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Dissy Suffry
Turalyon One
0
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Posted - 2014.12.22 09:24:19 -
[1] - Quote
Together with some friends we have set up a large POS in a C4 and then lived there for a while, yesterday we prepared an RR BC fleet to try running our very first sites. So in we went and started doing the site in our home, I was mashing the dscan just to be sure (and was weirded out by how 0 distance shows up under the -- range) when suddenly somebody yells "GET OUT" on comms, neutral warps on grid, bubble comes up and 20 T3 cruisers warp in and completely obliterate us.
Could this have been avoided at all? Is planting a scout at every single wormhole in the system the only way? |
Freddie Merrcury
Jaded. The Natural Order
125
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Posted - 2014.12.22 09:45:18 -
[2] - Quote
aggressive scouting and closing extraneous holes is your best solution.
Alternatively, get gud
I been kicked out of better homes than this.
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Dissy Suffry
Turalyon One
0
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Posted - 2014.12.22 09:47:32 -
[3] - Quote
Freddie Merrcury wrote:aggressive scouting and closing extraneous holes is your best solution.
Alternatively, get gud
Could you elaborate on the closing the holes part?
Is there a reliable way to do it that doesn't risk trapping people on the wrong side? |
Freddie Merrcury
Jaded. The Natural Order
125
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Posted - 2014.12.22 09:50:17 -
[4] - Quote
http://bit.ly/1t05ZH6
I been kicked out of better homes than this.
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Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
33
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Posted - 2014.12.22 09:56:28 -
[5] - Quote
The only way to 100% avoid or prevent ganking is staying docked ina station.
Here is an old but still true ruleset for w-space:
http://k162space.com/2010/01/ |
Dissy Suffry
Turalyon One
0
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Posted - 2014.12.22 10:01:37 -
[6] - Quote
Sequester Risalo wrote:The only way to 100% avoid or prevent ganking is staying docked ina station. Here is an old but still true ruleset for w-space: http://k162space.com/2010/01/
So what you are saying is "Getting ganked is inevitable, you can just hope you can run as many sites as possible before that happens so you can sustain the losses"
Did I get this right?
I could roll with this.
Freddie Mercury wrote:http://bit.ly/1t05ZH6 Since you went through all the great pain of typing that search into google and then plugging it into an url shortener you could have just expended the energy to link an article on the subject.
This way you only painted yourself as a jerk to the eyes of everyone and generally wasted everyone's time. |
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
43
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Posted - 2014.12.22 10:11:04 -
[7] - Quote
dont forget
1. launch combat probes and keep them in air for new ship signatures 2. dscan as always evry 2 seconds |
Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
33
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Posted - 2014.12.22 10:36:14 -
[8] - Quote
Getting ganked is indeed inevitable. They will come cloaked and find you. When they are bigger in numbers, they will uncloak and attack you. Some even attack with less or even numbers. Even "getting gud" doesn't help much against a fleet several times your size.
If you are in an anomaly (combat or ore) you are quite easy to find. They can just warp cloaked and look for you. Actually you will have to get lucky and hit dscan the very second they switch from jump cloak to regular cloak and the wh-entrance has to be in reach of your scanners.
If you are in a signature (data, relic, gas), they will need to put out probes to find you. Then you will have a better chance of being warned. However, the experts won't need long to scan you down.
Therefore always have a scanning alt logged at your pos, so you will be able to find a way back in in case you are podded. |
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
43
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Posted - 2014.12.22 11:12:04 -
[9] - Quote
Sequester Risalo wrote:Getting ganked is indeed inevitable. They will come cloaked and find you. When they are bigger in numbers, they will uncloak and attack you. Some even attack with less or even numbers. Even "getting gud" doesn't help much against a fleet several times your size.
If you are in an anomaly (combat or ore) you are quite easy to find. They can just warp cloaked and look for you. Actually you will have to get lucky and hit dscan the very second they switch from jump cloak to regular cloak and the wh-entrance has to be in reach of your scanners.
If you are in a signature (data, relic, gas), they will need to put out probes to find you. Then you will have a better chance of being warned. However, the experts won't need long to scan you down.
Therefore always have a scanning alt logged at your pos, so you will be able to find a way back in in case you are podded.
i used 3 chars for pos . if one is rolled out , sometimes second one was rolled out when gankers decided to stay for two days in my hole.
best is to have two - three characters in same wormhole, if possible ceptor with probes so they can easily bypass bubbles. |
Jack Miton
Isogen 5
4018
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Posted - 2014.12.22 11:18:17 -
[10] - Quote
Alright, I've had a few beers, it's nearly christmas, so here's some hard truth for you people posting in this thread: You don't get ganked because it's inevitable, you get ganked because you are worse at the game than the people ganking you.
It is in now way inevitable to get ganked in wspace and the people who tell you it is are either bad at the game themselves or want you to believe it is 'just part of life' in wspace so that they can continue ganking people like you.
Few notes on the specific situation in OP: - you said a bubbler warped on grid. this means youre either not paying enough attention to dscan, new sigs, dont have scouts or more than likely all of the above. - did you have a contingency plan in case this happened? i doubt it. you were in BCs, did you have micro jump drives fit, or a mobile depot deployed to fit them, or stabs, when you had to bail? - learn how to roll holes. it isnt hard, the mass information is widely available, do the maths.
Realistically, most people have been bad at the game at some point which sometimes leads to them getting ganked. hell, ive sat an afk plex fit tengu on a jita gate for a few hours before, that ended predictably too. However, it's definitely possible to get better at the game and learn how to avoid ganks. Think about what you need to do to not get ganked. Take precautions, be aware of your connections and sigs, have a contingency plan.
Ultimately, the best way to learn how to defend yourself from ganks is to learn go to gank other people doing the things you do. This will teach you what to watch for, what timeframes you have to get out is ect. Most of all, it will get you out actually PVPing which is far better than any sort of PVE you might be into.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/
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Jez Amatin
Enso Corp
46
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Posted - 2014.12.22 11:41:16 -
[11] - Quote
Dissy Suffry wrote: Could this have been avoided at all? Is planting a scout at every single wormhole in the system the only way?
depends on scenario really, if you are in home and have a sizeable fleet collapse all holes, and don't warp to respawned static sig(s). then you can bear it up until you spot a new sig (this will likely be a k162 wh with someone who just jumped in). make sure you get corpies to take one aspect of the job on (dscan, anoms, wh stalking...) - its not easy doing this solo.
you can also plant scouts / alts on whs, and that works well if you are farming static.
i'd say biggest issue is that you probably didn't scout the chain well enough before starting. At a guess, one of their scouts spotted you preparing and waited for the moment to pounce... when scouting don't just check the static and think its all fine, go through each connection and scout systems in full (find out if there are any active poses, what corp if any, what KB activity, what TZ etc...).
u should also have a backup plan if you get jumped:
- always be aligned if possible - have mobile depots to refit - have a spare alt at pos who can reship into something useful (ecm, damps, neuts)
getting ganked is just the way it goes, and sometimes credit is due to the hunter. o7
ps. putting bubbles on holes is not very effective since t3 nullified / ceptors will just yolo through anyway. also makes you look like one of them terribad carrier ratting renters, which is like a "GANK ME" neon sign post that flashes brighter than the star of caroline.
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Freddie Merrcury
Jaded. The Natural Order
126
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Posted - 2014.12.22 12:57:38 -
[12] - Quote
Dissy Suffry wrote: Since you went through all the great pain of typing that search into google and then plugging it into an url shortener you could have just expended the energy to link an article on the subject.
This way you only painted yourself as a jerk to the eyes of everyone and generally wasted everyone's time.
I go where I please and please where I go.
I been kicked out of better homes than this.
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Juan Diolosa
Codename-47 Verge of Collapse
34
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Posted - 2014.12.22 13:25:07 -
[13] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote: if you are in home and have a sizeable fleet collapse all holes
Sizable fleet is not required. Just be aware of active holes, and go kill the residents. Afterwards, intelligently roll the hole as normal.
If you can't kill the people in your connections, don't feed them kills by running sites. Never run home sites with an open connection. Never run home sites with an open connection. Never run home sites with an open connection. Never run home sites with an open connection. Never run home sites with an open connection. Never run home sites with an open connection.
Jez Amatin wrote: don't warp to respawned static sig(s).
Outdated information. Ignore the above.
Jez Amatin wrote: make sure you get corpies to take one aspect of the job on (dscan, anoms, wh stalking...) - its not easy doing this solo.
EVERYONE D-Scans. EVERYONE watches for new sigs. Place an alt on your UNOPENED static(s). You should have caught the probes anyway, but just in case you were not paying attention. You could have rolled a scout out of his exit. |
Dissy Suffry
Turalyon One
1
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Posted - 2014.12.22 14:16:44 -
[14] - Quote
Yes, we had some very bad lapses in our attention, for one people kept forgetting to dscan even though I reminded them. We were running a site in our own home system, a scout could have seen us preparing at the POS for all I know.
We also ran an anomaly even though I assumed we were in a safer signature, I would not run anomalies personally due to that but I didn't know since somebody else did the boomarking.
I did take a refitting depot but all I had in my cargo were only warp core stabilizers, kind of useless in this case but I will carry an mwd and an afterburner next time, thanks for the tip.
Next time I shall be a little more prepared and even though I will probably do many more mystakes I won't certainly repeat the most egregious ones (we actually lost the post a short time later due to a completely unrelated incident involving corp theft, can't be safe even at home).
Thanks everyone so far, I'd love to hear more about the subject by expert players and please tell about your past failures, I think that reading other stories of failure can be a great learning experience |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
845
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Posted - 2014.12.22 14:18:59 -
[15] - Quote
Freddie Merrcury wrote:get gud
prolly the best advice in this thread
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Jez Amatin
Enso Corp
46
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Posted - 2014.12.22 14:24:48 -
[16] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote: don't warp to respawned static sig(s).
Outdated information. Ignore the above.
correct me if im wrong, if u warp to a nu sig u trigger spawn timer... hence the don't warp there. i know it doesn't spawn immediately, but it still triggers timer for random spawning after set time (this can be short in lower class wh).
"Although K162 signatures will not appear as soon as a player warps to them (as they do currently), they will have a random chance to appear every several minutes once the wormhole connection has less than 15 hours of natural lifetime remaining."
source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/?_ga=1.92057306.1108661856.1389644451
i'd say ignore this at your own peril but vov |
Richouse Gallentry
Blue-Fire
14
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Posted - 2014.12.22 14:52:21 -
[17] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote:correct me if im wrong, if u warp to a nu sig u trigger spawn timer... hence the don't warp there. i know it doesn't spawn immediately, but it still triggers timer for random spawning after set time (this can be short in lower class wh). "Although K162 signatures will not appear as soon as a player warps to them (as they do currently), they will have a random chance to appear every several minutes once the wormhole connection has less than 15 hours of natural lifetime remaining." source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/?_ga=1.92057306.1108661856.1389644451 i'd say ignore this at your own peril but vov
1) When wormhole is initially warped to, the timer starts... most WH have a lifetime of 24hrs 2) For the next 9 hours the ticking continues before there is a chance of it appearing on the other side. 3) So... for WH types that have an initial 18 hour timer, you have 3 hours of ticking before there is anything to worry about.
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Jez Amatin
Enso Corp
46
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Posted - 2014.12.22 15:23:43 -
[18] - Quote
1) C4 have a fairly balanced mixture of 16 / 24hr holes (not most) 2) true if you have a C5 / C6 static, all the others are 16hrs 3) ahem, i think u mean 16hrs. so if u warp there u have one hr
damn u for making me check, but merry xmas anyway <3 |
Bleedingthrough
Project AIice
151
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Posted - 2014.12.22 15:56:28 -
[19] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Alright, I've had a few beers, it's nearly christmas, so here's some hard truth for you people posting in this thread: You don't get ganked because it's inevitable, you get ganked because you are worse at the game than the people ganking you.
...
Ultimately, the best way to learn how to defend yourself from ganks is to learn go to gank other people doing the things you do. This will teach you what to watch for, what timeframes you have to get out is ect. Most of all, it will get you out actually PVPing which is far better than any sort of PVE you might be into.
100% this. (Edit: also the drinking part. lol)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5305080#post5305080
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Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
845
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Posted - 2014.12.22 16:23:45 -
[20] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Alright, I've had a few beers, it's nearly christmas, so here's some hard truth for you people posting in this thread: You don't get ganked because it's inevitable, you get ganked because you are worse at the game than the people ganking you.
I like it when you're loose
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Quanah Comanche
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2014.12.22 16:54:30 -
[21] - Quote
Indeed true that the best way to avoid ganking is learning how to gank. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2364
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Posted - 2014.12.22 18:08:54 -
[22] - Quote
Just curious, but how many open Wormholes did you have in the system at the time?
And yes, safest way to close a WH (at least in terms of not getting stuck) is to finish off with a HIC |
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
24458
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:10:27 -
[23] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Alright, I've had a few beers, it's nearly christmas, so here's some hard truth for you people posting in this thread: You don't get ganked because it's inevitable, you get ganked because you are worse at the game than the people ganking you. I like it when you're loose Step away from the precious.
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
My Wormhole Pron | The Endgame | Wormhole Diary
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Alundil
Isogen 5
802
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:16:13 -
[24] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Alright, I've had a few beers, it's nearly christmas, so here's some hard truth for you people posting in this thread: You don't get ganked because it's inevitable, you get ganked because you are worse at the game than the people ganking you. I like it when you're loose Step away from the precious. ?Donde esta mi preciosa?
I'm right behind you
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Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
845
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:24:20 -
[25] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Alright, I've had a few beers, it's nearly christmas, so here's some hard truth for you people posting in this thread: You don't get ganked because it's inevitable, you get ganked because you are worse at the game than the people ganking you. I like it when you're loose Step away from the precious.
Embrace competition
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
24467
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:31:12 -
[26] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Alright, I've had a few beers, it's nearly christmas, so here's some hard truth for you people posting in this thread: You don't get ganked because it's inevitable, you get ganked because you are worse at the game than the people ganking you. I like it when you're loose Step away from the precious. Embrace competition He's a married man now.
Have some motherfucking respect.
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
My Wormhole Pron | The Endgame | Wormhole Diary
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Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
846
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:37:36 -
[27] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Alright, I've had a few beers, it's nearly christmas, so here's some hard truth for you people posting in this thread: You don't get ganked because it's inevitable, you get ganked because you are worse at the game than the people ganking you. I like it when you're loose Step away from the precious. Embrace competition He's a married man now. Have some motherfucking respect.
Just because there's a goalie doesn't mean you can't play ball
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
24472
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Posted - 2014.12.22 19:47:31 -
[28] - Quote
Welp certainly got a point there, so I guess you win this one.
I'll be in my bunk the nets ready to deflect your balls.
Though I think they're called ovaries in lowsec.
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
My Wormhole Pron | The Endgame | Wormhole Diary
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Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
847
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:00:48 -
[29] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Though I think they're called ovaries in lowsec.
pls get it right, I'm an irrelevant null-sec sheeperson. All I know how to do is press F1 instead of F2 which is where all the ~*pr0*~ WHers keep their guns.
Also I got mah waifu Candi a nice Christmas present. She's going to need to invest in some pants
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Generaloberst Kluntz
Isogen 5
39
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Posted - 2014.12.23 01:43:46 -
[30] - Quote
#derailedforgood |
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