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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
708
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Posted - 2017.02.21 19:10:16 -
[8941] - Quote
Ji7 Aldard wrote:Nat Silverguard wrote:
fck wormhole dudes huh?
fck explaining whats wrong or giving reasons huh? coz this in no Fing forum to discuss the topic... oh wait... it is...
431 pages, special snowflake thinking he has the best idea, lol.
you think this hasn't been discussed before?
too cool to read the whole fcking thread huh?
Just Add Water
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Ji7 Aldard
Shield Nation Limited Expectations
23
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Posted - 2017.02.21 19:56:11 -
[8942] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:... oh I have read it.. I read it for a loooooong time... more than half of that is people like you text walling and not even bringing any value to the topic.. like you just now.
I have dropped my 2cents into the pool... and Im preaty much sure its upto the devs what they pick up.. not you. so Im not justifiing to you. and unless you have something to say to the topic Im not contributing to bricking this thread with unvaluable balast. have a nice day.
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
708
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Posted - 2017.02.21 20:02:02 -
[8943] - Quote
Ji7 Aldard wrote:Nat Silverguard wrote:... oh I have read it.. I read it for a loooooong time... more than half of that is people like you text walling and not even bringing any value to the topic.. like you just now. I have dropped my 2cents into the pool... and Im preaty much sure its upto the devs what they pick up.. not you. so Im not justifiing to you. and unless you have something to say to the topic Im not contributing to bricking this thread with unvaluable balast. have a nice day.
Nice bluff honey.
Just Add Water
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5964
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Posted - 2017.02.21 20:59:38 -
[8944] - Quote
Ji7 Aldard wrote:Nat Silverguard wrote:... oh I have read it.. I read it for a loooooong time... more than half of that is people like you text walling and not even bringing any value to the topic.. like you just now. I have dropped my 2cents into the pool... and Im preaty much sure its upto the devs what they pick up.. not you. so Im not justifiing to you. and unless you have something to say to the topic Im not contributing to bricking this thread with unvaluable balast. have a nice day.
Your idea is not a new one though. It has been suggested, typically as a POS module, since forever. And if I am actively lurking up on some prey why should that be interrupted by a mechanic not even aimed at me?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
2897
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Posted - 2017.02.22 10:34:01 -
[8945] - Quote
Ji7 Aldard wrote:My suggestion would be to have a citadel/eng.complex module and/or a deployable that would deactivate cloak on all ships in the system.
properties: - consumes fuel - has a spinup cycle that would be detectable by the cloaked ships (cloaked ship would get a warning about the module activation 60 seconds prior to cloak deactivation) - has a reload cycle of 10 minutes or so (to prevent constant cloak deactivation) - only one activation allowed in system at a time
process: - activate module - warn cloaked (or just all) ships in the system about charge build up in the decloak module - 60s spinup - discharge the module and deactivate cloak on all ships in the system - reload cycle of 10 minutes to get more fuel for next use
effect: - afk campers will obviously not notice the warning and will not recloak and will be scanable by combat probes - cloaky hunters will have plenty of time to act (get into warp while decloaked / strike before being uncloaked / anything else you can think of)
Whereas I can understand where you are coming from I have to point out that cloaks offer a very important ability to more casual and smaller groups. Your idea is one thing that people have suggested in the past, but being able to do this every 10 minutes is a bit much and has no cost apart from fuel. I do not want to see active hunting damaged, my issue has always been with the inactive area denial by players who are at work or asleep and who you waste your time baiting, it is incredibly poor game play.
Back to your idea, I would suggest a 24 hour spool up on this so it can only be used against an especially annoying AFK cloaky camper.
The trick in this is getting the balance right.
Thanks for the suggestion and try not to get derailed by the trolls in here, I saw one remove local posted as troll bait for example.
The WH comment as being damaged by your idea has merit.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein
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Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
3
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Posted - 2017.02.22 11:15:10 -
[8946] - Quote
This thread is too long to even start to read so my 2 cents: AFK Cloakers are problem - But im against a timed cloak modules as it will help gangers or would help to hunt ppl stuck in pipe systems;
Mechanic is fine as it is - If u want to do something about cloaker, prepare a bait for it - and kill it;
Maybe there is a little idea what to do...if u live in a sov null sec, own the system - probably a nice would be to have a anchore module which would "ping" every non blue cloakers each 10-20 minutes so u can scan down the "ping" and find the cloacker;
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
2899
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Posted - 2017.02.22 12:53:30 -
[8947] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:This thread is too long to even start to read so my 2 cents: AFK Cloakers are problem - But im against a timed cloak modules as it will help gangers or would help to hunt ppl stuck in pipe systems;
Mechanic is fine as it is - If u want to do something about cloaker, prepare a bait for it - and kill it;
Maybe there is a little idea what to do...if u live in a sov null sec, own the system - probably a nice would be to have a anchore module which would "ping" every non blue cloakers each 10-20 minutes so u can scan down the "ping" and find the cloacker;
Good post, the reason this subject gets trolled so much is that it is something that people do for an easy life and easy kills.
The problem about baiting is that how do you know that your bait is during their active period, and you have set up 10 perhaps 15 players to jump in and waited around for any reaction for 5, 6 or even 10 hours like I have. And after that has happened for a few days people just give up.
However on the flip side cloaks are something that should not be nerfed in my humble opinion, the best thing for me was to flag people as AFK, because really that is the only issue, if they are active and hunting I have no issue what so ever.
Now your idea like the one I replied to above has merit, however it is too easy to use and in my opinion breaks cloaks to a degree that I would find unacceptable. I have moved a BR through hostile space and I use a T3C scout, when I see a gate camp that my BR cannot get through I have to wait it out, when then? Big alliances can drop citadels for safe logistics, but the small guy?
The balance has to be right on this.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein
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Ji7 Aldard
Shield Nation Limited Expectations
23
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Posted - 2017.02.22 18:13:42 -
[8948] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: Back to your idea, I would suggest a 24 hour spool up on this so it can only be used against an especially annoying AFK cloaky camper.
hm.. maybe 10 minutes are a bit short. then again 24 spool up is a bit too much, he will always get saved by DT.
Dracvlad wrote: The WH comment as being damaged by your idea has merit, mainly because a lot of game play is based around use of the cloak.
and Im not saying my idea solves it all but untill we talk about whats wrong we are not geting anywhere. oneway how to change the impact is to have only as a citadel module... you would not fire the thing to ruin your own ambush (If I have a citadel in your WH then geting decloaked is propably the least of your worries:)).
anyways thx for a civilized conversation. |
Ji7 Aldard
Shield Nation Limited Expectations
23
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 18:30:11 -
[8949] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Your idea is not a new one though. It has been suggested, typically as a POS module, since forever. And if I am actively lurking up on some prey why should that be interrupted by a mechanic not even aimed at me?
and I know its not new. Im simply expressing my variant.
ok, lets say 10 minute reload is realy short. what about 30min is that still not enought to strike? I understand your perspective. now understand the perspective of the people on the other side.. they want to kill you to continue what they were doing... and they cant.. at the moment the cloaking mechanic simply stops a gang of people, well able to kill you I have to point out, just because a single toon is not able/willing/ready/whatever to strike. and to me that is a balance that is just a way how to bore people out... and that is not good for a game.
so how long do you need to strike? or is it simply the thing you would suddenly become the pray? and dont get mad, I realy want to know.
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
709
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Posted - 2017.02.22 18:39:43 -
[8950] - Quote
Ji7 Aldard wrote:
and Im not saying my idea solves it all but untill we talk about whats wrong we are not geting anywhere.
nothing's wrong with AFK (emphasizing on AWAY) cloaky camper.
they can't do anything to you and you to them. they can't even lock you.
the threat and effects are all in your head and therefore irrelevant.
Just Add Water
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5974
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 21:38:54 -
[8951] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:This thread is too long to even start to read so my 2 cents: AFK Cloakers are problem - But im against a timed cloak modules as it will help gangers or would help to hunt ppl stuck in pipe systems;
Mechanic is fine as it is - If u want to do something about cloaker, prepare a bait for it - and kill it;
Maybe there is a little idea what to do...if u live in a sov null sec, own the system - probably a nice would be to have a anchore module which would "ping" every non blue cloakers each 10-20 minutes so u can scan down the "ping" and find the cloacker;
This addresses more than AFK cloaking. Why should the game play of ATK cloakers be nerfed?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5974
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 21:42:26 -
[8952] - Quote
Ji7 Aldard wrote:Dracvlad wrote: Back to your idea, I would suggest a 24 hour spool up on this so it can only be used against an especially annoying AFK cloaky camper.
hm.. maybe 10 minutes are a bit short. then again 24 spool up is a bit too much, he will always get saved by DT. Dracvlad wrote: The WH comment as being damaged by your idea has merit, mainly because a lot of game play is based around use of the cloak.
and Im not saying my idea solves it all but untill we talk about whats wrong we are not geting anywhere. oneway how to change the impact is to have only as a citadel module... you would not fire the thing to ruin your own ambush (If I have a citadel in your WH then geting decloaked is propably the least of your worries:)). anyways thx for a civilized conversation.
What is wrong is that local is also a factor. How do you know an AFK cloaker is there? Local. People often use AFK cloaking as a way to use local against the person already in system. So you want to nerf ATK cloaking and buff your own playstyle. Not exactly a balanced position.
Now, if we got rid of local and then made it possible to scan a cloaked ship....oh wait, CCP has hinted strongly this is something they'll implement.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5974
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 21:50:15 -
[8953] - Quote
Ji7 Aldard wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Your idea is not a new one though. It has been suggested, typically as a POS module, since forever. And if I am actively lurking up on some prey why should that be interrupted by a mechanic not even aimed at me?
and I know its not new. Im simply expressing my variant. ok, lets say 10 minute reload is realy short. what about 30min is that still not enought to strike? I understand your perspective. now understand the perspective of the people on the other side.. they want to kill you to continue what they were doing... and they cant.. at the moment the cloaking mechanic simply stops a gang of people, well able to kill you I have to point out, just because a single toon is not able/willing/ready/whatever to strike. and to me that is a balance that is just a way how to bore people out... and that is not good for a game. so how long do you need to strike? or is it simply the thing you would suddenly become the pray? and dont get mad, I realy want to know.
The other night I was actively hunting down a guy. He was in a gnosis. I had to execute a couple of warps and then still slow boat to him under the cloak. He was at his keyboard, I was at mine. Why should this kind of interaction be nerfed?
Now CCP is most likely, based on hints they've dropped, going to do the following:
1. Remove local. 2. Introduce the observatory array (OA for short).
The OA will have fittings like all new structures and one is almost surely going to let you scan down cloaked ships. Hopefully with a time delay, say 30 minutes or an hour. What could be nice is having that time delay linked to skills of both the cloaked pilot and the scanning pilot so that there is some uncertainty in there.
Now, the active cloaker gets something:
1. A structure they can attack. 2. Local isn't there to instantly scream your presence.
Those afflicted with AFK cloakers also get something:
1. They can scan down cloakers and kill them if they linger too long.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
4
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 07:35:33 -
[8954] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:[quote=Ji7 Aldard][quote=Teckos Pech]
Now CCP is most likely, based on hints they've dropped, going to do the following:
1. Remove local.
Great Idea :) Let's help gankers in high sec to gank even more if u don't know that they are in system :) That would make this game even more paranoic :) Not the mention it'll slow down ALL the actions what's are now :)
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
2902
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 09:21:15 -
[8955] - Quote
Ji7 Aldard wrote:Dracvlad wrote: Back to your idea, I would suggest a 24 hour spool up on this so it can only be used against an especially annoying AFK cloaky camper.
hm.. maybe 10 minutes are a bit short. then again 24 spool up is a bit too much, he will always get saved by DT. Dracvlad wrote: The WH comment as being damaged by your idea has merit, mainly because a lot of game play is based around use of the cloak.
and Im not saying my idea solves it all but untill we talk about whats wrong we are not geting anywhere. oneway how to change the impact is to have only as a citadel module... you would not fire the thing to ruin your own ambush (If I have a citadel in your WH then geting decloaked is propably the least of your worries:)). anyways thx for a civilized conversation.
The 24 hour spool up was for your next use, but you use it when you want, the thing is the affect has to be long enough for a half way trained prober to scan down the little AFK snowflake so he can be put to the sword.
I do civilised conversations, most of the people here do not, they will just yell remove local and he is AFK what is the issue like one dweeb just did. In WH space people bring in an invasion force and cloak up and take their time to make it so the defender has no clue and they do it over an extended period of time, leaving people logged off, it increases the risk for them. So if this could be used every ten minutes it will destroy WH play, but the suggestion I gave as every 24 hours would likely not impact it.
Anyway you have to be careful when posting ideas here as the sheer intransigence of certain posters is designed to make you react aggressively and thus invalidate your suggestion, your idea is a good one and has been suggested before, but as I said it requires the right balance. CCP will be developing a class of structure called an OA, one of them will be controlling local in 0.0 sov space. Your suggestion could work as part of that type of structure.
I would advise you to keep suggesting it.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18668
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 09:42:26 -
[8956] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:[quote=Ji7 Aldard][quote=Teckos Pech]
Now CCP is most likely, based on hints they've dropped, going to do the following:
1. Remove local.
Great Idea :) Let's help gankers in high sec to gank even more if u don't know that they are in system :) That would make this game even more paranoic :) Not the mention it'll slow down ALL the actions what's are now :)
So long as local exists in the way it currently does we will need AFK cloaking to counter it. |
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
4
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 09:50:58 -
[8957] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Naye Nathaniel wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:[quote=Ji7 Aldard][quote=Teckos Pech]
Now CCP is most likely, based on hints they've dropped, going to do the following:
1. Remove local.
Great Idea :) Let's help gankers in high sec to gank even more if u don't know that they are in system :) That would make this game even more paranoic :) Not the mention it'll slow down ALL the actions what's are now :) So long as local exists in the way it currently does we will need AFK cloaking to counter it.
There is no doubt - there should be something done wih AFK cloakers; My idea is a anchorable in SOV module which ping cloacky ships every 20 minutes, if its afk itll ping his position and ull have like 2 minutes to scan him down;
Or i have other idea - if you are away of keyboard, u should be logged out if u are in space - the only thing when u wont be logged out would be if you are behind a pos forcefield are have modules activated other than cloak OR you have an activate target on (so afk mining would be still possible);
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18668
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 10:07:53 -
[8958] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
There is no doubt - there should be something done wih AFK cloakers; My idea is a anchorable in SOV module which ping cloacky ships every 20 minutes, if its afk itll ping his position and ull have like 2 minutes to scan him down;
Or i have other idea - if you are away of keyboard, u should be logged out if u are in space - the only thing when u wont be logged out would be if you are behind a pos forcefield are have modules activated other than cloak OR you have an activate target on (so afk mining would be still possible);
And what are you going to do to local to balance the removal of the only counter to it? |
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
5
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 10:37:41 -
[8959] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Naye Nathaniel wrote:
There is no doubt - there should be something done wih AFK cloakers; My idea is a anchorable in SOV module which ping cloacky ships every 20 minutes, if its afk itll ping his position and ull have like 2 minutes to scan him down;
Or i have other idea - if you are away of keyboard, u should be logged out if u are in space - the only thing when u wont be logged out would be if you are behind a pos forcefield are have modules activated other than cloak OR you have an activate target on (so afk mining would be still possible);
And what are you going to do to local to balance the removal of the only counter to it?
And what is the reason to do something to local? If u get rid of local u help gankers in high sec which would have easy life killing more freighters; Same stuff in low sec, which u would never fly again to a gate in case someone would blob it;
If u don't like local - go to wormhole =) |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18669
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 12:17:10 -
[8960] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:[quote=baltec1][quote=Naye
And what is the reason to do something to local? If u get rid of local u help gankers in high sec which would have easy life killing more freighters; Same stuff in low sec, which u would never fly again to a gate in case someone would blob it;
If u don't like local - go to wormhole =)
Local is a very powerful intel tool in null. The drone lands for example can see you coming from upwards of 40 systems away and track your progress in real time. If you remove AFK cloaking then you remove the ability to catch the vast bulk of people in null simply because there would be nothing to counter this intel system. |
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Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
10
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Posted - 2017.02.23 13:06:36 -
[8961] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Naye Nathaniel wrote:[quote=baltec1][quote=Naye
And what is the reason to do something to local? If u get rid of local u help gankers in high sec which would have easy life killing more freighters; Same stuff in low sec, which u would never fly again to a gate in case someone would blob it;
If u don't like local - go to wormhole =) Local is a very powerful intel tool in null. The drone lands for example can see you coming from upwards of 40 systems away and track your progress in real time. If you remove AFK cloaking then you remove the ability to catch the vast bulk of people in null simply because there would be nothing to counter this intel system.
I don't get it - please explain me; What you want to counter? Let's say - there is a thing which dont alow afk cloaking camp in system; What is it have with local?
U just countered the uncounterable part of eve; As CCP did with unscannable T3 ships (gg CCP....) |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18669
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 13:11:19 -
[8962] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:baltec1 wrote:Naye Nathaniel wrote:[quote=baltec1][quote=Naye
And what is the reason to do something to local? If u get rid of local u help gankers in high sec which would have easy life killing more freighters; Same stuff in low sec, which u would never fly again to a gate in case someone would blob it;
If u don't like local - go to wormhole =) Local is a very powerful intel tool in null. The drone lands for example can see you coming from upwards of 40 systems away and track your progress in real time. If you remove AFK cloaking then you remove the ability to catch the vast bulk of people in null simply because there would be nothing to counter this intel system. I don't get it - please explain me; What you want to counter? Let's say - there is a thing which dont alow afk cloaking camp in system; What is it have with local? U just countered the uncounterable part of eve; As CCP did with unscannable T3 ships (gg CCP....)
AFK cloaking is the only way to get around local and thus the intel tools. Yes they can still see you but if you are sitting in there doing nothing then they will eventually let their guard down. It's not a great counter to local based intel networks but it's all we have. Remove it and local based intel networks will have no counters at all. This means 100% safety for the residents. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5975
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 16:18:15 -
[8963] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:[quote=Ji7 Aldard][quote=Teckos Pech]
Now CCP is most likely, based on hints they've dropped, going to do the following:
1. Remove local.
Great Idea :) Let's help gankers in high sec to gank even more if u don't know that they are in system :) That would make this game even more paranoic :) Not the mention it'll slow down ALL the actions what's are now :)
First off this is not a HS ganking thread. So your post is off topic. Second, HS ganking has as much to do with the imprudence of the freighter pilot as it does the gankers. In fact, the imprudent actions of the freighter pilot precede any actions the gankers take.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6761420#post6761420
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5975
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 16:25:48 -
[8964] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:baltec1 wrote:
So long as local exists in the way it currently does we will need AFK cloaking to counter it.
There is no doubt - there should be something done wih AFK cloakers; My idea is a anchorable in SOV module which ping cloacky ships every 20 minutes, if its afk itll ping his position and ull have like 2 minutes to scan him down; Or i have other idea - if you are away of keyboard, u should be logged out if u are in space - the only thing when u wont be logged out would be if you are behind a pos forcefield are have modules activated other than cloak OR you have an activate target on (so afk mining would be still possible);
Nope. You should not get intel like this, IMO. You should have to do something other than a one and done thing like anchoring a module. And no fuel doesn't count.
And local needs to go if you are going to be able to find cloakers.
Right now people are not complaining about cloaked ships simply because they can't find them, but that they feel there is nothing they can do in response (which, IMO, is not true, but that has been discussed already, swim back upstream and read about it). No, you should not get increased safety in NS while ratting. It is already safe enough....in fact some could argue it is too safe.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5976
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 16:33:57 -
[8965] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:baltec1 wrote:Naye Nathaniel wrote:[quote=baltec1][quote=Naye
And what is the reason to do something to local? If u get rid of local u help gankers in high sec which would have easy life killing more freighters; Same stuff in low sec, which u would never fly again to a gate in case someone would blob it;
If u don't like local - go to wormhole =) Local is a very powerful intel tool in null. The drone lands for example can see you coming from upwards of 40 systems away and track your progress in real time. If you remove AFK cloaking then you remove the ability to catch the vast bulk of people in null simply because there would be nothing to counter this intel system. I don't get it - please explain me; What you want to counter? Let's say - there is a thing which dont alow afk cloaking camp in system; What is it have with local? U just countered the uncounterable part of eve; As CCP did with unscannable T3 ships (gg CCP....)
Local is perfect. It never misleads. It tells you who is in system with you, always and everywhere. In fact, if you are in system it will give you advance warning on a hostile entering system. Combine that with an intel channel where people report who they see in local and you will have a system where even with a cloak you will have a hard time catching people, because by the time you get to that system you will likely have been spotted and reported several times and your direction of travel noted.
AFK cloaking will take this system and use it against the people using it for their benefit. Now their awesome system above has become a doubled edged sword that is not "cutting them" by cutting down their ratting, etc. And it is often used to try and lul a player into a false sense of complacency. That is, they AFK cloak long enough that people start undocking and doing stuff. Once this happens the AFK cloaker is now going to be ATK, at least part of the time, and looking for kills.
Remove local and you are buffing ratting and all other ISK making activities in NS. So....explain why you need this buff and why ATK cloaking players should be nerfed? Buffing one activity and nerfing another is not balanced game design, BTW. Especially when you are nerfing people who are "not the problem". For example, I have noted I've been hunting with a cloak lately, often solo. I am not AFK cloaking. Even if I linger in system I am still at my keyboard. You want to nerf my play and buff mine, but yet you have not made even a fig leafs attempt at pointing out an existing imbalance.
So, to your idea. No. It is bad.
Edit: Oh and local is invulnerable. Nobody can "shoot" local and keep it from working. They can't hack it and trick it. You can do nothing to local except try and use it to your advantage. Both as a ratter and as an AFK cloaker.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
2902
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 16:41:26 -
[8966] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:baltec1 wrote:Naye Nathaniel wrote:[quote=baltec1][quote=Naye
And what is the reason to do something to local? If u get rid of local u help gankers in high sec which would have easy life killing more freighters; Same stuff in low sec, which u would never fly again to a gate in case someone would blob it;
If u don't like local - go to wormhole =) Local is a very powerful intel tool in null. The drone lands for example can see you coming from upwards of 40 systems away and track your progress in real time. If you remove AFK cloaking then you remove the ability to catch the vast bulk of people in null simply because there would be nothing to counter this intel system. I don't get it - please explain me; What you want to counter? Let's say - there is a thing which dont alow afk cloaking camp in system; What is it have with local? U just countered the uncounterable part of eve; As CCP did with unscannable T3 ships (gg CCP....)
Basically people like baltec1 played in the most active time zone of an alliance that held deep space behind a load of meat shields and which had a very effective intel reporting where they would know of the movements of roaming gangs. He assumes that this state of affairs applies to all other alliances and therefore thinks that AFK cloaky camping is the only counter. He fails to acknowledge that an intel system based on local is only as good as the active people posting on sightings.
He also fails to acknowledge that recent carrier changes result in an awful lot more micro management of your fighters, meaning that your attention is more focused on not losing fighters then reports from various channels and reporting.
So he is taking the most perfect situation and applying it to every alliance and TZ in the game. The truth is that he and his buddies do not want to hop into interceptors to get initial point, they want totally no risk easy kills by hot drops and if the person they are camping 24/24 7/7 gets fed up and leaves 0.0 and then the game they take that as a win too because Eve is not the game for them. Which removes content from roamers who are looking for good fights from people who want to and have the means to defend their space.
Does that help in understanding just where he comes from?
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
856
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Posted - 2017.02.23 17:07:54 -
[8967] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:He also fails to acknowledge that recent carrier changes result in an awful lot more micro management of your fighters, meaning that your attention is more focused on not losing fighters then reports from various channels and reporting.
Plenty of tools available that parse the chatlog files and alert you to any danger with sound pings and the like. Your argument is mood. They don't have to pay attention, they don't even have to be in front of their PC. All they have to do is react when they hear that distinct sound that there is a threat.
AFK cloaking, short of having a wormhole directly in a juicy system with people not paying attention or catching them while they warp to a site, is the only counter we have to local.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
2902
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Posted - 2017.02.23 17:22:49 -
[8968] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:Dracvlad wrote:He also fails to acknowledge that recent carrier changes result in an awful lot more micro management of your fighters, meaning that your attention is more focused on not losing fighters then reports from various channels and reporting.
Plenty of tools available that parse the chatlog files and alert you to any danger with sound pings and the like. Your argument is mood. They don't have to pay attention, they don't even have to be in front of their PC. All they have to do is react when they hear that distinct sound that there is a threat. AFK cloaking, short of having a wormhole directly in a juicy system with people not paying attention or catching them while they warp to a site, is the only counter we have to local.
I have been in a number of 0.0 alliances and never seen stuff like that, again the assumption is that you think that just because some people have done this everyone has done it, that is certainly not the case.
And WH's are always a threat but most of their players hate getting into interceptors and light stuff which is why they whine so much, though Inner Hell are definitely not like that and catch a ton of stuff.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
856
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Posted - 2017.02.23 17:42:19 -
[8969] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:Dracvlad wrote:He also fails to acknowledge that recent carrier changes result in an awful lot more micro management of your fighters, meaning that your attention is more focused on not losing fighters then reports from various channels and reporting.
Plenty of tools available that parse the chatlog files and alert you to any danger with sound pings and the like. Your argument is mood. They don't have to pay attention, they don't even have to be in front of their PC. All they have to do is react when they hear that distinct sound that there is a threat. AFK cloaking, short of having a wormhole directly in a juicy system with people not paying attention or catching them while they warp to a site, is the only counter we have to local. I have been in a number of 0.0 alliances and never seen stuff like that, again the assumption is that you think that just because some people have done this everyone has done it, that is certainly not the case. And WH's are always a threat but most of their players hate getting into interceptors and light stuff which is why they whine so much, though Inner Hell are definitely not like that and catch a ton of stuff. Provibloc has had it for a while (the tool in question was advertised in GD a week or two ago), the null powerblocks have it and the entirety of the drone regions take this one stop further with automated intel bots.
AFK cloaking is a symptom, not a problem. Treating the symptom won't make the problem go away.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5978
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:39:15 -
[8970] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:Dracvlad wrote:He also fails to acknowledge that recent carrier changes result in an awful lot more micro management of your fighters, meaning that your attention is more focused on not losing fighters then reports from various channels and reporting.
Plenty of tools available that parse the chatlog files and alert you to any danger with sound pings and the like. Your argument is mood. They don't have to pay attention, they don't even have to be in front of their PC. All they have to do is react when they hear that distinct sound that there is a threat. AFK cloaking, short of having a wormhole directly in a juicy system with people not paying attention or catching them while they warp to a site, is the only counter we have to local. I have been in a number of 0.0 alliances and never seen stuff like that, again the assumption is that you think that just because some people have done this everyone has done it, that is certainly not the case. And WH's are always a threat but most of their players hate getting into interceptors and light stuff which is why they whine so much, though Inner Hell are definitely not like that and catch a ton of stuff. Provibloc has had it for a while (the tool in question was advertised in GD a week or two ago), the null powerblocks have it and the entirety of the drone regions take this one stop further with automated intel bots. AFK cloaking is a symptom, not a problem. Treating the symptom won't make the problem go away.
Basically this.
BTW, keep going and soon Dracvald will be ignoring you too.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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