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Tyrel Toov
Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies.
199
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Posted - 2014.12.18 03:29:51 -
[91] - Quote
hush, Naups. The adults are bickering like children just fine. No need for you to get involved too.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
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Kellie Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin
4350
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Posted - 2014.12.18 03:49:53 -
[92] - Quote
Kellie pings Nauplius's neocom repeatedly.
Pleeeeeeeease Mista Nauplyous.
Noob Alt | Special Dusette | Silly Robot Arm
Collect all 4 Dusette Action Figures (Now available in Thukker Tribe Edition)
Generic Edition | *NEW Fruit Salad Pleasure Hub Edition
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
4358
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Posted - 2014.12.18 04:14:06 -
[93] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:I was more less responding to Erin. Inflexability should be met with inflexability. If there's no room for compromise there's no reason for striving for peace. Believe me when I say majority of the points you made were clear and on my conscience when I said that, however we shouldn't forget the reasons why we fight to only make peace for ourselves and doom our children.
As far as not having any place to bring them when we finally free our brothers, when we were finally free, we built ourselves back up from nothing. If what you said were the case, we would be starting from a much better point then that. Whatever hardship we would face, we would overcome. We have before, we most certainly will again.
Inflexibility should be met with inflexibility. That sounds like a recipe for no progress to me. Besides which, you can say a lot about Sarum's administration but you can't say she's inflexible. She released slaves. Nobody seems terribly interested in WHY or in how she could be persuaded to do so again.
I'll say that again. She released, without negotiation or pretext, millions of slaves to the Republic. Nobody seems terribly interested, however. Most of the Matari I've discussed it with have claimed that the Republic's poor handling of this release of slaves proves that it was, in fact, a cunning ruse to bring down the Republic by giving it a taste of what it wants. Okay, then.
Also, you did not 'build yourselves back up from nothing'. Much of the territory that you took was formerly Amarrian. You seized those systems intact. You were also heavily funded by the Gallente Federation. There is no certainty that you could manage a huge influx of former-slaves who don't necessarily share your culture or religion.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
237
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Posted - 2014.12.18 05:15:46 -
[94] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Deitra Vess wrote:I was more less responding to Erin. Inflexability should be met with inflexability. If there's no room for compromise there's no reason for striving for peace. Believe me when I say majority of the points you made were clear and on my conscience when I said that, however we shouldn't forget the reasons why we fight to only make peace for ourselves and doom our children.
As far as not having any place to bring them when we finally free our brothers, when we were finally free, we built ourselves back up from nothing. If what you said were the case, we would be starting from a much better point then that. Whatever hardship we would face, we would overcome. We have before, we most certainly will again. Inflexibility should be met with inflexibility. That sounds like a recipe for no progress to me. Besides which, you can say a lot about Sarum's administration but you can't say she's inflexible. She released slaves. Nobody seems terribly interested in WHY or in how she could be persuaded to do so again. I'll say that again. She released, without negotiation or pretext, millions of slaves to the Republic. Nobody seems terribly interested, however. Most of the Matari I've discussed it with have claimed that the Republic's poor handling of this release of slaves proves that it was, in fact, a cunning ruse to bring down the Republic by giving it a taste of what it wants. Okay, then. Also, you did not 'build yourselves back up from nothing'. Much of the territory that you took was formerly Amarrian. You seized those systems intact. You were also heavily funded by the Gallente Federation. There is no certainty that you could manage a huge influx of former-slaves who don't necessarily share your culture or religion.
I will argue that the Empress didn't do this without any pretext. These were indoctrinated slaves, still wracked with Vitoxin afflictions! We had to deal with Scripture-thumping door-to-door missionaries in the crack of dawn who wouldn't leave the clan commons even after five hours of heckling! Worse, they had this problem where they will suddenly seize up, flop about and spill the communal coffee all over the carpet out of the blue! They are also utterly rubbish at fixing or doing anything useful other than preaching semi-coherently and seizing up once a week!
Can't even train them to do anything useful either! They are pretty resistant to it! Something about 'Pagan rubbish'.
- Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5182
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Posted - 2014.12.18 06:15:11 -
[95] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Only when you admit that deep down you're just like me. I already know it, Rodj. I know I'm just like you. And I know that the only thing that makes me better than you is my ability to admit to myself that I'm just like you.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
431
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Posted - 2014.12.18 12:07:41 -
[96] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:The idea of the entirety of humanity sharing one culture is pretty damn horrific regardless of how it's achieved. Talk to Stitcher about his opinion on cultural homogenisation sometime.
Andreus,
Honestly, though I admit I'm irresponsibly playing devils advocate to a certain extent, a part of me is almost inclined to disagree with you there. If you think about it from a purely pragmatic standpoint (or perhaps even a somewhat deific one), the idea of a truly homogenized human culture is at least as wonderful as it is horrifying - Most of the clusters civilizations that achieved spaceflight on their own terms got a taste of it in the years before the illusion was shattered by first contact with other races, and there's a reason they're usually called golden ages. The idea of a world where people not only don't fight, but have no reason to ever fight again, is a concept so wonderful that in the modern day it almost seems fanastical.
The problem is less the idea itself, and more the horrible sacrifices, both willing and unwilling, one would have to make to realize it - since each culture is obviously a unique and precious thing to all of it's followers, with it's own objectively compelling advantages. I fully admit I'm no exception. Unless humanity decides to draw straws on it, any means to reach it is going to be insidious at best, and absolutely nightmarish at worst.
I digress, though. I see what you're trying to say, but I still don't really think it would be a terrible thing. Speaking realistically, it's obvious to anyone who doesn't believe in a literal divine mandate of fate that the idea of the Amarr converting the cluster by velvet is a non-starter; It's had a hundred years to do it already, and the only place it's caught on notably is in pockets in the Federation, and I very much doubt the Theology Council has a high opinion of how it's metamorphosed to be compelling in that environment. Even in the State, the Empires closest ally, when you hear "Amarr Missionary" it's usually as a punchline, or failing that, an angry complaint.
So what's the harm in them trying? Most religions have practically unfulfillable mandates, and still manage to function in wider society just fine, so long as they don't have a sword in their hand to go with it. |
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
913
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Posted - 2014.12.18 12:10:14 -
[97] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Tuulinen for Empress.
That would be pretentious. I vote we call him Duchess.
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
4359
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Posted - 2014.12.18 14:29:56 -
[98] - Quote
Desiderya wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Tuulinen for Empress. That would be pretentious. I vote we call him Duchess. Now look what you've done.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Darc Kaahar
The Gaping Maw The Periphery
62
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Posted - 2014.12.18 15:09:06 -
[99] - Quote
Wood -- the strongest substance known to man. |
Claudia Osyn
The Scope Gallente Federation
990
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:55:47 -
[100] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Desiderya wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Tuulinen for Empress. That would be pretentious. I vote we call him Duchess. Now look what you've done. Now you just need a proper dress and you'll be all set. I'm thinking something in green....
The lack of money is the root of all evil.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
4359
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:17:55 -
[101] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Desiderya wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Tuulinen for Empress. That would be pretentious. I vote we call him Duchess. Now look what you've done. Now you just need a proper dress and you'll be all set. I'm thinking something in green....
Whoa, will that work with my pale complexion?
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Claudia Osyn
The Scope Gallente Federation
990
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:24:42 -
[102] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Desiderya wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Tuulinen for Empress. That would be pretentious. I vote we call him Duchess. Now look what you've done. Now you just need a proper dress and you'll be all set. I'm thinking something in green.... Whoa, will that work with my pale complexion? I think a nice pastel green would suit you just fine, with the proper application of cosmetics you would be turning heads in no time...
The lack of money is the root of all evil.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
4359
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:03:07 -
[103] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote: I think a nice pastel green would suit you just fine, with the proper application of cosmetics you would be turning heads in no time...
Wow. I'm amazed you know precisely the right dress colour for a stocky Civire male in his mid-twenties to wear for social occasions. I would have thought this was a fairly niche subject.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Anslo
Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies.
25682
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:32:00 -
[104] - Quote
She's good at what she does.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5183
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:45:27 -
[105] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote: I think a nice pastel green would suit you just fine, with the proper application of cosmetics you would be turning heads in no time...
Wow. I'm amazed you know precisely the right dress colour for a stocky Civire male in his mid-twenties to wear for social occasions. I would have thought this was a fairly niche subject. This certainly explains the vast swathes of fanfiction I've been pulling off the surface web of Guristas information networks lately...
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Claudia Osyn
The Scope Gallente Federation
992
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Posted - 2014.12.18 20:11:08 -
[106] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote: I think a nice pastel green would suit you just fine, with the proper application of cosmetics you would be turning heads in no time...
Wow. I'm amazed you know precisely the right dress colour for a stocky Civire male in his mid-twenties to wear for social occasions. I would have thought this was a fairly niche subject. What can I say, all Gallente are born with a supurb sense of fashion. Now, what kind of shoes to put you in.....?
The lack of money is the root of all evil.
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Tyrel Toov
Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies.
209
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Posted - 2014.12.18 21:29:07 -
[107] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote: I think a nice pastel green would suit you just fine, with the proper application of cosmetics you would be turning heads in no time...
Wow. I'm amazed you know precisely the right dress colour for a stocky Civire male in his mid-twenties to wear for social occasions. I would have thought this was a fairly niche subject. What can I say, all Gallente are born with a supurb sense of fashion. Now, what kind of shoes to put you in.....? Six inch stilettos, red.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
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Zanzibar Heroshima
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
44
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Posted - 2014.12.18 21:34:50 -
[108] - Quote
Tyrel Toov wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote: I think a nice pastel green would suit you just fine, with the proper application of cosmetics you would be turning heads in no time...
Wow. I'm amazed you know precisely the right dress colour for a stocky Civire male in his mid-twenties to wear for social occasions. I would have thought this was a fairly niche subject. What can I say, all Gallente are born with a supurb sense of fashion. Now, what kind of shoes to put you in.....? Six inch stilettos, red.
With the green dress? Surely some high gloss black would be in order. |
Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
50
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Posted - 2014.12.18 21:38:01 -
[109] - Quote
Zanzibar Heroshima wrote:Tyrel Toov wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote: I think a nice pastel green would suit you just fine, with the proper application of cosmetics you would be turning heads in no time...
Wow. I'm amazed you know precisely the right dress colour for a stocky Civire male in his mid-twenties to wear for social occasions. I would have thought this was a fairly niche subject. What can I say, all Gallente are born with a supurb sense of fashion. Now, what kind of shoes to put you in.....? Six inch stilettos, red. With the green dress? Surely some high gloss black would be in order.
Oh God forgive these people their fashion faux pas...... I can't bear to watch.
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Claudia Osyn
The Scope Gallente Federation
995
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Posted - 2014.12.18 21:38:06 -
[110] - Quote
Tyrel Toov wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote: I think a nice pastel green would suit you just fine, with the proper application of cosmetics you would be turning heads in no time...
Wow. I'm amazed you know precisely the right dress colour for a stocky Civire male in his mid-twenties to wear for social occasions. I would have thought this was a fairly niche subject. What can I say, all Gallente are born with a supurb sense of fashion. Now, what kind of shoes to put you in.....? Six inch stilettos, red. No, I don't think his butt needs the help, besides, they're hard to move in. I'm thinking a cute pair of slippers in green and silver..
The lack of money is the root of all evil.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
4364
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Posted - 2014.12.18 21:51:00 -
[111] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:No, I don't think his butt needs the help, besides, they're hard to move in. I'm thinking a cute pair of slippers in green and silver..
That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me today, also my ankles thank you.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Claudia Osyn
The Scope Gallente Federation
995
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Posted - 2014.12.18 22:10:39 -
[112] - Quote
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:
Oh God forgive these people their fashion faux pas...... I can't bear to watch.
I think I could find an outfit for you too....
The lack of money is the root of all evil.
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Claudia Osyn
The Scope Gallente Federation
995
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Posted - 2014.12.18 22:14:51 -
[113] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:No, I don't think his butt needs the help, besides, they're hard to move in. I'm thinking a cute pair of slippers in green and silver.. That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me today, also my ankles thank you. The truth doesn't always have to hurt. Also, your ankles are very welcome.
The lack of money is the root of all evil.
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N'maro Makari
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
478
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Posted - 2014.12.19 20:50:53 -
[114] - Quote
This thread is in a good place. Carry on.
**Vherokior-á**
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
1810
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Posted - 2014.12.20 08:19:46 -
[115] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote: ...So what's the harm in them trying? Most religions have practically unfulfillable mandates, and still manage to function in wider society just fine, so long as they don't have a sword in their hand to go with it.
But Pilot Ikiryo that's precisely the problem with the Amarr; the DO have a sword in their hand (the Imperial Navy, 24th Imperial Crusade, navies of the various heir families) and are quite willing to use it to further their mandate. Remember a few years back when one of the heirs sent an invasion fleet into Gallente territory? Need I remind you of the empire's naked aggression against the Jove?
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1023
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Posted - 2014.12.20 08:46:27 -
[116] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Gwen Ikiryo wrote: ...So what's the harm in them trying? Most religions have practically unfulfillable mandates, and still manage to function in wider society just fine, so long as they don't have a sword in their hand to go with it.
But Pilot Ikiryo that's precisely the problem with the Amarr; the DO have a sword in their hand (the Imperial Navy, 24th Imperial Crusade, navies of the various heir families) and are quite willing to use it to further their mandate. Remember a few years back when one of the heirs sent an invasion fleet into Gallente territory? Need I remind you of the empire's naked aggression against the Jove?
His Highness was punished, by us, for that. The Republic didn't do the same for the Elder Fleet. Even when ordered to by CONCORD.
And the attack on the Jove was over a century ago, before we established CONCORD and formal diplomatic relations. There seems to be a regular failure in people to understand that an attack on a nation to which you have no diplomatic relations is not in any way the same as breaking treaties to attack someone you do have diplomatic relations with. When you establish formal diplomatic relations and policies with other nations, when you have given your word, you are obligated to conduct yourself accordingly. Ergo, while the Jove were threatened by Amarr before CONCORD, they are not at risk now so long as they remain a CONCORD signatory. The same was the case with the Republic. |
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
431
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Posted - 2014.12.20 08:56:00 -
[117] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:But Pilot Ikiryo that's precisely the problem with the Amarr; the DO have a sword in their hand (the Imperial Navy, 24th Imperial Crusade, navies of the various heir families) and are quite willing to use it to further their mandate. Remember a few years back when one of the heirs sent an invasion fleet into Gallente territory? Need I remind you of the empire's naked aggression against the Jove?
Miss Rella,
I mean no disrespect, but if you had taken a look at the conversational context in which I made that post, you would have observed that I was arguing with Andreus in the context of a hypothetical scenario where the Empire ceased any attempts at military expansion. |
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
87
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Posted - 2014.12.20 10:12:39 -
[118] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:. Ergo, while the Jove were threatened by Amarr before CONCORD, they are not at risk now so long as they remain a CONCORD signatory. The same was the case with the Republic.
I have combat records against invading Imperial fleets that says otherwise. Pretending that the state of war was anything but finally making it official doesn't do you nor us any favors. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5199
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Posted - 2014.12.20 10:43:43 -
[119] - Quote
I have never been of any illusion that the Amarr have renounced the idea of military conquest of the cluster - a brief glance at the rhetoric from the vast majority of their highest figures of authority attests to that. What I willingly concede that they are is unwilling to attempt that military conquest right now. To them peace has always been, essentially, a means to an end - an opportunity to wait for a more favourable state of affairs. No matter what House Sarum said, at the dawn of CONCORD, the Empire was in no position to fight a war of conquest, even against the nascent Republic. Vak'Atioth and the Minmatar rebellion had so damaged Imperial morale and military power that a war ran the risk of ruining them. Peace wasn't just common sense, it was essentially a neccessity. The Empire needed to rebuild its strength and pride.
But their attitude to the rest of the cluster hadn't changed - the presumption of innate, divinely-mandated racial superiority never disappeared. Samira said it herself - the Empire is a nation founded upon conquest.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1512
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Posted - 2014.12.20 10:43:47 -
[120] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Sure. End slavery and we'll talk. Until then, not so much. Some minmatars are indeed so stupid to tell Imperials what to do within their Empire, while it is Republic and Empire relations and systems in warzone are under the threat.
I have said somewhere, that asking Amarr to end slavery is the same as asking us all to remove public school education system. It is simply absurd, and I can't believe how ridiculously blind and ignorant these minmatars, who call to end slavery in the Empire.
Such minmatars should never be allowed to be in power, and I hope that the Empire will continue defending systems from TLF to not let TLF to control any of people's lives or assets. |
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