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David Therman
University of Caille Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2014.12.13 14:13:36 -
[1] - Quote
Before I made this thread, I had a quick look to see if anyone had the same quandary as myself;
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4504746
So basically, I went ratting all over the place this morning, and got myself a couple of expeditions. The problem is, I would prefer to run them tomorrow at a quieter time, but the cut-off for them is borderline with when I would expect DT to end (15 mins or so).
Hence the reason I'm asking; has anyone recently had a situation where they were able to complete an expedition even if the entry log in the journal is no longer there. Or to put it another way, has anyone been able to run through an entire complex even if the expedition has ran out of time?
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Nightingale Actault
Big Richard Club Ghosts of Deep Space
73
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Posted - 2014.12.13 19:29:04 -
[2] - Quote
I could definitely be wrong here, as escalations aren't normally my thing. I believe however that you have up to 7 days to complete an escalation, so if you just received them this morning, you should be fine.
Edit: Some searching brought me here. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/NPTS_-_Combat_Sites_and_Escalation Which says expeditions time out after 24 hours. I would assume that each stage of the expedition has the same 24 hours after completing the previous. |
David Therman
University of Caille Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2014.12.13 22:01:11 -
[3] - Quote
You misunderstood me somewhat; I'm aware of the 24-hour count-down, I was just wondering if, for example, you entered the site with 30 mins remaining, then you would only have 30 minutes to complete it. I know it would be removed from the journal, and thus you would be unable to find it if you let it expire, but I was asking if that applies to the site as well without any leeway to complete it.
Assuming from the thread I found, this is probably the case, but I'm just asking if anyone has cut it close enough to find out. I'm not too fussed this time around (I gritted my teeth and hoped I wouldn't encounter any weekend warriors lurking around), but it would be nice to know for future reference. |
Nightingale Actault
Big Richard Club Ghosts of Deep Space
76
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Posted - 2014.12.13 22:25:40 -
[4] - Quote
Ah, I see now, apologies for the misunderstanding and hope a better answer comes around. |
SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
241
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Posted - 2014.12.13 22:53:44 -
[5] - Quote
You have 24 hours to complete the entire escalation chain once you first get it. The timer does not go back to 24 when you warp to the next escalation. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2591
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Posted - 2014.12.14 00:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
I am not sure what happens I you are in the middle of an escalation and the timer runs out.
My first thought is it would stay open until you finish the site.
But it very well could completely de-spawn the site. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
40958
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Posted - 2014.12.14 06:54:05 -
[7] - Quote
Unless CCP has just recently changed the escalation mechanics again, this is how it works.
When you get an escalation, you have 24 hrs to get to the location listed in the Journal and complete that site before the timer runs out. If that site escalates again, you have another 24 hrs to get to the next location and complete that site. If the timer runs out while at the site, the site will despawn even if occupied.
Expeditions gained from Cosmic Signatures (unrated 'Named' combat sites) have a chance to escalate up to 4 times.
Expeditions gained from Cosmic Anomalies (combat sites) have a chance to escalate 1 time, usually to a DED rated multi-room complex.
DED rated combat sites won't escalate.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9106
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Posted - 2014.12.14 07:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
24 hours is it.
I was in a Blood Raider Naval Shipyard (DED 10/10) and it despawned while i was in the 2nd (or 3) room because it had been exactly 24 hours since i got it from a Blood Haven. When CCP says "you got 24 hours to do this" they MEAN 24 hours lol. |
David Therman
University of Caille Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2014.12.14 11:19:05 -
[9] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:24 hours is it.
I was in a Blood Raider Naval Shipyard (DED 10/10) and it despawned while i was in the 2nd (or 3) room because it had been exactly 24 hours since i got it from a Blood Haven. When CCP says "you got 24 hours to do this" they MEAN 24 hours lol.
Alright, that's what I was expecting, I just wanted confirmation that this would be the case. Thank you very much (to you and everyone else) for the info. |
Bannorfista
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.01.04 01:11:27 -
[10] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:24 hours is it.
I was in a Blood Raider Naval Shipyard (DED 10/10) and it despawned while i was in the 2nd room (edit: 2nd room of 3) because it had been exactly 24 hours since i got it from a Blood Haven. When CCP says "you got 24 hours to do this" they MEAN 24 hours lol.
Back in my day warping to an escalation(Guristas Fleet Staging) gave you another 24 hours. |
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
776
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Posted - 2015.01.04 01:14:14 -
[11] - Quote
Bannorfista wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:24 hours is it.
I was in a Blood Raider Naval Shipyard (DED 10/10) and it despawned while i was in the 2nd room (edit: 2nd room of 3) because it had been exactly 24 hours since i got it from a Blood Haven. When CCP says "you got 24 hours to do this" they MEAN 24 hours lol. Back in my day warping to an escalation(Guristas Fleet Staging) gave you another 24 hours.
No longer.
I have also had one despawn while I was still inside it.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2219
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Posted - 2015.01.04 02:12:19 -
[12] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Bannorfista wrote:Back in my day warping to an escalation(Guristas Fleet Staging) gave you another 24 hours. No longer. I have also had one despawn while I was still inside it.
This. No more extending escalations by warping in. Shame, really. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2663
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Posted - 2015.01.04 07:38:02 -
[13] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Bannorfista wrote:Back in my day warping to an escalation(Guristas Fleet Staging) gave you another 24 hours. No longer. I have also had one despawn while I was still inside it. This. No more extending escalations by warping in. Shame, really. It was being horribly abused, and the best way to prevent abuse was to just disable it. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
43869
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Posted - 2015.01.04 18:01:37 -
[14] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: It was being horribly abused, and the best way to prevent abuse was to just disable it.
Definitely gotta disagree with you about that.
In my 6+ years of browsing these forums, I never once saw any threads posted complaining about the expedition timer resetting upon engaging warp to the site location.
The player could only do it for 7 days, then the journal entry and the site itself would be removed.
CCP's excuse for messing with it - it's been a long time bug which they've been meaning to fix. When asked why all of a sudden it was imperative to change it after 10 years, the answer was that players were using it to cargoscan the Overseer / Commander NPC's after downtime in order to get the best loot drop available.
In my opinion that's all bullsh*t. As an explorer I never once thought about nor heard about using a cargo-scan on the Overseer / Commander NPC. An easy fix to that is to simply make the Overseer's and Commander NPC's immune to cargo-scans. Same thing should be done to Data and Relic site containers as well.
The only reason the mechanic was changed was to help create more PvP targets.
The original mechanic allowed explorers to cloak and monitor the population activity in the system. Eventually there would be a lull in the activity allowing the explorer time to complete the site.
What the current mechanic does is place the explorer in a rush to not only get to the site location but to also complete the site as well. The amount of jumps, type of NPC's encountered, various in-game events (WarDec), safe spot creation, intel on residents in the system, etc, all contribute to the explorer being rushed for time. Let's not forget to include real life issues as well.
The whole intention is to make explorers become careless, take undue chances and hopefully make a mistake, thus making them an easier PvP target.
Yeah, that's my story and I'm sticking with it.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
786
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Posted - 2015.01.04 21:38:35 -
[15] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:[quote=Omnathious Deninard]
CCP's excuse for messing with it - it's been a long time bug which they've been meaning to fix. When asked why all of a sudden it was imperative to change it after 10 years, the answer was that players were using it to cargoscan the Overseer / Commander NPC's after downtime in order to get the best loot drop available.
In my opinion that's all bullsh*t. As an explorer I never once thought about nor heard about using a cargo-scan on the Overseer / Commander NPC. An easy fix to that is to simply make the Overseer's and Commander NPC's immune to cargo-scans. Same thing should be done to Data and Relic site containers as well.
DMC
This was their stated excuse. Like you, I had never considered cargo scanning the Overseer, but when I asked about this, about 90% of the other escalation runners in my alliance at the time laughed at me and told me I was doing it wrong all those years. Apparently, it was a very widespread practice. I always just ran the damn things as soon as the situation permitted.
I agree with you that Overseers, Commanders, Data cans, Relic cans, and the various other loot boxes should be immune to d-scan.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2220
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Posted - 2015.01.05 04:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:When asked why all of a sudden it was imperative to change it after 10 years, the answer was that players were using it to cargoscan the Overseer / Commander NPC's after downtime in order to get the best loot drop available.
In my opinion that's all bullsh*t. As an explorer I never once thought about nor heard about using a cargo-scan on the Overseer / Commander NPC. An easy fix to that is to simply make the Overseer's and Commander NPC's immune to cargo-scans. Same thing should be done to Data and Relic site containers as well.
Funny, I did occasionally scan overseers (specifically at the end of Powergrid escalations, which have a lousy drop rate to start with). While on a single occasion it did help me get blue loot (nothing special, but the first scan had nothing at all so I waited two days for something to pop up) I found the whole thing horribly laborious. I ended up keeping close to the final escalation point rather than wandering like I usually do and couldn't get it out of my head that I was missing better loot from the sites I never saw just by focusing all my efforts on the one.
So yeah. I did it. It worked. It just wasn't very efficient for a solo explorer.
Having said that? Yeah, just make overseers immune to cargo scans. It's simple and it would have achieved the same proposed effect without messing with all the upsides that explorers actually liked. Still unsure why they made the change. Making them easier targets doesn't quite ring true for me as it seems the risk averse will just drop the escalation rather than taking chances. Just dumb overall. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
787
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Posted - 2015.01.05 05:02:38 -
[17] - Quote
According to the folks I spoke with, the site where the cargo scan worked the best was Stage 3 of the "Appropriate Pirate Faction" Fleet Staging Point, because all you had to do was warp in at range, scan the FSP, and warp out. If there was decent loot, you came back with your carrier and ran the site in five minutes. If not, you scanned it again after the next down time. I could never be bothered to keep them all straight and just ran them as fast as I could.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
43923
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Posted - 2015.01.05 07:36:57 -
[18] - Quote
As an explorer I always ran the expeditions as soon as I got them and I always tried to complete them asap. Most of the time the last stage was located in an active system so I'd use the timer reset to make safe spots, do intel on players in local and wait for the combat probes to disappear from D-scan.
Whenever I would sit cloaked in system waiting for probes and local to die down, I'd constantly be thinking about all the other sites I was missing out on. Usually a few hrs later local would calm down and I'd complete the site as quickly as I could.
There were plenty of explorers who wouldn't do the last stage back when the expedition timer would reset. I bet that amount of players has doubled now due to the straight 24 hr timer.
And I still say that change was implemented strictly to help create more viable PvP targets.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2663
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Posted - 2015.01.05 09:03:34 -
[19] - Quote
DMC I don't believe you are wrong in that it was partly to increase the amount of PVP, but ships need to go BOOM! In order to make our loot worth anything.
As far as making deadspace overseers un-cargo scannable, players would instead just re-up the timer till they got a deadspace overseer. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
43931
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Posted - 2015.01.05 10:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yeah, maybe but highly doubtful.
The only way to get a new loot drop in the Overseer would be with downtime reset. At the most, a player could only keep the expedition site active for 7 days, after which the journal entry would be removed and the expedition site would de-spawn.
I don't think people would want to waste time and wait on a possible loot drop in expedition when there's plenty of other exploration sites to be completed.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
273
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Posted - 2015.01.05 14:40:50 -
[21] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:As an explorer I always ran the expeditions as soon as I got them and I always tried to complete them asap. Most of the time the last stage was located in an active system so I'd use the timer reset to make safe spots, do intel on players in local and wait for the combat probes to disappear from D-scan.
Whenever I would sit cloaked in system waiting for probes and local to die down, I'd constantly be thinking about all the other sites I was missing out on. Usually a few hrs later local would calm down and I'd complete the site as quickly as I could.
There were plenty of explorers who wouldn't do the last stage back when the expedition timer would reset. I bet that amount of players has doubled now due to the straight 24 hr timer.
And I still say that change was implemented strictly to help create more viable PvP targets.
DMC
Devs specifically indicated that the primary reason was to prevent people from cargo scanning the end boss and continually letting the escalation reset and respawn after downtime, in order to 'choose' better loot. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2221
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Posted - 2015.01.05 16:18:46 -
[22] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:As an explorer I always ran the expeditions as soon as I got them and I always tried to complete them asap. Most of the time the last stage was located in an active system so I'd use the timer reset to make safe spots, do intel on players in local and wait for the combat probes to disappear from D-scan.
Whenever I would sit cloaked in system waiting for probes and local to die down, I'd constantly be thinking about all the other sites I was missing out on. Usually a few hrs later local would calm down and I'd complete the site as quickly as I could.
There were plenty of explorers who wouldn't do the last stage back when the expedition timer would reset. I bet that amount of players has doubled now due to the straight 24 hr timer.
And I still say that change was implemented strictly to help create more viable PvP targets.
DMC Devs specifically indicated that the primary reason was to prevent people from cargo scanning the end boss and continually letting the escalation reset and respawn after downtime, in order to 'choose' better loot.
And as he pointed out, that's a pretty poor reason. Don't want cargo scanning? Make it not work. ******* with the ability to reset the timer has a whole series of knock-on effects that are disadvantageous -- as we all seem to agree.
Once again it seems to come down to the same thing though (these threads always do): it would make explorers very happy to be able to reset timers again with our without overseer scanning.
(As a total side note: it wasn't limited to 7 days. If you kept resetting every day you could extend out past 8 -- and that's just personal experience. At least one person claimed over a month of daily resets but that was well beyond the breaking point of my patience.) |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
43960
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Posted - 2015.01.05 23:37:49 -
[23] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote: (As a total side note: it wasn't limited to 7 days. If you kept resetting every day you could extend out past 8 -- and that's just personal experience. At least one person claimed over a month of daily resets but that was well beyond the breaking point of my patience.)
Well, I was speaking from my own experience.
Years ago I had an expedition which I kept resetting the timer on everyday. After 7 days the entry was no longer listed in my journal. The 24 hr timer hadn't expired since I was always checking it before hand. Even if it had expired, the location entry would still have been listed in the journal with text message that it had expired.
That's why I said 7 days total. If you think about it, active missions and mission offers only last for 7 days. Makes sense to me that the same parameters would be used for reset duration of expedition sites as well.
Oh well, doesn't really matter now anyway. People in regular exploration sites still cargoscan Overseer's, Commander NPC's, Data and Relic site containers. Since those sites don't have any active despawn timers the problem still exists. Players can still manipulate the system in order to get better loot drops showing after downtime reset.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Anaxis Muntaine
Quovis The Bastion
9
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Posted - 2015.02.25 15:47:05 -
[24] - Quote
Can someone confirm what happens to an escalated site (say, 6/10 from a Rally Point) if it was being run and half way through running said site, downtime occurred? Would the site still be there after downtime, or would it have de-spawned and lost forever in to the Eve ether? |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
48261
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Posted - 2015.02.25 23:09:55 -
[25] - Quote
Anaxis Muntaine wrote:Can someone confirm what happens to an escalated site (say, 6/10 from a Rally Point) if it was being run and half way through running said site, downtime occurred? Would the site still be there after downtime, or would it have de-spawned and lost forever in to the Eve ether? As long as the Expedition timer is still active, the site itself will still be there and in the same condition as it was just before Downtime hit.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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