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Jerghul
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
6
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Posted - 2016.01.12 12:55:43 -
[5551] - Quote
You are not mistaken, but isk does not accumulate in corporations. Net revenue is passed on to players for various purposes that include limiting the need for real life money to fund multiple accounts.
" We have been doing a lot of challenging old assumptions of late, and often with delightful results. Just because something is doesn't mean it should be..."
-Team Game Of Drones (Dec 2015)
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4324
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Posted - 2016.01.12 15:05:13 -
[5552] - Quote
Jerghul wrote:Teckos I would personally chose to jump freighter things to market. But you can fly them in any straw man that rocks your boat.
Your backtracking is duly noted.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15713
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Posted - 2016.01.12 15:07:12 -
[5553] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Jerghul wrote:Teckos I would personally chose to jump freighter things to market. But you can fly them in any straw man that rocks your boat.
Your backtracking is duly noted.
And understandable. He's taken so many different and contradictory positions in this thread, he would need some pretty serious project management software to keep track of them all.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4324
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Posted - 2016.01.12 15:11:48 -
[5554] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Jerghul wrote: Brokk You are still not impacting at all on PI or moon goo, even with two a month. Optimizing players are immune to interdiction.
To impact hostile moongoo, you'd have to shoot the tower.
Or a siphon....but look in either case not really a damn thing to do with AFK cloaking.
However, I bet people who do drop siphons do so with...wait...wait....just a bit longer....cloaking ships.
Yes, I'm looking at you Xcom and Jerghul.
Let us, by all means, nerf cloaks so that siphons are actually harder to drop.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4324
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Posted - 2016.01.12 15:17:38 -
[5555] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Xcom wrote: I don't think cloaked ships are to overpowered with there individual firepower. Its that you can bring more then one ship to the fight, choose when to drop that curtain at there leisure and at the point of engagement know they will win. That is the power cloaks hold.
I agree with you on that one. I'm not opposed to a cyno lighting delay on decloak. Be warned though, that most recons and strategic cruisers will still be able to deal with it... but at least you'd have a fighting chance. Marauders in bastion would obsiously still be royally screwed, as would Skiffs and the like. But yeah, sure. The speed with which a cyno can be deployed is open to debate as far as I'm concerned.
You know for years (yes, literally years) people have whined about cloaks and cynos. Finally, cynos get nerfed pretty hard with jump range limitations and fatigue. Yet here we are with people still wanting just one more nerf. Then things will be balanced.
Personally, if I could tell the Devs one thing on this topic, and they'd implement it, it would be: Give ships using a covert cyno/jump portal the same fatigue reduction as an industrial.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4324
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Posted - 2016.01.12 15:31:17 -
[5556] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:I always thought the moongoo from towers goes to the corp/alliance. For upkeep, fees, SRP and such.
Haven't heard many cases where the moongoo goes to members; whereas the income from PI or ratting does end up in their personal wallets.
Could be mistaken though....
You are generally correct. If it is a money moon it will be an alliance level asset. The reason for this is that the alliance/coalition is what typically took possession of the moon to begin with. There are low end moons that the alliance may not care about, but the moon goo from those is so cheap it is not worth setting up a mining tower just for that.
The exception is a reaction tower(s). An individual player can set one (or more) of these up, although they may have to pay for the moon on which they anchor it (i.e. the alliance might consider the moon an alliance resource, after all they could anchor a POS there to do stuff too). The alliance might even have a program so the player can buy moon goo from the alliance and even buy the finished moon goo.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
612
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Posted - 2016.01.12 16:19:36 -
[5557] - Quote
Quote:27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
Several posts that were derailing the conversation and those quoting them have been removed.
ISD Fractal
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Jerghul
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
6
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Posted - 2016.01.12 16:33:54 -
[5558] - Quote
Teckos No backtracking, buddy. Though I understand it is easy for you to misunderstand things and I certainly get you need to take any victories your mind can manufacture :).
Karous We have established there are many final solutions to the established multiple account entitlement that is afk cloaky camping question.
" We have been doing a lot of challenging old assumptions of late, and often with delightful results. Just because something is doesn't mean it should be..."
-Team Game Of Drones (Dec 2015)
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15719
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Posted - 2016.01.12 17:09:44 -
[5559] - Quote
Jerghul wrote: Karous We have established there are many final solutions to the established multiple account entitlement that is afk cloaky camping question.
The only thing we've established is that Bush the Elder was right, and winners don't use drugs.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Mag's
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
20968
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Posted - 2016.01.12 17:14:49 -
[5560] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Jerghul wrote:Teckos I would personally chose to jump freighter things to market. But you can fly them in any straw man that rocks your boat.
Your backtracking is duly noted. And understandable. He's taken so many different and contradictory positions in this thread, he would need some pretty serious project management software to keep track of them all. I thought it was a crazy golf game, until I realised the holes were simply remnants of all the goal posts he's moved.
Personally, I'd like to hear more regarding AFKing and global warming. The devil is in the detail.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Jerghul
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
6
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Posted - 2016.01.12 17:28:07 -
[5561] - Quote
Mags I provide a regular synopsis on my remarkably consistent position. And yah, I get that you don't get social responsibility and global stewardship.
Want a "my PC is nuclear powered" sticker?
Karous I liked your post. You seemed to need a hug.
" We have been doing a lot of challenging old assumptions of late, and often with delightful results. Just because something is doesn't mean it should be..."
-Team Game Of Drones (Dec 2015)
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Wander Prian
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
180
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Posted - 2016.01.12 17:36:11 -
[5562] - Quote
Real life has absolutely zero to do with in-game balance. |
Jerghul
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
6
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Posted - 2016.01.12 18:15:31 -
[5563] - Quote
Lucky then that this thread is about afk cloaky camping. Feel free to create an in-game balance thread any time you like.
Of course hardware requirements are relevant to the topic we are discussing. I don't see "multiple screens and computers are recommended" over in Steam. Which is borderline unethical advertising given that they are recommended if you want to have a proper and widespread edge for afk cloaky camping.
" We have been doing a lot of challenging old assumptions of late, and often with delightful results. Just because something is doesn't mean it should be..."
-Team Game Of Drones (Dec 2015)
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4335
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Posted - 2016.01.12 18:25:59 -
[5564] - Quote
Jerghul wrote:Teckos No backtracking, buddy. Though I understand it is easy for you to misunderstand things and I certainly get you need to take any victories your mind can manufacture :).
Heh, that's funny. You assert that the use of blockade runners are ubiquitous in moon goo related processes and when I actually ask you how much ferrogel a reaction tower would produce you not only donGÇÖt answer but confirm my point that in moving stuff to market one would want to use a jump freighter.
So, can you answer the question? I donGÇÖt think you can. Here, let me ask it again. In the course of a single week how many units of ferrogel would your reaction POS produce? Second question, how many trips in a viator fit for max cargo space would you have to make to get said ferrogel from the POS to the station?
Here is a major hint, 1 week has 168 hours in it.
After this, weGÇÖll look at fueling the POS and moving the raw materials from station to the POS.
In the end this will demonstrate why one would not want to use a blockade runner even if it has a covert ops cloak. Because youGÇÖd actually be increasing your risk by warping back and forth between the station and the POS so many times. All it would take to lose tens if not hundreds of millions of ISK in moon goo/fuel blocks, not to mention the blockade runner is a few seconds inattention and a dictor with a good bubble. Instead you use that awesome cloaking ship known as a freighter when working in a given system.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4335
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Posted - 2016.01.12 18:27:42 -
[5565] - Quote
Jerghul wrote:Mags I provide a regular synopsis on my remarkably consistent position. And yah, I get that you don't get social responsibility and global stewardship.
Want a "my PC is nuclear powered" sticker?
Karous I liked your post. You seemed to need a hug.
I know this will likely get zapped, but what the heck...
From the perspective of global warming nuke plants are actually very, very low emissions. They do NOT burn fossil fuels.
Can you get anything right?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Jerghul
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
6
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Posted - 2016.01.12 18:29:17 -
[5566] - Quote
Fukoshima Joe Yah, those two last posts of yours should probably be zapped.
Edit Though I hope not. Threemile island Stan, Chernobyl Bill...I could have a lot of fun with that.
" We have been doing a lot of challenging old assumptions of late, and often with delightful results. Just because something is doesn't mean it should be..."
-Team Game Of Drones (Dec 2015)
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4338
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Posted - 2016.01.12 18:32:56 -
[5567] - Quote
Got an answer yet Jerghul? How much ferrogel?
Do you need me to help you? I don't mind...that's just the kind of guy I am, helping those less fortunate than myself.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Mag's
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
20970
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Posted - 2016.01.12 18:35:24 -
[5568] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Got an answer yet Jerghul? How much ferrogel?
Do you need me to help you? I don't mind...that's just the kind of guy I am, helping those less fortunate than myself. 42
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Jerghul
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
6
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Posted - 2016.01.12 18:48:52 -
[5569] - Quote
Tekos You get that discussing how much ferrogel is produced is almost as off topic as other off topic things you drag into this thread like something a cat brings home, right?
Collecting moon goo is best done in a blockade runner. Anyone that knows anything knows this.
Its pretty banal stuff.
" We have been doing a lot of challenging old assumptions of late, and often with delightful results. Just because something is doesn't mean it should be..."
-Team Game Of Drones (Dec 2015)
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ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
631
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Posted - 2016.01.12 19:03:50 -
[5570] - Quote
ISD Fractal wrote:Quote:27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster. Several posts that were derailing the conversation and those quoting them have been removed.
This time, thread locked for 4 hours to let the repeat offenders cool their jets. Continued infractions may result in further action being taken.
ISD Fractal
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4338
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Posted - 2016.01.12 23:27:24 -
[5571] - Quote
Jerghul wrote:Teckos No backtracking, buddy. Though I understand it is easy for you to misunderstand things and I certainly get you need to take any victories your mind can manufacture :).
I note you still haven't answered the questions.
I'm guessing you either canGÇÖt answer or simply wonGÇÖt. The answer is 67,200 units of ferrogel which will clock in at 1m^3/unit so youGÇÖll need to make 6 trips in that blockade runner.
This is why people do not use blockade runners for doing reaction farms or moon mining. You use a JF or a freighter if your POS are all in 1 system. So moon goo is not a cloaking issue.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4338
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Posted - 2016.01.12 23:37:00 -
[5572] - Quote
Xcom wrote: The thing is that cloaked ships do break the game when they engage. Every single game I can think of have a counter to the cloaky. Except for eve that is. Its the fact that they can choose to engage when you are at your most vulnerable with accurate intel and come out unscathed as thats the power they have.
Well it would be stupid to engage when you are at your strongestGǪso your complaint is that players are playing smart? Cloaks allow for asymmetrical warfare. A small, smart, and correctly equipped force can be a PITA for a larger entity. That is precisely the point. I see this complaint as one of, GÇ£I donGÇÖt like it that my opponent might attack me when I am least prepared.GÇ¥ No, that is the best time to attack.
As for intelGǪwell now we are back to local again. Funny how the pro-cloaking side is told time and again that it is off topic, not relevant, etcGǪ.until it works for the anti-cloaking side at which point it comes back up. Maybe you guys should huddle up and let us know which is it and actuallyGǪyou know, stick with whatever you say instead of this wishy-washy flip-flopping.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Jerghul
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
6
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Posted - 2016.01.12 23:48:59 -
[5573] - Quote
Teckos I would respond in length to the hilarious thought of taking freighters on null sec moon goo roams. But alas, that would be almost as hopelessly off-topic as your next to last post. Let it simply be noted that I was not speaking about the transportation of final product which is generally be done in an outpost system for easy station access. You can do the crazily dangerous mad dash* from station to POS forcefield in anything you like. But nice straw man. Again.
*Note that this is not irony (which is the same as goldy and bronzy except made out of iron). It is that other thing.
" We have been doing a lot of challenging old assumptions of late, and often with delightful results. Just because something is doesn't mean it should be..."
-Team Game Of Drones (Dec 2015)
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Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1029
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Posted - 2016.01.13 08:16:24 -
[5574] - Quote
What is talking about is fully at the keyboard cloaked ships. You know, nothing to do with the topic. He just hates getting ganked.
D-scan invisibility is not limited to cloaks so that point is completely irrelevant. 100% |
Jerghul
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
6
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Posted - 2016.01.13 09:45:47 -
[5575] - Quote
Morrigan Xcom is talking about afk cloaked ships where players might be ATK at least several times a week you mean. The implicit threat/pretty big psychological effect afk cloaky camping has depends on the pilot being ATK several times a week and preferably once a day after downtime.
AFK cloaky camping's implicit threat decreases if dscan could only be done uncloaked. A cautious pilot would catch the decloaked dscanning ship on dscan. The alternative would be the time consuming effort of inspecting anons individually while cloaked. Which in turn would decrease the frequency of afk cloaky campers becoming ATK and thus reduce the implicit threat afk cloaky camping represents.
" We have been doing a lot of challenging old assumptions of late, and often with delightful results. Just because something is doesn't mean it should be..."
-Team Game Of Drones (Dec 2015)
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Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1030
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Posted - 2016.01.13 09:53:47 -
[5576] - Quote
No, I don't. He is on record in this thread as just disliking ALL cloaks no matter the use. It's not the thread for that.
Taking dscan off cloaked hulls is a blanket and massive nerf to scouting. It's a bad idea to solve a problem that exists in players minds only. There is no reason to gut scouting and massively buff gate camps because people won't protect themselves in one area of space correctly. |
Jerghul
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
6
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Posted - 2016.01.13 10:22:31 -
[5577] - Quote
Morrigan Any imaginary nerf to scouts is all in the players' minds. There is for example no problem speed tanking while dscanning. It merely is an issue for those not wanting to appear on dscan while dscanning. Ie afk cloaky campers that do not want it known they are on their twice weekly ATK "perhaps I will pvp, perhaps I will not, it all depends on what it feels like in my soft and delicate typing fingers"
" We have been doing a lot of challenging old assumptions of late, and often with delightful results. Just because something is doesn't mean it should be..."
-Team Game Of Drones (Dec 2015)
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Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1032
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Posted - 2016.01.13 10:52:43 -
[5578] - Quote
No, it is not. It's a substantial gate camp buff. |
Xcom
Quantum Vortex Battalion
38
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Posted - 2016.01.13 11:15:53 -
[5579] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Xcom wrote: The thing is that cloaked ships do break the game when they engage. Every single game I can think of have a counter to the cloaky. Except for eve that is. Its the fact that they can choose to engage when you are at your most vulnerable with accurate intel and come out unscathed as thats the power they have.
Well it would be stupid to engage when you are at your strongestGǪso your complaint is that players are playing smart? Cloaks allow for asymmetrical warfare. A small, smart, and correctly equipped force can be a PITA for a larger entity. That is precisely the point. I see this complaint as one of, GÇ£I donGÇÖt like it that my opponent might attack me when I am least prepared.GÇ¥ No, that is the best time to attack. As for intelGǪwell now we are back to local again. Funny how the pro-cloaking side is told time and again that it is off topic, not relevant, etcGǪ.until it works for the anti-cloaking side at which point it comes back up. Maybe you guys should huddle up and let us know which is it and actuallyGǪyou know, stick with whatever you say instead of this wishy-washy flip-flopping. I'm glad you have finally caught up. That is the exact problem with cloaking. Its tactics backed by game mechanics and not player intelligence. Such a game mechanic should then have a counter, it doesn't. Ergo the need for one.
And leave the personal agendas guesses and childish name calling behind. Makes you sound like a little teenage girl. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1032
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Posted - 2016.01.13 11:30:32 -
[5580] - Quote
If it doesn't have a counter, why do all these BLOPS keep dying?
Why are ships with cloaks fitted littering the killboards? |
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