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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
585
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 20:22:41 -
[6931] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Silly troll
I love how your style of conversation is to retreat into a shell, insult others intelligence and call them trolls when you run out of valid points to make.
When you have something of substance on this thread's topic, feel free to shoot me a message. |
Greylord Kane
Dredge Nation Short Bus Syndicate
3
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 20:23:25 -
[6932] - Quote
Spoken like a true camper..lol j/k We can circular reason all day on this topic but a de-cloaking device would delineate cloakers vrs Cloaky AFK campers with no hinder to drops or things alike. The only one that would endanger are people who are AFK camping. Hey why not make it harder for campers? I have no problem with hot dropping or black ops cyno...but making it a bit more challenging would enhance the game and if AFK campers can't handle that..they can go to H.S.... cloak... and sit in a asteroid belt and go make pancakes :) A de-cloaking device would not guarantee 100% free ratting as you suggest. A system that would say de cloak a camper for a period of two minutes to which the cloaker can warp away and re-cloak gives the system a chance to hunt for them, and since the cloakers are active and NOT AFK the can just warp away and bounce until the timer is done. They could have a nice long timer put on the device that only let's it be used 30 minutes or so.. there has to be a balance. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
585
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 20:27:04 -
[6933] - Quote
Greylord Kane wrote:Spoken like a true camper..lol j/k We can circular reason all day on this topic but a de-cloaking device would delineate cloakers vrs Cloaky AFK campers with no hinder to drops or things alike. The only one that would endanger are people who are AFK camping. Hey why not make it harder for campers? I have no problem with hot dropping or black ops cyno...but making it a bit more challenging would enhance the game and if AFK campers can't handle that..they can go to H.S.... cloak... and sit in a asteroid belt and go make pancakes :) A de-cloaking device would not guarantee 100% free ratting as you suggest. A system that would say de cloak a camper for a period of two minutes to which the cloaker can warp away and re-cloak gives the system a chance to hunt for them, and since the cloakers are active and NOT AFK the can just warp away and bounce until the timer is done. They could have a nice long timer put on the device that only let's it be used 30 minutes or so.. there has to be a balance.
I have never AFK camped anyone in my life. I have lived in systems that were camped though. We just ratted in groups in PvP fit ships while in fleet and on comms (if you're in null, you should be in fleet and on comms 100% of the time anyway). The people stupid enough to try to gank us simply died.
Again, get rid of local and we can talk. A PvE-er watching local will literally never die. in sov null. |
Greylord Kane
Dredge Nation Short Bus Syndicate
3
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 20:41:55 -
[6934] - Quote
Getting rid of Local is an interesting idea :) Not sure why you are so afraid of balance unless you somehow think it will effect gameplay? Can you explain to me how my proposed idea will effect game play in a negative light? Can you tell me how AFK camping can be justified? You know as well as I not everyone can just join a fleet all the time, and some don't like to... so the theory to just join fleet will leave those smaller groups just locked down in stations? |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2433
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 20:47:30 -
[6935] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Silly troll I love how your style of conversation is to retreat into a shell, insult others intelligence and call them trolls when you run out of valid points to make. When you have something of substance on this thread's topic, feel free to shoot me a message.
You are just a one trick silly troll who says the same moronic things again and again.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
585
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 20:54:07 -
[6936] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:You are just a one trick silly troll who says the same moronic things again and again.
There are 336 pages in this thread, mate. No one has said anything original for 320 pages. You included.
It's literally "here are the existing game mechanics to protect you from AFK cloakers (who can't hurt you, by the way)"
with the response being "but...my ISK, there's a chance they might hurt me, I shouldn't have to pay attention in NULL and shouldn't have to gimp my PvE fit by making it a PvP ship. Also, joining a fleet is crazy."
That's been the argument for hundreds upon hundreds of pages. And the irony of you claiming someone is mindlessly repeating the same thing over and over. At least I'm not the one resorting to personal insults. You lost this debate the minute you started doing that. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5267
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 20:56:25 -
[6937] - Quote
Greylord Kane wrote:Getting rid of Local is an interesting idea :) Not sure why you are so afraid of balance unless you somehow think it will effect gameplay? Can you explain to me how my proposed idea will effect game play in a negative light? Can you tell me how AFK camping can be justified? You know as well as I not everyone can just join a fleet all the time, and some don't like to... so the theory to just join fleet will leave those smaller groups just locked down in stations?
Because your idea would be a nerf to ATK cloaking ships too. Suppose I want to roam around you systems in a cloaking ship and try to catch ratters and miners who are also watching Netflix, now my game just got nerfed even though I am ATK.
That idea is not new and has been proposed since forever.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
793
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 20:56:36 -
[6938] - Quote
Hey .... I've seen some good ideas; don't ask me to look 'em up again but there's something of value up until page 180 or so! (true story)
and then some around 220-240 I think.
Don't knock it till you read it ... |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2433
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 20:57:00 -
[6939] - Quote
Greylord Kane wrote:Getting rid of Local is an interesting idea :) Not sure why you are so afraid of balance unless you somehow think it will effect gameplay? Can you explain to me how my proposed idea will effect game play in a negative light? Can you tell me how AFK camping can be justified? You know as well as I not everyone can just join a fleet all the time, and some don't like to... so the theory to just join fleet will leave those smaller groups just locked down in stations?
Getting rid of local has a couple of major impacts, the first is that there are other free intels that should also go, like the stuff on the map, and Dotlan, this enables people to zero in on active players, so if you remove local and not them you make the balance massively in the favour of people who want to catch people.
The next part of the equations is what happens to all those players in poorly attended TZ's and small alliances, do they have to have multiple accounts to be able to put a scout on each gate and on each WH to be able to control their risk, it just gets too much of a lottery unless you are in a system with a lot of other players. In theory though what would happen is that people would group up more and people would stop going into poor true sec systems to hunt, but that would require the other free data like number of people in system and NPC kills to take a hike too so that you could rat and hide yourself operating. If you get rid of local you need to get rid of all other free intel.
Another key issue is that with the removal of combat recons from D-scan there is a huge hole in terms of getting a warning of approaching danger. I was very good at keeping my attention when ratting on local when ratting, and only a few times did I miss someone arriving in local, but it can happen.
But I also operated in a contested NPC 0.0 system in 2010 and I had to use D-scan a lot, and I have to say it gets really tedious clicking D-scan continuously, if CCP made that automatic in some way then perhaps it would be helpful, because its just a pain otherwise.
EDIT: The belief is that many people would give up on 0.0 do level 4's for a while and then as they are so brain dead boring leave Eve.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
586
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 21:00:54 -
[6940] - Quote
Greylord Kane wrote:Getting rid of Local is an interesting idea :) Not sure why you are so afraid of balance unless you somehow think it will effect gameplay? Can you explain to me how my proposed idea will effect game play in a negative light? Can you tell me how AFK camping can be justified? You know as well as I not everyone can just join a fleet all the time, and some don't like to... so the theory to just join fleet will leave those smaller groups just locked down in stations?
I'm not afraid of balance. The game is balanced as it stands today regarding cloaking. Someone cloaked can't earn isk and can't hurt anyone. They pose no threat.
With respect, if you're in a small enough group that you can't have standing defense fleets going 24/7, you either need to accept the fact that you will have to change systems when hostiles show up, or accept the fact that NS isn't for you. The group I fly with now has a rule that if you're online and not in HS, you're in comms and in a standing fleet. If you aren't our directors will destroy the non-complaint themselves as a warning not to do it again. That's very fair. If you want to live in the most dangerous parts of the game with very small groups, you have to accept the consequences that come with that. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Local is the best intel tool in the game for those in nullsec. Any PvE-er keeping an eye on local will NEVER get killed. Never. Nerfing cloaking without addressing local simply means there is literally no way to counter that unbelievably powerful intel tool. |
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Greylord Kane
Dredge Nation Short Bus Syndicate
3
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 21:05:35 -
[6941] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Greylord Kane wrote:Getting rid of Local is an interesting idea :) Not sure why you are so afraid of balance unless you somehow think it will effect gameplay? Can you explain to me how my proposed idea will effect game play in a negative light? Can you tell me how AFK camping can be justified? You know as well as I not everyone can just join a fleet all the time, and some don't like to... so the theory to just join fleet will leave those smaller groups just locked down in stations? Because your idea would be a nerf to ATK cloaking ships too. Suppose I want to roam around you systems in a cloaking ship and try to catch ratters and miners who are also watching Netflix, now my game just got nerfed even though I am ATK. That idea is not new and has been proposed since forever.
Yeah good points! That would be something they would have to figure out. AFK ratting, Mining are both an issue. |
Greylord Kane
Dredge Nation Short Bus Syndicate
3
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 21:13:26 -
[6942] - Quote
Sonya: Of course you in your bias opinion it is balanced, and in my bias opinion it isn't.. that will just go round and round...lol Thanks though for a more debate than argument... Appreciate that! |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5267
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 21:43:49 -
[6943] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
Getting rid of local has a couple of major impacts, the first is that there are other free intels that should also go, like the stuff on the map, and Dotlan, this enables people to zero in on active players, so if you remove local and not them you make the balance massively in the favour of people who want to catch people.
The general consensus is that free intel is bad and should go. So, I'd be fine with Dotlan not telling us how many rats have been killed in the last hour, last day, etc.
Quote:The next part of the equations is what happens to all those players in poorly attended TZ's and small alliances, do they have to have multiple accounts to be able to put a scout on each gate and on each WH to be able to control their risk, it just gets too much of a lottery unless you are in a system with a lot of other players. In theory though what would happen is that people would group up more and people would stop going into poor true sec systems to hunt, but that would require the other free data like number of people in system and NPC kills to take a hike too so that you could rat and hide yourself operating. If you get rid of local you need to get rid of all other free intel.
Local does not let you scout ahead. So I'm not seeing the issue here. Yes, if you are in bad TZ relative to your alliance, like me, things are not as easy for you--i.e. less people around.
Quote:Another key issue is that with the removal of combat recons from D-scan there is a huge hole in terms of getting a warning of approaching danger. I was very good at keeping my attention when ratting on local when ratting, and only a few times did I miss someone arriving in local, but it can happen.
But I also operated in a contested NPC 0.0 system in 2010 and I had to use D-scan a lot, and I have to say it gets really tedious clicking D-scan continuously, if CCP made that automatic in some way then perhaps it would be helpful, because its just a pain otherwise.
Well depending on how you fit the Observatory Array those concerns could all be addressed.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5267
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 21:58:35 -
[6944] - Quote
Greylord Kane wrote:Sonya: Of course you in your bias opinion it is balanced, and in my bias opinion it isn't.. that will just go round and round...lol Thanks though for a more debate than argument... Appreciate that!
How about this, it is balanced, but sub-optimal. The desirable solution is to keep things balanced, but move to a more engaging form of play.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2433
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 10:09:48 -
[6945] - Quote
Lets explain why this statement is so moronic:
Quote:If they are AFK they can't kill you
1. Then why do it then? 2. How do we know whether the player is AFK or not (Made more difficult with recent changes in the game.) 3. So does it matter if we flag them as AFK then (Suddenly it does...)
So that very comment is wny I suggested an OS to flag people as AFK. Simple really...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18161
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 10:15:28 -
[6946] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
1. Then why do it then?
To counter the free and instant intel from local.
Dracvlad wrote: 2. How do we know whether the player is AFK or not (Made more difficult with recent changes in the game.)
You don't, hence why it counters local.
Dracvlad wrote: 3. So does it matter if we flag them as AFK then (Suddenly it does...)
Yes because it no longer counters local.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2433
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 10:43:26 -
[6947] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
1. Then why do it then?
To counter the free and instant intel from local. Dracvlad wrote: 2. How do we know whether the player is AFK or not (Made more difficult with recent changes in the game.)
You don't, hence why it counters local. Dracvlad wrote: 3. So does it matter if we flag them as AFK then (Suddenly it does...)
Yes because it no longer counters local.
So you leave someone in a system because you don't like local? You are weird, totally weird, so you don't like long term game mechanics so you plonk someone in a system.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
593
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 13:38:02 -
[6948] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:So you leave someone in a system because you don't like local? You are weird, totally weird, so you don't like long term game mechanics so you plonk someone in a system.
Yes, using game mechanics (cloaking) to counter other game mechanics (local).
Unlike you who just whines for another nerf, instead of using you know, game mechanics. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2433
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 15:09:55 -
[6949] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Dracvlad wrote:So you leave someone in a system because you don't like local? You are weird, totally weird, so you don't like long term game mechanics so you plonk someone in a system. Yes, using game mechanics (cloaking) to counter other game mechanics (local). Unlike you who just whines for another nerf, instead of using you know, game mechanics.
See you ignored my comment on your moronic statement. I thought you would, not a surprise.
What am I nerfing exactly?
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
593
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 15:17:14 -
[6950] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:See you ignored my comment on your moronic statement. I thought you would, not a surprise.
What am I nerfing exactly?
...cloaks....that's kinda sorta the point of this thread. It's even in the title.
And yes, I am ignoring the stupider things you say, given your entire goal here is to make AFK ratting trivial in null |
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18165
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 16:18:06 -
[6951] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Dracvlad wrote:So you leave someone in a system because you don't like local? You are weird, totally weird, so you don't like long term game mechanics so you plonk someone in a system. Yes, using game mechanics (cloaking) to counter other game mechanics (local). Unlike you who just whines for another nerf, instead of using you know, game mechanics. See you ignored my comment on your moronic statement. I thought you would, not a surprise. What am I nerfing exactly?
The only counter to local. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2433
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 17:56:48 -
[6952] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Dracvlad wrote:So you leave someone in a system because you don't like local? You are weird, totally weird, so you don't like long term game mechanics so you plonk someone in a system. Yes, using game mechanics (cloaking) to counter other game mechanics (local). Unlike you who just whines for another nerf, instead of using you know, game mechanics. See you ignored my comment on your moronic statement. I thought you would, not a surprise. What am I nerfing exactly? The only counter to local.
No, I am suggesting a nerf to AFK game play.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5269
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 18:47:28 -
[6953] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
What am I nerfing exactly?
The only counter to local. No, I am suggesting a nerf to AFK game play.
Which also encompasses the only counter to local at this time.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2433
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 18:48:45 -
[6954] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
What am I nerfing exactly?
The only counter to local. No, I am suggesting a nerf to AFK game play. Which also encompasses the only counter to local at this time.
What when you are AFK?
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5269
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 19:56:30 -
[6955] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
What am I nerfing exactly?
The only counter to local. No, I am suggesting a nerf to AFK game play. Which also encompasses the only counter to local at this time. What when you are AFK?
Or ATK. A cloaked ship makes local less reliable.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2433
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 20:27:33 -
[6956] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote: The only counter to local.
No, I am suggesting a nerf to AFK game play. Which also encompasses the only counter to local at this time. What when you are AFK? Or ATK. A cloaked ship makes local less reliable.
No problem with ATK
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
595
|
Posted - 2016.09.23 21:17:01 -
[6957] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:No, I am suggesting a nerf to AFK game play.
So you agree that we should auto logoff any miner who is AFK mining, or any ratter who is AFK ratting with a drone boat as well.
They are actually earning ISK while engaging in AFK gameplay, so I'm assuming you're more upset about them than someone cloaked and unable to do anything. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18167
|
Posted - 2016.09.24 00:19:20 -
[6958] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
No problem with ATK
Still nerfing the only counter to local. |
Skipper Riddles
Ivory Vanguard
50
|
Posted - 2016.09.24 02:39:01 -
[6959] - Quote
Can reworking the jumpgate action camera be considered?
Maybe make it something a little smoother than that quick whip to the other side. I was thinking something smooth and 1st and/or 3rd person from chase cam behind the ship. Like the acceleration gate action; A more realistic 'journey' view "through the gate" rather than to the gate and "WAMMO WHIP" I just think it puts to much 'drama' on the screen in the wrong place, at the wrong time. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2433
|
Posted - 2016.09.24 07:20:42 -
[6960] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Dracvlad wrote:No, I am suggesting a nerf to AFK game play. So you agree that we should auto logoff any miner who is AFK mining, or any ratter who is AFK ratting with a drone boat as well. They are actually earning ISK while engaging in AFK gameplay, so I'm assuming you're more upset about them than someone cloaked and unable to do anything.
You should ask yourself that question, then think about the issues of automatic safe logout and how it affects Super and Titan hunting.
A miner who is mining ice obviously can sit there afk for a long time, but it is not what it was when the ice would not deplete, now it does. CCP adjusted that to make it less of an issue. In most systems the ice disappears within 20 minutes, being AFK means you won't get much ice mate.
In a Skiff I had one and a half cycles on the asteroids I was mining in my preferred system, hardly the time to powder my nose... Being AFK means you will not get much ore mate...
But I would be happy to see an AFK flag on them too if they have been inactive for more than an hour and if someone puts up an OS to apply the AFK flag, seems fair to me.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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