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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:46:14 -
[1561] - Quote
I hope CCP doesn't cave on a great new step in getting rid of perfect intel due to a bunch of players unwilling to adapt to such changes. Most of what has made Eve strong is the constant re-invention of the game. Don't lose sight of that.
Oh yeah; adapt or cry in your bear threatening to unsub, only to adapt later once you realize your threatening to unsub has been used more than "crying wolf" and has lost its apparent effect.
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Niskin
League of the Lost
173
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:58:39 -
[1562] - Quote
hellokittyonline wrote: Except when you're roaming around PvPing that means you need to log off/have an alt in every system.
Log off, yes. Have alt in every system, no. Or alternatively you could just scout the plex in your pod, no logoff required.
hellokittyonline wrote: The last thing this game needs is another reason to take on another sub. Furthermore, the last thing low-sec in particular needs is another completely broken mechanic for all the "pay to win" scrubs to exploit.
Nothing I described requires another sub. I have only ever had one account. I make suggestions based on how I would operate with my one account in the various situations that are being described.
It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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hellokittyonline
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
121
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:58:41 -
[1563] - Quote
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:I hope CCP doesn't cave on a great new step in getting rid of perfect intel due to a bunch of players unwilling to adapt to such changes. Most of what has made Eve strong is the constant re-invention of the game. Don't lose sight of that.
Oh yeah; adapt or cry in your bear threatening to unsub, only to adapt later once you realize your threatening to unsub has been used more than "crying wolf" and has lost its apparent effect.
Do you even read bro? Clearly another scrub looking for ez kills. Most of the issued raised are from actual PvPers looking for changes that encourage skillbased, gimmick-free PvP instead of the war of alts we have right now. |
Niskin
League of the Lost
173
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:02:52 -
[1564] - Quote
Helene Fidard wrote:Niskin wrote:Your actions will be denied until you leave warp and you will be lockable as soon as you exit warp. There is no timed and/or breakable immunity on a warp tunnel exit. If you can lock them they can lock you. You should test this out sometime. You might be surprised.
Maybe I would be. Can you point to a patch note where this was changed? Or is this just due to differing lag between the two parties and CCP?
It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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hellokittyonline
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
121
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:03:28 -
[1565] - Quote
Niskin wrote:As a true solo player I don't usually do this but https://zkillboard.com/character/367797693/solo/ ... |
Madner Kami
Durendal Ascending Sindication
56
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:10:53 -
[1566] - Quote
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:I hope CCP doesn't cave on a great new step in getting rid of perfect intel due to a bunch of players unwilling to adapt to such changes.
So D-Scan is perfect intel nowadays? Seriously? |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
755
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:10:57 -
[1567] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:One more thing. You can also restrict combat recons from fitting a cyno if you go with the no local route.
Yes, let's create arbitrary rules to fit your world vision before considering that there might be other players around you. Same goes for the recons not showing up in scan btw, too many special bonuses on different ships leads to a jumbled mess. CovOps cloaks I can understand as that's more than 1 type of ship benefiting from it, but it's really only an extension to normal cloaking.
(Are you finally sinking into Gevlon's level of self-entitlement we've been waiting for ages now?) |
Wynta Rex
Brave Operations - Lollipop Division Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:11:13 -
[1568] - Quote
If DScan Immunity is too powerful, I'd like the Combat Recon to get an extra utility high and the ability to fit a bomb launcher and a bonus to void and lockbreaker bombs. Make it a type of bomber that doesnt revolve around solely around bombing runs but can stand and fight. |
w1ndstrike
White Talon Holdings
12
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:15:35 -
[1569] - Quote
A follow up after seeing some of the shake-up and comments:
if CCP is completely set on releasing this as it stands, there is one game system that can easily be adjusted to compensate: Lower the Fitting Requirements for Expanded Probe Launchers
currently the biggest comment is "but the recons can be probed!" and that is fine, however that comment does not recognize the reality that there are very, very few ships that can fit a combat probe launcher without giving up LARGE amounts of combat ability due to the insane CPU requirement. the sole exception to this is T3 cruisers and the T3 destroyers...... T3 shouldn't be a requirement to fight T2s effectively.
on that subject, why not give the force recons a role bonus to probe launcher fitting? it means you need to bring a recon to find a recon, but fits the cloaky/scout theme and the extension of the covops line (and gives explorers a cruiser that isn't a gnosis, T3 or stratios) |
Paynus Maiassus
UNITAS. Brave Collective
191
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:16:36 -
[1570] - Quote
Let's keep the DSCAN immunity. It's a fully new tactical situation. Real innovation. Stuff like this is too rare. Good show.
This thread is proof that men get more hysterical than women. The world will still turn and with more options and a unique ship class.
Next on the list should be damaging the blob so that fleet warfare can have some sort of option other than punching an alpha through logi. I'm tired of fitting what I am told to fit so I can undock and press F1.
+1 DSCAN immunity. |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
949
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:17:03 -
[1571] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Monday update - I'm working on a revised proposal but it's a bit slow going with everyone but me out of the office to visit their families (boring). Hopefully some new stuff for you guys soon.
are you going to bring solo back? I'm looking forward to it. |
Niskin
League of the Lost
174
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:22:03 -
[1572] - Quote
You don't usually link old loss mails that have nothing to do with the current conversation? I can see why.
Seriously though. I used to fly with others, from about a month into playing the game in 2006 all the way up to a few years ago. Since then I've been operating on my own, because I don't have the time to commit to a group the way I'd like to.
Most of the kills I've been involved in were not solo, but the few I've managed to get myself were before zkillboard existed. I'm not much of a solo PvP'er, my last attempt was in a Myrmidon if you want to look for that lossmail. I do have to do solo PvE in wormholes as that is where I currently live and have done both grouped and solo FacWar before.
Basically I've been all over this game and have seen the many areas and aspects of it. I'm solo now, but have always only had one account. So what are you trying to accuse me of here anyway?
It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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Paynus Maiassus
UNITAS. Brave Collective
191
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:22:04 -
[1573] - Quote
w1ndstrike wrote:A follow up after seeing some of the shake-up and comments:
if CCP is completely set on releasing this as it stands, there is one game system that can easily be adjusted to compensate: Lower the Fitting Requirements for Expanded Probe Launchers
currently the biggest comment is "but the recons can be probed!" and that is fine, however that comment does not recognize the reality that there are very, very few ships that can fit a combat probe launcher without giving up LARGE amounts of combat ability due to the insane CPU requirement. the sole exception to this is T3 cruisers and the T3 destroyers...... T3 shouldn't be a requirement to fight T2s effectively.
on that subject, why not give the force recons a role bonus to probe launcher fitting? it means you need to bring a recon to find a recon, but fits the cloaky/scout theme and the extension of the covops line (and gives explorers a cruiser that isn't a gnosis, T3 or stratios)
I agree that force recons that can't probe scan leaves a lot to be desired. The result would likely be that scan frigs would be relegated to a PvE role. I can live with that, frankly. |
Asimov Isaaac
Idun Investment Bank Outlanders United
0
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:26:12 -
[1574] - Quote
Dir Scan is basic game element that could be counted on to be reliable, honest and accurate. I can only think that CCP is getting desperate for game content as this gives high skill point people an unfair advantage against a lot of low skill people. People whom CCP has been trying to lure into 0.0. Give with one hand and take away with the other. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
803
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:30:42 -
[1575] - Quote
Asimov Isaaac wrote:Dir Scan is basic game element that could be counted on to be reliable, honest and accurate. I can only think that CCP is getting desperate for game content as this gives high skill point people an unfair advantage against a lot of low skill people. People whom CCP has been trying to lure into 0.0. Give with one hand and take away with the other. Out of curiosity, what is the exact "High SP" versus "Low SP" argument you're trying to make?
I'm right behind you
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1295
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:34:57 -
[1576] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Monday update - I'm working on a revised proposal but it's a bit slow going with everyone but me out of the office to visit their families (boring). Hopefully some new stuff for you guys soon. are you going to bring solo back? I'm looking forward to it.
Solo rook! |
Marlona Sky
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
5825
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:42:01 -
[1577] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:One more thing. You can also restrict combat recons from fitting a cyno if you go with the no local route. Yes, let's create arbitrary rules to fit your world vision before considering that there might be other players around you. Same goes for the recons not showing up in scan btw, too many special bonuses on different ships leads to a jumbled mess. CovOps cloaks I can understand as that's more than 1 type of ship benefiting from it, but it's really only an extension to normal cloaking. (Are you finally sinking into Gevlon's level of self-entitlement we've been waiting for ages now?) It's not arbitrary. A cyno is a powerful tool to enable force projection. Being able to sneak around that is not something that the game needs.
Your argument is simply weak that resorts to personal attacks rather than formulating a compelling argument. Too many ships with special bonuses is bad?? Are you really serious? I mean heaven forbid we have interesting choices in deciding what ship to fly right?
The Paradox
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
971
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:42:39 -
[1578] - Quote
Liet Ormand wrote:Kevin Emoto wrote:
Hey, I think this is perhaps one of the worst design decisions to come out of CCP in these dark last two years, but I'm a pirate who likes to hunt in LS and WH space and I know that this will be a mind numbingly effective tool while it lasts!
And honestly, I love the tears of FW farmers when they lose a ship! Their sense of entitlement just makes me want to hunt them more and more. Now medium and large sites will invariably be avoided in short order, as well as LS and NS DED sites, now that I think about it. Now you can camp sites anywhere, and bubbles in NS and WH space with large fleets of tanky, invisible to DScan, instalocking combat recons.
If you don't think that doesn't tickle the hearts of every pirate in LS, NS and WH space, you're kidding yourself.
But don't worry, people who play eve to harvest and do industry are greedy, really really greedy, they'll find a way to get their 'easy money'. We'll continue the be able to kill the dumb ones for quite a while yet.
You're kind of missing my point, though, I'm not talking about combat or how it affects the people involved. I'll re-state. If all the minerals currently being brought into the economy from WH farmers are cut off (as you expect they will be) then what will happen to the prices of everything made with them? For example, a rook is built with both Megacyte and Morphite. Do you think it's acceptable to pay considerably more for both as they become scarce?
The amount of minerals brought to market from w-space is beyond insignificant. I would be more concerned about w-space relics and gases. Fortunately, sieged dreads and carrier don't give a whit about EWAR except neuts, and Ventures have +2 warp core strength on top of being very inexpensive.
Also, the last time I checked, the vast majority of megacyte and morphite comes from nulsec.
No, I don't think w-space resources are in danger of drying up over recon changes.
http://youtu.be/owzhYNcd4OM
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
760
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:51:21 -
[1579] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:One more thing. You can also restrict combat recons from fitting a cyno if you go with the no local route. Yes, let's create arbitrary rules to fit your world vision before considering that there might be other players around you. Same goes for the recons not showing up in scan btw, too many special bonuses on different ships leads to a jumbled mess. CovOps cloaks I can understand as that's more than 1 type of ship benefiting from it, but it's really only an extension to normal cloaking. (Are you finally sinking into Gevlon's level of self-entitlement we've been waiting for ages now?) It's not arbitrary. A cyno is a powerful tool to enable force projection. Being able to sneak around that is not something that the game needs. Your argument is simply weak that resorts to personal attacks rather than formulating a compelling argument. Too many ships with special bonuses is bad?? Are you really serious? I mean heaven forbid we have interesting choices in deciding what ship to fly right?
We could make some ships immune to webification, some immune to direct interdiction, some immune to other random ewar and one which doesn't show up with scan probes.
These are not good functions to have in the game, supers are already borderline broken because of ewar immunity. |
mulgrew Zero
Weyland Mulgrew Corporation Dominatus Atrum Mortis
9
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Posted - 2014.12.22 21:07:13 -
[1580] - Quote
just a thought but if you want to be immune to dscan wouldnt you just fly a ship that has a covert ops cloak onit ? it is 1 of the reasons to have 1 fitted, im just wondering if this is a start of phasing out covert ships and lumping them all with dscan immunity ? |
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
179
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Posted - 2014.12.22 21:13:41 -
[1581] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote: We could make some ships immune to webification, some immune to direct interdiction, some immune to other random ewar and one which doesn't show up with scan probes.
These are not good functions to have in the game, supers are already borderline broken because of ewar immunity.
but immune to d-scan is good? Do you even have kneecaps?
Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.
I am the night. I'm Bantam.
More exploration in exploration
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Ehud Gera
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
35
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Posted - 2014.12.22 21:36:55 -
[1582] - Quote
Alundil wrote:Asimov Isaaac wrote:Dir Scan is basic game element that could be counted on to be reliable, honest and accurate. I can only think that CCP is getting desperate for game content as this gives high skill point people an unfair advantage against a lot of low skill people. People whom CCP has been trying to lure into 0.0. Give with one hand and take away with the other. Out of curiosity, what is the exact "High SP" versus "Low SP" argument you're trying to make?
The ability to fly a well fit Recon requires a decent amount of training. Low SP pilots might begin to feel that in order for them to be competitive in this new environment they have to rush into a Recon.
I find this to be another good reason to not just "shake things up" as seems to be one of the prevalent but not reasoning arguments for the change.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6120
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Posted - 2014.12.22 22:07:36 -
[1583] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:One more thing. You can also restrict combat recons from fitting a cyno if you go with the no local route. Yes, let's create arbitrary rules to fit your world vision before considering that there might be other players around you. Same goes for the recons not showing up in scan btw, too many special bonuses on different ships leads to a jumbled mess. CovOps cloaks I can understand as that's more than 1 type of ship benefiting from it, but it's really only an extension to normal cloaking. (Are you finally sinking into Gevlon's level of self-entitlement we've been waiting for ages now?) It's not arbitrary. A cyno is a powerful tool to enable force projection. Being able to sneak around that is not something that the game needs. Your argument is simply weak that resorts to personal attacks rather than formulating a compelling argument. Too many ships with special bonuses is bad?? Are you really serious? I mean heaven forbid we have interesting choices in deciding what ship to fly right? We could make some ships immune to webification, some immune to direct interdiction, some immune to other random ewar and one which doesn't show up with scan probes. These are not good functions to have in the game, supers are already borderline broken because of ewar immunity. Specialized ships with interesting and unique advantages/disadvantages are a GOOD thing.
The perceived need to have an army of alts to play (LOL), or the need / ability to have near perfect intel, are bad things.
The whole point of this thread is to find a happy medium between these points, although in my personal opinion the more powerful a ship is in core attributes (Damage and Tank) the fewer special abilities it should have.
There are many paths CCP can walk down right now, some of them still involve D-scan immunity (or perhaps even simply highly inaccurate D-scan results).
Also, with few exceptions, any suggestion that limits the ability to do a capital ship hot drop is a good thing. The desire not to be ambushed by a group of capital ships is more detrimental to the willingness of the average player to engage in combat than lack of solid intel ever was... followed closely by Falcon of course.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4185
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Posted - 2014.12.22 22:35:39 -
[1584] - Quote
I strongly feel the Force Recons should go ahead as proposed with CCP explicitly stating "We are watching the D-scan immunity. If, in our opinion, it harms the game, it WILL be rolled back next release and replaced with (insert different bonus HERE)".
One of the benefits of six weekly releases is that risks can be taken, and this is a bigish risk with both a high potential to drive conflict (i.e. upside) and also a high potential to reduce conflict by making players super-skittish.
I'm just not sure which way this one will go.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Lvzbel Ixtab
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
43
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Posted - 2014.12.22 22:39:18 -
[1585] - Quote
Niskin wrote:You don't usually link old loss mails that have nothing to do with the current conversation? I can see why. Seriously though. I used to fly with others, from about a month into playing the game in 2006 all the way up to a few years ago. Since then I've been operating on my own, because I don't have the time to commit to a group the way I'd like to. Most of the kills I've been involved in were not solo, but the few I've managed to get myself were before zkillboard existed. I'm not much of a solo PvP'er, my last attempt was in a Myrmidon if you want to look for that lossmail. I do have to do solo PvE in wormholes as that is where I currently live and have done both grouped and solo FacWar before. Basically I've been all over this game and have seen the many areas and aspects of it. I'm solo now, but have always only had one account. So what are you trying to accuse me of here anyway?
lol you even said it "As a true solo player" and they you said, "I'm not much of a solo PvP'er "
get rekt, you are proposing unrealistic tactics for people that go to LS to look for fair fights and fast pace pvp that is one reason why most people fly frigates, not because is cheap but challenging |
MRietfors
Lumen et Umbra
0
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Posted - 2014.12.22 23:11:58 -
[1586] - Quote
Dscan immunity is staying. We understand a lot of the concerns raised, but for most of them you guys are doing a great job making strong counter-arguments and I think it will be very interesting to see how this mechanic plays out on TQ. I want to put together a lengthier post soon with more explanation for this mechanic and why we feel comfortable with it, but you will have to wait a bit longer for that.
Make D-scan immunity valid only if you are farther than 1Million KMs or so.
Otherwise you goona lose most PVE players as you are already losing and exploration will suffer a lot.
My 2 cents, MRi |
Landrik Blake
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.12.22 23:17:07 -
[1587] - Quote
Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners
This is way too strong an ability for Combat Recons. You're basically giving them a free cloak.
Sure, there are some drawbacks, like the inability to hide on grid, but there are benefits too, like being invisible while undocking and using gates. It's effectively as good as a Cov-Ops cloak but on a stronger combat ship and without using a high slot. You're crazy if you don't think that's a big deal. |
Kyle Yanowski
Aideron Robotics
154
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Posted - 2014.12.22 23:21:37 -
[1588] - Quote
80 pages on this thread...
CCP Rise dropped by the High Drag Podcast to talk about Recon Ships. You can listen to it here. (Rises commentary starts at 42:40)
Host of the High Drag Eve Online Podcast ( http://highdrag.wordpress.com).
Director of Aideron Robotics.
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Niskin
League of the Lost
175
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Posted - 2014.12.22 23:22:01 -
[1589] - Quote
Lvzbel Ixtab wrote:lol you even said it "As a true solo player" and they you said, "I'm not much of a solo PvP'er " I only have one account, that makes me a solo player, that is a fact. I'm not very good at solo PvP, that is a fact.
Lvzbel Ixtab wrote:get rekt, you are proposing unrealistic tactics for people that go to LS to look for fair fights and fast pace pvp that is one reason why most people fly frigates, not because is cheap but challenging
I'm telling you what I would do if I was back doing solo FacWar with these proposed changes. You can do whatever you want. I like to do whatever gives me the most chance of survival without paying for a second account. How hard is it to dock up and pod-scout a few complexes? Or log on the alt on the same account who is already in a probe-capable ship nearby?
It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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Vargo Shahni
Dalriada Visions
0
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 23:26:42 -
[1590] - Quote
Having just a flat ability of D-scan immunity seems a bit strange to me as one of Eve's great strengths is the amount of variability in outfitting of ships you come across. Would it not be better to give combat recons an extra utility high slot and create a new module that only they can fit which grants D-scan immunity. if the module needs to be activated then the recons would be briefly visible on D-scan like Covert-Ops. |
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