Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 200 300 .. 343 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
233
|
Posted - 2015.01.09 22:27:29 -
[31] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Someone at CCP/CSM/ISD said it best (and I'm paraphrasing here because I can't for the life of me find the link): "Show me someone who has been genuinely harmed by AFK cloaking, and I'll show you someone who has no business playing EvE."
AFK cloaking doesn't hurt anyone. It never has, and it never will. All it does is shatter the illusion of safety presented by a local list that is friendly. Any impact that shattered illusion has on someone's activities is entirely their choice, not the person cloaking.
Until someone comes up with a bona fide, rational example of AFK cloaking actually harming another player, I say it should be left as-is.
Except that the afk cloaker enjoys 100% safetey while he 'disrupts the illusion of safety.' This argument that AFK cloaking doesn't hurt anyone is just a distraction from the fact that AFK campers really don't have to risk anything to hole up in a system, which shouldn't be the case. Sit cloaked up at a safe long enough and there should be a reasonable chance that someone can somehow find you- even if it is a difficult thing to do.
As far as I'm concerned this is the only real argument to be had here. Whining about not being completely safe mining or ratting in null, and lazy gankers looking for free kills or abolishing local is really starting to get old. This thread discussion doesn't change it at all and the communitie's line is too hard to have any kind of meaningful discussion about it here. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2125
|
Posted - 2015.01.09 23:32:09 -
[32] - Quote
Can we get the AFK Cloaking Collection Thread linked in the OP? Locked but not forgotten.
it will mean people can read the existing ideas before they start suggesting the EXACT SAME IDEAS and spamming up this thread (which has already started to happen).
then perma-ban those that propose the EXACT SAME IDEAS.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
|
GeeBee
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
70
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 01:43:54 -
[33] - Quote
AFK Cloaking has been a broken mechanic in K-Space for years due to cyno's. The ability for a character to sit cloaked afk for hours/days/years then hot drop someone at a time of their choosing or entirely shut down a system is broken. It promotes stagnant gameplay on both the aggressor and the defender in most cases since the only way to get them to leave the system is to also leave the system and not utilize it. While there is the ability and potential to bait and kill the cloaker when he does do something it means having an equal or larger number of people constantly on standby and performing the act while the AFK cloaker is infact not AFK, largely leaving these avenues of gameplay as a waste of time. The best counter is to keep eyes on the staging system of whoever is cloaky camping, when they have activity raising the alarm while they prepare to drop either form a counter-drop.
The metagaming of cloaky camping is also highly effective when combined with a spy, this further makes the cloaky camping meta even more one sided towards the aggressor.
The only major indirect change to afk cloaking has been the atrocity of force projection changes which will effectively limit you to 1 Hot drop per ~20min at minimum assuming you can safely fly your cloakys back to a black ops ship to reload or ~45min if you bridge yourself back.
As for any potential changes to afk cloaky camping there's been a lot of discussion over the years on how to balance it, the best / simplest theory i've heard is to have the covert ops cloaking cloaking device burn liquid ozone at a small consumption rate to reduce the loiter time to 8-12 hours while burning their reserve fuel for cyno's, But again the force projection changes have already taken a lot of the wind out of the sails of the AFK cloaking meta. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
187
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 02:19:41 -
[34] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Someone at CCP/CSM/ISD said it best (and I'm paraphrasing here because I can't for the life of me find the link): "Show me someone who has been genuinely harmed by AFK cloaking, and I'll show you someone who has no business playing EvE."
AFK cloaking doesn't hurt anyone. It never has, and it never will. All it does is shatter the illusion of safety presented by a local list that is friendly. Any impact that shattered illusion has on someone's activities is entirely their choice, not the person cloaking.
Until someone comes up with a bona fide, rational example of AFK cloaking actually harming another player, I say it should be left as-is.
TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending
TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
|
Esmanpir
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
20
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 03:16:01 -
[35] - Quote
Aamina wrote:All said so far is true, local being best intel tool there is, however I would agree on some mechanic that forces players that they can't be cloaked for more then one or two hours at given time.
Maybe slow cap drain or something. Maybe cloaking device takes slow heat damage and you have to drop cloak periodically to rep it back up (you could do this while in warp). Maybe new mechanic where cloak builds up some sort of fatigue and while not running it dissipates at rate that all would be gone in 2-5 minutes and build up would be random between 30-120 minutes to full value where your ship drops cloak automatically
General idea is remove AFK game styles which I support, other then that I don't have problems with AFK cloakers, my playstyle is depended on waiting at blops till our hunter (who doesn't even have a cloak) finds a juicy target that we then drop on, AFK cloakers are as much issue for us as docked up people are.
I agree that its about removing AFK game styles. If you want to be AFK you should be in a POS or station, or susceptible to getting attacked. Maybe introduce a fuel to the cloak mechanics. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
632
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 03:18:17 -
[36] - Quote
ISD LackOfFaith, a perfect name for this topic...
Page two, as close to the ground floor as I'll ever get!
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
|
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
632
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 03:21:52 -
[37] - Quote
Thelonious Blake wrote:And honestly I have yet to see a member of distinguished wormhole group/corporation to moan about cloaking mechanics. And this speaks alot. Prove me wrong with a link.
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. being vocal about AFK cloaking doesn't mean the mechanic is broken. Not in the current state of the game, at least by my opinion.
Must... resist... quagmire...
Fine. WHs don't compain about AFK cloaking because they control their geography. They can close WHs, you can't close stargates in nullsec.
Thus, WHs =/= nullsec. Let's get that point in EARLY.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
|
Esmanpir
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
20
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 03:27:34 -
[38] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:An AFK player cannot hurt you. By definition. The only damage he does is in the minds of the people who complain about it. What they want is not balance.
What they want is to have their uncertainty removed, so they can carebear in complete safety.
The answer to that should always be no. Cloaking devices and covert ops ships should remain unchanged so long as local chat remains an instant, 100% reliable source of intelligence.
I think this myth has been thoroughly busted (see Bullet Therapist Posted: 2015.01.09 22:27 in this thread as an example) and is just used to misdirect the conversation. Indefinite cloaking is about being AFK and not having any risk to be holed up in the system.
Also, trying to tie indefinite cloaking to local chat is apples and oranges. Whether local should be changed or not, doesn't negate the immunity the cloaker has to sit indefinitely without threat in a hostile environment. Yes, both provide intel, but if you really wanted intel you could cycle your alliance members through the system each taking turns cloaking (or your alts) to offset whatever mechanic is put in place to limit indefinite cloaking. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1052
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 04:12:23 -
[39] - Quote
Here is the thing.
If I am cloaked and not saying anything. How do you know I am AFK? Just because I am in local all day?
Maybe I am getting pings all over your system? Maybe i am scanning moons? Or for WHs?
There is a lot I can be doing, and in hostile space that is your only afforded protection and why the cov ops and recon lines exist.
You simply assume I am cloaked all day. Maybe I am cloaked. Maybe I am making a ping in that asteroid belt you always go to, or am sitting inside that next DED site you warp to.
Or maybe I am AFK. The only reason you know I am there is because of local chat. Which is actually quite a large amount of intel.
I think Local should function on a timer, where every 10 minutes the local list will refresh. How you get seen in local Enter a system Talk
How you get off local list Don't talk in local for 10 minutes. Don't leave and re-enter system
This gives someone the chance to see that a person entered local, but after 10 minutes that person may or may not still be there without them knowing.
The whole purpose of a cloak is to be undetected, the fact you even know I am in your system is absurd in its own right. considering the heaping piles of free intel it gives.
My name My corp Alliance Who I fly with What I fly Do I blops? Other Drops?
That is a lot of free intel, all i get is a cloak.
|
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
16
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 05:37:21 -
[40] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Someone at CCP/CSM/ISD said it best (and I'm paraphrasing here because I can't for the life of me find the link): "Show me someone who has been genuinely harmed by AFK cloaking, and I'll show you someone who has no business playing EvE."
This is really all that needs to be said on the matter. |
|
Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
3
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 06:33:20 -
[41] - Quote
i would say it would be more logical if the local works like this :
Entering the System via Gate = Gate Broadcasting you are here Undock = Station Broadcasting you are here
WH and Cyno = nope you are not in local until someone will find you
Possible but not sure if its to OP (it counts if you are scanned down and or are spottet via d scan)
If you logout you vanish from local if you log in your status from before counts
Possible a new deploy able that scans for ships and broadcasting to the local withing 5 AU Would give the option to make a Network within the system if you find a wh mark it with the unit i would say it would use Fuel |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
645
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 06:54:54 -
[42] - Quote
Remove local or delay it. Afk cloaking fixed. Forever!
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
216
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 07:10:42 -
[43] - Quote
Cloaks should cycle like a repper or a weapon with a 5-minute cycle.
You can still use cloaking as an intel tool. Getting rid of the unlimited cloak duration does not impede intel. Intel can't be collected while a person is AFK anyway. All arguments that cloaky local intel depends on being able to AFK cloak are false.
AFK cloaking is primarily an interdiction tool. Want to make someone dock up? Put a cloaky neut in system.
Your ability to hot drop should be related to the number of actively playing scouts you have. Not one dude with 50 accounts checking things out here and there.
I can't believe people complain about AFK mining and tolerate AFK cloaking.
AFK cloaking needs to go away. It actually destroys content by keeping a persistent threat of a threat that isn't really a threat. So people stay docked up to avoid fleets that won't come because the scout is AFK. Reducing AFK clockers will embolden miners and ratters and make them vulnerable to real scouts who are at the keyboard playing Eve.
AFK cloaking reduces fights and destroys content. It results in station spinning. Get rid of it. Cloaks should be active modules with 5-minute cycles. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14439
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 07:29:19 -
[44] - Quote
A bin for all of the terrible ideas on afk cloaking. ISD are getting lazy
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14439
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 07:33:17 -
[45] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Thelonious Blake wrote:And honestly I have yet to see a member of distinguished wormhole group/corporation to moan about cloaking mechanics. And this speaks alot. Prove me wrong with a link.
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. being vocal about AFK cloaking doesn't mean the mechanic is broken. Not in the current state of the game, at least by my opinion. Must... resist... quagmire... Fine. WHs don't compain about AFK cloaking because they control their geography. They can close WHs, you can't close stargates in nullsec. Thus, WHs =/= nullsec. Let's get that point in EARLY.
Nope, its because they have no idea the AFK cloaker is there.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Mag's
the united
18613
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 07:42:15 -
[46] - Quote
Ask yourself one question.
What mechanic are they using to interact with you, whilst they are AFK?
It's not cloaking, or being able to remain so indefinitely that is the issue. It's the reliance people have in instant intel.
The fact that you can AFK without a cloak and gain the same psychological effects, should speak volumes here.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
3
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 07:54:24 -
[47] - Quote
can anyone stop the loop thats says Local is the problem not that that all cloakers on a safe are 100% safe |
Mag's
the united
18613
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 08:01:18 -
[48] - Quote
Gabriel Elarik wrote:can anyone stop the loop thats says Local is the problem not that that all cloakers on a safe are 100% safe And can anyone point out that whilst the cloakers are supposedly 100% safe at their safe spot, you are 100% safe from them?
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
3
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 08:12:37 -
[49] - Quote
the point is the cloaker is in Hostile space and 100% safe nothing should be 100% safe while ingame
and anyone that plays eve should know that after all its a golden rule in eve nothing is safe
i dont care that he cant harm me but i cant harm him while he is sitting in space and getting intel on us we cant do anything to prevent that and intel has more value than some isk
No Risk / Huge Gain do you see my point |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14440
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 08:17:44 -
[50] - Quote
Gabriel Elarik wrote:the point is the cloaker is in Hostile space and 100% safe nothing should be 100% safe while ingame
and anyone that plays eve should know that after all its a golden rule in eve nothing is safe
i dont care that he cant harm me but i cant harm him while he is sitting in space and getting intel on us we cant do anything to prevent that and intel has more value than some isk
No Risk / Huge Gain do you see my point
I demand everyone AFK in a station should be forced to undock so I can kill them.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
|
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
234
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 08:35:22 -
[51] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Gabriel Elarik wrote:the point is the cloaker is in Hostile space and 100% safe nothing should be 100% safe while ingame
and anyone that plays eve should know that after all its a golden rule in eve nothing is safe
i dont care that he cant harm me but i cant harm him while he is sitting in space and getting intel on us we cant do anything to prevent that and intel has more value than some isk
No Risk / Huge Gain do you see my point I demand everyone AFK in a station should be forced to undock so I can kill them.
Stations can be flipped and station services can be offlined. The loss of a station can be devastating for a corporation or alliance. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14440
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 08:44:12 -
[52] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:baltec1 wrote:Gabriel Elarik wrote:the point is the cloaker is in Hostile space and 100% safe nothing should be 100% safe while ingame
and anyone that plays eve should know that after all its a golden rule in eve nothing is safe
i dont care that he cant harm me but i cant harm him while he is sitting in space and getting intel on us we cant do anything to prevent that and intel has more value than some isk
No Risk / Huge Gain do you see my point I demand everyone AFK in a station should be forced to undock so I can kill them. Stations can be flipped and station services can be offlined. The loss of a station can be devastating for a corporation or alliance.
Now try that with a Guristas station or Jita 4-4.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Mag's
the united
18614
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 08:52:42 -
[53] - Quote
Gabriel Elarik wrote:the point is the cloaker is in Hostile space and 100% safe nothing should be 100% safe while ingame
and anyone that plays eve should know that after all its a golden rule in eve nothing is safe
i dont care that he cant harm me but i cant harm him while he is sitting in space and getting intel on us we cant do anything to prevent that and intel has more value than some isk
No Risk / Huge Gain do you see my point He has every right to sit in that space and gain intel. But that wasn't your line. You wanted us to think the safe aspect only went one way, it's plainly obvious it's a two way street.
No one should be 100% safe in game? OK so like Baltic said, let's have a means to undock you from the station. Let's go with your logic. Or does your logic only work when you want it too?
By the way, you can't prevent intel gathering, but you can limit what they gather. Welcome to Eve, an MMO with more than your friends playing.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
3
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 09:09:37 -
[54] - Quote
as statet above
Stations can be flipped and station services can be offlined. The loss of a station can be devastating for a corporation or alliance.
they dont need to interact to gather intel sitting near the station looking what ships undock how many targets (players) are online at specific times and what ships are used for pve and pvp evtl a corp has a weekly mining op and after 2 weeks he noticed that they do the mining op every Friday etc etc |
FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
153
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 09:10:01 -
[55] - Quote
Can somone remind me how i report a thread for redundancy?
The irony would be delishious to me... |
Mag's
the united
18615
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 09:14:35 -
[56] - Quote
Gabriel Elarik wrote:as statet above
Stations can be flipped and station services can be offlined. The loss of a station can be devastating for a corporation or alliance.
they dont need to interact to gather intel sitting near the station looking what ships undock how many targets (players) are online at specific times and what ships are used for pve and pvp evtl a corp has a weekly mining op and after 2 weeks he noticed that they do the mining op every Friday etc etc Even when stations are flipped, they don't need to leave them.
Now to the answer you gave. Ahh but you see they are interacting with you. How else would you know they are there? So I'll ask again.
What mechanic are they using to interact with you, whilst they are AFK?
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14444
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 09:16:10 -
[57] - Quote
Gabriel Elarik wrote:as statet above
Stations can be flipped and station services can be offlined. The loss of a station can be devastating for a corporation or alliance.
they dont need to interact to gather intel sitting near the station looking what ships undock how many targets (players) are online at specific times and what ships are used for pve and pvp evtl a corp has a weekly mining op and after 2 weeks he noticed that they do the mining op every Friday etc etc
Once more I ask, how do you flip the two stations in 6NJ8-V.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Mag's
the united
18620
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 09:16:12 -
[58] - Quote
FireFrenzy wrote:Can somone remind me how i report a thread for redundancy?
The irony would be delishious to me... The little flag on the OP and I already have. This whole thread is quite frankly, ridiculously pointless.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
3
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 09:22:07 -
[59] - Quote
as long as they can see with d scan probes or visual they interact with the world they gather intel and nobody can do anything about it players sitting in stations they can be flipped and i by all means i had the joy to come back after a week and sitting in hostile space with no means to move my stuff out thats one of the risk players have while sitting in stations while cloakys have no risk and intel and if its that thats hinders improvement by all means make a thread and say what mechanic would be ok i have no problems with that |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14444
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 09:24:28 -
[60] - Quote
Gabriel Elarik wrote:as long as they can see with d scan probes or visual they interact with the world they gather intel and nobody can do anything about it players sitting in stations they can be flipped and i by all means i had the joy to come back after a week and sitting in hostile space with no means to move my stuff out thats one of the risk players have while sitting in stations while cloakys have no risk and intel and if its that thats hinders improvement by all means make a thread and say what mechanic would be ok i have no problems with that
For the third time I ask, how do you flip NPC stations.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 200 300 .. 343 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |