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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Hicksimus
Volatile Instability Resonance.
511
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Posted - 2015.01.06 11:19:21 -
[2191] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: Right because you couldn't already be doing this with T3's, Force Recons, Stratios.
You must be new to the idea of wormholes. When d-scan is all you've got you spam it and when you spam it you see every ship you just listed before it can re-cloak with the exception of when it is more than 14.3 AU away. My new plan ONLY warns them if they know to run away when a new sig appears and that's a significant change.
Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you?
Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
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Gabriel Karade
Noir. Suddenly Spaceships.
215
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Posted - 2015.01.06 14:39:36 -
[2192] - Quote
PastyWhiteDevil wrote: this is quite literally my favorite ship in game. please don't ruin it. lest we forget that roden favors MISSILES
The Roden missiles brain-bug has been stupid since the day it appeared. It's only taken like 5 years to get it squashed - now (as per my ancient 'Gallente Mk II' thread) at least there is some sense restored to the Gallente line:
Duvolle - Blasters Roden - Railguns Creodron - Drones
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
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Niskin
League of the Lost
218
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Posted - 2015.01.06 14:43:17 -
[2193] - Quote
I don't know what kind of stasis field you people are operating in but the time between aligning or initiating warp and clicking the cloaking device is less than one second. That means at most you are on scan for one to two seconds. The fastest you can click d-scan is every two seconds. The only time people actually show up uncloaked for any length of time is when they are dropping probes.
So yes, if you click scan every two seconds, always, you might notice a cloaky ship entering your wormhole. People are arguing in here like that's always the case, and it's not even close. Try clicking scan every two seconds for 10 minutes, if you can even keep up with it your wrist will be burning in no time. Now do that for an hour, or multiple hours, for days.
The truth is that you can catch people sneaking up on you with d-scan, but that doesn't mean you always will.
It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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King Fu Hostile
Cutthroat Industries We need wards.
313
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Posted - 2015.01.06 15:39:41 -
[2194] - Quote
Niskin wrote:I don't know what kind of stasis field you people are operating in but the time between aligning or initiating warp and clicking the cloaking device is less than one second. That means at most you are on scan for one to two seconds. The fastest you can click d-scan is every two seconds. The only time people actually show up uncloaked for any length of time is when they are dropping probes.
So yes, if you click scan every two seconds, always, you might notice a cloaky ship entering your wormhole. People are arguing in here like that's always the case, and it's not even close. Try clicking scan every two seconds for 10 minutes, if you can even keep up with it your wrist will be burning in no time. Now do that for an hour, or multiple hours, for days.
The truth is that you can catch people sneaking up on you with d-scan, but that doesn't mean you always will.
You show up on scan long after you have clicked cloak on your client and disappear from grid. Your cloaky Proteus can be already in warp after cloaking, and still visible on dscan.
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Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution
375
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 15:39:50 -
[2195] - Quote
Have you nerfed Ishtars yet CCP Rise?
Have you nerfed Logi yet?
Getting bored with Ishtarceptors online.
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
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Niskin
League of the Lost
219
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Posted - 2015.01.06 16:20:31 -
[2196] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Niskin wrote:I don't know what kind of stasis field you people are operating in but the time between aligning or initiating warp and clicking the cloaking device is less than one second. That means at most you are on scan for one to two seconds. The fastest you can click d-scan is every two seconds. The only time people actually show up uncloaked for any length of time is when they are dropping probes.
So yes, if you click scan every two seconds, always, you might notice a cloaky ship entering your wormhole. People are arguing in here like that's always the case, and it's not even close. Try clicking scan every two seconds for 10 minutes, if you can even keep up with it your wrist will be burning in no time. Now do that for an hour, or multiple hours, for days.
The truth is that you can catch people sneaking up on you with d-scan, but that doesn't mean you always will. You show up on scan long after you have clicked cloak on your client and disappear from grid. Your cloaky Proteus can be already in warp after cloaking, and still visible on dscan.
That has not been my experience. There will be inherent delays due to long distance communication with the server, and the 1 second server ticks will propagate that a bit. But I've never seen a case where somebody cloaked and still showed on scan for any length of time, even for 1 second.
It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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Aladar Dangerface
Absolutely Certain
60
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Posted - 2015.01.06 17:46:09 -
[2197] - Quote
Niskin wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Niskin wrote:I don't know what kind of stasis field you people are operating in but the time between aligning or initiating warp and clicking the cloaking device is less than one second. That means at most you are on scan for one to two seconds. The fastest you can click d-scan is every two seconds. The only time people actually show up uncloaked for any length of time is when they are dropping probes.
So yes, if you click scan every two seconds, always, you might notice a cloaky ship entering your wormhole. People are arguing in here like that's always the case, and it's not even close. Try clicking scan every two seconds for 10 minutes, if you can even keep up with it your wrist will be burning in no time. Now do that for an hour, or multiple hours, for days.
The truth is that you can catch people sneaking up on you with d-scan, but that doesn't mean you always will. You show up on scan long after you have clicked cloak on your client and disappear from grid. Your cloaky Proteus can be already in warp after cloaking, and still visible on dscan. That has not been my experience. There will be inherent delays due to long distance communication with the server, and the 1 second server ticks will propagate that a bit. But I've never seen a case where somebody cloaked and still showed on scan for any length of time, even for 1 second. I have, i would say it is about 2-4 seconds that you will remain on dscan after you cloak but there defo is a delay between cloaking and disappearing from dscan and i have absoutley no doubt about it.
I don't need twitter.
I'm already following you.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
540
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 21:30:22 -
[2198] - Quote
lmbo you people are still talking about this |
Alexis Nightwish
70
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Posted - 2015.01.06 21:43:08 -
[2199] - Quote
Aladar Dangerface wrote:Niskin wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Niskin wrote:I don't know what kind of stasis field you people are operating in but the time between aligning or initiating warp and clicking the cloaking device is less than one second. That means at most you are on scan for one to two seconds. The fastest you can click d-scan is every two seconds. The only time people actually show up uncloaked for any length of time is when they are dropping probes.
So yes, if you click scan every two seconds, always, you might notice a cloaky ship entering your wormhole. People are arguing in here like that's always the case, and it's not even close. Try clicking scan every two seconds for 10 minutes, if you can even keep up with it your wrist will be burning in no time. Now do that for an hour, or multiple hours, for days.
The truth is that you can catch people sneaking up on you with d-scan, but that doesn't mean you always will. You show up on scan long after you have clicked cloak on your client and disappear from grid. Your cloaky Proteus can be already in warp after cloaking, and still visible on dscan. That has not been my experience. There will be inherent delays due to long distance communication with the server, and the 1 second server ticks will propagate that a bit. But I've never seen a case where somebody cloaked and still showed on scan for any length of time, even for 1 second. I have, i would say it is about 2-4 seconds that you will remain on dscan after you cloak but there defo is a delay between cloaking and disappearing from dscan and i have absoutley no doubt about it. This is true. I've seen cov ops on Dscan for 2 sometimes even 3 scans before they vanish. Let's not forget that if you're in a fleet, you're all spamming Dscan and getting multiple scans per second.
Now you're required to have eyes on every WH (and outside your FW plex too?) as being vigilant with Dscan is no longer sufficient to give you warning of an incoming threat. Which means alts. Any change that requires alts to play competitively is a bad change IMO.
And just after they nerfed ISboxer too. One step forward, one step back. *sigh*
Power Projection: A Brighter Future
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Kynric
Sky Fighters
238
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Posted - 2015.01.06 23:15:18 -
[2200] - Quote
Before the change it is possible to fit the Huginn with weapons that project sufficient to match the webs without resorting to fitting modules. The proposed will have to use the new low for a reactor if arty is desired. A bit more powergrid to facilitate fitting artillery or a falloff bonus for autocannons or switching the ship back to launchers would make the vessel more attractive. As it stands it seems rather less interesting than the current version which rarely gets used as another ship always seems like a much better choice. |
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Yahrr
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
25
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Posted - 2015.01.07 02:28:11 -
[2201] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:This is true. I've seen cov ops on Dscan for 2 sometimes even 3 scans before they vanish. Let's not forget that if you're in a fleet, you're all spamming Dscan and getting multiple scans per second. The same goes for being on other people's overview after cloaking. At least with the old effect, after your ships got fully cloaked, the ship's bracket remained visible in space, overview and d-scan for a few seconds. When they nerfed cloakers going through deadspace gates we tested if you would land fully cloaked on the other side and in most occasions there was a short flash of flashy red on the target's overview, even while the cloaker was already completely cloaked before being halfway the warp.
I haven't been juggling with EFT's files, but when I look at the slots and bonuses of the force recons versus the combat recons, I want to kick myself for not selling my old cloakies. They're almost obsolete now unless you want to light a Christmas tree in someone's backyard or have to skip a camped gate. |
2D34DLY4U
BACKUPLEGION
20
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Posted - 2015.01.07 12:12:36 -
[2202] - Quote
Designing ships in EVE is a very hard thing to do, you have to think about solo use, small gang use, fleet use (same ship my have totally different fits/uses in these contexts and if possible should be useful in all of them to make for a richer game), further factor in how does this specific ship compare with it's same tiered peers (size wise among cruisers, isk wise bang for the buck versus T1, other T2, T3, Faction) and finally try to introduce new and interesting game play mechanics to make it fun / EVE a better game.
I can understand the d scan immunity feature is an attempt to introduce some variety through a new unique mechanic however I still feel it doesn't really accomplish that (not a game changer or a big deal at the end of the day), it favors IMO regressive game play mechanics (ganking vs. roaming) and it further introduces unnecessary complexity in a system badly in need of a redesign, if you think about new player experience we now have to teach NP about d scan, then about cloaky ships and now also about d scan immune ships - they probably just want to find people to shoot and have good fights, this added complexity doesn't help in any way or bring value in terms of providing richer gameplay opportunities (IMO).
I do agree the local / d scan intel system should be addressed by devs, either through ship design changes or a complete overhaul, this system should be a simple and easy tool aimed at helping players find what they want (engagements, structures, sites) and not a barrier between what they want to do and their goals which is currently what happens with this medieval sonar like interface we have. I know everyone likes to think they are d scan wizards however if you think about it honestly it's quite simple and repetitive and not exactly a triple A game play experience.
Perhaps we can just replace the d scan with an elite like radar visual system, no more click click click rotate camera around click click click warp click click click, just a self refreshing visual radar thingy where you can see whats around you within 14 AU and right click objects on the radar to get a warp to menu like we have on the overview, if we treat groups of close ships as blobs we can also help differentiate solo/small gang/fleets and reduce load. I don't know if this is technically viable or if it will introduce lag / server overhead but any change that simplifies engagement generating mechanics and allows players to get to what they want - engagements - is a good thing since it will promote better game play in the end, both while finding fights and generating more fights as that's what matters, not all these pseudo complex pre engagement gameplay mechanics we have that in the end just just foster risk aversion. |
Jaysen Larrisen
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
63
|
Posted - 2015.01.07 12:24:02 -
[2203] - Quote
2D34DLY4U wrote:Designing ships in EVE is a very hard thing to do, you have to think about solo use, small gang use, fleet use (same ship my have totally different fits/uses in these contexts and if possible should be useful in all of them to make for a richer game), further factor in how does this specific ship compare with it's same tiered peers (size wise among cruisers, isk wise bang for the buck versus T1, other T2, T3, Faction) and finally try to introduce new and interesting game play mechanics to make it fun / EVE a better game.
I can understand the d scan immunity feature is an attempt to introduce some variety through a new unique mechanic however I still feel it doesn't really accomplish that (not a game changer or a big deal at the end of the day), it favors IMO regressive game play mechanics (ganking vs. roaming) and it further introduces unnecessary complexity in a system badly in need of a redesign, if you think about new player experience we now have to teach NP about d scan, then about cloaky ships and now also about d scan immune ships - they probably just want to find people to shoot and have good fights, this added complexity doesn't help in any way or bring value in terms of providing richer gameplay opportunities (IMO).
I do agree the local / d scan intel system should be addressed by devs, either through ship design changes or a complete overhaul, this system should be a simple and easy tool aimed at helping players find what they want (engagements, structures, sites) and not a barrier between what they want to do and their goals which is currently what happens with this medieval sonar like interface we have. I know everyone likes to think they are d scan wizards however if you think about it honestly it's quite simple and repetitive and not exactly a triple A game play experience.
Perhaps we can just replace the d scan with an elite like radar visual system, no more click click click rotate camera around click click click warp click click click, just a self refreshing visual radar thingy where you can see whats around you within 14 AU and right click objects on the radar to get a warp to menu like we have on the overview, if we treat groups of close ships as blobs we can also help differentiate solo/small gang/fleets and reduce load. I don't know if this is technically viable or if it will introduce lag / server overhead but any change that simplifies engagement generating mechanics and allows players to get to what they want - engagements - is a good thing since it will promote better game play in the end, both while finding fights and generating more fights as that's what matters, not all these pseudo complex pre engagement gameplay mechanics we have that in the end just just foster risk aversion.
Good post but slightly off topic.
I actually like your d-scan idea and it's probably worthy of a thread on its own. Be prepared for the whole "ur nerfing EVE and turning this into WOW carebear city!" from som folks.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War" - Cicero
Biomassed - Dust & EVE Podcast
Twitter - @JaysynLarrissen
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1075
|
Posted - 2015.01.07 13:20:38 -
[2204] - Quote
Kynric wrote:Before the change it is possible to fit the Huginn with weapons that project sufficient to match the webs without resorting to fitting modules. The proposed will have to use the new low for a reactor if arty is desired. A bit more powergrid to facilitate fitting artillery or a strong falloff bonus for autocannons or switching the ship back to launchers would make the vessel more attractive. As it stands it seems rather less interesting than the current version which rarely gets used as another ship always seems like a much better choice.
mm.. a cloaky RLML rapier with same layout seems a better option
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
197
|
Posted - 2015.01.07 14:46:02 -
[2205] - Quote
Niskin wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Niskin wrote:I don't know what kind of stasis field you people are operating in but the time between aligning or initiating warp and clicking the cloaking device is less than one second. That means at most you are on scan for one to two seconds. The fastest you can click d-scan is every two seconds. The only time people actually show up uncloaked for any length of time is when they are dropping probes.
So yes, if you click scan every two seconds, always, you might notice a cloaky ship entering your wormhole. People are arguing in here like that's always the case, and it's not even close. Try clicking scan every two seconds for 10 minutes, if you can even keep up with it your wrist will be burning in no time. Now do that for an hour, or multiple hours, for days.
The truth is that you can catch people sneaking up on you with d-scan, but that doesn't mean you always will. You show up on scan long after you have clicked cloak on your client and disappear from grid. Your cloaky Proteus can be already in warp after cloaking, and still visible on dscan. That has not been my experience. There will be inherent delays due to long distance communication with the server, and the 1 second server ticks will propagate that a bit. But I've never seen a case where somebody cloaked and still showed on scan for any length of time, even for 1 second.
I find your lack of knowledge disturbing. It's Wormhole 101 that you'll show up on dscan for at least 4-5 seconds even if you immediately re-cloak. |
Niskin
League of the Lost
219
|
Posted - 2015.01.07 15:19:17 -
[2206] - Quote
Ab'del Abu wrote:Niskin wrote:That has not been my experience. There will be inherent delays due to long distance communication with the server, and the 1 second server ticks will propagate that a bit. But I've never seen a case where somebody cloaked and still showed on scan for any length of time, even for 1 second. I find your lack of knowledge disturbing. It's Wormhole 101 that you'll show up on dscan for at least 4-5 seconds even if you immediately re-cloak.
I can't speak to off-grid d-scan results, because I only have one account and have been playing solo the last few years, but when on-grid you are dead wrong. When I sit and watch a wormhole connection and something comes in and cloaks, I click scan and they are gone. No delay, no 4-5 seconds. They are just gone.
Back when I played with a group, from 2006 to 2012, I never once heard of this delay. Maybe something has changed since then, I don't know. I'm just telling you what I'm seeing, and it's been 100% consistent so there was never a reason to doubt it.
It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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Alexis Nightwish
71
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Posted - 2015.01.07 18:49:50 -
[2207] - Quote
2D34DLY4U wrote:Designing ships in EVE is a very hard thing to do, you have to think about solo use, small gang use, fleet use (same ship my have totally different fits/uses in these contexts and if possible should be useful in all of them to make for a richer game), further factor in how does this specific ship compare with it's same tiered peers (size wise among cruisers, isk wise bang for the buck versus T1, other T2, T3, Faction) and finally try to introduce new and interesting game play mechanics to make it fun / EVE a better game.
(snip) Yeah. It's too bad the devs don't have a huge resource of experience and knowledge of the game they could draw upon to help them make better choices when modifying such a profoundly complex system. Something like hundreds of players with thousands of combined hours of playtime who would be willing to put forth their thoughts on how to make the game better based on experience and passion for the game.
CCP only approaches a problem in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
108
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Posted - 2015.01.07 18:57:36 -
[2208] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Kynric wrote:Before the change it is possible to fit the Huginn with weapons that project sufficient to match the webs without resorting to fitting modules. The proposed will have to use the new low for a reactor if arty is desired. A bit more powergrid to facilitate fitting artillery or a strong falloff bonus for autocannons or switching the ship back to launchers would make the vessel more attractive. As it stands it seems rather less interesting than the current version which rarely gets used as another ship always seems like a much better choice. mm.. a cloaky RLML rapier with same layout seems a better option
It is. 400dps with furies, double web with roughly 35-40k EHP and goes 2100 m/s cold. It can cloak to avoid camps or setup BM to pounce on unsuspecting victims. I dont intend to touch a huginn because of sacrifices youll need to make to get ****** 650s to fit, let alone trying to squeeze 720s on it. Ive considered a ac kite fit.. but the dps will be so anemic at kite ranges without falloff bonuses, its better to use RLML.
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Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
488
|
Posted - 2015.01.07 23:39:08 -
[2209] - Quote
Speedkermit Damo wrote:Have you nerfed Ishtars yet CCP Rise?
Have you nerfed Logi yet?
Getting bored with Ishtarceptors online. they shoulda nerf logi 2 years ago. infact they shouldnt have even come out with logi. this isnt WOW. its a space game. and logi in a fight dont make sense at ******* all
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
18
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Posted - 2015.01.08 02:14:43 -
[2210] - Quote
I can't find anything posted, but some quick and dirty math gives the 720mm Huginn an alpha of about 2300 with republic plasma ammo. Does that seem right?
What is the EHP of a Niarja? |
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Scheulagh Santorine
The Math Department
24
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Posted - 2015.01.08 06:21:52 -
[2211] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:2D34DLY4U wrote:Designing ships in EVE is a very hard thing to do, you have to think about solo use, small gang use, fleet use (same ship my have totally different fits/uses in these contexts and if possible should be useful in all of them to make for a richer game), further factor in how does this specific ship compare with it's same tiered peers (size wise among cruisers, isk wise bang for the buck versus T1, other T2, T3, Faction) and finally try to introduce new and interesting game play mechanics to make it fun / EVE a better game.
(snip) Yeah. It's too bad the devs don't have a huge resource of experience and knowledge of the game they could draw upon to help them make better choices when modifying such a profoundly complex system. Something like hundreds of players with thousands of combined hours of playtime who would be willing to put forth their thoughts on how to make the game better based on experience and passion for the game.
I want to give you a hug.
Its not sarcastic to think that devs could build on the experience of every player in the game. I tried to pursue this line of questioning at FanFest last year, trying to get Rise and Fozzie to explain what tools they use to categorize different play styles, and identify how different fits make ships more/less relevant for these different styles.
They do claim to look at KB statistics gathered with in-house tools, but they never publish statistics or metrics in their dev blogs to motivate the changes they make in ship balance. If this lack of visual information was present for PLEX prices, the economy, industry or sov, they would have a great deal of difficulty justifying intervention in those aspects of the game.
Perhaps we can advocate for more transparency in this area?
S. Santorine
============================== I used to shoot things. Now I do math.
S. Santorine
Writings on some formal methods in EvE-Online: Ship Motion in EVE Online
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Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
182
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 06:27:22 -
[2212] - Quote
Niskin wrote:Ab'del Abu wrote:Niskin wrote:That has not been my experience. There will be inherent delays due to long distance communication with the server, and the 1 second server ticks will propagate that a bit. But I've never seen a case where somebody cloaked and still showed on scan for any length of time, even for 1 second. I find your lack of knowledge disturbing. It's Wormhole 101 that you'll show up on dscan for at least 4-5 seconds even if you immediately re-cloak. I can't speak to off-grid d-scan results, because I only have one account and have been playing solo the last few years, but when on-grid you are dead wrong. When I sit and watch a wormhole connection and something comes in and cloaks, I click scan and they are gone. No delay, no 4-5 seconds. They are just gone. Back when I played with a group, from 2006 to 2012, I never once heard of this delay. Maybe something has changed since then, I don't know. I'm just telling you what I'm seeing, and it's been 100% consistent so there was never a reason to doubt it. If im reading this right you are speaking of physically watching a ship dissapear off overview while dscanning and seeing he disappears from dscan at the same time. What you are seeing is everything that takes place after the delay. Ie They clicked cloak 3ish seconds later they dissapear from your overview and dscan. It has always been this way. |
Vincintius Agrippa
F L O O D
71
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 07:06:11 -
[2213] - Quote
This has got to be one of the dumbest ideas in history, of all time.
Its stupidity far exceeds that which was previously established by decisions unsupported by facts, data, or common sense.
" D-scan immunity" The most Blasphemous words ever spoken in an MMO.
While being forced to bring a prober may be more of an inconvenience for roaming fleets of lets say 20-50+, it gimps small gang pvp, and renders solo activities utterly useless without the use of alt. Seeing how probe scanning takes significantly longer than d-scanning and both are manual, and the need to scan every time someone enters system, why freaking bother. Its seems like an "I Win" button in far too many scenarios. At least with cloakies, theres a targeting delay, plus they cant enter a system, warp to a beacon, and button in without so much as being detected.
Fail.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
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Hellrain Choochoo
Naked Women Drink Vodka
2
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Posted - 2015.01.08 08:45:39 -
[2214] - Quote
Why Curse is having less low slot than the Pilgrim ? fighter recon aren't supposed to be more resistant than their cloaky counterpart ? |
Keno Skir
724
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 11:10:17 -
[2215] - Quote
Not sure about the dscan thing tbh. I'll enjoy it, but isn't that just what a cloak is for?
Gùï> 3 Week Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1075
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 14:19:46 -
[2216] - Quote
Hellrain Choochoo wrote:Why Curse is having less low slot than the Pilgrim ? fighter recon aren't supposed to be more resistant than their cloaky counterpart ?
Also why not a drone EV drain amount bonus ?
it is ridiculous that they are happy with the curse being shield tanked, - it has -1 lowslot on the pilgrim, 4 slots is hard too armour tank with - lacks pg too effectively armour tank - pilgrim has more Armour HP - why do they need 2 droneboats? .. even the gallente don't have a drone based recon why? - curse should be treated as khanid thus missiles and strong armour tank
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
530
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 14:36:00 -
[2217] - Quote
As of two day ago the Recon changes are on SiSi for review.
My first impressions so far are mixed and give me the headache. What most of them in common is that force recons are inferior versions of the combat recons / electronic attack cruisers (which is a far better name for them).
Curse
This one is cursed.. Though the increased drain and neut range is nice and the drone damage is not to ignore here.
Pilgrim
Lesser Curse with a covert ops cloak.
Why both of them even have a tracking disruption bonus escapes me but both of them are nice shield tankers, as always with the Amarr line of ships.
Lachesis
This one is an amazing railgun boat at very long ranges.
Arazu
Inferior Lachesis with covert ops cloak.
Both Gallente recons do just fine as always with shield tanks.
Rook
The worst of the recons with a weapon system that still hurts my feelings but no ship in New Eden. If you are lucky sometimes you can jam someone. The ancillery missile launcher range bonus was forgotten to put on - who might that have been??
Falcon
Yeah Falcon oh Falcon, why wasn'r you changed?
As long time running gag in Island, both Caldari recons didn't change at all. I am almost surprised..
All recons still have terrible capacitors, mobility but as racial flavor they all have some shield tanks. Maybe the Curse should move one low back to the meds again, so that the common shield Amarr doesn't look so weird in the line of Amarr ships.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1075
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Posted - 2015.01.08 16:12:18 -
[2218] - Quote
mm.. maybe renaming combat recons to Electronic Attack cruiser would make more sense and perhaps you could tie them in with the EAF's give them the same d-scan bonus and give them a stronger combat focus too match.
maybe even separate the recon skillbook from the combat recons change it to Electronic Attack cruiser skillbook in its place.
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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Jaysen Larrisen
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
63
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Posted - 2015.01.08 16:32:27 -
[2219] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:mm.. maybe renaming combat recons to Electronic Attack cruiser would make more sense and perhaps you could tie them in with the EAF's give them the same d-scan bonus and give them a stronger combat focus too match.
maybe even separate the recon skillbook from the combat recons change it to Electronic Attack cruiser skillbook in its place.
Agreed on the EAC point. Several of us discussed the point in this thread.
I don't know that you need to split the skill books. I think the CovOPs frigs are an excellent example for this class of cruisers to have followed. The frigs give you a stealthy surveillance and exploration platform in one boat and the bomber in an other under the same skill branch...two massively different boats that were split in function quite well.
I seriously wished they had considered doing the same for the Recon ships. The d-scan piece I can take or leave, either way I'm fine. I tend to fly in small to medium gangs mostly and I was far more interested in the Electronic Attack aspect of the ships...my beef is that the T2 options are simply less desirable in many cases (cost vs difference in performance) than the T1 options.
I'm still not sure why I would fly a Rook in a gang instead of a Blackbird or Falcon. Maybe I don't see it but I'm struggling a bit with that.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War" - Cicero
Biomassed - Dust & EVE Podcast
Twitter - @JaysynLarrissen
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1075
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Posted - 2015.01.08 17:13:13 -
[2220] - Quote
Jaysen Larrisen wrote:Harvey James wrote:mm.. maybe renaming combat recons to Electronic Attack cruiser would make more sense and perhaps you could tie them in with the EAF's give them the same d-scan bonus and give them a stronger combat focus too match.
maybe even separate the recon skillbook from the combat recons change it to Electronic Attack cruiser skillbook in its place. Agreed on the EAC point. Several of us discussed the point in this thread. I don't know that you need to split the skill books. I think the CovOPs frigs are an excellent example for this class of cruisers to have followed. The frigs give you a stealthy surveillance and exploration platform in one boat and the bomber in an other under the same skill branch...two massively different boats that were split in function quite well. I seriously wished they had considered doing the same for the Recon ships. The d-scan piece I can take or leave, either way I'm fine. I tend to fly in small to medium gangs mostly and I was far more interested in the Electronic Attack aspect of the ships...my beef is that the T2 options are simply less desirable in many cases (cost vs difference in performance) than the T1 options. I'm still not sure why I would fly a Rook in a gang instead of a Blackbird or Falcon. Maybe I don't see it but I'm struggling a bit with that.
dps mainly .. a 400 plus dps rook could be quite handy in a small fleet, with much higher jam strength than the bb which is more about ecm range than strength, and the falcons strength is the cloak ofc, shame they don't want it too do any decent dps.
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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