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Waltaratzor
Waltmart
8
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Posted - 2014.12.21 06:29:16 -
[1] - Quote
So I was recently told by CCP Logibro to open a ticket for EULA related concerns regarding mice macros(and presumably other EULA concerns as well) as this is the only authoritative source of information.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5323776#post5323776
I went in game and opened a ticket regarding whether or not I could use a macro that activates all my hardeners at once, as there is debate on this issue. The in game GM told me to post my question on the forums and seek clarification from CCP devs here.
So I come seeking clarification on who I am supposed to get clarification from on EULA related issues. The forums? in game tickets? A third source I don't know about? |
Memphis Baas
27
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Posted - 2014.12.21 06:32:11 -
[2] - Quote
I think the answer is "no" on that macro. Activating all hardeners at once counts as multiple effects from one click. |
Waltaratzor
Waltmart
9
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Posted - 2014.12.21 06:43:39 -
[3] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:I think the answer is "no" on that macro. Activating all hardeners at once counts as multiple effects from one click.
If you read through the thread I posted both sides make good arguments as to whether this macro is allowed or not allowed.
For instance, the chart below was provided by CCP Random, but I have another CCP source which suggests the chart isn't authoritative as its from an ingame ticket while my ingame ticket source tells me to go to the forums.
http://i.imgur.com/FGst7B5.png?1
I hope you can understand my confusion. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
18682
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Posted - 2014.12.21 06:58:19 -
[4] - Quote
Dev on the forum tells you to open a support ticket.
GM from support ticket tells you to go to the forum and talk to dev.
CCP once again proving that Dev/GM troll is best troll.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
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Shailagh Rose
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.12.21 07:05:58 -
[5] - Quote
Isd troll inc for hattrick.
And btw.. ITS A FACT 68% OF LOCKED/MOVED/DELETED POSTS/THREADS WOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT ALONE 2YRS AGO.
Yes we all know the rules, we also all drive 5mph/kph over the speed limit. Yes we should be scolded and delt with, yet usually we are allowed to go about our business by the cops. Very recently isds have changed and now ticket/fine even 1mph over speed limit. This wasnt used to be thw case and its A FACT THAT ISDS ARE DIFFEREMT NoW |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3656
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Posted - 2014.12.21 07:33:43 -
[6] - Quote
Removed a post discussing moderation.
As for your issue OP, I have no official say on what the rules are, but I will advise that if you think it's against the rules, it probably is. Even if it's just activating all hardeners at once.
So, not even once. Automatic input is not recommended.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5635
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Posted - 2014.12.21 07:40:44 -
[7] - Quote
Waltaratzor wrote:So I was recently told by CCP Logibro to open a ticket for EULA related concerns regarding mice macros(and presumably other EULA concerns as well) as this is the only authoritative source of information.
That sounds about right. If the GM told you to take it to the forums, I would suggest escalating that support ticket. Ask for a senior GM to give it some attention. Failing that, I would go full thermonuclear warfare and poke one of the CCP folks on Twitter (who won't necessarily be game-rule related devs, but might at least know who you should be bothering). There's also the CSM who, having had contact with various devs directly, might have a better idea of who to escalate to. If you are nice enough they might even champion your cause and ensure that you get a response. But I'm not a CSM so I'm not giving any warranties on that advice.
As for your "activating all hardeners" issue:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=117249#post117249
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
1854
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Posted - 2014.12.21 07:40:45 -
[8] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Dev on the forum tells you to open a support ticket.
GM from support ticket tells you to go to the forum and talk to dev.
CCP once again proving that Dev/GM troll is best troll. its the circle of life |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7079
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Posted - 2014.12.21 08:18:15 -
[9] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Dev on the forum tells you to open a support ticket.
GM from support ticket tells you to go to the forum and talk to dev.
I talked to CCP Yossarian and he said this is perfectly normal.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
599
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Posted - 2014.12.21 11:12:58 -
[10] - Quote
Even if some GM tells you it is ok, some other GM may still think it's cheating and ban you over it.
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
223
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Posted - 2014.12.21 11:22:08 -
[11] - Quote
It's been clarified....
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/holiday-greetings-team-security/?_ga=1.56703274.1259077967.1406127097
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Sol Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
701
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Posted - 2014.12.21 12:26:32 -
[12] - Quote
You should petition the link and tell GMs to read it.
This is kind of getting out of hand ...
Funny christmas video
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
225
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Posted - 2014.12.21 13:00:02 -
[13] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:You should petition the link and tell GMs to read it. This is kind of getting out of hand ...
Yeah it is a bit.
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Waltaratzor
Waltmart
16
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Posted - 2014.12.21 19:04:03 -
[14] - Quote
That ruling says "any use of macros to interact with the game world is prohibited by EULA now, and has always been." There are historical dev posts who have said activating all your hardeners at once is okay. So if there policy is the same as it has always been this macro should be fine, but if macros that interact with the world aren't allowed then it isn't okay.
See https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=117249#post117249
However, there is a bigger problem. The forum dev post states the any answer other than an ingame ticket is not authoritative. So that blog post isn't an authoritative source. But the in game ticket staff is directing me to out of game sources, which makes me think the GMs do consider those authoritative. |
Sol Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
738
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Posted - 2014.12.21 19:09:28 -
[15] - Quote
Waltaratzor wrote:That ruling says "any use of macros to interact with the game world is prohibited by EULA now, and has always been." There are historical GM posts who have said activating all your hardeners at once is okay. So if there policy is the same as it has always been this macro should be fine, but if macros that interact with the world aren't allowed then it isn't okay. See https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=117249#post117249 However, there is a bigger problem. The forum dev post states the any answer other than an ingame ticket is not authoritative. So that blog post isn't an authoritative source. But the in game ticket staff is directing me to out of game sources, which makes me think the GMs do consider those authoritative. Imagine the dev asked the GMs, or the other way round.
People talk with eachother, so I've heard. Of all people I would assume that a member of Team Security knows what his job is and why he enforces it.
Funny christmas video
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Iain Cariaba
796
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Posted - 2014.12.21 19:16:28 -
[16] - Quote
Simple solution to whether or not it violates EULA.
Does a single press of a button perform more than one action?
Yes, then it violates the EULA. No, then in does not violate the EULA.
Definition of macro, according to Webster's dictionary.
They are called macro keys because you can make macros with them, but if the button only performs one action, then it is, by definition, not a macro.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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Mag's
the united
18327
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Posted - 2014.12.21 19:20:59 -
[17] - Quote
This is getting beyond a joke now tbh.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Evei Shard
Shard Industries
417
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Posted - 2014.12.21 19:40:36 -
[18] - Quote
Waltaratzor wrote:So I was recently told by CCP Logibro to open a ticket for EULA related concerns regarding mice macros(and presumably other EULA concerns as well) as this is the only authoritative source of information. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5323776#post5323776 I went in game and opened a ticket regarding whether or not I could use a macro that activates all my hardeners at once, as there is debate on this issue. The in game GM told me to post my question on the forums and seek clarification from CCP devs here. So I come seeking clarification on who I am supposed to get clarification from on EULA related issues. The forums? in game tickets? A third source I don't know about?
Welcome to the CCPing Pong, where they constantly send you back and forth between tickets and forums, instead of actually addressing the problem.
Profit favors the prepared
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Quanah Comanche
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2014.12.21 19:41:06 -
[19] - Quote
Quit clogging the pipes with this smelly cargo.
Macros are macros are macros. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7692
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Posted - 2014.12.21 19:56:06 -
[20] - Quote
Don't use macros , it's not that hard, ccp tend to be vague about exactly what will garner you a slap in the unmentionables. Hot key all day long just don't tie them all together as ccp are being sketchy about answers (fairly good warning sign that it's potential trouble)
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Serene Repose
1827
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Posted - 2014.12.21 20:37:29 -
[21] - Quote
I'm in the "click them one at a time" camp. We can never make ganking too complicated.
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Waltaratzor
Waltmart
16
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Posted - 2014.12.21 20:39:35 -
[22] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Don't use macros , it's not that hard, ccp tend to be vague about exactly what will garner you a slap in the unmentionables. Hot key all day long just don't tie them all together as ccp are being sketchy about answers (fairly good warning sign that it's potential trouble)
They haven't been vague though. I linked a post from a CCP gm who explicitly allowed it and a link from a CCP dev who implicitly forbid it while saying their is no change in macro policy.
To my mind they have just been contradictory. My guess is that the recent changes directed at multibroadcasting accidently have implications for macros on a single character. The blog post suggests this is an accident because the dev stated their macro policy is the same as always and historically these macros have been allowed.
I wanted to get clarification on this, but I don't know who to contact. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
21328
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Posted - 2014.12.21 20:50:06 -
[23] - Quote
The statement from Team Security is very unambiguous. CCP Random's mockup of a EULA flowchart has a multiboxing slant because it was designed for the multiboxing-centric Sticky in GD started by Falcon.
It's very clear that any keypress or click that spawns multiple keypresses or clicks, whether you do it with one client or many, will be EULA breaking.
If you're going to continue ignoring the communication that CCP has provided, then I think this topic is a duplicate of the thread already created for this matter.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Sugar Smacks
State War Academy Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2014.12.21 21:24:30 -
[24] - Quote
Team security said macros are not allowed. They further said they were never allowed.
If a rule isn't enforced it doesn't make it any more legal.
You have had plenty of warning now, enforcements coming, no excuse to what is coming. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7698
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Posted - 2014.12.21 21:35:32 -
[25] - Quote
Waltaratzor wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Don't use macros , it's not that hard, ccp tend to be vague about exactly what will garner you a slap in the unmentionables. Hot key all day long just don't tie them all together as ccp are being sketchy about answers (fairly good warning sign that it's potential trouble) They haven't been vague though. I linked a post from a CCP gm who explicitly allowed it and a link from a CCP dev who implicitly forbid it while saying their is no change in macro policy. To my mind they have just been contradictory. My guess is that the recent changes directed at multibroadcasting accidently have implications for macros on a single character. The blog post suggests this is an accident because the dev stated their macro policy is the same as always and historically these macros have been allowed. I wanted to get clarification on this, but I don't know who to contact. Macros have always been a bad idea. You just got a mouse with 12 thumb buttons, just hot key away and keep the macros For other functions with less bannhammery implications i.e. not eve (which is very much the vibe I'm getting off of this)
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Elena Ranning
008Bezirk322sschornsteinfeg432ermeiste0191r
40
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Posted - 2014.12.21 22:46:26 -
[26] - Quote
you can use help channel to ask questions and read ansers about the eula for eve players it does not matter if you are docked or not
also LG electrnics makes mouse which is not macro same as Logitec i think u can safley use that and remember never fly what u cant afford to lose. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1808
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Posted - 2014.12.21 23:47:28 -
[27] - Quote
Waltaratzor wrote:
They haven't been vague though. I linked a post from a CCP gm who explicitly allowed it and a link from a CCP dev who implicitly forbid it while saying their is no change in macro policy.
To my mind they have just been contradictory. My guess is that the recent changes directed at multibroadcasting accidently have implications for macros on a single character. The blog post suggests this is an accident because the dev stated their macro policy is the same as always and historically these macros have been allowed.
I wanted to get clarification on this, but I don't know who to contact.
Actually the GM link you posted did NOT allow it. It just said they don't normally ban for that level of Macro. But it is still a Macro, is against the EULA and thus CAN be banned for, even if they normally don't bother.
Reading what is actually said rather than what you wish the words to say helps. Add to that than any forum posts are considered outdated when the new rules come into effect as well.
So they are not contradictory, and Macro's always have been banned. They have just been nice and not enforced it on very minor cases, but that doesn't change the law. It's like a cop not ticketing you for going 51 in a 50 zone, still illegal, he's just got better things to do with his time. |
Waltaratzor
Waltmart
21
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Posted - 2014.12.21 23:53:27 -
[28] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Waltaratzor wrote:
They haven't been vague though. I linked a post from a CCP gm who explicitly allowed it and a link from a CCP dev who implicitly forbid it while saying their is no change in macro policy.
To my mind they have just been contradictory. My guess is that the recent changes directed at multibroadcasting accidently have implications for macros on a single character. The blog post suggests this is an accident because the dev stated their macro policy is the same as always and historically these macros have been allowed.
I wanted to get clarification on this, but I don't know who to contact.
Actually the GM link you posted did NOT allow it. It just said they don't normally ban for that level of Macro. But it is still a Macro, is against the EULA and thus CAN be banned for, even if they normally don't bother. Reading what is actually said rather than what you wish the words to say helps. Add to that than any forum posts are considered outdated when the new rules come into effect as well. So they are not contradictory, and Macro's always have been banned. They have just been nice and not enforced it on very minor cases, but that doesn't change the law. It's like a cop not ticketing you for going 51 in a 50 zone, still illegal, he's just got better things to do with his time.
This is why I want an actual clarification from CCP. Because we have gotten at least 3 distinct opinions in the thread from people who all think their opinion is obviously true. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1808
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Posted - 2014.12.21 23:55:48 -
[29] - Quote
Waltaratzor wrote: This is why I want an actual clarification from CCP. Because we have gotten at least 3 distinct opinions in the thread from people who all think their opinion is obviously true.
Read the EULA, it's VERY clear on Macro use. |
Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
473
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Posted - 2014.12.22 00:13:34 -
[30] - Quote
I would consider any ruling issued prior to the updated statement from team security to be null and void. Certainly a post from 2011 is highly suspect given the changes in the last couple of months.
Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!
This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury
It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
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