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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
1009
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Posted - 2015.01.06 16:55:26 -
[211] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Can you take away Carriers' sentry drones too, please?
Mr Omniblivion wrote:Carriers are fine with sentries, Ishtars need to have sentries nerfed :)
lel. Nice. Would it not be simpler to just nerf sentries?
PErsonally, I feel that sentries have no place on sub-large ship hulls. What we have is a meta of BS-sized weapons on a HAC, with HAC application stats. I would be perfectly fine with Ishtars having bonuses to small, medium, and large drones. Make them hit hard and fast. Velocity and application bonuses to all subcap drones? Cool. LEave sentry combat to caps.
Another alternaitve is to make sentries, fighters, and fighter-bombers require more bandwidth, and adjust caps to have more bandwidth so their ability to use those drones is not affected. Meanwhile, subcaps would not be able to field a full flight of sentries like they can now.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
22
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Posted - 2015.01.06 16:55:52 -
[212] - Quote
Tykonderoga wrote:The real issue is the fact that this is a made up exploit, if it even is an exploit. The real issue the disdain that devs like Fozzie have for Supers and Titans. NCDOT is the largest owner of supers in the game, and let me tell you a little secret, we don't use them, not for months. They are used strategically and very rarely. So when I hear people rant and rave about them being overpowered and an i-win-button, it is completely inaccurate. The days of fishing with supers died in this patch.
Supers are supposed to be powerful and intimidating machines of war, not highly specialized, vulnerable manatees that can be killed by small to medium-sized gangs. Oh, and they are taken down by small to medium-sized gangs. They are supposed to be a force multiplier. They are supposed to powerful and intimidating and able to screw you over in your 200mil isk HAC. They are not supposed to be killed in a comical way by a small force.
So I am calling out Fozzie. Just tell us what the long term rebalancing on Supers is. It is unfair to those who invest in a character and tens of billions of isk to buy one and properly fit one. You owe us that. You owe us honesty and not dishonesty.
Some players have poured over a decade into your game. That means over a decade of subscriptions and time. Now you are telling us that our end game is virtually useless. Now you are telling us our play style is irrelevant . You are telling us that what you can train in months and acquire in a few hundred mil is the true end game. You are telling us that you have to take in every mouthbreather who can fly an ibis. You are telling us to destroy our community, which we like small, to attract the new player.
How is that fair? How is that right?
Supers are supposed to be caps hunters... Deal with it. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
648
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 16:57:12 -
[213] - Quote
Tykonderoga wrote:afkalt wrote:Let me see if I have this straight.
Because your capital ship target swapping is now bad on SUBCAPS, all your supers are now utterly worthless and you're basically ragequitting?
Sounds one hell of a lot like the people who quit, rage and/or whine after code gank them.
PS: Supported caps dont die to small gangs, stupid caps die to small gangs. I'm sorry, but I can't hear you over the voice of your anonymous and presumably noob character.
That's ok, your tears are utterly delicious.
OM NOM NOM. |
Tykonderoga
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
24
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Posted - 2015.01.06 16:58:07 -
[214] - Quote
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:Tykonderoga wrote:The real issue is the fact that this is a made up exploit, if it even is an exploit. The real issue the disdain that devs like Fozzie have for Supers and Titans. NCDOT is the largest owner of supers in the game, and let me tell you a little secret, we don't use them, not for months. They are used strategically and very rarely. So when I hear people rant and rave about them being overpowered and an i-win-button, it is completely inaccurate. The days of fishing with supers died in this patch.
Supers are supposed to be powerful and intimidating machines of war, not highly specialized, vulnerable manatees that can be killed by small to medium-sized gangs. Oh, and they are taken down by small to medium-sized gangs. They are supposed to be a force multiplier. They are supposed to powerful and intimidating and able to screw you over in your 200mil isk HAC. They are not supposed to be killed in a comical way by a small force.
So I am calling out Fozzie. Just tell us what the long term rebalancing on Supers is. It is unfair to those who invest in a character and tens of billions of isk to buy one and properly fit one. You owe us that. You owe us honesty and not dishonesty.
Some players have poured over a decade into your game. That means over a decade of subscriptions and time. Now you are telling us that our end game is virtually useless. Now you are telling us our play style is irrelevant . You are telling us that what you can train in months and acquire in a few hundred mil is the true end game. You are telling us that you have to take in every mouthbreather who can fly an ibis. You are telling us to destroy our community, which we like small, to attract the new player.
How is that fair? How is that right? Supers are supposed to be caps hunters... Deal with it.
If that is all you took away from what I wrote then you have poor critical thinking skills, friend.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
540
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Posted - 2015.01.06 16:58:18 -
[215] - Quote
Tykonderoga wrote:NCDOT is the largest owner of supers in the game [citation needed] |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
648
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:00:06 -
[216] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Tykonderoga wrote:NCDOT is the largest owner of supers in the game [citation needed]
Going by the tearfest in here.....may be something to it. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1677
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Posted - 2015.01.06 17:01:22 -
[217] - Quote
Tykonderoga wrote: NCDOT is the largest owner of supers in the game, and let me tell you a little secret, we don't use them, not for months.
No you aren't.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
396
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:01:27 -
[218] - Quote
Tykonderoga wrote:The real issue is the fact that this is a made up exploit, if it even is an exploit. The real issue the disdain that devs like Fozzie have for Supers and Titans. NCDOT is the largest owner of supers in the game actually you're not
you're just not good at anything else so without your supers you're nothing |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1017
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:02:23 -
[219] - Quote
Tykonderoga wrote:The real issue is the fact that this is a made up exploit, if it even is an exploit. The real issue the disdain that devs like Fozzie have for Supers and Titans. NCDOT is the largest owner of supers in the game, and let me tell you a little secret, we don't use them, not for months. They are used strategically and very rarely. So when I hear people rant and rave about them being overpowered and an i-win-button, it is completely inaccurate. The days of fishing with supers died in this patch.
Supers are supposed to be powerful and intimidating machines of war, not highly specialized, vulnerable manatees that can be killed by small to medium-sized gangs. Oh, and they are taken down by small to medium-sized gangs. They are supposed to be a force multiplier. They are supposed to powerful and intimidating and able to screw you over in your 200mil isk HAC. They are not supposed to be killed in a comical way by a small force.
So I am calling out Fozzie. Just tell us what the long term rebalancing on Supers is. It is unfair to those who invest in a character and tens of billions of isk to buy one and properly fit one. You owe us that. You owe us honesty and not dishonesty.
Some players have poured over a decade into your game. That means over a decade of subscriptions and time. Now you are telling us that our end game is virtually useless. Now you are telling us our play style is irrelevant . You are telling us that what you can train in months and acquire in a few hundred mil is the true end game. You are telling us that you have to take in every mouthbreather who can fly an ibis. You are telling us to destroy our community, which we like small, to attract the new player.
How is that fair? How is that right?
What a horse **** post.
Supers should never be in consideration for "end all be all" nor should Titans or any ship in the game. They should be strong but should be susceptible to a coordinated attack even by smaller ships. Every ship should be vulnerable, and capable against everything else. Also there is no such thing as endgame in a sand box, and the moment something begins to shape up as one it is time for a change, and since Supers and Titans are not at the point of being "endgame" are still rarely used, and do not function as an I win button any more than 1000 dudes in Battleships do.
Of course saying that doesn't mean I agree with this change. It is an unnecessary nerf to every function of fighters and bombers, in effort to stop and exploit, that most people probably didn't even know about until this thread. If this is truly to stop an exploit just put a relaunch timer on the drone bay so players can't pick up and drop drones.
I mean if this is supposed to curb an abuse, what about ECM Drones that can be picked up and dropped still without any change in delay?
Fix the actual issue if there is an issue.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
540
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:04:36 -
[220] - Quote
lawl having your raison d'+Žtre drowned out by goons
good thing you define your existence as being diametrically opposed to us or you'd be sitting in one hell of an existential crisis right now |
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
540
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Posted - 2015.01.06 17:08:27 -
[221] - Quote
Tykonderoga wrote:NCDOT is the largest owner of supers in the game this is why y'all chickened out on turkey day Y-2ANO right, when we brought supercaps down to rep the station |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
396
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:15:43 -
[222] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: Fix the actual issue if there is an issue.
people keep saying this and not really 'getting' it
ccp has a limited number of people who are good enough at the engine code to tinker with it in the ways completely fixing this would require
in addition, we have no idea of the amount of work this would require and it's probably relatively considerable
so we have the question, what is a better result: spend a lot of valuble engine coding time fixing a rare bug, or making it go away with mechanics changes (which can be done by non-programmers)
this obviously took a short amount of time to figure out and implement and works just fine in fixing the bug in the most egregious situations and does so without draining dev time from more pressing priorities, a clear win |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
396
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:16:48 -
[223] - Quote
the histronics from people who were apparently abusing the **** out of this bug is the cherry of course |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1019
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Posted - 2015.01.06 17:21:14 -
[224] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: Fix the actual issue if there is an issue.
people keep saying this and not really 'getting' it ccp has a limited number of people who are good enough at the engine code to tinker with it in the ways completely fixing this would require in addition, we have no idea of the amount of work this would require and it's probably relatively considerable
They didn't seem to have an issue adding a whole new timer mechanic to the use of jump drives, portals and bridges though.
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
1010
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:22:21 -
[225] - Quote
Tykonderoga wrote:They wont because it is a purely ideologically made decision. Basically, some at CCP hate supers and titans and think they were a bad idea in the first place. So instead of being upfront about that and removing them from the game with compensation, they want to make them useless.
They were a bad idea. They deserve to be hated. They will never be removed with compensation. If CCP were to remove and reimburse caps, the economy would be utterly decimated by trillions upon trillions of isk being suddenly and instantaneously introduced into the system. A similar thing would happen if they were compensated in minerals.
Imagine if your alliance suddenly had 20 trillion isk. How much of Jita could you buy?
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
397
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:27:25 -
[226] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: They didn't seem to have an issue adding a whole new timer mechanic to the use of jump drives, portals and bridges though.
yes because in that case they made the decision that the engine changes were the way to go
are you incapable of understanding that different problems may have different solutions, i dislike the spaceaids solution but this is a dumb response |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1020
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:33:06 -
[227] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Tykonderoga wrote:They wont because it is a purely ideologically made decision. Basically, some at CCP hate supers and titans and think they were a bad idea in the first place. So instead of being upfront about that and removing them from the game with compensation, they want to make them useless. They were a bad idea. They deserve to be hated. They will never be removed with compensation. If CCP were to remove and reimburse caps, the economy would be utterly decimated by trillions upon trillions of isk being suddenly and instantaneously introduced into the system. A similar thing would happen if they were compensated in minerals. Imagine if your alliance suddenly had 20 trillion isk. How much of Jita could you buy?
I doubt they will reimburse Isk for anything but perhaps the skillbook cost for removed skills and of course SP related to the usage of that ship.
So any SP in Titans. + Cost of Titan Book any SP in FB's. + Cost of FB Book.
Anything SP wise that is usable by other ships in the game wouldn't be reimbursed, Carrier skills for example.
For the ships and the FBs...Refund the minerals for the ships not the isk.
Player logs in and gets to choose which station his pile of minerals that used to be an Avatar go to. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
540
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:35:19 -
[228] - Quote
they're not going to reimburse anything
they have no reason to do so |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
649
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:38:05 -
[229] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: Fix the actual issue if there is an issue.
people keep saying this and not really 'getting' it ccp has a limited number of people who are good enough at the engine code to tinker with it in the ways completely fixing this would require in addition, we have no idea of the amount of work this would require and it's probably relatively considerable They didn't seem to have an issue adding a whole new timer mechanic to the use of jump drives, portals and bridges though. Moreover we should not be willing to accept what is a terrible change because CCP is either to inept, or to lazy to code an actual fix to the problem. Again if this is a problem, why are only Fighters and Bombers being targeted. If this is a clear cut issue of Drones being abused by skirting cycle timer delays, then why are ECM drones not on this list?
Cycle time not that long (I maintain fighters are a mystery) to be worth it on ECM. AND they don't give the dps boost. Escaping and doubling (or more) a supers dps are quite seperate things. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
540
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:38:39 -
[230] - Quote
hell, as a supercap haver myself, i know that when they are eventually castrated, i will receive no compensation and the very idea will be the butt of jokes for years to come
this is a bargain one implicitly accepts when chasing the fotm |
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Anton Menges Saddat
Minion Revolution SpaceMonkey's Alliance
70
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:39:51 -
[231] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: They didn't seem to have an issue adding a whole new timer mechanic to the use of jump drives, portals and bridges though.
yes because in that case they made the decision that the engine changes were the way to go are you incapable of understanding that different problems may have different solutions, i dislike the spaceaids solution but this is a dumb response i personally feel that it is intellectually dishonest to claim it i is a response to an 'exploit' and then only make the change affect 2 very specific types of drones. as stated earlier, launching drones, having them travel to target, fire once, and then return, recall, and relaunch, particularly under TIDI, is not very practical in terms of actual applied damage, especially for fighters which have a shorter cycle time. because of this i have a hard time believing said exploit is even the real reason for this nerf, as there are other solutions and furthermore this change doesn't affect any other type of drone or boat. just call it what it is, a nerf to locking and switching between subcapital targets. one could argue this is perhaps needed for fighter bombers (although who the hell uses fighterbombers against subcaps to begin with?) but this change is particularly odious in regards to fighters because it is yet another nerf to super capabilities especially in defensive situations. i mean, god forbid i have a chance of killing those hics pointing me, rite? |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
540
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:40:46 -
[232] - Quote
Anton Menges Saddat wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: They didn't seem to have an issue adding a whole new timer mechanic to the use of jump drives, portals and bridges though.
yes because in that case they made the decision that the engine changes were the way to go are you incapable of understanding that different problems may have different solutions, i dislike the spaceaids solution but this is a dumb response i personally feel that it is intellectually dishonest to claim it i is a response to an 'exploit' and then only make the change affect 2 very specific types of drones. as stated earlier, launching drones, having them travel to target, fire once, and then return, recall, and relaunch, particularly under TIDI, is not very practical in terms of actual applied damage, especially for fighters which have a shorter cycle time. because of this i have a hard time believing said exploit is even the real reason for this nerf, as there are other solutions and furthermore this change doesn't affect any other type of drone or boat. just call it what it is, a nerf to locking and switching between subcapital targets. one could argue this is perhaps needed for fighter bombers (although who the hell uses fighterbombers against subcaps to begin with?) but this change is particularly odious in regards to fighters because it is yet another nerf to super capabilities especially in defensive situations. i mean, god forbid i have a chance of killing those hics pointing me, rite? ncdot parachute detected |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1020
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:45:16 -
[233] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: They didn't seem to have an issue adding a whole new timer mechanic to the use of jump drives, portals and bridges though.
yes because in that case they made the decision that the engine changes were the way to go are you incapable of understanding that different problems may have different solutions, i dislike the spaceaids solution but this is a dumb response
So if this is an actual problem with the game, why shouldn't we expect CCP to actually fix the problem. |
Nac Lac
Vicis Inter Astrum I'd Rather Be Roaming
4
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Posted - 2015.01.06 17:46:05 -
[234] - Quote
Let's look at this from the code perspective.
-A redeploy timer on each drone adds one more thing for the server to remember. Now, remember the lag from TiDi battles? It is now worse. -Scan res is already used to lock ships for drones. Increasing this delay means the server needs to do nothing new. No extra load, no extra lag.
Lets look at the redeploy from a drone pilot perspective.
-By focusing drones and preventing a redeploy for x seconds, all drone boats are useless for PvP, and the battleships/battlecruisers are now easy targets for frigates. Why? Because their dps from drones is now crippled if you recall drones to change out which you are deploying or because a drone is being focused. -Is the delay triggered from one drone recall? Great, now I lose 25% to 20% damage because I'm recalling one drone to remove aggression on it, pvp or pve.
So, knock it off with the "redeployment timer" stuff. Think about the reprecussions of adding it in. No, recoding it won't fix it, because again, another variable to keep track of. The scan res fix is the best fix for a server optimization perspective. No new code, no extra lag, no nerfing of drone boats.
Now, let's look at why only fighters and fighter bombers are targeted in this nerf, specifically.
-Sentries, heavies, mediums, and lights have a fire rate of 4 seconds, lock time 2 seconds. Let's see you scoop and deploy in under 2 seconds. Which is the cut off point for any improvement in dps.
-A super or carrier sitting at 0 on a target will see a dps gain by scooping and redeploying, this isn't up for debate. General use scenarios aren't a factor in fixing an exploit. The majority of exploits are fixing edge cases, game or field notwithstanding.
-ECM drones do have an argument for being affected by the scan res fix as well, due to the 20 second cooldown. However, my thoughts are, if CCP is considering an ECM rebalance, why change the drones now and again later? The gains from redeploying ECM drones are much smaller than the gains of redeploying 150,000 alpha damage faster than intended.
If you want a more elegant fix than just doing scan res nerf, why not change Drone Damage Amps to a rate of fire bonus instead of flat damage? Higher boosted damage means less gains from redeploying, since the window for positive damage gains is much smaller. Also, as a happy coincidence, will nerf Ishtar volley damage. Everybody wins!
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
540
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:48:13 -
[235] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: They didn't seem to have an issue adding a whole new timer mechanic to the use of jump drives, portals and bridges though.
yes because in that case they made the decision that the engine changes were the way to go are you incapable of understanding that different problems may have different solutions, i dislike the spaceaids solution but this is a dumb response So if this is an actual problem with the game, why shouldn't we expect CCP to actually fix the problem. lowering drone scan res fixes the problem |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
397
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:48:42 -
[236] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: So if this is an actual problem with the game, why shouldn't we expect CCP to actually fix the problem.
because there's loads of problems, who cares what you 'expect'
the correct thing to do is to prioritize scarce resources. once resources become infinite or time becomes infinite all problems will be addressed, until one of those happens fix the problems that get the best return on effort first |
Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
22
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Posted - 2015.01.06 17:48:54 -
[237] - Quote
So many tears here uglaglagla, GJ CCP ! |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1023
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:53:12 -
[238] - Quote
Or you just make Abandon/Scoop/Return to drone bay an overriding command that functions like "reloading" on other weapons platforms. Once you click abandon/scoop/return to drone bay you are locked out of issuing a command to your drones for 20 seconds.
*Return and Orbit will not start this timer.
Poof now you only have 1 timer to track, and it applied to all drones within that ship. No more spooky lag than reloading turrets cause.
and probably not that much to code...**** they managed to make "jump to beacon" give everyone 2 timers im sure they can take 3 inputs and generate one timer.
Maybe they can't, but they should.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
540
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 17:59:42 -
[239] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Or you just make Abandon/Scoop/Return to drone bay an overriding command that functions like "reloading" on other weapons platforms. Once you click abandon/scoop/return to drone bay you are locked out of issuing a command to your drones for 20 seconds.
*Return and Orbit will not start this timer.
Poof now you only have 1 timer to track, and it applied to all drones within that ship. No more spooky lag than reloading turrets cause.
and probably not that much to code...**** they managed to make 3 different "jump to beacon options" give everyone 2 timers im sure they can take 3 inputs and generate one timer.
Maybe they can't, but they should.
Here is even a message you can display
"The Drone Bay will be cleared in approximately 20 seconds" they don't want to saddle subcap drone boats with this sort of timer and want to focus the scoop/relaunch deterrent on a specific class of drones on a certain class of ships without creating Yet Another God Damn Exception Case
using scan res to affect the change on the specific drones in question solves the issue with almost no collateral damage to other parts of eve |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1023
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 18:12:02 -
[240] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Or you just make Abandon/Scoop/Return to drone bay an overriding command that functions like "reloading" on other weapons platforms. Once you click abandon/scoop/return to drone bay you are locked out of issuing a command to your drones for 20 seconds.
*Return and Orbit will not start this timer.
Poof now you only have 1 timer to track, and it applied to all drones within that ship. No more spooky lag than reloading turrets cause.
and probably not that much to code...**** they managed to make 3 different "jump to beacon options" give everyone 2 timers im sure they can take 3 inputs and generate one timer.
Maybe they can't, but they should.
Here is even a message you can display
"The Drone Bay will be cleared in approximately 20 seconds" they don't want to saddle subcap drone boats with this sort of timer and want to focus the scoop/relaunch deterrent on a specific class of drones on a certain class of ships without creating Yet Another God Damn Exception Case using scan res to affect the change on the specific drones in question solves the issue with almost no collateral damage to other parts of eve
Why not? Also where did CCP say this, or are you just assuming this? Sure you aren't going to get the DPS benefit, but since this change is also attempting to nip server load in the bud, 1000 dudes deploying and scooping drones in subcaps repeatedly is going to also cause a lot of server load.
Not to mention it still leaves my ECM drones capable of being scooped and deployed until I get a jam cycle. |
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