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Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
154
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Posted - 2014.12.23 20:12:50 -
[1] - Quote
Well, day after tomorrow, anyway.
The historic announcement, when the Empress announced that the end of the Age of slavery was approaching.
Super !
I am sure the Empress will make more amazing announcements soon !
Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
1824
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Posted - 2014.12.24 07:17:34 -
[2] - Quote
I won't be holding my breath.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
243
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Posted - 2014.12.24 07:18:34 -
[3] - Quote
What the Empress giveth, the Empress taketh away. I am expecting a 'taketh away' announcement this time around.
- Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
1824
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Posted - 2014.12.24 07:26:33 -
[4] - Quote
Honestly she didn't really give anything last time around. She dumped millions of brainwashed souls (with no ties to the Matari or the Republic) that she no longer had any use for. It was a win/win for her; she scored PR points with the rest of the cluster by appearing progressive while dumping millions of unwanted people onto an already overburdened Republic.
It was a shrewd political and PR move but ultimately merely a coldly calculated bit of political theatre.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
243
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Posted - 2014.12.24 07:40:47 -
[5] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Honestly she didn't really give anything last time around. She dumped millions of brainwashed souls (with no ties to the Matari or the Republic) that she no longer had any use for. It was a win/win for her; she scored PR points with the rest of the cluster by appearing progressive while dumping millions of unwanted people onto an already overburdened Republic.
It was a shrewd political and PR move but ultimately merely a coldly calculated bit of political theatre.
Can't expect anything less from the head honcho of the Amarr Empire, really.
We still have those 'poor souls' flopping around outside the Egivand Enclave, last I hear. Same batch. Same rhetoric. Difference is they actually build something semi-permanent this time around. Some kind of shrine or a temple. Quite clear they have no intention of leaving. I'm expecting a call from the Clan Elder himself to help clear them out one of these days, probably with the threat of orbital bombardment via a Thrasher or something considering that the Enclave doesn't need an extra pair of gun-totting hands.
Let's be honest. With them and the noise they are making and all that Vitoc addiction, they are bound to attract unwanted attention. 'Angels' wannabes are already bad enough, and we don't need the local government to get involved too.
- Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1030
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Posted - 2014.12.24 07:54:57 -
[6] - Quote
So those released by Her Imperial Majesty are "brainwashed and unwanted souls dropped onto an already overburdened Republic"...
And yet you all still want to invade the Empire to "rescue" and bring more of these "brainwashed and unwanted souls" into the Republic?
As usual, the claims of caring for the lives of slaves are purely so that you can feel morally good about yourselves, as you don't seem to actually want the people or care about them and their well-being.
Pick one. Either you want to help the slaves or you don't want to. Don't claim to want to help us and then abandon us as soon as the chains are off because you can't stand the thought of being associated with us.
Her Imperial Majesty gave you what you said you wanted. If that's not what you actually wanted, then stop asking for it. |
Karynn Denton
Clan Katanga Caravan
348
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Posted - 2014.12.24 08:38:19 -
[7] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Honestly she didn't really give anything last time around. She dumped millions of brainwashed souls (with no ties to the Matari or the Republic) that she no longer had any use for. It was a win/win for her; she scored PR points with the rest of the cluster by appearing progressive while dumping millions of unwanted people onto an already overburdened Republic.
And yet, your own words from another thread...
Anabella Rella wrote: They were Minmatar citizens before your ancestors so brutally invaded our space and enslaved them.
Culturally they're more akin to you slavers now but, let's not forget where they hailed from originally. Biologically they're Matari and therefore, our people.
Republicans
Karynn Denton
Caravan Master
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
244
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Posted - 2014.12.24 09:09:33 -
[8] - Quote
One thing is clear: The Republic does not have the economic muscle nor infrastructure to take in even more slaves. More has to be done on that front before any further emancipations can be attempted.
- Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
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Anja Suorsa
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
311
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Posted - 2014.12.24 09:36:52 -
[9] - Quote
So, what is it exactly the Matari want from Amarr if it's not the return of their people? |
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
438
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Posted - 2014.12.24 10:50:22 -
[10] - Quote
Most Matari I've spoken to about the topic have suggested they would content with the Matari in the Empire continuing to work and live within it. They just want them to be free while doing so. |
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Spyra Gryra
Tash-Murkon Scrap and Salvage
0
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Posted - 2014.12.24 11:48:15 -
[11] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:Most Matari I've spoken to about the topic have suggested they would content with the Matari in the Empire continuing to work and live within it. They just want them to be free while doing so.
The opinions of a few Matari is not representative of their entire culture.
Why don't you conduct a Republic wide survey and get back to us.
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Karynn Denton
Clan Katanga Caravan
349
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Posted - 2014.12.24 12:09:02 -
[12] - Quote
Spyra Gryra wrote:The opinions of a few Matari is not representative of their entire culture.
Why don't you conduct a Republic wide survey and get back to us.
The Republic does not represent the Matari either. In fact, it only represents a minority. Thankfully.
Karynn Denton
Caravan Master
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Spyra Gryra
Tash-Murkon Scrap and Salvage
0
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Posted - 2014.12.24 12:15:57 -
[13] - Quote
Karynn Denton wrote:Spyra Gryra wrote:The opinions of a few Matari is not representative of their entire culture.
Why don't you conduct a Republic wide survey and get back to us.
The Republic does not represent the Matari either. In fact, it only represents a minority. Thankfully.
Sure, but I thought we were talking about the Republicans attitude to the emancipation decree? |
Karynn Denton
Clan Katanga Caravan
349
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Posted - 2014.12.24 12:40:16 -
[14] - Quote
Spyra Gryra wrote:Karynn Denton wrote:Spyra Gryra wrote:The opinions of a few Matari is not representative of their entire culture.
Why don't you conduct a Republic wide survey and get back to us.
The Republic does not represent the Matari either. In fact, it only represents a minority. Thankfully. Sure, but I thought we were talking about the Republicans attitude to the emancipation decree?
Yourself and Ms Ikiryo were referring to Matari opinions in your posts.
And besides, dealing with emancipated refugees is much more that a Republican issue. There are still Starkmanir clogging up outposts and stations in the Wildlands, six years after we propped up the Elder Fleet's raids. That was not a burden my people asked for, yet we paid the highest blood price when our troops were stranded on Mekhios, may they rest with their Ancestors. I have yet to see any benefit of saving that wretched tribe.
If the Republic's capacity to accomodate released slaves becomes stretched, will they expect the Caravans to take them as well?
Karynn Denton
Caravan Master
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
106
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Posted - 2014.12.24 13:06:09 -
[15] - Quote
"Her Imperial Majesty gave you what you said you wanted. If that's not what you actually wanted, then stop asking for it."
Not really, no. I don't particularly care whether they want to stay in the Empire or go live elsewhere, it's up to the freed, but no one ever asked for the indoctrinated to be sent as zealous missionaries to do as much damage as they could. It was a shrewd move on her part, no doubt about that but there's no way even you can deny it was a blatant act of hostility.
Especially given that it's quite clear it will never be extended to those who both want and need freedom from chains.
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Derek Quaid
Discreet Bounties
306
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Posted - 2014.12.24 13:36:44 -
[16] - Quote
"We come for our people! ...except the ones you're actually willing to let go."
CEO, Discreet Bounties
In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1513
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Posted - 2014.12.24 13:39:26 -
[17] - Quote
Anja Suorsa wrote:So, what is it exactly the Matari want from Amarr if it's not the return of their people? My teacher was telling me, that the true desire of any slave is not to stop being a slave, but rather to become master and have their own slaves. |
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
106
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Posted - 2014.12.24 13:41:51 -
[18] - Quote
Cute, but not quite. The end of slavery is the goal and my people are certainly the priority for me in this regard. However, pretending that the blatant act of hostility was anything but is rather dishonest or at the very least the bleating of a dullard. Nuance, ladies and gentlemen. It's a thing. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1513
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Posted - 2014.12.24 13:47:06 -
[19] - Quote
On other hand, I would like to point out, that slavery, while it remains withing border of the Empire, is business of Amarr and Amarr only.
Those minmatar, who fight against slavery not in their territory or in disputed territories, but want to fight slavery inside Amarr Empire without being Amarr citizens...
ARE SIMPLE IDIOTS.
Those people are not to be talked with, but rather exterminated on contact. |
Ariel Marquette
University of Caille Gallente Federation
50
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Posted - 2014.12.24 14:41:09 -
[20] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Nuance, ladies and gentlemen. It's a thing. It seems to be a thing by which hypocrites ignore the plain reality in order to justify their own violent agenda.
Missing the forest for the trees, ladies and gentlemen. It's a thing. |
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Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
282
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Posted - 2014.12.24 14:48:53 -
[21] - Quote
Slavery is eternal, and any so-called Empress who thinks otherwise has vacated her throne, if she ever legitimately held it in the first place. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
4375
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Posted - 2014.12.24 14:50:15 -
[22] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Cute, but not quite. The end of slavery is the goal and my people are certainly the priority for me in this regard. However, pretending that the blatant act of hostility was anything but is rather dishonest or at the very least the bleating of a dullard. Nuance, ladies and gentlemen. It's a thing.
You could have made it clear that releasing hundreds of millions of slaves was a good thing, instead of making it plain that even giving you a large part of what you wanted was going to be painted as a hostile act.
I mean, I get why you're mad. Not only did she achieve more than the Minmatar freedom movement has achieved in decades with a single stroke of her pen, but she also demonstrated that the slaves you want freed (angry culturally Minmatar, slaves ready to integrate into the Republic) are not the majority - if they even exist anymore. If Jamyl's goal was to demonstrate that the Republic was in no way prepared for mass releases of slaves and that they didn't know what to do with them or even really want them then she succeeded.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
107
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Posted - 2014.12.24 15:12:08 -
[23] - Quote
I know you like to proclaim what other people want and fight for so you can tear it down, but the strawmen you're knocking down need to be better camouflaged, Tuulinen. The slaves I want freed are all of them. If there are even a single one of them that fits within the Tribes, I don't know. I almost did, but it's not where I belong and I'm fairly sure most certainly do not. There's a difference between ending slavery and tripling the Republic's population overnight.
Most slaves in the Empire, my people or theirs, do not belong anywhere else. No one contests that. It's where I was born, it's where my closest kin where born and where most of them live. People just want to live their life, and most of them prefer to live where they always have.
The thing is, out of all those countless billions, there are those who do not. There are those who belong elsewhere. There are those who yearn for different lives, in other places be they within the Empire or otherwise. To do this, they need to be free. If there is even one of my people who desires a life other than slavery, then every second they remain enslaved is a crime and a travesty that is unforgivable.
Of course, you are right in one thing. The release of the slaves was a good thing. Every slave becoming a free man or woman is a good thing. The reason I do not show gratitude is the intent and motivation behind that act, which was a calculated and shrewd act with the intent to do as much harm as possible to her enemies while garnering a staggering amount of PR points. It's beautifully done and I applaud the shrewdness, but I do not pretend to be grateful knowing why she did it. She achieved more harm to her enemies and huge gains for herself by releasing slaves that are free only in name, with their minds remaining enslaved by chains stronger than any physical ones.
I will have to admit it is vexing to see you pretend to be stupid enough not to see this, just so you can justify fighting for her. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1032
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Posted - 2014.12.24 15:25:07 -
[24] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Anja Suorsa wrote:So, what is it exactly the Matari want from Amarr if it's not the return of their people? My teacher was telling me, that the true desire of any slave is not to stop being a slave, but rather to become master and have their own slaves.
Both of those are wrong. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1032
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Posted - 2014.12.24 15:58:24 -
[25] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Not really, no. I don't particularly care whether they want to stay in the Empire or go live elsewhere, it's up to the freed, but no one ever asked for the indoctrinated to be sent as zealous missionaries to do as much damage as they could. It was a shrewd move on her part, no doubt about that but there's no way even you can deny it was a blatant act of hostility.
If it was hostile it was no more hostile than the sending of missionaries. And missionaries at least are deliberately sent. Those former slaves that chose to move to the Republic, did so because they wanted to, on their own free will for whatever myriad reasons they may have had. The Emancipation had no mandate-to-move. In fact, if anyone is to be blamed then it would people like Interbus for providing free transport to the Republic, and Republic officials for offering free citizenship and housing arrangements, both thus encouraging a lot more to move who otherwise wouldn't have.
But really, I don't care what it was. What I care about is the response from Republicans who demand freedom for slaves and then treat those freed slaves like dirt because they don't follow the culture the Republicans were hoping for. If Republicans want Amarr's slaves to be free, then they'll have to deal with the fact that most of them will be culturally Amarr, not Minmatar. If they don't like that, then they can stop asking for it. |
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
108
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Posted - 2014.12.24 16:13:12 -
[26] - Quote
Agreed. If they want to bring the huddled masses into the Republic, they have to deal with it as they ask. It is rather inconvenient for many of the blowhards spouting rhetoric to appeal to a populace, a trait that should not have been imported from the Federation I might add, when they get what they want and it turns out to be difficult to handle.
But let's not pretend these crazed zealots weren't released with the very specific goal in mind that was achieved. You know better than that, little kin.
The thing is, I am not a Republican. I am of my people. I don't care where they go or what they choose to do, once freed. It'd be up to them. Stay, leave, come back or whatever else. What is important is that they have the choice. If they wish to try out the Republic, then they should have that choice. If they wish to go turn their brains into mush in the Federation, then they should have that choice. If they wish to be free people of the Empire, then they should have that choice.
They do not have the choice.
This will not change if the Empire has their way. |
Mitara Newelle
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
194
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Posted - 2014.12.24 17:10:28 -
[27] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:The end of slavery is the goal and my people are certainly the priority for me in this regard.
The end of slavery is also what Amarr seek, once it has served its purpose and is no longer needed. |
Deitra Vess
Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies.
210
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Posted - 2014.12.24 17:19:39 -
[28] - Quote
How exactly can you tell when its purpose is served? There's always more people to indoctrinate right? I just don't see how it could come to an end. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
1829
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Posted - 2014.12.24 17:24:03 -
[29] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:A bunch of imperial lackey claptrap
Whatever Kernher. If your zombie empress had really wanted to do a good deed why the hell didn't she enter into discussions with the Republic to facilitate a orderly release and repatriation of those individuals? Instead she unilaterally "freed" (dumped) hundreds of millions of people with no thought given as to where they would go or how they would survive. If she truly cared she would have made them full imperial citizens and provided them a means to fully integrate into Amarrian society. The fact that she basically tossed them out onto the streets and suggested they board the next starship to Minmatar space tells me that Sarum was putting on a show and nothing more.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5231
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Posted - 2014.12.24 17:24:17 -
[30] - Quote
Mitara Newelle wrote:The end of slavery is also what Amarr seek, once it has served its purpose and is no longer needed. Your timescale is unsuitable for the rest of us. Modify it, or cease complaining about Minmatar freedom fighters.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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