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Ryomaru Reaper
IKE Corporation
12
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Posted - 2014.12.29 22:18:08 -
[1] - Quote
At this point I am wondering to myself, I've waited for this I went out and trained to get myself a manticore, and the skills to juse torpedoes.
And get myself ready to go pvp in wormholes, so I went into one. I met this lovely Astero, just sitting there, doing nothing, and went for it, first time ever.
Heart pumping, blood rushing, the excitement was here, I almost killed him, but I had to manage my cap, so I couldn't warp scramble him permanently unfortunately. And he went through the hole to safety, and that's when it hit me:
Why is it so, that my torpedoes do a measly 150 damage, while I see people one-shotting frigates with these things...
I am running arbalest torpedo launchers meta4, with caldari navy scourge torps.
Can any help me a little? |
Quanah Comanche
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
46
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Posted - 2014.12.29 22:19:54 -
[2] - Quote
To put it simply, Torps don't hurt frigates. Torpedos are for BS. Use rockets to gank explorers.
Also a scrambler won't stop him going through the hole. Scan down a site and wait.
And don't feel bad, I tried the same thing way back on my Hound. |
Ryomaru Reaper
IKE Corporation
12
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Posted - 2014.12.29 22:21:46 -
[3] - Quote
How is that when all I see is people blowing up frigs with similair fits, and I can't ? |
Paranoid Loyd
3309
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Posted - 2014.12.29 22:23:48 -
[4] - Quote
They probably had rockets fit, less DPS, much better applied damage. If the target is running his MWD, can make a huge difference in applied damage.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Quanah Comanche
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
46
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Posted - 2014.12.29 22:28:03 -
[5] - Quote
Just remembered this for Manticore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIUy3-_efts&feature=c4-overview&list=UU6L76TQIxYnWrkQrF7tErSg |
Ryomaru Reaper
IKE Corporation
12
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Posted - 2014.12.29 22:32:54 -
[6] - Quote
I really don't understand I figured torps being such needy in requirements it would be very high in damage.
So can you explain, in detail, why this didn't work for me, and what works better. Cause I see people like wingspantt blowing people up with torpedoes, and I am like, how the hell? |
Quanah Comanche
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
46
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Posted - 2014.12.29 22:47:57 -
[7] - Quote
wingspantt mostly attacks indys not frigs as far as I know |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6978
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Posted - 2014.12.29 23:08:01 -
[8] - Quote
Ryomaru Reaper wrote:I really don't understand I figured torps being such needy in requirements it would be very high in damage. They are very high damage. It just boils down to "damage application."
Ryomaru Reaper wrote:So can you explain, in detail, why this didn't work for me, and what works better. Cause I see people like wingspantt blowing people up with torpedoes, and I am like, how the hell? Okay so...
There is "raw damage" and "applied damage."
"Raw damage" is the maximum potential damage your ship can pump out (measured both in "damage per second" and "volley damage")
"Applied damage" is the amount of damage you actually do when all the variables of the weapon itself and the target are taken into account. Such variables include, but are not limited to: - size of the target ship versus size of the weapon (signature radius versus signature resolution/explosion radius) - speed of the target ship versus tracking/explosion velocity of the weapon - damage resistances of the target ship versus damage type of the weapon/ammo
In the case of your torpedo-slinging Stealth Bomber versus the Astero...
- Torpedoes have an explosion radius of ~450m. An Astero has a sig radius of 35m. So Torps will have their damage reduced by a VERY large margin. - You say the Astero was standing still. This means that it was well within the Torps explosion velocity of of 71 m/sec and no damage was being mitigated this way. - One can never be 100% certain how a target ship is fitted. So you cannot know how high its damage resistances were. But, if it was using a fit similar to mine, it would probably have ~70% reistances across the board (meaning that only 30% of the damage after the first two factors are considered would actually apply).
Now there are ways to stack the odds more in your favor.
- Target painters can drastically increase the "size" of the target... allowing for greater damage application. - Certain rigs can effectively "increase" the Torpedoes' explosion velocity... allowing for greater damage application. - Or you can fit certain weapons (like rockets) to be effective against certain targets... at the cost of being effective against others.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Ryomaru Reaper
IKE Corporation
12
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Posted - 2014.12.29 23:08:04 -
[9] - Quote
Even with low skills rockets do more damage, right?
Then thanks alot hehe <3 |
Saladiin
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
2
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Posted - 2014.12.29 23:08:30 -
[10] - Quote
I use torps almost exclusively, but when I hit explorer frigs, they are typically at a standstill and have at least one TP on them. If you want to hit combat capable ships like an astero, your Torps will likely do pitiful damage and you'd be better off using rockets. If you're running a manticore solo with Torps, your range of targets is limited: explorer frigs, indys and miners. I've had luck against destroyers, but that only because they were horribly fit and were the exception, not the rule. |
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Garnoo
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2014.12.29 23:09:28 -
[11] - Quote
bombers and the most powerful frigates (in raw dps) you will learn that EFT dps thats not everything you need...
People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back --á EvE
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Paranoid Loyd
3311
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Posted - 2014.12.29 23:13:44 -
[12] - Quote
Understanding Missile Damage
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Jurico Elemenohpe
14th Legion The Bloc
54
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Posted - 2014.12.30 08:48:04 -
[13] - Quote
I've only seen Wingspan do it once. He was attacking an untanked t1 exploration frigate that was sitting still, I'm pretty sure he had 2* tp and he was hitting for est ~1600. That's only 1 volley to kill, so yeah.. Might've been lower, this is just based on eft, and *.6 EFT says with 2*TP applied to imicus and perfect skills, 296 dps if imicus is sitting still (EFT does use the eve calculations afaik, so that should be correct). 469 max dps, so 296/496 = 0.59677419354. Round to .6, multiply alpha (4462) by .6 = 2677. Multiple by .6 again (because he doesn't have all V and I'm lazy and it should be close enough) = 1606. Assuming the Imicus had perfect skills, it would've had 1542 ehp against Kinetic. 1606>1542. |
Cheese Crackers
Opportunists Alike
18
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Posted - 2014.12.30 09:41:43 -
[14] - Quote
i believe wingspan said in one of his videos he runs flares for his bomber. two t2 flare rigs plus 2 t2 tps, near perfect skills and some good implants will have you ripping frigs up. also i never used to have a scram on a bomber. way i figured, if they are going to use it to run, it blooms their sig and ill only get 1-2 shots off and with that increased sig it usually spells death. |
Memory Fades
State War Academy Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2014.12.30 10:17:40 -
[15] - Quote
If the Astero wasn't moving, you'd kill it quickly enough. But for you not to be able to keep a point is strange. Were you using your MWD? (you shouldn't have needed to). You should be able to keep a Warp Disruptor + Target Painter long enough to kill a frigate. Just be careful not to get ganked back ^^ Because a frigate could orbit you and use 1 drone to kill you while you can't hit it with torpedos if it knows what its doing. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
358
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Posted - 2014.12.30 11:47:42 -
[16] - Quote
Cheese Crackers wrote:i believe wingspan said in one of his videos he runs flares for his bomber. 2 T2 Rigors in "The Nemesis of my Nemesis is my... Nemesis?" 1 T2 Rigor and something else (Poly?) in the fitting video. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
863
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Posted - 2014.12.30 13:10:11 -
[17] - Quote
Ya torps are a huge let down. Such massive DPS numbers on big things but you very rarely get to apply that DPS.
God help the thing that you do get to apply that dps to though.
Not today spaghetti.
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To mare
Advanced Technology
385
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Posted - 2014.12.30 13:50:37 -
[18] - Quote
Ryomaru Reaper wrote:How is that when all I see is people blowing up frigs with similair fits, and I can't ? because probably they have better skills, havin a character that just hopped in a torpedo boat with lv3-4 skills and one with all lv5 skill really help when fighting difficult targets, plus some minor fitting difference like rigs or target painter can close the gap even more |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1038
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Posted - 2014.12.30 14:45:32 -
[19] - Quote
Assuming that you are flying the bomber on this character, your #1 issue is the fact that you're flying a bomber with a 2 month old character. Yes, you can fly it, and yes, you can use torpedoes. But torpedoes are intended for use against large targets and don't do nearly as much damage to smaller targets. If you want to use bombers effectively against smaller targets you need to spend lots of time training support skills.
I'm not trying to dissuade you from roaming around in your bomber right now. Far from it actually, they're a blast to fly. But you have to have realistic expectations about your performance. Just understand that until you have all of your missile support skills trained to IV, CovOps IV, and, ideally, T2 torpedo launchers, your ability to engage frigates, and to some extent cruisers, will be very limited.
Also, make absolutely certain that you fit a target painter. They are really essential to making sure that you do as much damage as possible to frigates and cruisers. Two is better if you can fit them.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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Ryomaru Reaper
IKE Corporation
13
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Posted - 2014.12.30 15:10:25 -
[20] - Quote
Im delighted to see so many informative and detailed posts, for me to read.
Thanks all, I understand Eve a little bit more now, thanks ALOT! |
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Jurico Elemenohpe
14th Legion The Bloc
58
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Posted - 2014.12.30 16:42:46 -
[21] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Assuming that you are flying the bomber on this character, your #1 issue is the fact that you're flying a bomber with a 2 month old character. Yes, you can fly it, and yes, you can use torpedoes. But torpedoes are intended for use against large targets and don't do nearly as much damage to smaller targets. If you want to use bombers effectively against smaller targets you need to spend lots of time training support skills.
I'm not trying to dissuade you from roaming around in your bomber right now. Far from it actually, they're a blast to fly. But you have to have realistic expectations about your performance. Just understand that until you have all of your missile support skills trained to IV, CovOps IV, and, ideally, T2 torpedo launchers, your ability to engage frigates, and to some extent cruisers, will be very limited.
Also, make absolutely certain that you fit a target painter. They are really essential to making sure that you do as much damage as possible to frigates and cruisers. Two is better if you can fit them. eh. If you've been flying missile boats the entire time before hopping into an SB, it's probably safe to assume your supports are 3/4s, if you haven't really touched drones/guns. And if you've run only frigates, you probably have frigate V (probably caldari since it's missiles), so you've only got electronics upgrades/covops left. T2 torps would be the only thing missing but from what I've read, faction applies damage better anyway. Even if they didn't specialize into frigates, if they've specialized into missiles the point still stands. |
Quanah Comanche
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
48
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Posted - 2014.12.30 18:09:58 -
[22] - Quote
If all applicable skills are at 5 hopefully you know not to use torps on frigs. Mine are and I don't. |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
25
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Posted - 2015.01.05 01:47:43 -
[23] - Quote
Quanah Comanche wrote:If all applicable skills are at 5 hopefully you know not to use torps on frigs. Mine are and I don't.
If you are hunting explorers, just skill up rockets in the short term. Most, not all (as I have found out) explorers in frigs do not fight back or have much defense.
I have never found a benefit to using rockets against explorers. With dual painters and/or dual rigor catalysts, I have killed every exploration frig (Asteros notwithstanding) in 1-3 volleys using torpedoes.
Obviously this depends greatly on your torpedo damage and support skills, but even if they're 100% even, using rockets means you can ONLY engage frigates. Torpedoes keep your options open to larger ships, as well as structures. Good luck taking down a warp disruption bubble or an MTU with rockets in a reasonable timeframe!
You've just read another amazing post by WiNGSPANTT, the 4th Best Commentator on YouTube! GÇï Follow along with my exploration and stealth bomber adventures on my YouTube channel
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1073
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Posted - 2015.01.05 02:36:58 -
[24] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Torpedoes keep your options open to larger ships, as well as structures. Good luck taking down a warp disruption bubble or an MTU with rockets in a reasonable timeframe! Confirming that this is a thing.
Get your skills up and make sure you're fitting properly (painters, rigs), and keep those torps.
Real men hull tank.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I seek to create content, not become content.
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Ryomaru Reaper
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2015.01.05 17:20:10 -
[25] - Quote
(Chance Ravinne posted on my forum, keep your inner fanboy down boy, down!)
Yeah, that's correct it is a thing. Chance has proven that ten times over already. I figured out the problem was my own doing, not the torpedoes.
Skills are getting trained, and already see a huge increase in DPS.
Thanks everyone, much appreciated! |
Quanah Comanche
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
61
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Posted - 2015.01.05 18:14:43 -
[26] - Quote
Why just the other day one of the Wingspan newbs tried to blow up my Hound with Torps in a WH. Did not go his way as I used rockets. Then tried to tell me that they saw a video where it worked. Keep watching the vids.
You know you can carry a depot to switch weaponry? |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
28
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Posted - 2015.01.05 20:05:07 -
[27] - Quote
Quanah Comanche wrote:Why just the other day one of the Wingspan newbs tried to blow up my Hound with Torps in a WH. Did not go his way as I used rockets. Then tried to tell me that they saw a video where it worked. Keep watching the vids.
You know you can carry a depot to switch weaponry?
How dare you sully the name of my enterprise with your lies. WINGSPAN agents would never try to "blow up" anyone. You ordered torpedoes, and that's what you got. If you weren't happy with the products' explosion radius that is your problem. Let's try to remain professional, shall we?
You've just read another amazing post by WiNGSPANTT, the 4th Best Commentator on YouTube! GÇï Follow along with my exploration and stealth bomber adventures on my YouTube channel
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