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WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
5843
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Posted - 2014.12.11 08:43:41 -
[91] - Quote
I can see RFGs being used to replace bumping people away from a station's docking range, or making bumping tactics far easier.
this is going to make the game slightly more chaotic as ships are more easily destroyed by using repulsors.
mad? ( -í° -£-û -í°)
I'm a Snaper
Critically Preposterous is recruiting!
Hengle Teron > v(t) = dp / dt
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Livia Plurabelle
Dirt 'n' Glitter
0
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Posted - 2014.12.11 09:37:06 -
[92] - Quote
I want a force projecting repulse mod. I would only use it to throw miners I'm about to gank off their align though so I think your reason for the season is lacking.
/back on topic |
Zephris
Hattori Clan
3
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Posted - 2014.12.12 02:47:11 -
[93] - Quote
Ganking is a profession, just like mission running or mining Your argue that ganking is not profession because anyone can do it. But anyone can run mission or mine, does it make them less of a profession ? It's a profession as long as groups of people rely on it as a source of income. And profit margin (up to 100 bil isk per gank) vs risk involved (100 million isk) makes it completely broken. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
254
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Posted - 2014.12.12 11:00:54 -
[94] - Quote
Zephris wrote:Ganking is a profession, just like mission running or mining Your argue that ganking is not profession because anyone can do it. But anyone can run mission or mine, does it make them less of a profession ? It's a profession as long as groups of people rely on it as a source of income. And profit margin (up to 100 bil isk per gank) vs risk involved (100 million isk) makes it completely broken. Let me try one more time. Missioning and mining are traditional professions because the create ISK, modules and ore that are released into the greater Eve economy.
Ganking, (and other activities like hauling, scamming and trading) are not "professions" in that sense as they just move resources around New Eden and between players. The do not create wealth and are completely player driven (with the exception of distribution missions in these examples). Sure players may engage in these activities as their primary activity in Eve, but they are completely player-driven and therefore can not really be "balanced" in terms of ISK/h or risk vs. reward - the value and risk of these activities is completely dependent on the actions of other players.
Now as for ganking, it is balanced. It is balanced around the EHP of the ship - each ship has an amount it can carry where it will be unprofitable to gank, that is the cost of the gank ships will cost more than the expected drop after destruction of the target. This exact value is a function of the EHP, the cost of ganking equipment, the response time of CONCORD, and a few other factors, but the amount each ship can haul safely is generally known. If you overload your ship, you are taking a risk someone will notice and destroy it for profit. If you stay below that limit, you are much, much safer (although you still could be destroyed by someone for reasons other than direct profit).
Now if it was impossible to protect yourself from a ganker, you might have a case that something is broken. But this is not the case - many ships and strategies exist specifically to protect you and so you can move your stuff safely. For miners, the Skiff and the Procurer are incredibly tanked (and very resistant to bumping), so much so that there is no way to gank one for profit unless they are completely fit with expensive faction mods. For haulers, there are DSTs and Jump Freighters which are essentially immune to any reasonable ganking operation, and there are other strategies for moving your stuff safely as has been mentioned in this thread (like escorts). The only reason that profitable ganking is ever possible is because another player made a choice to take a risk and overload or overfit their ship. Many times this risk pays off and the player benefits from increased yield, the saving of time, or increased hauling profit - other times the player is noticed by a ganker and is relieved of their ship and cargo. This is not broken - that is the design of the game.
It is impossible to balance this any other way. Are you arguing that somehow a shuttle with 100B ISK worth of plex should require 100B ISK worth of gank ships to explode? No, a shuttle is a shuttle and if a player has such poor judgement to load 100B ISK worth of stuff in it (by the way, this number is outrageous - the ISK/h of an efficient ganker is much closer to the the average income for a L4 mission runner or less in most situations, otherwise you would see much more of it) then that player deserves to loose it. They should loose it exactly the same as if they decided to give that 100B ISK to an ISK doubler in Jita, or buying 100B of some worthless module on the market.
Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14158
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Posted - 2014.12.12 17:01:05 -
[95] - Quote
Zephris wrote:Ganking is a profession, just like mission running or mining Your argue that ganking is not profession because anyone can do it. But anyone can run mission or mine, does it make them less of a profession ? It's a profession as long as groups of people rely on it as a source of income. And profit margin (up to 100 bil isk per gank) vs risk involved (100 million isk) makes it completely broken.
100 billion isk ganks happen once a year at most.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
74
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Posted - 2014.12.13 02:42:39 -
[96] - Quote
Just a few things to comment on.
Iain Cariaba wrote:Show me one kill you have versus a known ganker where Concord wasn't involved. Hell, show me one kill versus a known ganker where you did even one point of damage. Not to argue the point you are trying to make but I am wondering how do you know someone is a ganker until you actually witness them ganking someone? And once they are involved in a gank it would seem to me that it would be hard to do even a significant level of damage compared to Concord much less kill them before Concord can do the deed?
Zephris wrote:But non of it has anything to do with people getting filthy rich by performing psychopathic behavior. I hate gankers and I believe the game would be better off without them but accusing them of psychopathic behavior is over the top even for me. Because a player chooses this legitimate game play style has nothing to do with who or what they are as a person and no I do not equate peoples actions in a game to what they are like in real life. |
Iain Cariaba
739
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Posted - 2014.12.13 05:05:29 -
[97] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Just a few things to comment on. Iain Cariaba wrote:Show me one kill you have versus a known ganker where Concord wasn't involved. Hell, show me one kill versus a known ganker where you did even one point of damage. Not to argue the point you are trying to make but I am wondering how do you know someone is a ganker until you actually witness them ganking someone? And once they are involved in a gank it would seem to me that it would be hard to do even a significant level of damage compared to Concord much less kill them before Concord can do the deed? This is actually very simple. All you need to do is find a CODE. agent, and they aren't hard to find.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
75
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Posted - 2014.12.14 00:51:24 -
[98] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Just a few things to comment on. Iain Cariaba wrote:Show me one kill you have versus a known ganker where Concord wasn't involved. Hell, show me one kill versus a known ganker where you did even one point of damage. Not to argue the point you are trying to make but I am wondering how do you know someone is a ganker until you actually witness them ganking someone? And once they are involved in a gank it would seem to me that it would be hard to do even a significant level of damage compared to Concord much less kill them before Concord can do the deed? This is actually very simple. All you need to do is find a CODE. agent, and they aren't hard to find. Likely true for the systems where there is a CODE agent. How about all the others? As I say just curious here.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
692
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Posted - 2014.12.14 03:40:03 -
[99] - Quote
Fly through Uedama with 2b in your cargo hold, you will quickly find a Code agent.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
75
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Posted - 2014.12.14 05:16:09 -
[100] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Fly through Uedama with 2b in your cargo hold, you will quiclly find a Code agent. And you missed the question, how do you know who is a ganker and who is not in the systems where CODE does NOT maintain a presence? |
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
692
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Posted - 2014.12.14 05:55:45 -
[101] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Fly through Uedama with 2b in your cargo hold, you will quiclly find a Code agent. And you missed the question, how do you know who is a ganker and who is not in the systems where CODE does NOT maintain a presence?
Everyone out there who is not purple, green, or blue is a potential ganker. Even some of the blues may be on the shady side...
In Eve, just assume everyone you meet wants your stuff or your tears, until proven otherwise. It's like they told us in Iraq, "Be kind. Be courteous. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet." Seriously, high sec is like a crowded bazaar in Baghdad. Someone in that crowd is waiting for you to make a mistake. When you do, you'll pay for it.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Iain Cariaba
739
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Posted - 2014.12.14 08:27:33 -
[102] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Fly through Uedama with 2b in your cargo hold, you will quiclly find a Code agent. And you missed the question, how do you know who is a ganker and who is not in the systems where CODE does NOT maintain a presence? Go into overview settings, find the setting for displaying pilots with security rating below 5, right click on it, click toggle blink. Voila, it is now easy to find someone who is very likely a ganker, as you don't lose sec status any other way besides shooting illegal targets, ie. other players.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
258
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Posted - 2014.12.14 09:39:27 -
[103] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Donnachadh wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Fly through Uedama with 2b in your cargo hold, you will quiclly find a Code agent. And you missed the question, how do you know who is a ganker and who is not in the systems where CODE does NOT maintain a presence? Go into overview settings, find the setting for displaying pilots with security rating below 5, right click on it, click toggle blink. Voila, it is now easy to find someone who is very likely a ganker, as you don't lose sec status any other way besides shooting illegal targets, ie. other players. Yup this works. And if you want even more intel on who may be a ganker, try Pirate's Little Helper.
Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
75
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Posted - 2014.12.14 18:31:36 -
[104] - Quote
Lain and Black Pedro Thank you for putting that into words here for others to read. |
Iain Cariaba
747
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Posted - 2014.12.14 19:17:15 -
[105] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Lain and Black Pedro Thank you for putting that into words here for others to read. You're quite welcome, although it's information easily found in any good guide on not getting ganked. I recommend the guide Feyd has on his blog.
On a side note, it's an upper case i, not a lower case L. Not sure why everyone assumes it's a lower case L when it's far more typical for the first letter of a name to be capitalized.
I blame CCP and their poor choice of font. Give us a font where an I doesn't look like a l, CCP.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
75
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Posted - 2014.12.15 00:33:52 -
[106] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Lain and Black Pedro Thank you for putting that into words here for others to read. You're quite welcome, although it's information easily found in any good guide on not getting ganked. I recommend the guide Feyd has on his blog. On a side note, it's an upper case i, not a lower case L. Not sure why everyone assumes it's a lower case L when it's far more typical for the first letter of a name to be capitalized. I blame CCP and their poor choice of font. Give us a font where an I doesn't look like a l, CCP. Correction noted. |
Zephris
Hattori Clan
7
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Posted - 2014.12.15 02:35:59 -
[107] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Zephris wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Zephris wrote:Quote:Nope, only takes one person to stop a gank. I am one person and have not been ganked once since I learned how to prevent it. The only person it takes to stop a gank is the pilot of the freighter or mining barge. Use some sense, and you're safe. Typical example of insane troll logic. How does a freighter pilot stops gankers from going after another freighter ? What you are talking about is forcing EVERYONE in highsec, that's over 70% of EVE population, to get enact anti-gank defenses. Why don't you come out and say you want to force everyone to live in nullsec. what a load of bull LOL. Typical example of carebear lack of logic. Let's glomp onto one bad idea, then utterly reject all ideas and suggestions that aren't that idea. Yes, a freighter pilot can stop a gank, his own. Yes, I do, indeed, want everyone in highsec to enact anti-gank defenses. I would love to see everyone in highsec use scouts to check for hostiles, bring webbing frigs to get slow movers off the gates faster, not use a freighter to move a few thousand m3 of modules, fit tank on your mining barge instead of fit for max greed, actually play the game rather than afk around, etc. This is true anti-ganker tactics, not sitting in Uedama whoring on Concord kills, thinking you make a difference. I fail to see how all of highsec enacting true anti-ganking defenses is a bad thing. You whine about how gankers don't want fair fights because they only pick on ships that don't/can't fight back. Next you whine because you can't attack them because of they could activate a kill right on you, all the while attacking targets with ecm who are going to die to Concord in a few seconds anyway. Personally, that sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. Maybe you should something try a little more like warfare and a little less like grand standing. Or stop being scared of the gankers and actually wardec them so you don't have to wait for them to start the gank before you can attack them. But wait, that would involve risk, and you can't have that. that's a textbook example of re-pungent BS. Wardeccing gankers ? are you seriously ? Why would you wardec someone who uses neutral bumpers and are otherwise -10 anyway ? Why don't you check my KB before spewing more of your trash ? I did check your killboard. Once a month for the last couple months you spend an hour or so in Uedama with a Falcon whoring on Concord kills. You think this makes you an elite PvPer? I may suck at PvP, but at least I have the balls to admit it, rather than rely on NPCs to do my killing for me. Show me one kill you have versus a known ganker where Concord wasn't involved. Hell, show me one kill versus a known ganker where you did even one point of damage. You have no clue at all what you speak of. It's nigh time you admit this, and stop these pathetic delusions you have that you matter in the least to anyone in this game. Read my signature.
Darwin, We have a WINNER. I am not going to even grace the astounding level of ignorance with a response. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2055
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Posted - 2014.12.15 02:46:59 -
[108] - Quote
why not? we've been doing it for you...
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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