Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 200 300 .. 343 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
269
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 22:25:02 -
[6151] - Quote
We are. It's called hotdropping, logoff trap, pinch manoevres, combat links, deadspace fitted roflstomp Tengus ..... you name it, we've seen it. Quite exciting indeed. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4843
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 22:29:47 -
[6152] - Quote
Daniel Ornulf wrote:yeah giving it a name suddenly makes it perfectly OK. damn, we should've given a name to dropping cans around a stargate, then it wouldn't have been considered an exploit...
It is not an exploit so long as it is not causing lag.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Daniel Ornulf
Grae Universe Enterprise EVIAN NATION
11
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 22:31:18 -
[6153] - Quote
Quote:Sooo....let me make sure I get this right. You want to be in NS and not have to be paying attention? Would like CCP to add a feature where you can turn off the gates?
this is called a "straw-man argument". you quote something the other guy never said and attack this weakened statement. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4843
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 22:37:12 -
[6154] - Quote
Daniel Ornulf wrote:Quote:Sooo....let me make sure I get this right. You want to be in NS and not have to be paying attention? Would like CCP to add a feature where you can turn off the gates? this is called a "straw-man argument". you quote something the other guy never said and attack this weakened statement.
No, it's called a question with a heavy dose of sarcasm.
Yes, if you are going to be in NS ratting, mining, etc. you should be on your toes. Ready for things to go sideways. And one response is to change your behavior to shift things to your advantage. Ratting as a group would accomplish this. Let me be very specific:
1. If the guy is truly AFK...no problem. He won't be lighting a cyno. Ever. Nobody AFK has ever lit a cyno.
2. If he is not AFK then your group is much less likely to be attacked when you are in a group. Granted you might have 10 guys and they have 20, but hey...nobody said the game was supposed to be safe. Further, if he is ATK and you are in a group and it is too much for his buddies he will do one of the following:
A. Log off in system--yay, go do what you want. B. Leave system--yay go do what you want. C. Go AFK in system--yay he can't light a cyno, keep ratting.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Mark Letuse
Heavy Industries Biotechnic Yelm Experiment DRONE WALKERS
1
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 22:42:26 -
[6155] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Daniel Ornulf wrote:Quote:Sooo....let me make sure I get this right. You want to be in NS and not have to be paying attention? Would like CCP to add a feature where you can turn off the gates? this is called a "straw-man argument". you quote something the other guy never said and attack this weakened statement. No, it's called a question with a heavy dose of sarcasm. Yes, if you are going to be in NS ratting, mining, etc. you should be on your toes. Ready for things to go sideways. And one response is to change your behavior to shift things to your advantage. Ratting as a group would accomplish this. Let me be very specific: 1. If the guy is truly AFK...no problem. He won't be lighting a cyno. Ever. Nobody AFK has ever lit a cyno. 2. If he is not AFK then your group is much less likely to be attacked when you are in a group. Granted you might have 10 guys and they have 20, but hey...nobody said the game was supposed to be safe. Further, if he is ATK and you are in a group and it is too much for his buddies he will do one of the following: A. Log off in system--yay, go do what you want. B. Leave system--yay go do what you want. C. Go AFK in system--yay he can't light a cyno, keep ratting.
and what if the AFK camper -dude is in the next 20-30 systems, also cloaked 24/7=? every day, week after week? |
Daniel Ornulf
Grae Universe Enterprise EVIAN NATION
11
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 23:33:07 -
[6156] - Quote
okay so why do you think people leave their cloaked char online for the entire day, knowing they'll only play for a small amount?
it's an honest question |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4843
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 00:00:59 -
[6157] - Quote
Daniel Ornulf wrote:okay so why do you think people leave their cloaked char online for the entire day, knowing they'll only play for a small amount? he obviously can't kill anyone while he's afk, so why leave the PC running all day long?
it's an honest question
Because alot of people just dock up and don't try other strategies. It does work.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4843
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 00:01:53 -
[6158] - Quote
Mark Letuse wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Daniel Ornulf wrote:Quote:Sooo....let me make sure I get this right. You want to be in NS and not have to be paying attention? Would like CCP to add a feature where you can turn off the gates? this is called a "straw-man argument". you quote something the other guy never said and attack this weakened statement. No, it's called a question with a heavy dose of sarcasm. Yes, if you are going to be in NS ratting, mining, etc. you should be on your toes. Ready for things to go sideways. And one response is to change your behavior to shift things to your advantage. Ratting as a group would accomplish this. Let me be very specific: 1. If the guy is truly AFK...no problem. He won't be lighting a cyno. Ever. Nobody AFK has ever lit a cyno. 2. If he is not AFK then your group is much less likely to be attacked when you are in a group. Granted you might have 10 guys and they have 20, but hey...nobody said the game was supposed to be safe. Further, if he is ATK and you are in a group and it is too much for his buddies he will do one of the following: A. Log off in system--yay, go do what you want. B. Leave system--yay go do what you want. C. Go AFK in system--yay he can't light a cyno, keep ratting. and what if the AFK camper -dude is in the next 20-30 systems, also cloaked 24/7=? every day, week after week?
Keep fleeting up and doing your ratting that way.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Daniel Ornulf
Grae Universe Enterprise EVIAN NATION
11
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 00:02:44 -
[6159] - Quote
his goal is to make people dock up? I don't understand, how does he hope to kill them if they're docked up? |
Moonacre Parmala
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 04:24:19 -
[6160] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Sheesh. Do you need me to tell you how to make a PB&J next? Please
We brits don't understand why you call jam jelly |
|
Wander Prian
Perkone Caldari State
218
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 10:58:21 -
[6161] - Quote
Daniel Ornulf wrote:his goal is to make people dock up? I don't understand, how does he hope to kill them if they're docked up?
-his goal is to kill people -he can't kill ppl while he's afk (as you explained)
so why stay logged in 24/7?
please explain
what's the name for annoying someone while not gaining anything from it? can't remember the term
Because you put so much value on local telling you is it safe or not and the amount of whining you so when you are docked up and someone is in system. Hell, I've been accused of being a AFK-cloaker after 5 minutes of entering system, just because I was checking the system out.
The amount of tears and whining is what keeps them doing it. This thread keeps people doing it.
Stop treating the situation as a binary safe/unsafe and come up with new tactics. Fleet up, have a plan, check the guys stats from killboards. As long as you keep treating local as a binary security setting, you will have people cloaking up in your system. |
Daniel Ornulf
Grae Universe Enterprise EVIAN NATION
12
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 11:45:52 -
[6162] - Quote
I know this will come as a shock to truesec players but many nullsec areas are kinda poor and don't have enough active content to sustain a ratting fleet that can counter a drop.
anyway, my goal was to get CCP-s opinion not that of people faking ignorance to make their statement.
keep telling yourself you're hardcore for afking. you guys rock!
o7 |
Wander Prian
Perkone Caldari State
218
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 13:05:26 -
[6163] - Quote
I'm not here to defend the AFK-part. Just the cloaking. As a wormhole-pilot, I use cloaks daily to scout the chains and to hunt people. I disagree that the fix for AFK-cloaking is in nerfing cloaks, as they are used everywhere, but the only place where people cry about someone AFK-cloaking is on sov-null. That tells me that cloaks are fine. |
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
191
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 13:24:31 -
[6164] - Quote
Daniel Ornulf wrote:that explains why you have no clue what it's like to be in a standing fleet or what it exactly takes to counter a drop (and why it's not viable against campers).
sorry to burst your bubble, but the scenarios you make up in your head don't work in reality. it's OK, we all do it, it's nothing to be ashamed of, and when you try playing the game yourself you'll realize this.
have a great day!
/sigh. It sounds like you need to join a more competent group. Let me explain it to you. Join a fleet as soon as you log in. Fit a point to your ishtar/snake/etc when ratting, switch to a procurer/skiff when mining, fit a point to that as well. When you are dropped, say in comms (you are on comms, right?) "hey, I need help in xxx system". Your sabre/flycatcher/etc that's on standby (you have one on standby, right? you are in null after all) takes the 20 seconds to get to your system and bubble the blob. 20 seconds later the rest of your standing fleet lands and counters.
Don't claim "it doesn't work in reality" as an excuse for not being organized.
Daniel Ornulf wrote:I know this will come as a shock to truesec players but many nullsec areas are kinda poor and don't have enough active content to sustain a ratting fleet that can counter a drop. reinforce and vulnerability windows exist because eve CCP agrees that "owning" a system isn't about maintaining your full power 24/7 and gluing people to the chair.
anyway, my goal was to get CCP-s opinion not that of people faking ignorance to make their statement.
keep telling yourself you're hardcore for afking. you guys rock!
o7
You do know what raising your index in null means, yeah?
Doesn't "not enough active content" from a null group just mean they didn't put in the effort to develop their pocket? |
Dornier Pfeil
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 16:00:36 -
[6165] - Quote
Daniel Ornulf wrote:Quote:That's the general idea! Exciting, isn't it? oh yeah! let's add a mechanic so the camper has to be on his toes nonstop as well! exciting! Quote:Seriously, all this whining about not being able to engage in casual almost careless play because of guys who are careful and putting for not inconsiderable effort is amazing. LOL effort, casual. we're talking about people who play 10 minutes a day and force a dozen others to glue their eyes on the screen 24/7. are you kidding right now?
Is it possible that Teckos Pech's point is: those hours and days (24/7) you have your eyes glued to local don't have to be unproductive ones? Owning a system means multitasking; slurping up your system's resources while being ready to defend it at the same time? If you don't care to be engaged in resource acquisition (whatever form that takes) and you don't care to defend your system, why don't you just log off? Two can play the AFK game, can't they?
Please note, all of the above are questions, not sarcastic statements. I am genuinely curious to know the answers.
P.S. I call jellies, jellies and jams(or preserves) jams based on whether there is solid fruit involved. How exactly do you delineate them? |
Moonacre Parmala
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 05:03:13 -
[6166] - Quote
Dornier Pfeil wrote:Daniel Ornulf wrote:Quote:That's the general idea! Exciting, isn't it? oh yeah! let's add a mechanic so the camper has to be on his toes nonstop as well! exciting! Quote:Seriously, all this whining about not being able to engage in casual almost careless play because of guys who are careful and putting for not inconsiderable effort is amazing. LOL effort, casual. we're talking about people who play 10 minutes a day and force a dozen others to glue their eyes on the screen 24/7. are you kidding right now? Is it possible that Teckos Pech's point is: those hours and days (24/7) you have your eyes glued to local don't have to be unproductive ones? Owning a system means multitasking; slurping up your system's resources while being ready to defend it at the same time? If you don't care to be engaged in resource acquisition (whatever form that takes) and you don't care to defend your system, why don't you just log off? Two can play the AFK game, can't they? Please note, all of the above are questions, not sarcastic statements. I am genuinely curious to know the answers. P.S. Moonacre Parmala, I call jellies, jellies and jams(or preserves) jams based on whether there is solid fruit involved. How exactly do you delineate them? edited for clarity
Ahh we're jams and preserves......something to do with fruit content.
And back on subject..........(Finally)
I just want there to be a mechanism where an AFK cloaker can be hunted down and routed out. If it takes a while then so be it, It's not like he's going anywhere :P.
And if the person is is actually scouting and hunting or gathering intel, They'll already be on their toes so will be easily able to avoid probes or warp around or get into position away from the danger.
It just seems like there is to much protection for people to Log in then hide and do Fluff all else except keep local on their toes needlessly.
I use cloaks and I do hunt ( mostly NPC's and exploration) I do see the point of recon and cryo bubbles, it's the going AFK in a system for days on end. I do see the point of standing up for fleets and remaining on Comms. BUT.....
If you're willing to sit in pod in a cloaked ship and use said ship then do so.
KNOWINGLY agitating areas of space without risk to yourself by causing increased levels of fleet activity for SOMEONE WHO IS POSING A THREAT BY THEIR POTENTIAL ACTIONS, when they are actually AFK (and by AFK i mean totally AFK and not coming back anytime soon, not just nipped off for a RL break for a few minutes) then you should be able to hunt the b*gg*r down and teach them the ways of watching local, spamming D-scan and stop thinking going AFK and causing problems for others is acceptable.
I don't mean that they suddenly appear gift wrapped with a crate of Quafe in front of your battle ready fleet with big targets painted on their sides. I want to actively work at hunting the git....erm i mean AFK cloaker......(they maybe really nice people........maybe)......... but to undock in EVE is risky, to gate jump and just live in EVE is risky, to annoy inhabitants of systems whilst cloaked and then to LEAVE said character whilst you watch TV, scratch itchy parts of anatomy and ignore said character because you're AFK for protracted periods of time then expect to have a fleet appearing and then sweeping an area looking for you.
Sorry to rant on, well no actually i'm not. Play fair, hunting people is fair because it's counter able. baiting is fair because pirates need to know fear as well. AFK Cloaking should have consequences. everything else in EVE does....................... |
Moonacre Parmala
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 05:16:27 -
[6167] - Quote
Oh and I believe nearly 300 pages is pretty ranttastic on such a small matter of "AFK CloakingGäó: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals" |
Mark Letuse
Heavy Industries Biotechnic Yelm Experiment DRONE WALKERS
1
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 09:01:13 -
[6168] - Quote
Moonacre Parmala wrote:Oh and I believe nearly 300 pages is pretty ranttastic on such a small matter of "AFK CloakingGäó: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals"
Its weird that CCP does not have any comment on this issue yet. |
Moonacre Parmala
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 09:28:23 -
[6169] - Quote
I don't believe it's a quick fix. Cloaking is a damned useful tool, and personally I don't want to see it nerfed. It's the way it's used that's the pain in the butt, that and how to police the way it's used. |
Mark Letuse
Heavy Industries Biotechnic Yelm Experiment DRONE WALKERS
1
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 09:32:50 -
[6170] - Quote
Seems CCP will possibliy dedicate a Observatory Arrays and Gates for that purpose...
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=414191&find=unread |
|
Moonacre Parmala
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 13:47:45 -
[6171] - Quote
I had forgotten about those
my concerns had already been answered.......
+1 like coming your way |
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union Apocalypse Now.
198
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 18:37:51 -
[6172] - Quote
Daniel Ornulf wrote:his goal is to make people dock up? I don't understand, how does he hope to kill them if they're docked up?
-his goal is to kill people -he can't kill ppl while he's afk (as you explained)
so why stay logged in 24/7?
please explain
what's the name for annoying someone while not gaining anything from it? can't remember the term
Because people like you have delicious tears.
Stop complaining, stop feeding them content and they will stop. Yes, posts like yours on threads like this are content. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4843
|
Posted - 2016.05.04 05:14:34 -
[6173] - Quote
Moonacre Parmala wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Sheesh. Do you need me to tell you how to make a PB&J next? Please We brits don't understand why you call jam jelly
J could be for jam....just saying.
For what it's worth, I always buy jam...never jelly.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4844
|
Posted - 2016.05.04 05:29:22 -
[6174] - Quote
Dornier Pfeil wrote:Daniel Ornulf wrote:Quote:That's the general idea! Exciting, isn't it? oh yeah! let's add a mechanic so the camper has to be on his toes nonstop as well! exciting! Quote:Seriously, all this whining about not being able to engage in casual almost careless play because of guys who are careful and putting for not inconsiderable effort is amazing. LOL effort, casual. we're talking about people who play 10 minutes a day and force a dozen others to glue their eyes on the screen 24/7. are you kidding right now? Is it possible that Teckos Pech's point is: those hours and days (24/7) you have your eyes glued to local don't have to be unproductive ones? Owning a system means multitasking; slurping up your system's resources while being ready to defend it at the same time? If you don't care to be engaged in resource acquisition (whatever form that takes) and you don't care to defend your system, why don't you just log off? Two can play the AFK game, can't they? Please note, all of the above are questions, not sarcastic statements. I am genuinely curious to know the answers. P.S. Moonacre Parmala, I call jellies, jellies and jams(or preserves) jams based on whether there is solid fruit involved. How exactly do you delineate them? edited for clarity
Here is my thinking...
People often come into this thread and make the following statement:
AFK cloaking is a broken (unfair, bad, exploit, harassment, etc.) mechanic because lots of people go to the trouble to get a system and plunk down a TCU, IHUB, and so forth. Then to have one guy come along and ruin it, it just wrong!!!
To which my query is....where are all those "lots of people" that helped secure the system in the first place. Were they all needed for just 1 solo defender? Or did you take on an opposing fleet of "lots of people"?
We all know the answer.
But in either case, if 1 guy cloaked and AFK can ruin your life in NS....maybe NS is not for you. You can't coordinate for ratting, mining, etc.? You can't use something like a cloaky ship yourself to set up bounces and perches to get through gates, do PI, and get out to your POS to do whatever? Really?
You managed to get 100, 200, 300 guys to coordinate to take the system and you can't get 10 in fleet to rat? Suddenly NS is all about solo?
WTF. No really, Whisky Tango Foxtrot? Did you all fall out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down? Twice?
And the nonsense answers....well they'll just drop more people on us. Then bring more people yourself. Seriously, whenever I did BLOPs there was one maybe two guys out hunting (note: HUNTING, not AFK) 1 guy with the PIG and the rest of, say 5-6 on the PIG waiting to bridge in the event we caught something. And that was in the good old pre-fatigue days.
So, we have had cynos and jump drives nerfed (twice technically), yet here we have people crying, "One more NERF!!!!!! One more NERRFFF and it will be balanced!!!!" We have CCP strongly indicating that local is going to go and will be replaced with the OA which will allow for hunting cloaked ships...and yet the whiners are still here. And their whines are basically of the form....
CCP, I don't want to deal with this on my own with my friends, so can you please make it so I don't have to. Thanks, 'k bye.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Noga Taranogas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.07 02:18:16 -
[6175] - Quote
heat accumulation for extended cloaking requiring decloaking to bleed heat, apply paste to damage or have their cloak, cyno, etc... burn out if they want to float afk for more than 6 hours.
there is no safe space in eve -why should there be for cloaky campers? Let the hunters be hunters and afk go F^*%$ themselves. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1117
|
Posted - 2016.05.09 14:47:42 -
[6176] - Quote
There is a great many ways the problem could be resolved that would be fair and equitable to all.
First you would have to break the concrete surrounding the wits of those who think it's fair and equitable now, and convince the Devs that there actually is a problem. Apparently endless streams of people pointing it out cannot make it past that first hurdle, largely because the Devs come from the ranks of the very same folks who enjoy one sided predatory pvp.
There is no way forward. |
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union Apocalypse Now.
224
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 18:12:49 -
[6177] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:There is a great many ways the problem could be resolved that would be fair and equitable to all.
First you would have to break the concrete surrounding the wits of those who think it's fair and equitable now, and convince the Devs that there actually is a problem. Apparently endless streams of people pointing it out cannot make it past that first hurdle, largely because the Devs come from the ranks of the very same folks who enjoy one sided predatory pvp.
There is no way forward.
Agree to nerf local at the same time and we have a deal.
What other counter for the 100% free intel that should keep PvE-ers safe 100% of the time is there other than cloaks? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4851
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 18:26:56 -
[6178] - Quote
Noga Taranogas wrote:heat accumulation for extended cloaking requiring decloaking to bleed heat, apply paste to damage or have their cloak, cyno, etc... burn out if they want to float afk for more than 6 hours.
there is no safe space in eve -why should there be for cloaky campers? Let the hunters be hunters and afk go F^*%$ themselves.
Because you are totally safe from them.
Before your post...you might want to think about that for however long it takes you to realize I'm right.
Oh heck, I'll give you a hint, I am only "safe" so long as a I am cloaked...at a safe spot....get the idea yet?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1119
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 18:30:38 -
[6179] - Quote
Not getting into that again. That particular pair of arguments has been debunked over and over as the worthless, mildew ridden strawmen they are.
Cloaks in their current incarnation are balanced only because PvE professions aren't meant to be fun or challenging, they are meant to provide targets.
Local is balanced just fine, or else it would be somehow magically protecting people in other Ares of space too. Yet people die every day all over. It's almost as if local does not protect anyone on its own at all... Perhaps there is another factor at work there? Like maybe alliances and players working together to deny enemies soft targets?
Must be something there... |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1119
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 18:36:22 -
[6180] - Quote
Totally safe... Yep... Right up until you aren't... In a game that demands PvE playstyles be proactive in their defense, with the only actual defense being not to allow an enemy on grid.
I mean... Sure. It's cool that the hunter can set up his defense against being hunted right back a week in advance, proof against any and all attempts to do to him what he is doing to others. No imbalance there at all... Since he just wants to harvest a PvE player. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 200 300 .. 343 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |