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Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
2150
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Posted - 2014.12.15 22:34:23 -
[1] - Quote
If you are in the career systems keep an eye on local. I drop in, now and again, and hand out free fitted frigates appropriate to the location.
This initiative is sponsored by older players who have donate isk and materials to give the new players a hand up.
Later we will be Bringing FC's in to offer sponsored fleets to low and null in ships provided by us. No risk and a chance of adventure.
If you want to know more there is a mailing list
Click on mail, bottom left hasd 'join mailing list' click that then enter in
Operation Magic School Bus
easy as pi
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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Eldwinn
SomeWhat SophiSticateD Shadow Cartel
168
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Posted - 2014.12.15 22:44:35 -
[2] - Quote
Timezones these are planned? I need to pipebomb someone. Also, is this not an Events thread more than anything? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7479
|
Posted - 2014.12.15 23:02:22 -
[3] - Quote
Eldwinn wrote:Timezones these are planned? I need to pipebomb someone. Also, is this not an Events thread more than anything? The brand newbros (I.e. trial ) can't post anywhere but here so this is appropriate.
+1 love it.
Will this be a regular thing?
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
2153
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Posted - 2014.12.16 00:48:30 -
[4] - Quote
Timezone is whenever I happen to be on, so it is not a set schedule I could apply to an event.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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Major Ream
1
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Posted - 2015.02.05 19:08:06 -
[5] - Quote
Bittervet checking in here.
I salute your intention to help noobs, that's excellent.
I have to challenge you on your space socialism, however.
Eve is a difficult game, which means that you get a sense of accomplishment when you achieve something - your first 1v1 win, your first billion in the market, and so on.
I remember a Merlin I used to fly, my first serious frigate, which was eventually very well fit and able to survive the static 1/10 and 2/10 plexes that dropped Worm blueprints and used to drop mods that are worth a fortune nowadays. This was an accomplishment, for me. Something I was able to be successful at, all by my self.
This is why I don't think socialist handouts to noobs are a good idea. It's better if they treasure their ships, at least in the beginning. It's better that they get a sense of accomplishment when they figure out how to fit the things. It's better if they think their ships matter, and take the time to figure out how to use EFT. It's better if they read up so they know wtf they're doing. It's better that they learn how to figure out how to fit a ship, instead of saving a fit someone hands them and not learning a thing.
You don't want to cater to the soft bigotry of low expectations; you want people to have to work, which means then they have accomplished something when they get it sorted.
--
Remember, Eve is about attitude as much as anything else. The tough love of explaining mistakes to noobs after you kill them is within the spirit of Eve. Handing out free frigates and saying "have fun kiddies" isn't, IMHO.
--
All that said, I acknowledge the learning cliff in Eve. I think Eve Uni and all the other efforts to explain the game are excellent. Frankly, you could probably do more good for noobs by showing up in local and typing "I'm a veteran player: AMA" - and having a file with links that explain various aspects of eve on hand, to cut and paste out of into local. |
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
699
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Posted - 2015.02.05 19:13:41 -
[6] - Quote
Major Ream wrote:Bittervet checking in here.
I salute your intention to help noobs, that's excellent.
I have to challenge you on your space socialism, however.
Eve is a difficult game, which means that you get a sense of accomplishment when you achieve something - your first 1v1 win, your first billion in the market, and so on.
I remember a Merlin I used to fly, my first serious frigate, which was eventually very well fit and able to survive the static 1/10 and 2/10 plexes that dropped Worm blueprints and used to drop mods that are worth a fortune nowadays. This was an accomplishment, for me. Something I was able to be successful at, all by my self.
This is why I don't think socialist handouts to noobs are a good idea. It's better if they treasure their ships, at least in the beginning. It's better that they get a sense of accomplishment when they figure out how to fit the things. It's better if they think their ships matter, and take the time to figure out how to use EFT. It's better if they read up so they know wtf they're doing. It's better that they learn how to figure out how to fit a ship, instead of saving a fit someone hands them and not learning a thing.
You don't want to cater to the soft bigotry of low expectations; you want people to have to work, which means then they have accomplished something when they get it sorted.
--
Remember, Eve is about attitude as much as anything else. The tough love of explaining mistakes to noobs after you kill them is within the spirit of Eve. Handing out free frigates and saying "have fun kiddies" isn't, IMHO.
--
All that said, I acknowledge the learning cliff in Eve. I think Eve Uni and all the other efforts to explain the game are excellent. Frankly, you could probably do more good for noobs by showing up in local and typing "I'm a veteran player: AMA" - and having a file with links that explain various aspects of eve on hand, to cut and paste out of into local.
Ships are disposable tools. The sooner new players learn that the more they will enjoy Eve.
Let the newbies lose ships without having to worry about replacing them. |
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY F0RCED ENTRY.
112
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Posted - 2015.02.05 19:44:09 -
[7] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:Major Ream wrote:Bittervet checking in here.
I salute your intention to help noobs, that's excellent.
I have to challenge you on your space socialism, however.
Eve is a difficult game, which means that you get a sense of accomplishment when you achieve something - your first 1v1 win, your first billion in the market, and so on.
I remember a Merlin I used to fly, my first serious frigate, which was eventually very well fit and able to survive the static 1/10 and 2/10 plexes that dropped Worm blueprints and used to drop mods that are worth a fortune nowadays. This was an accomplishment, for me. Something I was able to be successful at, all by my self.
This is why I don't think socialist handouts to noobs are a good idea. It's better if they treasure their ships, at least in the beginning. It's better that they get a sense of accomplishment when they figure out how to fit the things. It's better if they think their ships matter, and take the time to figure out how to use EFT. It's better if they read up so they know wtf they're doing. It's better that they learn how to figure out how to fit a ship, instead of saving a fit someone hands them and not learning a thing.
You don't want to cater to the soft bigotry of low expectations; you want people to have to work, which means then they have accomplished something when they get it sorted.
--
Remember, Eve is about attitude as much as anything else. The tough love of explaining mistakes to noobs after you kill them is within the spirit of Eve. Handing out free frigates and saying "have fun kiddies" isn't, IMHO.
--
All that said, I acknowledge the learning cliff in Eve. I think Eve Uni and all the other efforts to explain the game are excellent. Frankly, you could probably do more good for noobs by showing up in local and typing "I'm a veteran player: AMA" - and having a file with links that explain various aspects of eve on hand, to cut and paste out of into local. Ships are disposable tools. The sooner new players learn that the more they will enjoy Eve. Let the newbies lose ships without having to worry about replacing them.
Ships also cost ISK and shouldnt be used as a disposable tool to those who do not buy plexes with real money every week. New players will learn to enjoy Eve if they understand the necessity to balance Risk with Reward. As much as its hilarious to see a New player in a 3 billion isk Rattlesnake doing missions in lowsec, if that person was in my corp, i would kill him myself.
Theres nothing wrong with noobs thinking that losing ships is part of the game, and that they shouldnt be angry for more than a second about losing a ship. But there is something wrong with noobs thinking that it doesnt matter if they lose their ships in any manner, stupid or not, because theyll just be provided a new one, with no cost to them.
I dont want a noob to be crying every time he loses a merlin. But I also dont want him to recklessly lose a talos or a Myrmidon. And the best way to do this is for them to earn their ships. If they know how hard it is to get a ship, they know to be careful about not losing it. |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4226
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Posted - 2015.02.05 19:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Awesome initiative! Hope it goes well! Good luck on your roams!
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
2444
|
Posted - 2015.02.05 20:03:04 -
[9] - Quote
Major Ream wrote:Bittervet checking in here.
I salute your intention to help noobs, that's excellent.
I have to challenge you on your space socialism, however.
Eve is a difficult game, which means that you get a sense of accomplishment when you achieve something - your first 1v1 win, your first billion in the market, and so on.
Thanks
In answer to the idea that handing out ships will ruin the game or the sense of loss? I take it you are also against Ship Replacement Programs as well, then?
A difference in philosophy is acceptable in this game and I have had some newbies say that they would rather earn their way up. I compliment them on their goals and wish them the best.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
2444
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Posted - 2015.02.05 20:16:43 -
[10] - Quote
At this point we have handed out lots of Frigates and Destroyers. Mainly (as I said) to encourage them to take a chance or two or to help them get past that first earning speed bump of the game. While a mill or two of ship is HUGE to them you know that in the long run this is a drop in the bucket. So I do not see it as giving a false impression of loss, just getting them going on the bike (parents who have taught a child to ride know what I mean) They will crash, later but we want to get them up to speed.
Odd anecdotal statistic. When in a career system I get approximately 5% of the people in local responding. I cannot say whether the others are nervous or just not watching.
I want to thank people like Otto and others for recent donations as well as folks who contract me ships and such. I spend as much time in Jita, Amarr, Dodixie and Rens doing fittings for delivery as I do in the career systems.
I also invite any organizations/corps who are welcoming newbies in to contact me. Mynxee will vouch for the fact that I do send them along. Let me know what your focus is and that you will help the newbies LEARN. If you are just getting them to swell ranks and have the 'here's a Rubics cube . . . ' attitude I will take issue with sending anyone your way.
I started the project because of the This Is Eve video influx but it has grown legs and is now carrying me wildly forward. I am hanging on and enjoying the ride.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
332
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Posted - 2015.02.05 21:23:31 -
[11] - Quote
Eldwinn wrote:Timezones these are planned? I need to pipebomb someone. Also, is this not an Events thread more than anything? eve doesn't seem to be a "just the tip" kind of game so this response seems appropriate. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
332
|
Posted - 2015.02.05 21:33:29 -
[12] - Quote
Major Ream wrote:Bittervet rant. I've tried getting people into this game before and worked with many newbros over the years. I can agree that handing things over to them and doing all the work for them can and will ruin the game for them.
However I've also noticed that left to one's own many players stick in high sec and mine or run missions for a year because they are afraid to PvP without 20 million skill points and a faction fit T2 ship or don't think they will be of much help since they don't know much about the game.
I think there is a happy medium in which you can throw a newbro a free ship and say see you can be valuable to a fleet even from day 1 and give them a taste of what's to come and also not get them locked into the fear of losing a ship that having to grind all your own isk from day gets most players.
When I first started playing this game I was in a corp that would let me mine in a cruiser and get the same cut as someone mining in a hulk on mining ops. Without that help I would not be here today. You leave new players on their own with a 21 day trial and google and very few will make it to day 3 much less long timer players. |
voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
335
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Posted - 2015.02.05 23:15:56 -
[13] - Quote
sounds like a good initiative to me.
I'm looking forward to Major Reams reply as to why SRP programs aren't destroying the game because of ~reasons~
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
46857
|
Posted - 2015.02.06 07:05:32 -
[14] - Quote
voetius wrote: sounds like a good initiative to me.
I'm looking forward to Major Reams reply as to why SRP programs aren't destroying the game because of ~reasons~
SRP (Ship Replacement Program) is something player corporations do to help entice their members to be more active, usually for WarDec's. In my opinion that in itself is a good thing since it shows the corp cares about it's members.
I believe the reason Major Ream didn't mention that is because it doesn't pertain to brand new players in NPC corps located in starter systems.
While I applaud and commend Mike Azariah for his intentions and the contributions to new players, I also understand and agree with the points of concern that Major Ream has brought up. Compared to how it was in the past, it's a lot easier now for new players to gain ISK so I don't see that as a problem. In my opinion new players actually suffer more from lack of info than lack of ISK.
Hopefully 'Operation Magic School Bus' is more of a random occurrence that happens every once in a while instead of being a recurring occurrence that happens quite often. If it's the latter then that would make it nothing more than a scheduled in-game event.
To make sure that doesn't happen, maybe have it be more seasonal, such as occurring mainly in the summer time when there's a greater influx of new players to the game. Could also do surprise appearances in the various starter systems during the Holidays.
Anyway, +1 for a good interesting project.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
2453
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Posted - 2015.02.06 07:14:49 -
[15] - Quote
I am too chaotic to keep to a schedule though I am around a fair amount.
and it is always ships, I am not a fan of handing out isk. (except in unusual cases)
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers Soviet-Union
330
|
Posted - 2015.02.06 17:11:25 -
[16] - Quote
This is a great idea and I've spoken with Mike about it on a few podcasts.
I also donated 1b to the cause, please do help out as well!
EVE Online and Multiboxing
Legacy of a Capsuleer Podcast
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Jack Corenson
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.03.20 12:22:46 -
[17] - Quote
Just came across this as a returning (good as new) player from the High Drag podcast. Anything I learned, I've forgotten after a three-year break, so was going to do the tutorial missions again on this toon (if that's possible).
Hope we can cross paths, am very much enjoying New Eden again, overwhelmed as I am! |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 14:44:04 -
[18] - Quote
Awesome! This is just the sort of thing I've been advocating for in the "why do players stay in npc corps" thread in order to get players new to EVE engaged with the player base and the game. This sort of thing, done by CAS members, is what got me hooked a year ago.
Speaking of CAS...
Quote:I also invite any organizations/corps who are welcoming newbies in to contact me. Mynxee will vouch for the fact that I do send them along. Let me know what your focus is and that you will help the newbies LEARN. If you are just getting them to swell ranks and have the 'here's a Rubics cube . . . ' attitude I will take issue with sending anyone your way.
Are you aware of the things CAS does? |
kitsune Sabre
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.03.20 16:19:05 -
[19] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:I am too chaotic to keep to a schedule though I am around a fair amount.
and it is always ships, I am not a fan of handing out isk. (except in unusual cases)
m I highly recommend not planning something you cannot dedicate time to it just makes you look like an idiot |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
94
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Posted - 2015.03.20 16:29:53 -
[20] - Quote
Major Ream wrote:This is why I don't think socialist handouts to noobs are a good idea. It's better if they treasure their ships, at least in the beginning. It's better that they get a sense of accomplishment when they figure out how to fit the things. It's better if they think their ships matter, and take the time to figure out how to use EFT. It's better if they read up so they know wtf they're doing. It's better that they learn how to figure out how to fit a ship, instead of saving a fit someone hands them and not learning a thing.
(horrified)Nooooooo!(/horrified)
Treasuring ships leads to being afraid to lose ships. Being afraid to lose ships leads to not undocking and eventually unsubbing at worst. Not healthy for the game nor the player.
The sense of accomplishment a new player needs to get is not about, for example, knowing the difference between a point and a scram and when to fit one or the other (I didn't know about the difference until well into my PvP career) - rather, they should get a sense of accomplishment from being a valued part of a team.
You're basically telling new players "Don't PvP until you know how to PvP - of which ship fitting is an important aspect." No, new players learn to PvP by doing PvP. Which is much more effectively done by giving the new player a properly fitted ship to learn with, rather than them bringing, say, a hull-and-shield-tanked Catalyst with two each of different ranged projectile guns they spent an hour in a Venture mining in order to pay for, and especially more effectively done than telling the new player with such a ship to stay home and read web pages until they figure out fitting. |
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8021
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Posted - 2015.03.20 19:55:15 -
[21] - Quote
Some seriously ****** up posts from people that should know better in here.
The absolute best way to introduce new players into PVP is to use the same philosophy as every large corp and major alliance. That being a ship replacement policy to help them get over their initial fear of losing ships.
This is a great initiative, Mike. Feel free to drop me a mail or post a link where I can donate some ships or ISKies to the cause.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5993
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Posted - 2015.03.20 20:00:17 -
[22] - Quote
Sure. Showering a new player with multiple hundreds of millions in either ISK or items is bad (leads to spoiled player syndrome with a possible side effect called entitlement).
But giving a new player who already has to worry about how to get the ISK for the nwext skillbook and modules a handful of basic fitted frigates or destroyers is a great idea to get them involved into EVE's gameplay.
Keep this going Mike and if I can assist in any shape or form.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3504
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Posted - 2015.03.20 20:04:46 -
[23] - Quote
kitsune Sabre wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:I am too chaotic to keep to a schedule though I am around a fair amount.
and it is always ships, I am not a fan of handing out isk. (except in unusual cases)
m I highly recommend not planning something you cannot dedicate time to it just makes you look like an idiot
Easy there tiger. Mike is a CSM (Council of Stellar Management) representative. In addition to whatever his RL duties are, he spends 10 to 20 hours a week working and communicating with CCP on behalf of the playerbase. Feel free to disagree with his views on the game and it's direction, but ease up. He's trying to proactively help out new players, such as yourself.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
GSLLC Recruitment
Join Today!
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Brawlers Inc.
1555
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Posted - 2015.03.21 15:01:27 -
[24] - Quote
It was kinda cool to see Mike doing this in game while I was in a starter system helping out a new player that had just been the target of a gank attempt. Keep it up Mike!
New Player Placement Specialist and Scope Project FC.
Contact me for a free consultation.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
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Koebmand
Silverflames
36
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Posted - 2015.03.22 19:31:12 -
[25] - Quote
I think Mike's efforts is a good help on showing new players how large scale logistics are a part of Eve.
A very common question from new players is "How do I move my items to a new system?".
At their skill and resource level, it usually ends up with having to fly each ship, then pod/rookie ship back and pick up the next. Showing them how it works once you are a bit more organized is a good thing in my opinion (for any new players reading this, just don't move everything. You will likely leave that new place soon, change what ship you use, discover a new module you want instead or unlock something with skills).
I also think its a good thing to flash a ton of ships at the new players, show them it is not always a large time investment as well as nearly all your ISK to get a new ship when you lose one. With a little organization you easily get replacement ships, and once a little into the game, you have many ships at once - and they are easy enough to get that you can even just give them away!
I have gotten good feedback from just giving people ships too, like "Thank you, I ended up getting it blown up, but it was nice to see and try that finished fit" fx. Don't think I have ever had someone I gave a ship come and ask for a second to replace the first (aka turn into a useless beggar / expect instant free replacements).
Those I have seen of Mike's fits are nice and simple, something the new player can see, try - and are likely to be able to replace. Combined with the Career Agents that let them put together their own ships, I think it gives a very good basis for getting into ship fitting and replacement, while also showing that it gets easier a long the way.
Just telling them to go mine for 5-10 hours in a Rookie Ship when they lose their first frig - is gonna make it seem like a very large set back every time they lose a fight, scaring them out of risking ships - and also gives that false impression that mining is the only way to make money in Eve.
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Cellini Benvenuto
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2015.03.23 16:38:24 -
[26] - Quote
From a newbies point of view, as someone who was on the receiving end of a gift, my two cents:
I don't think a gift automatically 'spoils' new players. For me, the gift did two things:
1. All of a sudden, I had this realization that I wasn't alone. Eve can be a little overwhelming when you start out. Perhaps those who come from other MMOs can handle it better, but for me, this is my first MMO, and that was the moment I really realized that Eve's an MMO, there are acquaintances and friends to be made. The thank you note I sent led to a small conversation with advice that was worth way more than the donation, and all in all, that was the moment I decided that I wanted to stay and stick around, no matter how hard Eve is.
2. It eased up the 'I have to earn ISK' pressure. I was just starting out. I wasn't even sure how you make money in Eve (okay, I'm still not sure!!!). I had limited time in which I could either grind money or actually find things I might enjoy. The gift helped me find the latter more rapidly, and in turn, that helped me make more money than I would have.
Would I have stuck around without that gesture? Yes. Would I have found ways to have fun? Yes. But that kind of gesture goes a long way into making you feel welcome into eve-verse. It can be a ship, a bit of money, and perhaps most important of all: helpful advice; but kindness from a stranger is perhaps the most attractive part of joining an online community, and in turn, you end up doing the same for someone else.
I think Eve's a very complex game. Any help within your first week or so goes a long, long way as you are getting used to a lot of different and new ideas that come with a complete sandbox and a player-run economy. |
Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
2732
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Posted - 2015.05.01 21:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Small bump and a reminder that Operation Magic School Bus is coming up on 6 months in operation at the end of May.
wow
Thank you to all the donors and welcome to all the new folks I have met along the way. Here is to another six months and more!
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Solecist Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
22776
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Posted - 2015.05.02 07:29:45 -
[28] - Quote
Mike ... I can do suicide ganking roams.
Of course noobs won't add any relevant dps ... ... but that's not the point.
Takes fifteen or so minutes to skill for a role in that fleet.
It teaches people situational awareness and how others fit their ships. People also get to see lots of shiptypes and learn to understand why autopiloting is bad.
Furthermore can I provide a proper, thorough, tutorial about how to create a perfect instaundock bookmark.
If you are interested, tell me and contact me ingame when I'm around.
I'd also like to connect this with PLEX4GOOD. NOOBS4GOOD.
Helping raise money for those who need it ... ... and giving them a feeling of connection.
Thanks!
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
113
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Posted - 2015.05.02 21:49:07 -
[29] - Quote
This isn't such a great idea. Insulate people from ship loss, and they won't be able to handle it later when they have to stand on their own two feet and eat a big loss. Kind of like how childhood is being extended into the 20's in america from permissive parenting and run amok pop armchair psych. The longer you coddle people, the worse they have it when they have to stand on their own. Not everyone will know the rule to not fly what you cant afford to lose. They'll be insulated by free ships instead of learning to minimize their own risk.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3656
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Posted - 2015.05.02 22:10:23 -
[30] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:This isn't such a great idea. Insulate people from ship loss, and they won't be able to handle it later when they have to stand on their own two feet and eat a big loss. Kind of like how childhood is being extended into the 20's in america from permissive parenting and run amok pop armchair psych. The longer you coddle people, the worse they have it when they have to stand on their own. Not everyone will know the rule to not fly what you cant afford to lose. They'll be insulated by free ships instead of learning to minimize their own risk. A person has to be exceptionally stupid and or weak of character to somehow be 'insulated from ship loss' from getting a few cheap frigates for a fleet or two. Your argument would make more sense if it was CCP giving out free stuff. If that were the case, people would be expecting it to always be easy to get another ship. In this situation, we have a proactive effort from community members to help new players get into fleets and shoot stuff. I doubt many (or any) of the newbies getting free ships from this effort are going to be expecting ships to magically materialize throughout their EVE careers. It's very clear that they're getting help from the community, not the game itself, that's an important distinction. That's probably the best part of this effort, the ships and all that are nice sure, but I'd argue the greatest benefit is showing EVE newbies that there is a large community here willing to help each other out, hopefully encouraging them to join groups, or even make their own. I think you're mistaking support, with 'coddling'.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
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