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Xtrah
No Holes Barred
207
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Posted - 2014.12.18 15:30:23 -
[1] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5318916#post5318916
"Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners"
I fear this will drastically change ganks in low-class wormhole space... With the added HAC resists, fleets of recons will probably be a thing too, that might even match todays Tech 3 setups...
Thoughts?
@Xtrah_ - YouTube channel
Latest vids: Fight against TDSIN and SSC (Triage) | The Defence of Polaris
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Niskin
League of the Lost
147
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Posted - 2014.12.18 15:34:14 -
[2] - Quote
Holy sh*t, the Curse is back!
It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc.
461
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Posted - 2014.12.18 15:34:27 -
[3] - Quote
I see nothing wrong with more danger in w-space.
If anything it shakes up the typical heavy armor t3 fights more with some room for recons in the comps. |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
133
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Posted - 2014.12.18 15:41:12 -
[4] - Quote
Xtrah wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5318916#post5318916
"Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners"
I fear this will drastically change ganks in low-class wormhole space... With the added HAC resists, fleets of recons will probably be a thing too, that might even match todays Tech 3 setups...
Thoughts?
All the people in my statics are dead now.
Seriously though, this is ********. |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
133
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Posted - 2014.12.18 15:44:28 -
[5] - Quote
Braxus Deninard wrote:I see nothing wrong with more danger in w-space.
If anything it shakes up the typical heavy armor t3 fights more with some room for recons in the comps.
t2 resists profile are great.
But undetectable recons are a game changer for all the places where holes are not rolled before engaging in PVE, i.e. all the C1 holes, and a vast majority of C2-C4 systems.
In the long run this would probably prove to be bad from a hunter's perspective too, since the prey won't show any longer.
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Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc.
461
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Posted - 2014.12.18 15:53:48 -
[6] - Quote
The hunters already don't show for the most part until it's too late, site runners are going to get scouted with a covops ship which will appear on dscan for a split second when they jump in. If you're running sites in a hole and don't roll the connections then you'd have a scout on each open hole listening for activations.
It will make very little change when it comes to catching site runners unless the site runners are lazy and not watching connections. |
Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical
510
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:24:22 -
[7] - Quote
Ab'del Abu wrote:Braxus Deninard wrote:I see nothing wrong with more danger in w-space.
If anything it shakes up the typical heavy armor t3 fights more with some room for recons in the comps. t2 resists profile are great. But undetectable recons are a game changer for all the places where holes are not rolled before engaging in PVE, i.e. all the C1 holes, and a vast majority of C2-C4 systems. In the long run this would probably prove to be bad from a hunter's perspective too, since the prey won't show any longer.
This change makes no difference. Before it was just you have a cloaky tackle proteus now at least theres some other ships being used, cheaper and easier to kill ships as well. |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
139
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:28:05 -
[8] - Quote
Braxus Deninard wrote:The hunters already don't show for the most part until it's too late, site runners are going to get scouted with a covops ship which will appear on dscan for a split second when they jump in. If you're running sites in a hole and don't roll the connections then you'd have a scout on each open hole listening for activations.
It will make very little change when it comes to catching site runners unless the site runners are lazy and not watching connections.
People daytripping into a c3 probably don't bring a handful of scouts to watch all connections and share their measly 100m isk/hour with.
As for scouts showing up on dscan: if the recon jumps with the scout together or shortly after nothing will show on dscan before the recon lands in the site |
Alundil
Isogen 5
795
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:35:33 -
[9] - Quote
I think that these changes are going to be really interesting. And I don't think it'll result in the "death of low class" holes. It will mean that people will need to be more prepared (and paranoid).
I'm right behind you
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Niskin
League of the Lost
148
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:41:54 -
[10] - Quote
The Lachesis is really the one to fear here. With a high scan res setup they can land in your site and point you really fast. That might be mitigated by a mobile depot and some warp core stabs, if they land solo for tackle. If you are 60k+ off the site entrance, aligned, and watching the overview as diligently as d-scan, you can probably avoid a Curse/Huginn/Rook if they don't have a perfect warp-in on you.
It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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Glyndi
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
264
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:57:24 -
[11] - Quote
I'm excited, great changes.
Bring on the "This will kill [insert area of game]"!! |
Niskin
League of the Lost
148
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:07:41 -
[12] - Quote
I need to put up a new blog post but I keep getting distracted by that thread. If I let it get too far ahead it will take days to catch up!
It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
823
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:09:29 -
[13] - Quote
I don't think any of them really got a DPS buff, so it shouldn't be too bad. Like that other guy said, Lach could be scary, but I wouldn't be too worried about the others. I don't this change will bring a rise to solo recon pilots, but they may be good for grabbing initial point since they don't appear on d-scan and don't have the decloak lock delay.
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
142
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:12:01 -
[14] - Quote
Glyndi wrote:I'm excited, great changes.
Bring on the "This will kill [insert area of game]"!!
Maeh, it will not really kill anything. But a number of things would be thrown out of (the current) balance.
- you would be handed yet another very powerful tool for killing low-class inhabitants doing their PvE - ****** "cloaky Falcon" gameplay in solo pvp would be complemented by any type of combat recon - factional warfare becomes even more stupid
A dscan immune ship with highly potent ewar, dps and actual tank for 200m is just too powerful.
As for wh-space implications I'm just afraid to run out of targets |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
823
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Posted - 2014.12.18 18:31:22 -
[15] - Quote
Ab'del Abu wrote:- shitttty "cloaky Falcon" gameplay in solo pvp would be complemented by any type of offgrid combat recon
You could've used any type of cloaky recon before...
This update has literally turned combat recons into PA
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
1007
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Posted - 2014.12.18 18:55:07 -
[16] - Quote
I'm not sure it will change much in wormholes other than the fact we will see more Combat Recons used now.
Combat recons can't warped cloaked which means they will be visible the second they come onto grid. So now, grid positioning will be everything. Most wormhole groups used a cloaky to bump them while they grab point and warp a fleet anyway.
There is a really easy counter to this change however, combat probes.
What I do expect to see is them being used to run sites in low end holes so people don't know sites are being run expect by seeing wrecks.
Wormholers are used to being ready for cloaky ships to attack and they can't be seen while they're warping around cloaked. I don't see it affecting us much.
Nullsec ratters however; I forsee them having am issue with this
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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Orlacc
672
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Posted - 2014.12.18 18:56:12 -
[17] - Quote
Didn't see this coming.....lots of implications to mull over.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Nitrah
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
54
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Posted - 2014.12.18 18:56:38 -
[18] - Quote
Bloody hell. Defensive combat probes! How do they work!?!
The sky isn't falling. |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
823
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:49:01 -
[19] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:What I do expect to see is them being used to run sites in low end holes so people don't know sites are being run expect by seeing wrecks.
That dank recon DPS
These could be fun in Thera. Just sit off-grid and jump on ****.
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Jack Miton
Isogen 5
4014
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Posted - 2014.12.18 21:10:16 -
[20] - Quote
While i think the changes are fine, i think they have the same problem as the HAC changes: Theyre not enough. Not being Dscannable is cute and all but id rather they were actually buffed more.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/
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ArchAngael
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
16
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Posted - 2014.12.18 21:49:12 -
[21] - Quote
Nitrah wrote:Bloody hell. Defensive combat probes! How do they work!?!
The sky isn't falling.
This, totally this. Other issues could be that landing out of range will mean you just blew the gank, not possible to keep cloak and re-bounce or slowboat to them.
It's a form of cloaky warfare and/or heavy tackle that hasn't been seen before, so I'm really curious, and excited, to see how it plays out.
Recruiter/Director of Supreme Mathematics
Take my Eve Online Ship identification quiz at http://fenjaylabs.com/EveShipIdQuiz
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Iyokus Patrouette
No Vacancies
225
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Posted - 2014.12.18 22:18:30 -
[22] - Quote
I propose we actually change combat recon ships to make you invisible in local chat... Then we can use them in Null sec
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
1007
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Posted - 2014.12.18 22:47:30 -
[23] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:Seraph Essael wrote:What I do expect to see is them being used to run sites in low end holes so people don't know sites are being run expect by seeing wrecks. That dank recon DPS These could be fun in Thera. Just sit off-grid and jump on ****. I've seen people try and run sites in C1 and C2 holes in ****-fit Caracals, people out there will do it in the new recons simply because it's "safer". You know what the bears are like, if it means they aren't d-scannable while they run sites they will probably do it. But I know what you mean. (Although I don't know what the DPS out of a combat recon is...?)
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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Kynric
Sky Fighters
223
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Posted - 2014.12.18 23:25:52 -
[24] - Quote
Wrecks will give them away in proper combat sites. However hackers, gasers, defense forces for miners (hello crow/saber, may I introduce you to the triple sebo lachi and my support team) and null belt ratters (who generally move to another belt after a kill or two) would be obvious applications. This change will certainly cut both ways.
I would be much more happier with the dscan game if instead of it being 100% chance out to a 14 and some change and then 0% chance it were to become a chance to are all ships with the chance greater for closer/large ships and smaller for small/far ships with perhaps modifiers for terrain or perhaps electronically sophisticated ships like recons. That would make the cat and mouse a lot more interesting to me. This would make the scout game play a lot mote interesting and separate the great scouts from the pack which is imo a good thing. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
795
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Posted - 2014.12.18 23:37:51 -
[25] - Quote
Just from a look at the changes on the Lachesis, for example, it's going to lose the damage bonus to Hybrids (was +5% Med Hybrids) and get better Hybrid tracking (+10%). It's gaining another 10m3 Drone Bay and +10 bandwidth so it'll be able launch a full flight of mediums.
An unbonused flight of Hammerhead IIs will put out 158 DPS before DDAs. Unbonused, say, 200mm Rails with CNAM will be about 267 dps with one magstab.
Napkin math says that 158+217 = 375 unbonused DPS. In some other "typical" Lachesis I've flown the DPS output was about 363 on paper (split weapon dps/application meant much lower). Basic difference between "base" Lach in in the Proteus patch and the one I'm familiar with = .03% difference in DPS
Add one magstab and one DDA and that number gets a bit different. 195 (drones) + 267 (200mm Rails / CNAM) = 462 100(462-363)/462 = +27.3% increase (probably better application as well)
Fun times.
All in all I think that this'll be a far more formidable setup than the current Lachesis. And resists will be getting better as well.
I'm right behind you
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
975
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Posted - 2014.12.19 00:23:38 -
[26] - Quote
My gut reaction. Love it.
Secondary reaction, wtf that's op.
3rd reaction, well no that's what cloaks do.
Ultimately they made the other half of the recons have a use, and be viable as a recon. This is a good change on its face. There is now tackle that people can fly into just opened holes without being worried that they are immediately detected on dscan. Probes work, they can't cloak, you see them you shoot them. There is now a tackle ship people can go tackle with.
I'm ok with that.
Yaay!!!!
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Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical
512
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Posted - 2014.12.19 00:45:18 -
[27] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:My gut reaction. Love it.
Secondary reaction, wtf that's op.
3rd reaction, well no that's what cloaks do.
Ultimately they made the other half of the recons have a use, and be viable as a recon. This is a good change on its face. There is now tackle that people can fly into just opened holes without being worried that they are immediately detected on dscan. Probes work, they can't cloak, you see them you shoot them. There is now a tackle ship people can go tackle with.
I'm ok with that.
The interesting thing is are people just gonna have blobs of recons sat just off a wormhole with bait. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
976
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Posted - 2014.12.19 01:10:28 -
[28] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:My gut reaction. Love it.
Secondary reaction, wtf that's op.
3rd reaction, well no that's what cloaks do.
Ultimately they made the other half of the recons have a use, and be viable as a recon. This is a good change on its face. There is now tackle that people can fly into just opened holes without being worried that they are immediately detected on dscan. Probes work, they can't cloak, you see them you shoot them. There is now a tackle ship people can go tackle with.
I'm ok with that. The interesting thing is are people just gonna have blobs of recons sat just off a wormhole with bait.
The difference between that and having the same fleet 15 Au away, nothing except time.
People aren't bringing armies of these
Yaay!!!!
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Navigation Boy
Edge of Existence
15
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Posted - 2014.12.19 01:26:48 -
[29] - Quote
I'd rather they made Recons 'invisible' to local channel. |
Datu Puki
Outer Ring Sleeper Collective Illusion of Solitude
14
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Posted - 2014.12.19 01:35:04 -
[30] - Quote
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:I propose we actually change combat recon ships to make you invisible in local chat... Then we can use them in Null sec
This would be far more useful then the dscan changes |
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