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Asher Adoudel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.12.14 13:17:11 -
[1] - Quote
Forgive me if my subject heading sounds negative or the beginnings of someone trying to troll your game. I am an avid MMO player, but casual in that I don't stick to one game for more than a week or so before jumping back into a rotation. Right now I play some SWTOR, The Secret World, Star Trek Online, World of Tanks, Neverwinter, and Champions Online. I even play a little bit of Planetside 2 and Firefall, and Warframe. That's 9 online games if your not counting.
I have been itching for a massive scale online mech or space based game so I just downloaded EVE and Perpetuum Online which I understand is extremely similar.
Here is my question. Is everything in Eve disposable? My greatest reason to play a game is that I am consistently leveling up, or improving a character, or a group of skills. From what I have read, and I've even done the tutorial so far, there is nothing in Eve that is untouchable, or that I can count on increasing for the duration I play it. Is that a true or false statement. I get that I can get some character skills and then pay to keep some level of them after training, but is everything else able to be destroyed and/or lost?
If you can spend months saving for something or training some skill and then it is lost from PvP desctruction, where is the incentive to continue to repeat that process? I'm not worried about the free to play/buy to play/ subscribe to play model because if a game is worth it I'll pay the price to play it. I just can't for the life of me see the benefits of playing this game if everything I do is subject to loss. Is there anything in this game that cannot be destroyed and deleted from my inventory/account?
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
1890
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Posted - 2014.12.14 13:23:37 -
[2] - Quote
Skillpoint loss on death has been removed (apart from Tech 3 cruisers).
Otherwise yes. Your ships in EVE are tools to accomplish a goal, more often than not, a highly disposable tool.
It's worth it because this isn't your standard MMO where your success is measured by your level or your gear. Your success is measured by you. You set goals for yourself and try to achieve them, all while enjoying yourself. There are no quests, no story lines to complete, just you, your friends and a galaxy to make your own.
If you want to give EVE a fair shake, you'll have to approach it differently than any other MMO you've played thus far.
E: writing derps
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
GSLLC Recruitment
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Mo Skor
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.12.14 13:29:29 -
[3] - Quote
About 5 days ago they changed it to where you won't lose any skill points for any reason (no clone upgrades anymore, no skills lost in battle). And while all those shiny expensive ships and equipment look like a lot of fun, you always have to remember to 'never fly what you are afraid to lose'. This turns a lot of us into carebears in the beginning of our eve experience, but you will gradually be able to ramp up what isk you earn and what you are willing to lose. You can do a lot with skill training, I'm trying to depend more on skill training than expensive ships and fittings. My main is a 3m sp noob, for scale. |
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
284
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Posted - 2014.12.14 13:30:50 -
[4] - Quote
Asher:
First of all, welcome to New Eden. The biggest difference between EVE and other MMO's is that EVE presents a real risk/reward mechanism. The common phrase is "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose".
It is what keeps me playing day in and day out. The notion that I could conceivably take something from someone who has worked months to get it. And interesting enough, that I have to defend my assets just as vigorously.
It's certainly a departure from your other MMO experience, but I'd reckon it's the most involved and realistic social experience you'll find in online gaming. I would recommend joining a corporation or alliance that can help get you on your way and show you the many purposes and careers within EVE. I'll hazard a guess that there is something that you will fall in love with. The possibilities are endless.
Good luck, and I hope to see you flying around New Eden some more.
ISD Decoy
Lieutenant Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
5008
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Posted - 2014.12.14 13:47:29 -
[5] - Quote
Asher Adoudel wrote:Forgive me if my subject heading sounds negative or the beginnings of someone trying to troll your game. I am an avid MMO player, but casual in that I don't stick to one game for more than a week or so before jumping back into a rotation. Right now I play some SWTOR, The Secret World, Star Trek Online, World of Tanks, Neverwinter, and Champions Online. I even play a little bit of Planetside 2 and Firefall, and Warframe. That's 9 online games if your not counting.
I have been itching for a massive scale online mech or space based game so I just downloaded EVE and Perpetuum Online which I understand is extremely similar.
Here is my question. Is everything in Eve disposable? My greatest reason to play a game is that I am consistently leveling up, or improving a character, or a group of skills. From what I have read, and I've even done the tutorial so far, there is nothing in Eve that is untouchable, or that I can count on increasing for the duration I play it. Is that a true or false statement. I get that I can get some character skills and then pay to keep some level of them after training, but is everything else able to be destroyed and/or lost?
If you can spend months saving for something or training some skill and then it is lost from PvP desctruction, where is the incentive to continue to repeat that process? I'm not worried about the free to play/buy to play/ subscribe to play model because if a game is worth it I'll pay the price to play it. I just can't for the life of me see the benefits of playing this game if everything I do is subject to loss. Is there anything in this game that cannot be destroyed and deleted from my inventory/account?
Skills, once trained are yours (specially now that SP loss on insufficient clone has been removed).
Ships, are tools. If it's destroyed, it's gone. Period.
You will have to buy a new ship and fit and go out again. Which IMO is a whole lot better then most other MMO's where it's a click of a button and you get your stuff back. Which negates ANY risk or what so ever in your actions.
If we had a "graveyard" option in EVE, everybody in EVE would just dump a lot of money in the game, go pimp out their expensive ships and go balls deep at anything that moves. As losing really doesn't matter as I can just retrieve what I lost without an actual loss.
And as Azda said.
EVE is not your general, look I"m level "over 9000" character, I'm that good. Or look, I have the most expenive gear, I'm invincible.
Bigger ain't always better. More expensive ain't always better.
EVE's success is measured however you want to measure it (best killboard stats, most friends, most ISK in wallet, most succesfull SOV holder...what ever you want). EVE has a nice balance where a small "cheap" thing can kill a big "expensive" thing, if done right.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
529
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Posted - 2014.12.14 13:55:02 -
[6] - Quote
The social aspect can be painfully realistic. Because of the ruthless nature of the game, corps and alliances can be very closed societies.
"Tribes exist for themselves alone. An outsider, unless there is some obligation of hospitality, is not considered a human being in the same sense that a tribal member is and is not protected by the same notions of fellow humanity. Tribes are the original us-versus-them social entity."
You will find it extremely difficult to get into good corps, many of whom wouldn't want you, and many of whom would take advantage of you, steal from you or attack you simply because you are an outsider. There are many corps that may be suitable for learning basic game mechanics, but very few groups can help you successfully navigate the social and political aspects of the game or grant you effective protection from others outside your group.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
5008
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Posted - 2014.12.14 14:02:58 -
[7] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:The social aspect can be painfully realistic. Because of the ruthless nature of the game, corps and alliances can be very closed societies.
"Tribes exist for themselves alone. An outsider, unless there is some obligation of hospitality, is not considered a human being in the same sense that a tribal member is and is not protected by the same notions of fellow humanity. Tribes are the original us-versus-them social entity."
You will find it extremely difficult to get into good corps, many of whom wouldn't want you, and many of whom would take advantage of you, steal from you or attack you simply because you are an outsider. There are many corps that may be suitable for learning basic game mechanics, but very few groups can help you successfully navigate the social and political aspects of the game or grant you effective protection from others outside your group.
To find a good corp use this guide.
As for how to visually show the difference between EVE corps and other MMO guilds...check this.
But as Amyclas said.
EVE is a rudeless place. So people tend to not trust anybody by default.
Trust is the most valuable resource in EVE, even more valuable then PLEX or ISK. It is very hard to earn and ooh so easy to lose.
That said, EVE although a harsh and rude place is also quite a social game. But you get out of it what you put in it.
Act like a deuce, be prepared to be treated like one and that doors will not only stay closed but will also be locked and blockaded.
Be friendly and you can make a good bunch of friends that will help you out when in need. Or just provide some nice social content when you are gaming (people to talk to, people to laugh with, people to share experiences in game with).
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7451
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Posted - 2014.12.14 14:40:38 -
[8] - Quote
Will to Power.
Loss is real here, months worth of work can disappear in the instant you get complacent or arrogant about it. if you're willing to take the losses like a man you get to see how glorious even the smallest of victorys are
We are eve. it's about us and what we do to and for eachother that sets eve apart.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Memphis Baas
19
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Posted - 2014.12.14 15:45:34 -
[9] - Quote
As it's been said already, everything is disposable except your character; you build up the skills and they unlock more ships for you to be able to use, and use better.
The ships are tools for you to achieve "fun" with. Each ship is like a class that you become: Miner, DPS'er, Jammer, Tackler, Remote Repairer, Fleet Scout, Fleet buff / bonus provider, Hauler, etc. When you switch ships, you switch classes. The weapons and modules are like abilities that you can activate: weapons for DPS, jammers, tractor beams, cloaks, repair modules, etc.
When your ship gets destroyed, you incur some financial loss, and you're basically sent away from the combat area to go pick another (or the same) class / ship. If your pod gets destroyed, you may incur some more financial loss (if you have implants), and it's basically a forced "get away from here" teleport that the enemy causes so that you can't observe / spy on the combat area anymore.
Because this game does not have a themepark string of quests to lead you along some sort of story arc, the "fun" can be highly dependent on the quality of the friends you make. Inventing scenarios for yourself to play out doesn't do it for most people, but if you're part of a corp or alliance they typically have goals, scenarios, and organized fleet ops for you to participate in and enjoy.
That's basically the point of the game. The fun of PVP, PVE, strategies. |
Keno Skir
Let Me Seduce You
701
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Posted - 2014.12.14 16:25:12 -
[10] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:You will find it extremely difficult to get into good corps, many of whom wouldn't want you..
That's not really true mate.
If you conduct yourself like an adult you will find it fairly easy to find other like minded people. If you conduct yourself like a 4 year old ADHD sufferer you can always just join CODE like Amyclas ;)
(sorry couldn't resist, i actually have had some enjoyable encounters with a few CODE members too)
The moral is that EvE is like most other parts of your life. Don't be a moron, and you should hopefully not end up surrounded by them :D
[u]BUDDY TRIALS - 21days + ISK bonus + Starting Assistance :[/u]
https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=77facad8-d941-45ad-95bc-c1ec90919b6b&action=buddy
Feel free to contact me with questions :)
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Marus Sulla
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
26
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Posted - 2014.12.14 16:42:33 -
[11] - Quote
Welcome to EvE !
EvE allows you to set your own goals in many ways, which many new players find difficult to adjust to. Personally my goal is to see the destruction of the Amarr and my knife in their Empress , totally unachievable but I have had great fun trying for the last eight years . Once you GET eve you will not look back, just give it a chance.
Regards,
Marus
MM Recruitment is open.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=386561
http://masuataa.org/
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
779
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Posted - 2014.12.14 17:18:02 -
[12] - Quote
Also unlike other MMOs you don't discard your ship whenever you unlock a "better" one. Ships in EVE fill many different niches and are all balanced as such. Bigger ships aren't hands-down better. A frigate can kill a battleship by itself because large ships are vulnerable to small ones (think gnats buzzing around your face).
For me, it is the real loss which makes EVE bearable. Why play if you have nothing to lose? Fights are much more meaningful when the loser walks away with a real loss. If you are worried about losses crippling your progress then you are putting too much ISK on the field at once. As a general rule, if you can't buy several more of the ship and fittings you shouldn't be flying it into combat.
TLDRs
-Bigger isn't better -Don't fly what you can't afford to lose -Ships aren't gear
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
GSLLC is recruiting
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Nicholas Hydrictis Niadrian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.12.14 20:18:46 -
[13] - Quote
Fairly new myself so take my advice with a grain of salt, but from my experience having a fair bit of common sense and foresight of what repercussions your actions will have will help you quite a bit. Also as long it's an NPC hangar, your stuff will be safe in there.
Also: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Golden_Rules
My favorites:
Quote:-Slightly better stuff usually costs many times more as slightly worse stuff. Choose wisely. -Just because you can fly something doesn't mean you should. -If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Paranoia pays off here. Double-check everything.
"If we keep killing every other sentient being we meet, there will be nothing left in the universe but corpses and enemies." -Nameless Sage, Ring Runner
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7454
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Posted - 2014.12.14 20:31:43 -
[14] - Quote
it's also worth mentioning that a lot of stuff that would get you banned in other mmos is considered legitimate gameplay here.
Things like theft and scams are common here and if you fall for one (in-game now, irl is a different matter ) there's no recourse for you other than what you have the power to inact yourself.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6771
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Posted - 2014.12.14 21:08:44 -
[15] - Quote
Asher Adoudel wrote:If you can spend months saving for something or training some skill and then it is lost from PvP desctruction, where is the incentive to continue to repeat that process? To get better so you can "get revenge." (note: "revenge" can mean anything... not just blowing up the other guy).
In all honesty though... EVE is rare in that it is a "process game" where the end result is not really the goal. You can be one of the smartest, richest, most knowledgeable, and well connected player in EVE... and yet there will be a point in time where you will be caught with your pants down or just make a stupid mistake that costs you dearly. At that point, the only thing you can do is make a mental note of that "incident" and try again.
In a way... you have to have an appreciation for "rat races" where there is no exit and lots of activities to pit your wits against others.
Asher Adoudel wrote:I'm not worried about the free to play/buy to play/ subscribe to play model because if a game is worth it I'll pay the price to play it. I just can't for the life of me see the benefits of playing this game if everything I do is subject to loss. Is there anything in this game that cannot be destroyed and deleted from my inventory/account? The only things that are "off-limits" as far as gameplay is concerned are...
- skillpoints: recent changes to the game have made it so that you can never lose skillpoints (unless you are flying one particular ship type). NOTE: Don't fall into the mentality of "more skillpoints = better." I have been playing this game since 2009 and there have been times where I was crushed by a 6 month old player. Read this thread for more info on the skill system of EVE.
- stuff in your hanger: no one can forcibly take things out of your hanger except you. However, if you live in "outlaw" space (where systems and stations can be conquered) you can be "locked out" from your hanger (you will still have limited remote access though).
- your wallet: no one can forcibly remove ISK from your wallet. The only way someone can "get your ISK" is if they scam or ransom/blackmail you... both of which can be avoided with some basic common sense and situational awareness.
- friends: no game mechanic can stop you from accumulating allies and having friends help you. Even if everything else you own or have set up goes up in flames, any social network you are a part of will be there (for better or worse). Just be sure you can trust them (which takes time).
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Nicholas Hydrictis Niadrian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2014.12.14 21:19:04 -
[16] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:it's also worth mentioning that a lot of stuff that would get you banned in other mmos is considered legitimate gameplay here.
Not only legitimate game play, but advertising material!
"If we keep killing every other sentient being we meet, there will be nothing left in the universe but corpses and enemies." -Nameless Sage, Ring Runner
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
423
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Posted - 2014.12.14 22:38:04 -
[17] - Quote
Asher Adoudel wrote: Here is my question. Is everything in Eve disposable? My greatest reason to play a game is that I am consistently leveling up, or improving a character, or a group of skills. From what I have read, and I've even done the tutorial so far, there is nothing in Eve that is untouchable, or that I can count on increasing for the duration I play it. Is that a true or false statement. I get that I can get some character skills and then pay to keep some level of them after training, but is everything else able to be destroyed and/or lost?
If you can spend months saving for something or training some skill and then it is lost from PvP desctruction, where is the incentive to continue to repeat that process? I'm not worried about the free to play/buy to play/ subscribe to play model because if a game is worth it I'll pay the price to play it. I just can't for the life of me see the benefits of playing this game if everything I do is subject to loss. Is there anything in this game that cannot be destroyed and deleted from my inventory/account?
Before the latest patch you would lose some skillpoints if your clone wasn't updated to hold of your current SP. That no longer happens with the removal of clone grades, there are some ways still to lose skill points first are T3 cruisers where you lose points from T3 skills each time that you die while piloting a one. Other way to lose SP is a more abstract which is losing SP due to having subscription lapse or because of 'inefficient' remaps. Theory is that because you have played X hours you would in theory have a SP amount of 2700*X (2700SP per hour is the highest learning rate you can get) and if you have less then you have 'lost' SP.
Mainly you see this when bitter vets comment that "I would have 150mil SP if I hadn't done Y but I have only 130mil SP instead because of Z" |
Davey Talvanen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
6
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Posted - 2014.12.14 22:39:09 -
[18] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:The social aspect can be painfully realistic. Because of the ruthless nature of the game, corps and alliances can be very closed societies.
"Tribes exist for themselves alone. An outsider, unless there is some obligation of hospitality, is not considered a human being in the same sense that a tribal member is and is not protected by the same notions of fellow humanity. Tribes are the original us-versus-them social entity."
You will find it extremely difficult to get into good corps, many of whom wouldn't want you, and many of whom would take advantage of you, steal from you or attack you simply because you are an outsider. There are many corps that may be suitable for learning basic game mechanics, but very few groups can help you successfully navigate the social and political aspects of the game or grant you effective protection from others outside your group.
Lies. Anyone in Hero, especially the brave collective are very noob welcoming and open |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
514
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Posted - 2014.12.14 22:46:42 -
[19] - Quote
Asher Adoudel wrote:I just can't for the life of me see the benefits of playing this game if everything I do is subject to loss. Then EVE might not be a good game for you.
The fact that everything* you build can be taken from you and has to be defended is the very nature of EVE - it what makes the game what it is and it distinguishes it from other games (MMO or otherwise). It appeals to a subset of players - we know that it doesn't appeal to everyone and that is fine. (* OK not literally everything, there are some exceptions, but close enough.)
You can play EVE as you would play a shooter - i.e. just roam around and have fun (be it solo, with friends or with strangers in a public roam). No progression, but fun times to be had. Frigates are cheap enough to not require much grind or money to sustain such a play style, but you can do it with more expensive ships as well.
Or you can try to progress in EVE by acquiring something. What exactly to acquire is your choice: it could simply be ISK or a shiny ship, but also things like a ship collection, reputation, control over a market, a null-sec space empire, "your-choice-here". The fact that everything you build can be taken from you makes your achievements more valuable. You did not simply get there by playing long enough and grinding until you got it - you had to pay attention and protect and defend your progress, lest you'd have to start again. Some types of progress can be gained with casual play, while other requires more commitment (running a space empire might require more time than your day job), but all has to be protected. |
Slymah
Kabala Incorporated
262
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Posted - 2014.12.14 22:55:52 -
[20] - Quote
Eve in a nutshell is simply a game that puts the focus on the player rather than 'gear'.
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
2642
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Posted - 2014.12.15 00:04:01 -
[21] - Quote
EVE is about the stories. Your own, and the ones you share with other players.
The more you play, the more you accumulate stories.
And guess what? You'll never lose those, ever.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Justin Zaine
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
96
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Posted - 2014.12.15 03:37:15 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:If you conduct yourself like a 4 year old ADHD sufferer you can always just join CODE
HEY, that's so unfair and totally untrue I've also got OCD.
There is no such thing as a fair fight in Eve.
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Chiana Moro
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
22
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Posted - 2014.12.15 07:57:19 -
[23] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: We are eve. it's about us and what we do to and for eachother that sets eve apart.
This - very much. EVE is a real time social space simulation where everyone has a role to play. Even if it is as a target for empire gankers. As in life - so in EVE. Most things are allowed, unlike other games. Some things are punishable even if allowed, if not by the police (in-game Concord) then by other players.
So - if you feel uncomfortable with the notion that "almost anything goes, and you may lose your stuff" - then Eve isn't a game for you. Personally it is this that make Eve worth playing.
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
5017
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Posted - 2014.12.15 08:18:34 -
[24] - Quote
Ooh and the question is actually very easy to answer.
Quote:Trying to Understand the Purpose of EVE
Well, the purpose of EVE is to have as much fun as you can get while playing. It is a game after all
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
529
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Posted - 2014.12.15 08:40:25 -
[25] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Ooh and the question is actually very easy to answer. Quote:Trying to Understand the Purpose of EVE Well, the purpose of EVE is to have as much fun as you can get while playing. It is a game after all
"Anyone who tries to tell you that EVE is just a game does not treat it as just a game but wants you to treat it as such."
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7470
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Posted - 2014.12.15 09:34:29 -
[26] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:J'Poll wrote:Ooh and the question is actually very easy to answer. Quote:Trying to Understand the Purpose of EVE Well, the purpose of EVE is to have as much fun as you can get while playing. It is a game after all "Anyone who tries to tell you that EVE is just a game does not treat it as just a game but wants you to treat it as such." "My bum is itchy"
Am I doing it right?
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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