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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1037
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 18:16:13 -
[451] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: What other things are affected beside what I already listed in the thread, namely target swapping between pre-locked targets?
Thats a pretty huge change when ultimately fleet fights come down to Alpha vs Logistics. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
549
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 18:32:26 -
[452] - Quote
DaeHan Minhyok wrote:The scan res changes decrease the drones ability to deal damage to smaller targets without changing the ability to defend against them, thus increasing the risk. no it doesn't
the drones do the same damage as before
they just don't start doing damage until a small period of time has passed |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1037
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 18:44:47 -
[453] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:DaeHan Minhyok wrote:The scan res changes decrease the drones ability to deal damage to smaller targets without changing the ability to defend against them, thus increasing the risk. no it doesn't the drones do the same damage as before they just don't start doing damage until a small period of time has passed
Or until you need to switch targets because Logi.
CFC spends a year whining about logi, now applauds an increase to effectiveness of Logi. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
549
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 18:49:44 -
[454] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:DaeHan Minhyok wrote:The scan res changes decrease the drones ability to deal damage to smaller targets without changing the ability to defend against them, thus increasing the risk. no it doesn't the drones do the same damage as before they just don't start doing damage until a small period of time has passed Or until you need to switch targets because Logi. CFC spends a year whining about logi, now applauds an increase to effectiveness of Logi. capital ships have enough buffer to survive for the 20 seconds of extra dps that would have been afforded by reverting this change
and yeah it is 20-22 seconds worst case GÇö-áhttp://www.wolframalpha.com/share/clip?f=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e1cabig6plr here is a graph of a mantis locking a variety of targets upon which it is intended to shoot |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1038
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 18:57:37 -
[455] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:DaeHan Minhyok wrote:The scan res changes decrease the drones ability to deal damage to smaller targets without changing the ability to defend against them, thus increasing the risk. no it doesn't the drones do the same damage as before they just don't start doing damage until a small period of time has passed Or until you need to switch targets because Logi. CFC spends a year whining about logi, now applauds an increase to effectiveness of Logi. capital ships have enough buffer to survive for the 20 seconds of extra dps that would have been afforded by reverting this change and yeah it is 20-22 seconds worst case GÇö-áhttp://www.wolframalpha.com/share/clip?f=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e1cabig6plr here is a graph of a mantis locking a variety of targets upon which it is intended to shoot
Ok cool now lets see how that looks against Battleship Fleets. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
550
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 19:00:18 -
[456] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: capital ships have enough buffer to survive for the 20 seconds of extra dps that would have been afforded by reverting this change
and yeah it is 20-22 seconds worst case GÇö-áhttp://www.wolframalpha.com/share/clip?f=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e1cabig6plr here is a graph of a mantis locking a variety of targets upon which it is intended to shoot
Ok cool now lets see how that looks against Battleship Fleets. you don't use fighters against battleship fleets, you use sentries
but hey sure why not
http://www.wolframalpha.com/share/clip?f=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e5o5ft4vmq2
a staggering 9 second delay, if the battleships are right on top of the carriers
otherwise whoops travel time takes care of that |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
550
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 19:01:03 -
[457] - Quote
unless you meant using fighterbombers against battleship fleets in which case L M B O |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
550
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 19:03:31 -
[458] - Quote
and hey for shits and giggles we'll do the same pre-nerf fighter
http://www.wolframalpha.com/share/clip?f=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427en2evd7tn8l
so the nerf is adding an earth-shattering 4.5 seconds to the lock time of the fighters
truly we have seen the last straw for fighters, may they RIP in peace |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5727
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 19:07:27 -
[459] - Quote
Oh snap, you went all Wolfram on them!
Math ftw!
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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DaeHan Minhyok
Multiplex Gaming The Bastion
48
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Posted - 2015.01.08 19:09:45 -
[460] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:DaeHan Minhyok wrote:The scan res changes decrease the drones ability to deal damage to smaller targets without changing the ability to defend against them, thus increasing the risk. no it doesn't the drones do the same damage as before they just don't start doing damage until a small period of time has passed Pretty sure scan res also effects tracking? |
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
550
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 19:12:05 -
[461] - Quote
DaeHan Minhyok wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:DaeHan Minhyok wrote:The scan res changes decrease the drones ability to deal damage to smaller targets without changing the ability to defend against them, thus increasing the risk. no it doesn't the drones do the same damage as before they just don't start doing damage until a small period of time has passed Pretty sure scan res also effects tracking? nope
you are thinking of signature resolution
which fighterbombers don't even use on account of firing pseudo-missiles |
Panther X
High Flyers The Kadeshi
45
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 19:12:35 -
[462] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:
rest in peace in peace?
Boom headshot!
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
550
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 19:14:30 -
[463] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/YhU3GFY.jpg |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
1908
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 19:16:56 -
[464] - Quote
DaeHan Minhyok wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:DaeHan Minhyok wrote:The scan res changes decrease the drones ability to deal damage to smaller targets without changing the ability to defend against them, thus increasing the risk. no it doesn't the drones do the same damage as before they just don't start doing damage until a small period of time has passed Pretty sure scan res also effects tracking? nope. only lock time. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1038
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 19:17:17 -
[465] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Thats not a huge change I guess for Fighters. FB's vs Capitals however is some cause for concern. Id hate to see Sentry Carriers become the goto again due to impracticality of SCs being able to target switch through reps.
That being said. CCP should still just put a timer on relaunching drones. It solves all the problems and prevents all ships from being able to abuse this mechanic, and add server load.
Thanks for the graphs though! |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
80
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Posted - 2015.01.08 19:45:59 -
[466] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: Thats not a huge change I guess for Fighters. FB's vs Capitals however is some cause for concern. Id hate to see Sentry Carriers become the goto again due to impracticality of SCs being able to target switch through reps. That being said. CCP should still just put a timer on relaunching drones. It solves all the problems and prevents all ships from being able to abuse this mechanic, and add server load. Thanks for the graphs though!
As long as they change it so other weapon systems can be destroyed as well, and the only way to protect them is put them offline and on a timer before being able to use them again its all good. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
550
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 19:57:02 -
[467] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: Thats not a huge change I guess for Fighters. FB's vs Capitals however is some cause for concern. Id hate to see Sentry Carriers become the goto again due to impracticality of SCs being able to target switch through reps. That being said. CCP should still just put a timer on relaunching drones. It solves all the problems and prevents all ships from being able to abuse this mechanic, and add server load. Thanks for the graphs though! nah
being able to swap drones is needed for drone users, and putting a global cooldown on drone swaps hurts everyone disproportionately to solve the problem
lowering the scan res of a drone solves the specific problem in the most elegant possible way |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
313
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 20:21:56 -
[468] - Quote
Maybe we should just get the Goon CCP Developers to remove all super/titans and bpos from the game, reimbursing players with a new type of LP that gives faction ships/carriers, and a box of tissues for them to claim. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
550
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 21:21:34 -
[469] - Quote
oh hey
Marlona Sky wrote: I guess that blog by your leader not long ago, ordering all goons to NOT sell their super capitals, is a figment of my imagination?
following up on this:
Quote: Everyone in NC. is required to have both a Dreadnaught and a Carrier they should be located in QueriousEveryone in NC. should be working towards owning a SC or a Titan and current pilots who own them should NOT be selling them regardless of what you think to changes CCP make! They are a SUPER important part of this game more so now than ever! You are not allowed to sell SCs and Titans outside of NC. PERIOD anyone found doing so will pay a tax for doing so which will be used to help other members get into Titans and SCs. (No this isnGÇÖt a joke)
L M B O |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
550
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 21:22:24 -
[470] - Quote
but yeah i could see conflating your own alliance's supercap policies with those of goonswarm federation, noted eve: online sov haver |
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1038
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 21:25:59 -
[471] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote: nah
being able to swap drones is needed for drone users, and putting a global cooldown on drone swaps hurts everyone disproportionately to solve the problem
lowering the scan res of a drone solves the specific problem in the most elegant possible way
Having a timer doesn't limit you from being able to swap drones though, it just delays the process, as it should be. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
550
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 21:36:32 -
[472] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: nah
being able to swap drones is needed for drone users, and putting a global cooldown on drone swaps hurts everyone disproportionately to solve the problem
lowering the scan res of a drone solves the specific problem in the most elegant possible way
Having a timer doesn't limit you from being able to swap drones though, it just delays the process, as it should be. yeah I am saying that that is garbage and would disproportionately affect other drone havers to fix a problem that is easily solved by lowering the scan resolution of specific drones |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1039
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 22:58:23 -
[473] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: nah
being able to swap drones is needed for drone users, and putting a global cooldown on drone swaps hurts everyone disproportionately to solve the problem
lowering the scan res of a drone solves the specific problem in the most elegant possible way
Having a timer doesn't limit you from being able to swap drones though, it just delays the process, as it should be. yeah I am saying that that is garbage and would disproportionately affect other drone havers to fix a problem that is easily solved by lowering the scan resolution of specific drones
Right because its not like we need a reason to discourage drone usage in fleets or anything like that...
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
550
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 23:05:25 -
[474] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: nah
being able to swap drones is needed for drone users, and putting a global cooldown on drone swaps hurts everyone disproportionately to solve the problem
lowering the scan res of a drone solves the specific problem in the most elegant possible way
Having a timer doesn't limit you from being able to swap drones though, it just delays the process, as it should be. yeah I am saying that that is garbage and would disproportionately affect other drone havers to fix a problem that is easily solved by lowering the scan resolution of specific drones Right because its not like we need a reason to discourage drone usage in fleets or anything like that... it also affects drone havers in smaller gangs and solo
also drone redeploy timer is hella circumventable in fleet fights by not changing drones
it's just a bad idea with too many flaws in it
scan res nerf on fighter(bomber)s is elegant, functional, and without collateral damage |
Panther X
High Flyers The Kadeshi
45
|
Posted - 2015.01.09 00:22:14 -
[475] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:oh hey Marlona Sky wrote: I guess that blog by your leader not long ago, ordering all goons to NOT sell their super capitals, is a figment of my imagination?
following up on this: Quote: Everyone in NC. is required to have both a Dreadnaught and a Carrier they should be located in QueriousEveryone in NC. should be working towards owning a SC or a Titan and current pilots who own them should NOT be selling them regardless of what you think to changes CCP make! They are a SUPER important part of this game more so now than ever! You are not allowed to sell SCs and Titans outside of NC. PERIOD anyone found doing so will pay a tax for doing so which will be used to help other members get into Titans and SCs. (No this isnGÇÖt a joke)
L M B O
Thank you EveSkunk
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
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Panther X
High Flyers The Kadeshi
45
|
Posted - 2015.01.09 00:24:21 -
[476] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: nah
being able to swap drones is needed for drone users, and putting a global cooldown on drone swaps hurts everyone disproportionately to solve the problem
lowering the scan res of a drone solves the specific problem in the most elegant possible way
Having a timer doesn't limit you from being able to swap drones though, it just delays the process, as it should be. yeah I am saying that that is garbage and would disproportionately affect other drone havers to fix a problem that is easily solved by lowering the scan resolution of specific drones Right because its not like we need a reason to discourage drone usage in fleets or anything like that... it also affects drone havers in smaller gangs and solo also drone redeploy timer is hella circumventable in fleet fights by not changing drones it's just a bad idea with too many flaws in it scan res nerf on fighter(bomber)s is elegant, functional, and without collateral damage
You do have, ugh I hate to admit it, a valid point. Kill me, I know, I actually agreed with a Goon. I need to have a shower now. I feel so dirty.
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
300
|
Posted - 2015.01.09 04:31:51 -
[477] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:Bienator II wrote:sounds reasonable. any changes planed to address skynet carriers? To quote Fozzie: Quote:I know that some people who are hoping for a major nerf to assigned fighters will be unhappy that this change will only have a small-moderate effect on that activity. We have been keeping a close eye on the way fighters are used ever since our recent rounds of drone rebalancing and we aren't ruling out any potential future changes at this time. However we are not going to rush into any larger changes to fighter mechanics.
It is a topic that I have and several other members of the CSM have brought up with CCP as a problem. No solutions for you yet, sad to say. I think so far the CSM and CCP are doing a stellar job at reducing the effectiveness and usability of carriers and supers. (sarcasm intended)
Quote: We will evolve these key systems with the ambition of strengthening the unique sandbox gameplay in EVE, making territorial warfare available to both big and small groups Before any details are announced the ability of a small group to take or hold sov is reduced because a subset of players wanted to complain and CCP was too lazy to actually fix the issue they were complaining about and threw the nerf bat around instead..
"IF" the perceived problem was supers recalling and quickly launching bombers to increase DPS. Why not just give them (and carriers) a relaunching delay. Recall drones and have to wait say 5 seconds before you can relaunch. (no need to nerf everyone for the supposed abuse of a few)
If assigned fighters/bombers is considered a problem - limit the range for assigning fighters/bombers. EG; you want to assign your fighters to a friend who is camping a gate - you must be within your drone control range, of the ship your fighters are assigned to. I have several carriers and am still mystified every time I can assign my fighters to someone 15AU from me. (my bad here sorry, this might actually lead to more conflict - that is obviously not the aim with the proposed changes)
1 or 2 simple, reasonable, well thought out changes could eliminate the need for "potential future changes". If the simple changes are found to be ineffective you can look at it again. Just don't start with the nerf bat, there are alternatives. Fozzie states this change will not meet player expectations - so why do it? Of course - 6 week release cycle and change was promised so right or wrong, good or bad we get it..
CCP bosses need to hide the nerf bat in a cupboard and make Devs come up with simple realistic change without these half assed attempts that don't address perceived problems.
Yet another nerf to capital game play for the whole of eve because a few players are thought to have abused a flawed mechanic. As is the pattern with CCP Devs - Don't fix the flaw - Just nerf game play around it.
Your not evolving sandbox game play - You are directing it into small defined categories. Evolution of a sandbox would be expanding it, to date the sandbox element of eve is getting narrower in scope.
- - - - - - - - - Suggestion for a new (honest) advertising campaign - Welcome to CCP's all new NerfsOnline (AKA EveOnline), the only sandbox game available where every 6 weeks a new set of nerfs to game play will be released. Devs prefer to nerf game play and add effects which limit player choice rather than fix issues with game mechanics. Nerfing the game play of every subscriber due to the possibly inappropriate actions of a small group is seen as the way forward. Also - You will get regular updates that produce pretty colours and effects, boring unidentifiable icons and very limited and not so user friendly selections. If you want to play a sandbox game where "the sky is the limit" and you can play as you choose - NerfsOnline is probably not your best choice.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
659
|
Posted - 2015.01.09 08:33:52 -
[478] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Panther X wrote:Having a timer doesn't limit you from being able to swap drones though, it just delays the process, as it should be. yeah I am saying that that is garbage and would disproportionately affect other drone havers to fix a problem that is easily solved by lowering the scan resolution of specific drones
Right because its not like we need a reason to discourage drone usage in fleets or anything like that... [/quote] it also affects drone havers in smaller gangs and solo
also drone redeploy timer is hella circumventable in fleet fights by not changing drones
it's just a bad idea with too many flaws in it
scan res nerf on fighter(bomber)s is elegant, functional, and without collateral damage[/quote]
You do have, ugh I hate to admit it, a valid point. Kill me, I know, I actually agreed with a Goon. I need to have a shower now. I feel so dirty. [/quote]
I'd bet that it wouldnt stop the exploit either - I'd betcha that an abandon/reconnect would probably work.
Not tested. Conjecture.....but I bet it would.
Might have messed up quotes. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5728
|
Posted - 2015.01.09 11:05:18 -
[479] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Sugar Kyle wrote:Bienator II wrote:sounds reasonable. any changes planed to address skynet carriers? To quote Fozzie: Quote:I know that some people who are hoping for a major nerf to assigned fighters will be unhappy that this change will only have a small-moderate effect on that activity. We have been keeping a close eye on the way fighters are used ever since our recent rounds of drone rebalancing and we aren't ruling out any potential future changes at this time. However we are not going to rush into any larger changes to fighter mechanics.
It is a topic that I have and several other members of the CSM have brought up with CCP as a problem. No solutions for you yet, sad to say. I think so far the CSM and CCP are doing a stellar job at reducing the effectiveness and usability of carriers and supers. (sarcasm intended) Quote: We will evolve these key systems with the ambition of strengthening the unique sandbox gameplay in EVE, making territorial warfare available to both big and small groups Before any details are announced the ability of a small group to take or hold sov is reduced because a subset of players wanted to complain and CCP was too lazy to actually fix the issue they were complaining about and threw the nerf bat around instead.. "IF" the perceived problem was supers recalling and quickly launching bombers to increase DPS. Why not just give them (and carriers) a relaunching delay. Recall drones and have to wait say 5 seconds before you can relaunch. (no need to nerf everyone for the supposed abuse of a few) If assigned fighters/bombers is considered a problem - limit the range for assigning fighters/bombers. EG; you want to assign your fighters to a friend who is camping a gate - you must be within your drone control range, of the ship your fighters are assigned to. I have several carriers and am still mystified every time I can assign my fighters to someone 15AU from me. (my bad here sorry, this might actually lead to more conflict - that is obviously not the aim with the proposed changes) 1 or 2 simple, reasonable, well thought out changes could eliminate the need for "potential future changes". If the simple changes are found to be ineffective you can look at it again. Just don't start with the nerf bat, there are alternatives. Fozzie states this change will not meet player expectations - so why do it? Of course - 6 week release cycle and change was promised so right or wrong, good or bad we get it.. CCP bosses need to hide the nerf bat in a cupboard and make Devs come up with simple realistic change without these half assed attempts that don't address perceived problems. Yet another nerf to capital game play for the whole of eve because a few players are thought to have abused a flawed mechanic. As is the pattern with CCP Devs - Don't fix the flaw - Just nerf game play around it. Your not evolving sandbox game play - You are directing it into small defined categories. Evolution of a sandbox would be expanding it, to date the sandbox element of eve is getting narrower in scope. - - - - - - - - - Suggestion for a new (honest) advertising campaign - Welcome to CCP's all new NerfsOnline (AKA EveOnline), the only sandbox game available where every 6 weeks a new set of nerfs to game play will be released. Devs prefer to nerf game play and add effects which limit player choice rather than fix issues with game mechanics. Nerfing the game play of every subscriber due to the possibly inappropriate actions of a small group is seen as the way forward. Also - You will get regular updates that produce pretty colours and effects, boring unidentifiable icons and very limited and not so user friendly selections. If you want to play a sandbox game where "the sky is the limit" and you can play as you choose - NerfsOnline is probably not your best choice.
Welcome to the conversation - you're about 20 pages behind. All of your points have been addressed several times over.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Dadrom
Twenty Questions RAZOR Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2015.01.09 12:30:19 -
[480] - Quote
im sorry but i do not agree with the course you guys are taking . Players that spen months training carriers are getting punished for it . If you want to keep nerfing carriers it would be at least decent thing to refund half SP.. since they are now half as needed and effective
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