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Sugar Smacks
State War Academy Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2014.12.22 07:09:16 -
[1] - Quote
Well i just had the pleasure of finally getting my Planetology in Hi-sec finished and delivered to the customs office.
Now i can't get anything out of it. I ask why, and find its player owned and they dont allow people to use it basically.
This made me laugh as i just wasted much money on this and there was NO advanced warning this could happen. Heck there wasn't even a warning on EVELOPEDIA this could even happen. Now i sit back and despise the fact i even chose planetology and can't figure out why my alt is even bothering to train it for christmas.
All in all i just would like to know how your supposed to avoid this mechanic especially when its obviously targeted at the new player base? How sad for this game. |
ISD Supogo
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
359
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Posted - 2014.12.22 07:48:30 -
[2] - Quote
As far as I can tell, what you can do for starters is right-click on the planet in question, choose the customs office menu for it, then in that menu click Show Info. You'll get a pop-up that tells you about the Customs Office including who owns it. It then falls to you to check standings and ask around to determine if you'd be able to use it or not, that is, are you on friendly terms with that corp / alliance?
ISD Supogo
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6874
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Posted - 2014.12.22 07:53:18 -
[3] - Quote
Here is my basic understanding of POCOs...
- players can own just about everything in EVE except stations in empire space (1.0 to 0.1 security).
- the materials that come out of planets are on a 1 hour cycle. You will not get your first shipment right away.
- what does the tax rate on the POCO interface say? If it is 100% then you will get nothing. If it isn't, check to see how your corp (if any) is rated against the corp that owned the POCO.
- there should be an option to bypass the POCO entirely and rocket up your goods in a jetcan. The problems with this are... ----- anyone can pick it the stuff in that jetcan ----- you can only launch so much of your goods in one go ----- you do not have much storage space on a planet.
Beyond this I need more context. - Is the POCO located in high-sec, low-sec, null-sec, or wormhole space (check the security rating the system in the upper left)? - Did you set up your planetary equipment correctly?
Also... a few general tips:
- in EVE, you rarely get advanced warning on anything. Everything in this game is about research and trial and error.
- EVELOPEDIA is dated and almost never updated. CCP has typically never been "good with the details." To be fair though, there is so much minute information about EVE and information shifts so much that the moment they update anything it will already be "obsolete."
- in EVE, no one is guaranteed success in anything. Despite the amount of time and effort they put into it. Think of this game as a perpetual "rat race" where there is no exit and the cheese randomly teleports around (and is full of razor blades).
In short... do not let your current setback get you down. See it as something that will hone your abilities on what to do and not to do.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Chal0ner
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
82
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Posted - 2014.12.22 08:32:47 -
[4] - Quote
I wasn't aware that you could prevent anyone else than your corp to get stuff out of a POCO. Then it's some time I fiddled with those. That said: Always check to owner of a poco and tax before establishing your PI installations. I've avoided planets based on that in the past. |
Sugar Smacks
State War Academy Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2014.12.22 09:49:16 -
[5] - Quote
It sure would of been nice had this HI SEC customs office not took all my money for transfers and not given me any kind of warning in the end i wouldn't be able to withdraw anything.
It generaly feels like a scam now.
Please do not use any kind of "this is the way EVE is" because it wasn't just a short time ago. |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1552
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Posted - 2014.12.22 10:37:36 -
[6] - Quote
New to me too.
File a petition, maybe it's a bug that you can upload your stuff but not get it released. It all sounds very iffy to me. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5108
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Posted - 2014.12.22 12:01:38 -
[7] - Quote
If you can upload it to the PoCo, you should be able to retrieve it. You either can use all the functions or none at all. So likely a bug or some small user error (like not being within pick up range or something). Bug report it.
But for the cost it takes to use....
That is just EVE. It is a player custom office, so players can set the player part of the tax you pay. But smart people dont set it too high as then nobody will use 'your' planet and thus you dont get any income. The exception iz if you want to drive of competition on said planet to make your facilities slightly better.
P.s.
There isnt many warning in EVE. Cause it isnt the hand holding type of game. You do a lot of your own research or just go by good old trial & error with the possibility of losing (a lot) of ISK.
And I highly suggest not to use the official wiki but the EVE uni wiki. Why, cause CCP's own wiki is horribly out of date on some things while the EVE Uni wiki is maintained pretty good by their members.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
799
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Posted - 2014.12.22 18:25:57 -
[8] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:Now i can't get anything out of it. I ask why, and find its player owned and they dont allow people to use it basically. I haven't heard of this before either. Have you used the customs office interface before? If not how are you trying to retrieve from it? As stated above, if you can upload to it you should be able to take from it. The tax can be set to anything (100%), but that is a different matter and easy to check before you use the planet.
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Orlacc
694
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Posted - 2014.12.22 18:46:51 -
[9] - Quote
If you were able to upload from the planet and pay any tax, you should be able to retrieve your items. If not, it is a bug.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Paranoid Loyd
3192
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Posted - 2014.12.22 18:51:13 -
[10] - Quote
Are you sure you sent it to the customs office and didn't launch it into space? There are two different mechanics to getting your stuff off the planet.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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Eldwinn
SomeWhat SophiSticateD Shadow Cartel
222
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Posted - 2014.12.22 18:53:29 -
[11] - Quote
You cannot hinder a person from using the POCO. However you can set the tax to say 100% for reds. Petition it. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5113
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Posted - 2014.12.22 18:59:03 -
[12] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Are you sure you sent it to the customs office and didn't launch it into space? There are two different mechanics to getting your stuff off the planet.
Yeah totally forgot about this option.
Are you use the launchpad or command center?
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
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Sugar Smacks
State War Academy Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:09:30 -
[13] - Quote
I launched it to the customs office then sat about 1000 meters from it and could not withdraw it.
It is not like i only spent a short time on this, i could literally not take it out of the customs office.
The point im trying to make is, how can people encourage others to do this, when they cant even get their stuff out of the customs offfice in HI sec? How exactly is this not just griefing as it is just targeted at new people? It seems really borderline when the mechanic targets the new player to do the most damage.
If this all falls under "intent", then it is also my intent to tell people exactly what they are in for and not to bother training for such a wasteful skill that others will just block you from the get go.
At least update Evelopedia for god sakes. Right now you get to the end and its a big surprise you just flushed all your money away. WELCOME TO EVE! |
Paranoid Loyd
3193
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:11:58 -
[14] - Quote
Did you even read the replies? What you are describing should not be happening, you are either confused or there is a bug.
I will ask again, did you use the launch pad or the command center to get your things off the planet?
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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Sugar Smacks
State War Academy Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:33:06 -
[15] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Did you even read the replies? What you are describing should not be happening, you are either confused or there is a bug.
I will ask again, did you use the launch pad or the command center to get your things off the planet?
Yes it was launched and entered into the customs office. Did you not get that part where i said i sat off 1000 meters from it and couldn't get it out?
When the oldest members get to directly pick on the newest members it doesn't make the game very interesting. |
Paranoid Loyd
3195
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:39:27 -
[16] - Quote
You still haven't answered the question. We can't help you until you do.
Did you use a launch pad or the command center?
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1614
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:42:16 -
[17] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:The point im trying to make is, how can people encourage others to do this, when they cant even get their stuff out of the customs offfice in HI sec? How exactly is this not just griefing as it is just targeted at new people?
I have a feeling it is targetted at people in NPC corporations as these taxes need to be set deliberately. It has nothing to do with noobs and nothing to do with griefing. You are free to wardec the owners. Oh wait. you are in an NPC corp. You don't have an actual corp you can rally, my mistake. It's easily explained why NPC corps get barred from POCO usage. Some people feel it's not fair NPC corp members are always exempt from wardecs. There you go!
Not to be an ass but did you do the whole export step where stuff is dragged from left to light column? Or are you just trying to drag from the right column into your cargohold? |
Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
799
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:49:32 -
[18] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Not to be an ass but did you do the whole export step where stuff is dragged from left to light column? Or are you just trying to drag from the right column into your cargohold? I suspect this. If not, what is the error message when you are unable to move to your cargo?
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5113
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:50:07 -
[19] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:I launched it to the customs office then sat about 1000 meters from it and could not withdraw it.
It is not like i only spent a short time on this, i could literally not take it out of the customs office.
The point im trying to make is, how can people encourage others to do this, when they cant even get their stuff out of the customs offfice in HI sec? How exactly is this not just griefing as it is just targeted at new people? It seems really borderline when the mechanic targets the new player to do the most damage.
If this all falls under "intent", then it is also my intent to tell people exactly what they are in for and not to bother training for such a wasteful skill that others will just block you from the get go.
At least update Evelopedia for god sakes. Right now you get to the end and its a big surprise you just flushed all your money away. WELCOME TO EVE!
Okay. I'm done with this.
Obviously you are raging so hard you didn't even took the time to read that all the replies said it shouldn't be like that and you likely found a bug if it is true what you are saying (unless, as stated, you paid 100% tax and everything you export is confiscated. Which in itself is perfectly legal and you are no way forced to use that planet).
In the case that it is a bug: It is not targeting anybody as it is a bug. Bug report it and if CCP sees it is a bug, they will likely return your stuff to you.
In the case it is a 100% tax thing: It is not targeting New players, it's targeting everybody.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5113
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:51:01 -
[20] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Did you even read the replies? What you are describing should not be happening, you are either confused or there is a bug.
I will ask again, did you use the launch pad or the command center to get your things off the planet? Yes it was launched and entered into the customs office. Did you not get that part where i said i sat off 1000 meters from it and couldn't get it out? When the oldest members get to directly pick on the newest members it doesn't make the game very interesting.
U mad bro?
Let me make it clear so that even YOU can understand it.
It is likely a BUG. Bug-report it. OR it could be that everybody that matches a certain condition (aka, not friends / not in corp) pays 100% tax on that PoCo, neither of which is griefing nor New player harassment
Is it clear now?
p.s. That is, if this is true. It is getting higher and higher on the troll ladder.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1617
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:04:45 -
[21] - Quote
One more comment: new players that feel in some way deterred to mess with PI because of this: don't buy into the griefing message. The whole point of these POCOs is for people to wage corporate war over, to insure low taxes for their allies and high taxes for their enemies. This system works and is one of the keystones of how you can play the game. Get leverage first, then enter diplomacy and make deals with other entities. Remember those old games like Masters of Orion that you could win purely by economical or diplomatical means? Now imagine each race being an actual group of players, owning said customs. |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
231
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Posted - 2014.12.22 21:24:10 -
[22] - Quote
It's not a bug. it happened to me.
The tax was 7% with my skills, but when I came to collect it from the poco I couldn't as my standings were not sufficient.
It seems to happen a lot in HS, whether it should is a different matter.
Maybe there needs to be a warning before launch stating that you can't retrieve your goods from the customs office....
I just used the command center then removed it. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1617
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Posted - 2014.12.22 21:50:07 -
[23] - Quote
...or maybe you are supposed to reasearch the owning party to see whether your investment with them is a good idea? This is an MMO, and not too long ago hisec's COs have gained the exact same mechanics as everywhere else in the game, with a NPC tax on top. As a lowsec player I can tell you owners wil need at least enough deterrence (read: capable PVPers) in order to claim any assets long-term. And yes, this is as it should be. Significant developer action was deliberately taken to make this happen when the Rubicon expansion turned hisec COs into claimable assets. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5133
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Posted - 2014.12.22 21:52:47 -
[24] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:It's not a bug. it happened to me.
The tax was 7% with my skills, but when I came to collect it from the poco I couldn't as my standings were not sufficient.
It seems to happen a lot in HS, whether it should is a different matter.
Maybe there needs to be a warning before launch stating that you can't retrieve your goods from the customs office....
I just used the command center then removed it.
Yeah...more handholding, that's what we need.
*insert sarcasm emoji here*
Let's see:
Opens google
Search for: EVE Online Custom Office
2nd link - Wow, the official Dev Blog about high-sec PoCo's and how they work...including the line:
CCP SoniClover in the Dev Blog wrote:POCOs in hi sec will give the owner the exact same controls as POCOs in low sec GÇô the owner can set the tax rate as he wants and can have different tax rates based on standings. This includes denying access.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3088
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Posted - 2014.12.22 21:56:08 -
[25] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:It's not a bug. it happened to me.
The tax was 7% with my skills, but when I came to collect it from the poco I couldn't as my standings were not sufficient.
It seems to happen a lot in HS, whether it should is a different matter.. There are two different mechanics at work here, if the customs office you tried to use is owned by a player corporation. In other words, is a Player Owned Customs Office (hence the name) If said POCO is situated in high sec, you pay a 10% NPC export and 5 % NPC import tax. These tax rates can be reduced by the skill Customs Code Expertise by 10% per level of the skill. In your case I gather your skill level was 3, which accounts for the 7% tax you had to pay. However, and that is the second thing you have to take into consideration, the player corporation owning the POCO probably had set the access levels to 'access denied' for everyone with neutral or lower standing. So if you were not on good standing with them, you were (are) effectively barred from using their POCO.
My advice would be to contact the owning corporation and negotiate access. POCO access can be configured to be allowed on a personal to corporation standing, so you can negotiate personal access even if you are in an NPC corporation.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1282
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Posted - 2014.12.22 23:15:34 -
[26] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote: However, and that is the second thing you have to take into consideration, the player corporation owning the POCO probably had set the access levels to 'access denied' for everyone with neutral or lower standing. So if you were not on good standing with them, you were (are) effectively barred from using their POCO.
My advice would be to contact the owning corporation and negotiate access. POCO access can be configured to be allowed on a personal to corporation standing, so you can negotiate personal access even if you are in an NPC corporation.
Wow .. never knew about that functionality or ever came across it. (Probably because my PI are in low sec with tax rates between 2% and 5 % because the corps owning the POCO actually want business).
It does seem wrong if you are "access denied" you can upload and pay tax but not access the uploaded goods. i can see why he is a bit dissed.
SO ... in terms of the OP original question, how can he tell that he is "access denied" when first searching planets before wasting time and ISK building on the planet ? |
Sugar Smacks
State War Academy Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2014.12.22 23:30:20 -
[27] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote: However, and that is the second thing you have to take into consideration, the player corporation owning the POCO probably had set the access levels to 'access denied' for everyone with neutral or lower standing. So if you were not on good standing with them, you were (are) effectively barred from using their POCO.
My advice would be to contact the owning corporation and negotiate access. POCO access can be configured to be allowed on a personal to corporation standing, so you can negotiate personal access even if you are in an NPC corporation.
Wow .. never knew about that functionality or ever came across it. (Probably because my PI are in low sec with tax rates between 2% and 5 % because the corps owning the POCO actually want business). It does seem wrong if you are "access denied" you can upload and pay tax but not access the uploaded goods. i can see why he is a bit dissed. SO ... in terms of the OP original question, how can he tell that he is "access denied" when first searching planets before wasting time and ISK building on the planet ?
Thank you for getting it. |
Orlacc
697
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Posted - 2014.12.23 04:06:35 -
[28] - Quote
For the hell of it I flew around to some Customs Offices and though all had the tax rate in Show Info, nothing about standings. FFS if you don't meet standings requirement, it should say so or at the very least not tax you.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
801
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Posted - 2014.12.23 04:24:19 -
[29] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:For the hell of it I flew around to some Customs Offices and though all had the tax rate in Show Info, nothing about standings. FFS if you don't meet standings requirement, it should say so or at the very least not tax you. Agreed. OP, I suggest you file a ticket. It's probably an oversight in the implementation of the new high sec POCOs.
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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1560
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Posted - 2014.12.23 10:00:11 -
[30] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Orlacc wrote:For the hell of it I flew around to some Customs Offices and though all had the tax rate in Show Info, nothing about standings. FFS if you don't meet standings requirement, it should say so or at the very least not tax you. Agreed. OP, I suggest you file a ticket. It's probably an oversight in the implementation of the new high sec POCOs.
Yep, file a petition under "Planetary Interactions & Custom Offices".
Is really weird that you do have access to put your PI *in* the office but not get it *out*. If access is restricted it should work both ways. |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4478
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Posted - 2014.12.23 12:00:44 -
[31] - Quote
My spew on PI:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5190572#post5190572
Most new PI users confuse using a Customs Offices (transfers via a Launchpad) and orbital launches (transfer off-planet via the Command Center). Customs offices can be used to import and export large amounts, where orbital launches can only export small amounts. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5153
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Posted - 2014.12.23 12:16:29 -
[32] - Quote
Yeah.
Thinking about it.
It is indeed very weird that you can see the tax rate but not if you are locked out of using it.
And then that you can actually export to the custom office in the first place if you are locked out.
So indeed, I would bring this up to CCP so they know about it and might look into it.
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