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ExarkunOFPR
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.12.19 00:52:58 -
[1] - Quote
So i first made this character back in 2006 and have played on and off over the years for short periods of time. What i always really wanted to do was mission running. Back when i played last Drakes were the thing to have for lvl 3s at least, and looking over the past couple years it seems that drakes got some balance changes so they may not be the best any more. hell when i loaded in i had to remove a launcher just to undock lol.
Right now i have 8.8million SPs and in the drake i currently have Using HAM launchers i just seem to kill things so slowly in lvl 3 missions. i am not sure if the agent matters but i am doing security missions for the caldari navy out of .6 system. all of my stuff is for the most part T2 and i have the support skills to IV and V depending on skill. My tank seems fine, in fact i might be over tanked since i seem to not take any damage when i have my shields turned on.
This is what i have right now
[Drake, Falcon] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 10MN Afterburner II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Salvager I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Hobgoblin II x5
Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile x3022
any advice would be appreciated
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7562
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Posted - 2014.12.19 01:12:09 -
[2] - Quote
one target painter and use faction ammo
reason being http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca/2013/09/missiles.html
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Paranoid Loyd
3083
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Posted - 2014.12.19 01:20:17 -
[3] - Quote
Consider using HMLs, they don't do as much paper DPS, but their range allows you to shoot sooner instead of flying closer to the target to use HAMs, meaning that while your DPS is lower your actual applied damage is a net gain, especially if your prop mod is a an AB not an MWD.
As Ralph mentioned application can also be improved with a target painter, using the precision missile on frigates will also cause them to die faster.
As you mentioned you are overtanked, consider swapping out some or all of the rigs for better missile damage application (rigors and flares)
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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ExarkunOFPR
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.12.19 01:21:53 -
[4] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Thanks that was a good read! |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2196
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Posted - 2014.12.19 01:22:42 -
[5] - Quote
when fitting a missile ship for missions, always use rigor and flare rigs. there is no excuse, other than maybe one hydraulic bay thruster for some more range. your tank is more than sufficient, in fact i would probably try replacing one shield extender with a target painter. this may also give you enough power grid to fit a microwarpdrive. god knows the drake can use one. if you find yourself warping out with 10% shields, put the extender back on, but the missile rigs are non-negotiable.
I should buy an Ishtar.
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ExarkunOFPR
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.12.19 01:23:55 -
[6] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Consider using HMLs, they don't do as much paper DPS, but their range allows you to shoot sooner instead of flying closer to the target to use HAMs, meaning that while your DPS is lower your actual applied damage is a net gain, especially if your prop mod is a an AB not an MWD.
As Ralph mentioned application can also be improved with a target painter, using the precision missile on frigates will also cause them to die faster.
As you mentioned you are overtanked, consider swapping out some or all of the rigs for better missile damage application (rigors and flares)
I am in fact currently training Heavy missiles V just for that reason. thanks for the tips on the rigs. i had a feeling i was over tanked |
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
301
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Posted - 2014.12.19 02:00:28 -
[7] - Quote
Moved to Ships & Modules.
ISD Decoy
Lieutenant Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1235
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Posted - 2014.12.19 03:09:38 -
[8] - Quote
Consider a DLA instead of the savager.
Remember with a Mobile Depot you can always refit for salvage whilst still in space after the room is cleared.
The depot will take up 50 m3 of cargo space though. |
Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
485
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Posted - 2014.12.19 04:56:07 -
[9] - Quote
ExarkunOFPR wrote:So i first made this character back in 2006 and have played on and off over the years for short periods of time. What i always really wanted to do was mission running. Back when i played last Drakes were the thing to have for lvl 3s at least, and looking over the past couple years it seems that drakes got some balance changes so they may not be the best any more. hell when i loaded in i had to remove a launcher just to undock lol.
Right now i have 8.8million SPs and in the drake i currently have Using HAM launchers i just seem to kill things so slowly in lvl 3 missions. i am not sure if the agent matters but i am doing security missions for the caldari navy out of .6 system. all of my stuff is for the most part T2 and i have the support skills to IV and V depending on skill. My tank seems fine, in fact i might be over tanked since i seem to not take any damage when i have my shields turned on.
This is what i have right now
[Drake, Falcon] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 10MN Afterburner II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Salvager I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Hobgoblin II x5
Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile x3022
any advice would be appreciated
It's taking forever to kill things because you're using HAM's on a Drake. Drakes are no longer the Swiss Army Knife of Eve any more and missiles in general have taken significant hits to their DPS and range.
If you insist on using a Drake to mission.
[Drake, L ASB Drake] Co-Processor II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150 Shield Boost Amplifier II Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile [empty high slot]
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5 Mobile Tractor Unit x1
Salvage with an alt or buddy. L3's are barely worth salvaging.
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ExarkunOFPR
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.12.19 07:26:06 -
[10] - Quote
Incindir Mauser wrote:ExarkunOFPR wrote:So i first made this character back in 2006 and have played on and off over the years for short periods of time. What i always really wanted to do was mission running. Back when i played last Drakes were the thing to have for lvl 3s at least, and looking over the past couple years it seems that drakes got some balance changes so they may not be the best any more. hell when i loaded in i had to remove a launcher just to undock lol.
Right now i have 8.8million SPs and in the drake i currently have Using HAM launchers i just seem to kill things so slowly in lvl 3 missions. i am not sure if the agent matters but i am doing security missions for the caldari navy out of .6 system. all of my stuff is for the most part T2 and i have the support skills to IV and V depending on skill. My tank seems fine, in fact i might be over tanked since i seem to not take any damage when i have my shields turned on.
This is what i have right now
[Drake, Falcon] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 10MN Afterburner II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Salvager I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Hobgoblin II x5
Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile x3022
any advice would be appreciated
It's taking forever to kill things because you're using HAM's on a Drake. Drakes are no longer the Swiss Army Knife of Eve any more and missiles in general have taken significant hits to their DPS and range. If you insist on using a Drake to mission. [Drake, L ASB Drake] Co-Processor II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150 Shield Boost Amplifier II Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile [empty high slot] Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Hobgoblin II x5 Mobile Tractor Unit x1 Salvage with an alt or buddy. L3's are barely worth salvaging. Well i am down for suggestions on other ships besides a drake |
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Gregor Parud
789
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Posted - 2014.12.19 09:53:01 -
[11] - Quote
I'm going to at least try and not sound like an arrogant ****; that second fit posted with an ASB and, somehow, shield extender rigs for a lvl 3 drake is so bad that person should be barred from giving people fitting advice. And with that out of the way lets try and be a bit more constructive, I'll explain the how and why so you have some "ammo" when people will, inevitably, tell you you're doing it wrong.
Since the missile changes a while ago missiles have issues applying their full damage even to "even size" targets, so heavy missiles (and HAM as well) lose ~35% applied dps even when firing at a slow boating Caracal, against slow boating frigs they lose about 75% and that all assumes max lvl 5 skills so with lesser skills the problem is even worse. Note that the damage application of HAMS isn't really any different from HML so it's not like HAM struggle more, as such the choice to go HML or HAM depends on the mission; if you can get away with short range HAM for that mission then do it and simply switch back to HML when you're faced with a long range situation.
To solve the massive damage application troubles you have 2 options:
1) fit a painter. It works fine as long as your targets are within optimal range of the painter, outside optimal it becomes RNG so you never really know if that painter is going to work when you hit a target at 60km which means you can't know how many volleys you'll need which in turn means you're wasting a ton of time. It also means that you have to activate that painter on every...single...target... you fire on, that is going to get annoying as hell and on top of that it also means you can't spread your weapon groups onto multiple targets. So painters.... not so much.
2) fit rigor/flare rigs, these give a massive boost in applying damage to targets that aren't "bigger" than your missiles (they won't work against BC or bigger) but then those aren't really a the problem in the first place and besides, other than rather radical solutions like fitting faction/t2 ammo or actually switching ship there's not much you can do about that. However, fitting those rigs means that you can't fit purger rigs, which in turn means you can't fit a shield regen fit. It did make good sense before the missile changes but now it's just a waste and a tired old meme perpetuated by the uninformed.
So, a lvl 3 fit drake should be active tanked to help and apply more damage to the majority of targets in those lvl 3 missions, thing is that if you tell that to people they'll laugh and call you an idiot because they lack understanding of game mechanics and rely on said tired old, mistaken meme. So simply ignore anyone telling you an active fit is wrong (it's also why I'm giving you the full explanation).
Since you'll do more dps to most targets it also means stuff dies faster and you'll be exposed less to incoming dps, which in turn means you won't need a silly massive tank in the first place. So here's a fit that will increase your applied dps (to anything smaller than a BC) meaning you will complete missions faster, at the "cost" of having to active tank and it not being cap stable (which requires 3 brain cells to operate, so it's out of reach of most people who will keep telling you you're doing it wrong).
Here's a fitting idea:
[Drake, lvl 3 Active Guristas] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II
10MN Afterburner II Small Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Thermic Dissipation Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Small Tractor Beam I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Hobgoblin II x5
- the small shield booster works just fine given how the Drake gets a resist bonus - switch to HAM depending on the mission - adapt resists per mission, the time you "waste" by changing them out (10 seconds) is easily won back by how more focussed your tank is meaning you need less slots to make it work, slots you can use for other stuff resulting in doing the mission a lot faster than those 10 seconds you wasted.
CBC like the drake can also fit MMJD which can be very useful both to get in range of stuff as to get out of trouble. However, actually fitting that thing causes massive issues in regards to PG/CPU and of course the loss of a slot. Because of that I'd only recommend it in a mission where you have to slow boat ~100km while the fight itself isn't really that difficult. |
Chal0ner
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
78
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Posted - 2014.12.19 09:57:10 -
[12] - Quote
ExarkunOFPR wrote: Well i am down for suggestions on other ships besides a drake
On the few occasions I PVE I've used either a Tengu or a Gila. Kindof another price range though ...but can be a reasonable goal to aim for maybe. |
Tuscor
United System's Commonwealth
84
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Posted - 2014.12.19 11:21:29 -
[13] - Quote
Gregor gives good advice. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2196
|
Posted - 2014.12.19 13:39:50 -
[14] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:I'm going to at least try and not sound like an arrogant ****; that second fit posted with an ASB and, somehow, shield extender rigs for a lvl 3 drake is so bad that person should be barred from giving people fitting advice. it's ok to sound arrogant when you're right. the asb fit was bad and the person who posted it should feel bad.
I should buy an Ishtar.
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Paul Panala
Black Research Industries
206
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Posted - 2014.12.19 16:03:37 -
[15] - Quote
The bottom line is that the Drake can no longer effectively do level 4 missions. It was over powered, CCP nerfed it, end of story. "Can" you run a level 4 with a Drake? With pretty good skills, yes, but it is painfully slow and a bit risky.
With HML you don't have the DPS to complete them timely, with HAMs you don't have the range and end up flying around a lot.
The classic cap stable passive Drake will work fine for level 3, use a different ship for Level 4. I would not suggest using any of the ASB fits people have posted for a mission. Keeping up with ASB charges is a pain and on the drake it is not needed at all.
(sorry for the goofy format, I am just typing this, not copying pasting from a tool) Highs HML x6 Tractor Beam
Meds LSE x2 Shield Recharger x1 10 MN Afterburner Adaptive x2
Low Ballistic x2 shield Power Relay x2
Rigs shield purger x2 shield extender |
Gregor Parud
790
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Posted - 2014.12.19 16:39:17 -
[16] - Quote
So not only are you spreading a lot of dumb stuff and a hilariously bad fit, it also does LESS dps than the fit he already uses.
Well done! |
Jazmyn Stone
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
170
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Posted - 2014.12.19 19:03:14 -
[17] - Quote
Well, I'm going to add in my 2 cents.
The bottom line is that there are many different fits that people can use. Sometimes it depends on their style of play: do they want to try and stay in one spot, or chase targets down; do they want to pulse a SB, or passive tank; or does one want to finish the mission as fast as one can.
I used to use a Drake for many years in running L3's. At the start, I had to have a good tank, because my damage output wasn't high. It seemed like I had to have passive shield recharge at about 75hp/s.
Today, If do I run a L3 in a Drake (for some ungodly reason now) this is what I use:
3 X Large purgers (yes, large purgers . . . I've had this boat for a long time)
Highs: 6 X HML II Caldari missiles - 404dps
Mids: 2 X LSE F-S9 (56 hp/s) 2 X Invul. Fld II or mission specific 1 X EM amp II or mission specific TP II (sometimes) or an AB
Lows: 4 X BCU II
5 X Lt Drones II
The Drake is made to have a passive fit. Because of the heavy missile nerf, the Drake isn't what it use to be. The Navy version isn't much better.
A while ago, I switch to the Ferox, when it got a buff, so for comparisons here is that fit:
2 X Anti-em (This is what's there, as I once used them for an Omni tank, I am thinking of changing them.) 1 X Anti-therm
Highs: 7 X 250 T2 rails (Caldari antimatter and thorium)
Mids: Pith LSB ( I had it, over kill with about 100hp/s 1 X Kinetic Fld II or mission spec 1 X Kinetic amp II or mission spec 1 X Thermic Amp II or mission spec Tracking Comp. II (tracking and optimal script)
Lows: 4 X MFS II
This thing puts out 602dps! Completes missions much faster than my Drake fitting above.
-Jaz
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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ExarkunOFPR
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.12.19 19:17:18 -
[18] - Quote
Wow guys thanks for all the info! gregor i have switched to those rigs and its working out a better so far. I am almost done training heavy missiles V so i can make the switch to Heavy Missile Launcher IIs. Once i get done with level 3s and move one to 4s i plan to try and get into a raven with cruise missiles and see how that goes. As far as a tengu goes well i could have the skills to sit in one in no time but he price and my skill level make me hesitate on even trying to get one. |
Gregor Parud
792
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Posted - 2014.12.19 19:19:51 -
[19] - Quote
ExarkunOFPR wrote:Wow guys thanks for all the info! gregor i have switched to those rigs and its working out a better so far. I am almost done training heavy missiles V so i can make the switch to Heavy Missile Launcher IIs. Once i get done with level 3s and move one to 4s i plan to try and get into a raven with cruise missiles and see how that goes. As far as a tengu goes well i could have the skills to sit in one in no time but he price and my skill level make me hesitate on even trying to get one.
Remember that thing about old and mistaken memes based on hearsay and lack of knowledge? Don't go for a Tengu if you want to do missions, get a Navy raven or Scorp instead (assuming you want to go missile ships). |
ExarkunOFPR
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.12.19 19:29:47 -
[20] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:ExarkunOFPR wrote:Wow guys thanks for all the info! gregor i have switched to those rigs and its working out a better so far. I am almost done training heavy missiles V so i can make the switch to Heavy Missile Launcher IIs. Once i get done with level 3s and move one to 4s i plan to try and get into a raven with cruise missiles and see how that goes. As far as a tengu goes well i could have the skills to sit in one in no time but he price and my skill level make me hesitate on even trying to get one. Remember that thing about old and mistaken memes based on hearsay and lack of knowledge? Don't go for a Tengu if you want to do missions, get a Navy raven or Scorp instead (assuming you want to go missile ships).
Yah once i can afford one i think i will jump into a raven |
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Jazmyn Stone
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
172
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Posted - 2014.12.19 19:46:02 -
[21] - Quote
ExarkunOFPR wrote:Wow guys thanks for all the info! gregor i have switched to those rigs and its working out a better so far. I am almost done training heavy missiles V so i can make the switch to Heavy Missile Launcher IIs. Once i get done with level 3s and move one to 4s i plan to try and get into a raven with cruise missiles and see how that goes. As far as a tengu goes well i could have the skills to sit in one in no time but he price and my skill level make me hesitate on even trying to get one.
For L4 missions, yes, skip the Tengu, and go for the Raven, but please be sure your support skills are good too. The Raven will work just fine. The Tengu used to be very good in L4s, but with the heavy missile nerf, it, like the Drake, is not what it use to be. Both can still have great tanks, and they can still get the job done, but not as efficiently as before.
Just like any other ship, there are always different ways of fitting a Raven. To start with, it may be beneficial to go with one of the older "cookie cutter" fits, like Liang's. Those fits only had 6 mid slots, that 7th really opened things up.
-Jaz
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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Chal0ner
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
82
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Posted - 2014.12.21 05:31:18 -
[22] - Quote
Jazmyn Stone wrote:The Tengu used to be very good in L4s, but with the heavy missile nerf, it, like the Drake, is not what it use to be. Both can still have great tanks, and they can still get the job done, but not as efficiently as before.
Hmm, have been away for quite a bit. So what you are saying is that my PVE win button is nerfed to hell? It's been doing fine in the anomalies I've tried it out in, but then they're not hard to begin with. I don't like ships larger than BCs really. Is there another small sized moneyboat to be had? I really enjoy the Gilas drone bonuses, cutting through npcs like a warm knife through butter =) And it looks cool.
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Gregor Parud
803
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Posted - 2014.12.21 09:07:38 -
[23] - Quote
Chal0ner wrote:Jazmyn Stone wrote:The Tengu used to be very good in L4s, but with the heavy missile nerf, it, like the Drake, is not what it use to be. Both can still have great tanks, and they can still get the job done, but not as efficiently as before.
Hmm, have been away for quite a bit. So what you are saying is that my PVE win button is nerfed to hell? It's been doing fine in the anomalies I've tried it out in, but then they're not hard to begin with. I don't like ships larger than BCs really. Is there another small sized moneyboat to be had? I really enjoy the Gilas drone bonuses, cutting through npcs like a warm knife through butter =) And it looks cool.
The Tengu is still good for kin/therm anoms but lvl 4 missions is something entirely different if only because you can fly bigger ships and not be at risk of getting caught. A CNR (assuming you stick to missile ships) works just better, some Pirate BS and of course Marauders also easily trump it. |
Arcos Vandymion
White Beast Inc.
95
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Posted - 2014.12.21 11:29:31 -
[24] - Quote
ExarkunOFPR wrote:Back when i played last Drakes were the thing to have for lvl 3s at least, and looking over the past couple years it seems that drakes got some balance changes so they may not be the best any more.
Is exactely it. The new old Drake is the Myrmidon. At 8.8m SP it might be a long stretch to suggest such a fundamentally different ship (armor, turret and drones vs. shield, missiles) but the application of Droneboat sentries (non-dedicated sentries aren't bad but don't really compare) is now what the previous Heavies were (before they got nerfed to kingdom come).
HMLs still apply good but their range compared to pre-nerf Heavies or Sentries with a single Drone Link Augmentor is ridiculous. |
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