what you are getting into.
How does the skillpoint system work?
- All skills cap at level 5. No matter how many years you have played the game, you cannot exceed that limit. And lower tier skills (ex. [Racial] Frigate) are very quick to train relative to more advanced skills.
- (*this is the important one*) Only a limited number of skills affect any one ship, module, weapon system, and specialty at any given time. Addendum: training up one skill branch/specialty will not lock you out of another.
Ex1: You are a newbie facing someone with about 20 million SP... but how much of that overall SP is actually combat related? He/she could be a HUGE industrial player with limited combat skills. Ex2: A veteran player has just trained up the skill Large Hybrid Turret to level 5. That skill in no way affects the skill Small Hybrid Turret and thus the veteran will be no better or worse than before at the frigate level.
- Getting a skill from level 4 to level 5 only adds on an extra 2% here, 5% there (exceptions apply). If you simply train up all the skills within a specialty to level 4 (which takes ~20% of the amount of time it takes to get those skills to level 5), you will find yourself flying at about **80 to 90%** of the effectiveness of a multi-year veteran with those same skills in that specific specialty at level 5.
- Getting a skill to level 5 is supposed to be a painful train. Many players (yes, even veteran ones) opt to avoid doing it and instead train up other skills to level 4 (again, because it's faster).
Example: I personally have the T2 weapon specializations at level 4. That puts me at a 2% disadvantage in damage against someone who has the same skill(s) at level 5 (assuming we are both using the same ship with the same fit)
- Ships and weapons have been balanced against one another.
Example: A battleship can potentially instapop a frigate... but the frigate can fly very fast, making it difficult for the battleship's weapons to track, especially at very close range... then again, the battleship can deploy drones to deal with the frigate... and the frigate can shoot the drones down... however the battleship might have a Large Energy Neutralizer fitted to nuke the frigate's capacitor power every 24 seconds... in which case the frigate could use a Small Nosferatu that sucks out capacitor from the battleship every 3 seconds... etc. etc.
- High tech equipment (ex. T2, Faction, Officer, etc) will not give a player "I WIN" abilities. It simply gives a player a linear edge at an exponentially higher cost.
Ex1: A basic T1 Armor Adaptive Plating gives ~10% omni-resistance to damage for only a hundred thousand ISK... a T2 Armor Adaptive Plating gives ~15% omni resistance to damage for 1 million ISK... a "deadpsace" Armor Adaptive Plating gives ~19% omni resistance to damage for 15 to 20 million ISK.
Ex2: A group of three or four T1-fit frigates that cost about 500 thousand to 1 million ISK CAN kill a faction frigate worth about 50 to 100 million ISK... provided they are using the right mods in the right configuration and know what they are doing. https://zkillboard.com/kill/39793460/ (Condors caught me and ground me down... I only had time to kill one of them) https://zkillboard.com/kill/38239838/ (all the Breechers in this KM were T1 fit... I could only kill two of them before being nuked)
What does this all mean?
- Having more skillpoints is not the "end all, be all" point of the game and there is more to most activities than "get enough skillpoints, open window, click, press F1- F9." There are a plethora of factors that can decide success or failure and many of them are purely abstract in nature (see: planning, meta-gaming, friends, short-term allies, making deals, psychological warfare, etc).
- part of the idea behind the current SP system is that you can't "powergrind" to success. You MUST learn how to utilize what you have first... which requires you to use your head and be creative. This helps you later on when you can finally use "better" ships/equipment... because you have hopefully familiarized yourself with the underlying mechanics that both "basic" and "advanced" ships/equipment share. Example: you may not be able to pilot that sexy Interceptor right away... but that doesn't mean you can't slap together a super fast frigate that does something similar.
- once you have your "universal" core and support skills near or at maximum (which takes about 2 or 3 months of mostly focused training) the gap between you and an older player begins to narrow quite significantly. You can find these skills in the "Engineering" section of your character skillsheet.
- Just because you are limited in what you can do (as a newbie) it does not mean that your contribution to a team is meaningless and/or without weight. Being a "tackler" or cheapo Ewar-support in PvP might indeed be suicide if you have limited skills and knowledge... but even half-success can mean the difference between catching or losing a target... everyone escaping a bad situation or dying in a fire.
Also... check out my thread: "How did you veterans start?" It is a collection of stories from veterans and newbies alike on how they started the game and got to where they are now.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
732
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Posted - 2014.12.03 19:28:39 -
[11] - Quote
Donwload EFT (I recommend the alternative mirror link) or a similar program like Pyfa which lets you play with fittings outside the game. You can import your character API to see what kind of stats you get and how different modules and skills will affect them. It takes some experimenting, but becomes invaluable for the creative pilot - thinking outside the box with your fitting choices can give you a big advantage. Start with some basic cookie cutter fits from google and try and determine why they are fit that way (hint - they usually take advantage of the ship bonuses). Once you've become familiar with a few ships and their standard fittings, you can start mixing it up and trying new things. You'll fail a lot and come up with horrendous fits, but flying and losing them teaches you why they are weak.
Join a corp and ask for advice on fitting. Learning the "what" and the "why" from others is the fastest way to understand ship fitting (and the best way to remember long term). Always ask "why" if you don't understand. If the answer is "just because" always take it with a grain of salt. You can often do better than "just because" with a little thought (and some experience, which just comes with time).
I recently lost a dual-rep atron (strange fit) to a coercer (not my ideal target) and was reprimanded by an unimaginative pilot in local for my "bad fit". However, I had just killed a navy hookbill while tanking a procurer in it - clearly the fit was effective for its intended purpose. Smile and nod to the naysayers, and continue to experiment. Sometimes they are right, and sometimes they are wrong. If you learned something from the experience it doesn't really matter. (I went back and killed the coercer with an incursus - twice )
Here is an awesome site for the beginning PvPer (a bit dated by still very good info in general). Check out the section on frigates (easy to get in to with low skills and cheap). You can expect to die a lot at first - especially solo. That's why it's a good idea to get in a corp that will help you learn and bring you along on fleet ops where you can still be very useful in a support/tackle role as described above. Once you've got the basics of fitting, piloting, and awareness (dscan), you can branch out into whatever you prefer - solo pvp, small gang, or large fleet.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
GSLLC is recruiting
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Orlacc
647
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Posted - 2014.12.03 20:15:49 -
[12] - Quote
Short answer: Take your time and ask questions. Some forum denizens are dicks but most are not.
It's not like other games and it will click at some point. It is worth it. Deepest MMO ever.
Only some players use spreadsheets. (You know who you are)
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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William Ruben
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
71
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Posted - 2014.12.03 20:18:26 -
[13] - Quote
Join RvB and get out into space ASAP. Absolutely the best way to learn how to PvP is by doing, then asking in comms what you did wrong |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6680
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Posted - 2014.12.03 20:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:Some forum denizens are dicks but most are not. Is there a rule that says you can't be both?
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
3901
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:31:25 -
[15] - Quote
As a very basic starter PVP fit:
- Pick a frigate from any race. - If it's Gallente or Amarr, fit 2 mods that improve armor. If it's Caldari or Minmatar, fit 2 mods that improve shields. You'll pick poorly at first, keep trying new ones until you find your perfect combination. - Pick a weapon that your frigate has bonuses to, and fit the same weapon to every high slot that can take a weapon. Pick ammo for it. Don't worry if your choices are suboptimal. - Fit a warp scrambler if your optimal range is 8km or less, and a warp disruptor if it is longer. - Fit a stasis webifier and/or afterburner and/or microwarpdrive in each remaining midslot. - Fit a +damage mod appropriate to your primary weapon system in each remaining lowslot. - If you have a drone bay, fill it with 'Warrior I'. - If you run out of CPU or Powergrid, look at your weapons and replace them with 'smaller' weapons (e.g. downgrade to a lower calibre railgun if you use rails) - Look at the various options for rigs and see if you think any would synergize with what your ship is doing.
Your fit won't be optimal but it will be functional, and you'll learn from the experience.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
396
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Posted - 2014.12.04 01:57:49 -
[16] - Quote
If you haven't done it yet, slap some guns on a frigate, take it into lowsec, find someone bigger than you, and get blown up. You'll lose the ship and probably your pod. That's ok. Its cool. Its fun
Good luck!
Vote Sabriz!
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Cymek Agamemnon
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.12.04 02:08:34 -
[17] - Quote
Thanks for all the replies. I spent a good amount of time (maybe unhealthy amount) just messing around in game today and it definitely makes things click a little better than trying to read people's suggestions online. And thanks to the people who found me in game and answered questions for a while. I think my next step is getting myself blown up shooting at somebody!
Also if I'm planning on jumping into PvP is a headset going to be important/better than the chat? |
Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
396
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Posted - 2014.12.04 02:20:28 -
[18] - Quote
Cymek Agamemnon wrote:Thanks for all the replies. I spent a good amount of time (maybe unhealthy amount) just messing around in game today and it definitely makes things click a little better than trying to read people's suggestions online. And thanks to the people who found me in game and answered questions for a while. I think my next step is getting myself blown up shooting at somebody!
Also if I'm planning on jumping into PvP is a headset going to be important/better than the chat?
If you pvp in a group, it's most likely going to be required that you use voice comms (probably teamspeak or mumble). Getting a headset wouldn't be the worst idea, but as long as you can hear them then you'll do fine to start.
Vote Sabriz!
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
3907
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Posted - 2014.12.04 02:54:19 -
[19] - Quote
A headset is indeed very much worth your while for communicating with allies.
It's not normal to communicate with rivals during small scale engagements. In large scale ones, you will really, really want spies in your opponents' communication channels.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6692
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Posted - 2014.12.04 04:23:02 -
[20] - Quote
Just an addendum to the above; if you don't have a headset then earphones and fast typing will work. Just understand that you won't be playing "scout" or "command" roles until you have a proper microphone as PvP requires rapid dissemination of intel.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Azda Ja
Empyreal Shadow Vanguard
452
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Posted - 2014.12.04 09:40:27 -
[21] - Quote
All good stuff above, just going to add a decent skill plan you can follow, however loosely you please, they're guidlines, not "rules". It's geared towards the combat inclined, it gives you a good base to try out different types of PvE and PvP.
http://blog.beyondreality.se/Newbie-skill-plan-2
The forward is another very good introduction to the skill system, and how to approach it as a newbie. Don't fall for the "must have level 5 in everything" trap.
Here is also a cool blog I found for ship fits in Faction Warfare lowsec. Most assume you have decent skills, but there are "newbro" variants listed, and you can easily downgrade some of the more skill intensive fits as needed. I've used some fits there and also based some of my own off of them. Another nice thing for a newbie is he gives you a quick rundown on HOW to use the fits.
http://gallentemilitia.blogspot.com/p/noob-fits.html
Now, these are all Gallente vessels, but most of the basic strategies involved transfer to other race ships as well, it's a good read once you get the basics down, even if you don't use the fits.
Good luck out there, and fly dangerously o7.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4922
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Posted - 2014.12.04 09:42:58 -
[22] - Quote
Cymek Agamemnon wrote:Thanks for all the replies. I spent a good amount of time (maybe unhealthy amount) just messing around in game today and it definitely makes things click a little better than trying to read people's suggestions online. And thanks to the people who found me in game and answered questions for a while. I think my next step is getting myself blown up shooting at somebody!
Also if I'm planning on jumping into PvP is a headset going to be important/better than the chat?
For any PvP that consist of 2 or more players...Voice comms is a MUST have.
95% of the times though, being able to listen is just fine enough. Just certain roles must be able to speak (scouts / FC / target caller / Ewar command).
Think of it this way:
Try to type out this text in chat and have anybody read it as fast as you can say it:
Fleet, warp to Todaki VII - Asteroid Belt 2. Primary is Sabriz in the catalyst. Warp Todaki VII - Belt 2, primary is Sabriz in the catalyst.
As you might have found out, it takes less time to say it...and (unless people are AFK or asleep) anybody will hear it, where as you can't say if everybody actually IS reading chat.
The same counts for scouts, the time it will take to call in a target over voice is MUCH quicker then it is trying to type it out while keeping tackle and staying alive and hoping that people read it....
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
3925
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Posted - 2014.12.04 10:08:54 -
[23] - Quote
If you have surprise on your side you can command a small gang via text.
If the fight is close, however, the side that's better organised and more cohesive wins, and that's the side with voice chat and effective comms discipline.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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