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Erehwon Rorschach
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
113
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Posted - 2014.12.19 10:01:21 -
[1] - Quote
I'm just putting this out there to see how others in FW feel about recons not showing up on d-scan.
Is this something you'd like to see implemented or will it make the fights happen less frequently?
Especially for solo players, you'll never know exactly what you're going up against before it's too late.
How do you feel about this change? Do you support it?
Will you become more risk averse?
CCP Post Regarding changes
Because your mum just couldn't say no.
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1241
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Posted - 2014.12.19 10:05:24 -
[2] - Quote
Is this a thing? |
Erehwon Rorschach
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
113
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Posted - 2014.12.19 10:07:34 -
[3] - Quote
Just added the post from CCP for reference.
Curse, Lachesis, Huginn and Rook are the ships that will be removed from d-scan.
Because your mum just couldn't say no.
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1241
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Posted - 2014.12.19 10:14:56 -
[4] - Quote
I think they needed a tank buff. As for another feature, i wouldve thought 90km points and webs wouldve been enough since their paper tank was really the only reason they dont get used more.
For me personally, removing them from dscan is a huge problem for plex fighting. In general i was under the impression that if you didnt want to be on dscan you can just take the force counterpart and cloak lol. |
Erehwon Rorschach
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
114
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Posted - 2014.12.19 10:20:03 -
[5] - Quote
It certainly seems like solo pvp is constantly taking a bashing with these kind of changes.
And every fleet will now require a dedicated prober or someone in a gimped fit to scan plexes before a fleet makes the decision to go in.
Because your mum just couldn't say no.
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Dani Maulerant
Order of the Valkyrie LOADED-DICE
9
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Posted - 2014.12.19 10:38:22 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah, -1 from me big time on this. This will just really drive more push to keep FW life at frigate and destroyer level. |
Dreaded Vengance
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
48
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Posted - 2014.12.19 10:38:59 -
[7] - Quote
Not sure who's going to want to commit to a fight inside a med plex without cloaky eyes on the outside so might impact on small gang/solo fights for those that don't multibox. Might push further focus on smalls/novices for determining system control.
I think the d-scan thing may be a step too far, I mean look at the Curse. With an improved resist line it'll take reps much better even in small/med gangs, just one on field can swing a fight so making it piratically invisible may make folks even more twitchy about taking fights than they already are. IMO if you want to use stealth, well, that's what a Pilgrims for.
Having said that I've got recon V and a bunch in my hanger...so I'll be turning up late for fights I guess!
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Arla Sarain
189
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Posted - 2014.12.19 13:40:15 -
[8] - Quote
Rest of the game sees FW pilots as plebs and generalises everyone in FW as "halp i am 4stabbed attcked y pirats". Doubt anyone cares about the implications this brings to FW.
At least a force recon decloaking midst warp can be seen on D-Scan. Combat recons will just land, lock and slowpwn people. This is not even considering the mess inside plexs.
Yet the devthread is full of people who adore the idea. |
Jeann Valjean
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
54
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Posted - 2014.12.19 13:45:23 -
[9] - Quote
Thought about this, and I don't think it'll make any difference for FW.
1) I don't think many people in lowsec will be flying recons unscouted through gates to go offensive plexing. At least not when FW starts to heat back up from the current lull.
2) People complained about the same thing when scan inhibitors were introduced, and they haven't affected the plex meta either.
3) It's not "gimping" a fit to add a probe if that probe is suddenly very useful. A Stratios can fit a cloak, probe, has drones for DPS. If you're solo and worried about recons destroying your T1 30-mil ISK cruiser, then fly a stratios. You'll only lose it if you're bad. |
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
1820
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Posted - 2014.12.19 14:35:12 -
[10] - Quote
The change will be significant. Combat Recons will become an integral part of any small group PvP. It's also not just FW and plexes - any low sec PVE endeavor just became a lot more risky. |
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1242
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Posted - 2014.12.19 15:10:55 -
[11] - Quote
Jeann Valjean wrote:Thought about this, and I don't think it'll make any difference for FW.
1) I don't think many people in lowsec will be flying recons unscouted through gates to go offensive plexing. At least not when FW starts to heat back up from the current lull.
2) People complained about the same thing when scan inhibitors were introduced, and they haven't affected the plex meta either.
3) It's not "gimping" a fit to add a probe if that probe is suddenly very useful. A Stratios can fit a cloak, probe, has drones for DPS. If you're solo and worried about recons destroying your T1 30-mil ISK cruiser, then fly a stratios. You'll only lose it if you're bad.
Just not true, i fly a 300m isk kite with 2000ehp. 2 completely undetectable recons land and suddenly my kite frigate is in a 160-170km diameter killzone. No decloak recal, no warning.
Im pretty sure there wont be a medium plex that isnt regularly visited by a recon anywhere in the warzone because :norisk: |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
2818
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Posted - 2014.12.19 15:11:43 -
[12] - Quote
Sounds good to me.
Novice, Small and Large plexes not affected.
Medium plexes have a higher chance to have some surprises inside. Enter at your own risk, or be the one camping it in a Combat Recon, or use a bait ship.
Harder intel and less predictability is good.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1242
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Posted - 2014.12.19 15:15:38 -
[13] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Sounds good to me.
Novice, Small and Large plexes not affected.
Medium plexes have a higher chance to have some surprises inside. Enter at your own risk, or be the one camping it in a Combat Recon, or use a bait ship.
Harder intel and less predictability is good.
Predictably dying regardless of how much attention you are paying is not less predictable. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
2818
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Posted - 2014.12.19 15:25:04 -
[14] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Sounds good to me.
Novice, Small and Large plexes not affected.
Medium plexes have a higher chance to have some surprises inside. Enter at your own risk, or be the one camping it in a Combat Recon, or use a bait ship.
Harder intel and less predictability is good. Predictably dying regardless of how much attention you are paying is not less predictable. The recons warping into you, or camping the plex you are warping in to, cannot know if you're alone or with a couple of recon friends of your own.
EDIT: agree on the Larges, but it does take some effort; I was referring mostly to effortless camping.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1243
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Posted - 2014.12.19 15:35:18 -
[15] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Sounds good to me.
Novice, Small and Large plexes not affected.
Medium plexes have a higher chance to have some surprises inside. Enter at your own risk, or be the one camping it in a Combat Recon, or use a bait ship.
Harder intel and less predictability is good. Predictably dying regardless of how much attention you are paying is not less predictable. The recons warping into you, or camping the plex you are warping in to, cannot know if you're alone or with a couple of recon friends of your own. EDIT: agree on the Larges, but it does take some effort; I was referring mostly to effortless camping.
The whole thing is pointless. One group pull a recon on me, i never fight them ever again. Im not in the game to give people easy kills.
As for me having recon, a simple local count would usually cover that where i fly. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
517
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Posted - 2014.12.19 15:48:43 -
[16] - Quote
Here's the dev blog: Recon Changes
By the way, I don't see many people flying a Curse. Not when the Pilgrim is going to be just as good and can warp cloaked. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
517
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Posted - 2014.12.19 15:53:41 -
[17] - Quote
Also, this isn't just going to be detrimental to FW, think of the people in WHs. |
Jeann Valjean
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
54
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Posted - 2014.12.19 15:59:07 -
[18] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:I don't see many people flying a Curse. Not when the Pilgrim is going to be just as good and can warp cloaked.
Because Curse has a 100% bonus to neut/nos transfer amount? And being invisible on dscan is roughly a billion times more advantageous than cloaking, scientifically speaking.
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
2818
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Posted - 2014.12.19 15:59:12 -
[19] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:[The whole thing is pointless. One group pull a recon on me, i never fight them ever again. Im not in the game to give people easy kills. Or i just form a fleet to go kill them and they peace out. Or form a fleet with recons, so, recons become compulsory counters to recons. Its just dumb imo.
As for me having recon, a simple local count would usually cover that where i fly. I see what you mean.
But isn't it the same as, say, gatecamps, 'excessive' ECM or even the current cloaky recons?
People that abuse them, at least in Black Rise, get their arses handed to them by appropriate counters until they give up.
And again, this is 95% about medium FW complexes. You may be right, but I'm more interested in seeing how the meta evolves with this shake-up than worried that it will be 100% bad.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Dreaded Vengance
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
48
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Posted - 2014.12.19 16:01:12 -
[20] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Here's the dev blog: Recon ChangesBy the way, I don't see many people flying a Curse. Not when the Pilgrim is going to be just as good and can warp cloaked.
Better tank and more neuting power will see the Curse slip into AHAC fleets nicely.....plus you can't see it on d-scan so if off grid it's effectively a cloak without the drawbacks. |
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
518
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Posted - 2014.12.19 16:07:41 -
[21] - Quote
I really can't see the d-scan immunity staying in the long run. I'm waiting for Goons to show how badly broken it is after Proteus hits.
WH space now belonga to Gewns!!!! LOL |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1248
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Posted - 2014.12.19 16:07:58 -
[22] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:[
And again, this is 95% about medium FW complexes. You may be right, but I'm more interested in seeing how the meta evolves with this shake-up than worried that it will be 100% bad.
TBH, i dont see much of a distinction between large and med plexes. I predict that these will be used offensively. Meaning that if they sit in a medium all day people will soon know about them.
Far more likely is that they simply enter a system, dscan the med and large, get cloaky eyes in the large or put a disposable alt into the medium if local count is unaccounted for. Then enter plexes and kill targets with little risk at will.
Personally my alt is a perfect prober and a near perfect falcon so im covered, however, small roaming gangs of combat recons are gonna be very hard to evade, super hard to chase, and extremely hard to engage if they dont want to. Its just a really boring and unneeded meta that imo will be somewhat compulsory to adopt.
Im sure it will be fun for the people roaming in untouchable recon gangs though. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
518
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Posted - 2014.12.19 16:17:35 -
[23] - Quote
My issue is that there really is no difference between the 2, except the combat recons don't have that small targeting delay. I'd rather combat recons were immune to EWAR and Neuts. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1248
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Posted - 2014.12.19 16:25:25 -
[24] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:My issue is that there really is no difference between the 2, except the combat recons don't have that small targeting delay. I'd rather combat recons were immune to EWAR and Neuts.
I dunno, as long as they last more than 10 seconds on grid, the ewar tug of war is one of the most entertaining aspects of any reasonably equal fight, second to logi. With extra tank and the feature-set they already had im sure they would be very popular in fleets. With a slot layout pass to make armour tanking some of them an option.
No one has ever said they dont fly recon because they have **** tank and they appear on dscan. In fact, im not sure at all what inebriate ever thought that appearing on dscan was a problem that needed fixing. It just sounds like off the wall brainstorming. |
Arla Sarain
196
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Posted - 2014.12.19 22:56:29 -
[25] - Quote
Jeann Valjean wrote:.
2) People complained about the same thing when scan inhibitors were introduced, and they haven't affected the plex meta either.
Don't see this as a good example.
Scan Inhibitors themselves show up on DSCAN, just not what's inside.
Crosi Wesdo wrote:sounds like off the wall brainstorming. It is/has to be. The thing where CCP wants to be braver and do things as mentioned in the last o7 episode. |
Julius Foederatus
Spiritus Draconis
236
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Posted - 2014.12.20 00:23:30 -
[26] - Quote
Not surprised that Rise is in charge of a change this monumentally bad. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2705
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Posted - 2014.12.20 00:58:46 -
[27] - Quote
Cloak delay = Seeing the combat recon warp in.
So the real issue is instances where the dude is sitting where YOU warp into.
To counter this: Probes, Lists (screw me once, shame on me, screw me twice and you're blueballed)
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Plato Forko
Forko Nanorobotics
112
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Posted - 2014.12.20 01:05:10 -
[28] - Quote
It looks like the prices for all combat recons have gone up by ~50m and, as expected, the Curse has seen by far the largest increase in demand since the change was announced.
*buys Celestises before the price goes up*
There's nothin' like skating away from a fight with the hull on fire, some mods burned out and a cargohold full of loot.
See my terribad blog for stories.
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Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
474
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Posted - 2014.12.20 04:51:26 -
[29] - Quote
still wont make people fly pimp ships in fw. will only be rifters still.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Joni Hariere
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
30
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Posted - 2014.12.20 11:00:10 -
[30] - Quote
So everything good stops sometimes.
While removing recons from d-scan, you can remove medium and large plexes from fw. |
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