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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
365
|
Posted - 2017.04.29 18:49:44 -
[9721] - Quote
Now Life wrote:Why not a : Mobile Cloaking Disruptor
Because "LOL HAY GUYS LETS REMOVE CLOAKS AND THEN NOTHING CAN CATCH ME" is a stupid idea. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
365
|
Posted - 2017.04.29 18:54:18 -
[9722] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:This is the entire basis of the 'OMG, PvE'rs are TOO SAFE, must counter Local'. How do you justify that argument if people aren't supposed to be venerable?
Oh FFS, are you illiterate? We've told you over and over again that the reason is that cloaked ships are just sitting there, while PvE players are farming ISK at maximum efficiency with near-zero risk. Obviously farming the most profitable PvE content in the game should have a higher level of risk than sitting idle in a safespot waiting for an opportunity to do something (at which point risk applies again).
Quote:We can skip the compromised combat potential because plenty of ships are weaker.
No we can't. You can't just handwave away the major balancing factor of cloaking ships being significantly weaker than similar ships in their size class. A covert ops frigate is effectively unarmed, and a cloaking recon ship is much weaker than a HAC or combat recon. And they have similar ISK costs, similar skill requirements, etc, the only difference is the ability to fit a cloak vs. better combat power. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1322
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Posted - 2017.04.29 19:03:19 -
[9723] - Quote
Now Life wrote:Why not a : Mobile Cloaking Disruptor Same restrictions and effective range as the Mobile Cynosural Inhibitors + do not decloak ships in warp + May not be deployed within 75km of any other deployed Mobile structure
and even : The massive energy required to project this field causes the mobile Cloaking Disruptor itself to be extremely visible to combat probes and directional scans. Yeah, and let's remove bombs and bomb launchers along with it.
None of your "ideas" are going to matter because you're a dumb carebear that doesn't understand anything at all about cloaky gameplay.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Now Life
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2017.04.29 19:10:52 -
[9724] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:Now Life wrote:Why not a : Mobile Cloaking Disruptor Because "LOL HAY GUYS LETS REMOVE CLOAKS AND THEN NOTHING CAN CATCH ME" is a stupid idea.
When did I sai LETS REMOVE CLOAKS ? You have min 100km you can fly and not be decloakt with my proposal only now you need to fly your cloakt ship around a Very recognizable and visible cloak disruptor
to difficult ?
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Now Life
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2017.04.29 19:18:07 -
[9725] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:Now Life wrote:Why not a : Mobile Cloaking Disruptor Same restrictions and effective range as the Mobile Cynosural Inhibitors + do not decloak ships in warp + May not be deployed within 75km of any other deployed Mobile structure
and even : The massive energy required to project this field causes the mobile Cloaking Disruptor itself to be extremely visible to combat probes and directional scans. Yeah, and let's remove bombs and bomb launchers along with it. None of your "ideas" are going to matter because you're a dumb carebear that doesn't understand anything at all about cloaky gameplay.
Thank you for treating me and my ideas with respect
kind regards dumb carebear
according to a " Pls do not make pvp too hard CCP or i Suck at it PVPer |
Now Life
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2017.04.29 19:59:53 -
[9726] - Quote
For all the people who think I'm against cloak gameplay
Answer is no
I fly daily cloak ships ( recon / SB and Transport Ships) And yes Now Life is a ALT
But never will I camp a system / region and be AFK cloakt for more than 3h ( food / cleaning) My thought about long time AFK cloak is Weak pvp
Everyone has the right to express his opinion in a normal civilized way And SB are weak hull but lot of speed and DPS for a frig hull So you need the cloak to Sneak up your target and travel , not to go AFK the whole day long
Ships and modules are constantly changing in EVE , PVP and industrial ships /mods to balance the fragile game play of everyone in EVE .
Do you know what you do best?
You adjust to the new game rules |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
365
|
Posted - 2017.04.29 20:05:28 -
[9727] - Quote
Now Life wrote:When did I sai LETS REMOVE CLOAKS ?
When you said "let me put down a deployable next to my PvE ship that prevents a cloaked ship from getting anywhere near me while I farm my PvE content".
Quote:But never will I camp a system / region and be AFK cloakt for more than 3h ( food / cleaning) My thought about long time AFK cloak is Weak pvp
My thought is that "weak PvP" is the whining of someone who doesn't understand what EVE is about. Dead is dead, you don't get bonus points for "strong" PvP.
Quote:Everyone has the right to express his opinion in a normal civilized way
And my opinion is that your opinion is ****ing stupid.
Quote:And SB are weak hull but lot of speed and DPS for a frig hull
They only have DPS against larger targets, and will die long before they can get through a larger ship's tank. You know, because they're glass cannons with T1 frigate levels of HP and no room to fit a tank.
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Now Life
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2017.04.29 20:14:50 -
[9728] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:Now Life wrote:When did I sai LETS REMOVE CLOAKS ? When you said "let me put down a deployable next to my PvE ship that prevents a cloaked ship from getting anywhere near me while I farm my PvE content". Quote:But never will I camp a system / region and be AFK cloakt for more than 3h ( food / cleaning) My thought about long time AFK cloak is Weak pvp My thought is that "weak PvP" is the whining of someone who doesn't understand what EVE is about. Dead is dead, you don't get bonus points for "strong" PvP. Quote:Everyone has the right to express his opinion in a normal civilized way And my opinion is that your opinion is ****ing stupid. Quote:And SB are weak hull but lot of speed and DPS for a frig hull They only have DPS against larger targets, and will die long before they can get through a larger ship's tank. You know, because they're glass cannons with T1 frigate levels of HP and no room to fit a tank.
a 2min onlining timer 16 Sb killing a carrier below 5min 1 SB have Enough dps to kill a Faction BS Ever heard of speed fit , target painter ,censor damp You need to adjust your fit according to your Victims And if you attack Any type of ship with the wrong type ship you loos
Its not te poind of cloakin but of long time AFK cloaking
And now I know you miss a civilized upbringing |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
365
|
Posted - 2017.04.29 20:16:12 -
[9729] - Quote
Now Life wrote:16 Sb killing a carrier below 5min
I fail to see the problem here. If you bring a 16v1 numbers advantage of course you should win.
Quote:1 SB have Enough dps to kill a Faction BS
No they don't, because the bomber can't survive long enough to finish off its target.
Quote:Ever heard of speed fit , target painter ,censor damp
Ever hear of drones?
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Now Life
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2017.04.29 20:24:26 -
[9730] - Quote
Quote:1 SB have Enough dps to kill a Faction BS
No they don't, because the bomber can't survive long enough to finish off its target.
[/quote]
https://zkillboard.com/kill/61912734/
ok 2 SB ooo look a drone ship |
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Maria Dragoon
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
139
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Posted - 2017.04.29 21:51:19 -
[9731] - Quote
Now Life wrote:Quote:1 SB have Enough dps to kill a Faction BS No they don't, because the bomber can't survive long enough to finish off its target. https://zkillboard.com/kill/61912734/ ok 2 SB ooo look a drone ship
I don't get it
You are complaining about how an SB can do a crap ton of damage to a target it was design for (IE, large, low mobility ships) If you bring in frigates, with much better mobility, you can actually force ships to be unable to cloak (insta-lock ships) an interceptors for a lock down.
SBs are design to kill battleships, how are you surpised they killed a...battleship?
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius
"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
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Now Life
The Scope Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2017.04.30 00:27:25 -
[9732] - Quote
lol yep i lost a JF to CODE in high sec Completely different use of SB
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Now Life
The Scope Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2017.04.30 00:56:02 -
[9733] - Quote
So
What can we do to AFK cloakt ships
Now = Nothing just keep a suport fleet on standby just in the event that he sees an easy target when he is back behind his pc.
Problem : - No way to find him in system - AFK <- biggest problemi
possible solutions : - When not active with that character for XX h time auto log off ? - When not active with that character for XX h time Cloak Fades away ? - When not active with that character for XX h time a possibility to scan him with new type of probes ? - ...............
Someone have other possible solutions ?
and yes there are other solutions so we do not have to change the cloak
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
366
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Posted - 2017.04.30 00:56:43 -
[9734] - Quote
Now Life wrote:https://zkillboard.com/kill/61912734/
ok 2 SB ooo look a drone ship
That's ONE KILLMAIL, from a 2v1, where a Dominix didn't bother to fit neuts in their highs. Yes, occasionally stupid people will lose ships, but that doesn't mean that cloaking is a problem. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
366
|
Posted - 2017.04.30 00:59:52 -
[9735] - Quote
Now Life wrote:Now = Nothing just keep a suport fleet on standby just in the event that he sees an easy target when he is back behind his pc.
No, you keep a support fleet on standby because your alliance is not a trash-tier waste of server space and therefore you have a support fleet on standby at all times when you have active players, regardless of whether or not there is a cloaked ship in the system. This protects you from AFK cloakers at the same time that it protects you from an interceptor getting tackle on you, logon traps, NPC spawns you couldn't handle, whatever it happens to be. Don't act like keeping a support fleet on standby is some exceptional burden that you have to put up with.
Quote:possible solutions : - When not active with that character for XX h time auto log off ? - When not active with that character for XX h time Cloak Fades away ? - When not active with that character for XX h time a possibility to scan him with new type of probes ?
Better possible solution: if they're AFK just ignore them, because they can't hurt you. There's a reason adding people as a contact to check when they're active was nerfed, and you're not getting an equivalent for AFK players. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6439
|
Posted - 2017.04.30 04:42:39 -
[9736] - Quote
Now Life wrote:The biggest problem with a afk cloaker is the cyno on the ship .
Now many AFK players have lit a cyno?
Here, I'll answer for you since you won't: None.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6439
|
Posted - 2017.04.30 04:43:41 -
[9737] - Quote
Now Life wrote:Merin Ryskin wrote:Now Life wrote:wormhole group/corporations can't be hotdropt by 100+ capitals /BS I fail to see the problem with a 100+ man fleet succeeding in killing something. If you bring that many ships against a lesser target of course you should win. Perhaps, instead of whining that you can get hotdropped by 100+ capitals, you should match their hotdrop with 100+ capitals of your own? We have And its not the 100+ capitals i have problems with, it's the afk cloaker
Who lights that cyno how....?
I am AFK, how do I push that butan?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6439
|
Posted - 2017.04.30 04:44:46 -
[9738] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Merin Ryskin wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Right. Non-Consent only applies to your targets, it should never ever be allowed to come back to the hunter. Ah yes, the same tired old bleating about "I MUST PVP THIS". You've provided no good reasons for your blanket statements that everything must be vulnerable to attack at all times, you've just declared it to be true. And you continue to overlook the massive balance problems that come with every proposal to add vulnerability to cloaked ships: either the counter is ineffective at best and non-consent applies only in theory, or the counter is way too easy and effectively removes cloaks from the game. And I have no idea why you consider this "ALL MUST BE VULNERABLE" principle to be more important than the practical balance consequences of your obsession with it. You are questioning if someone should be venerable at all. This is the entire basis of the 'OMG, PvE'rs are TOO SAFE, must counter Local'. How do you justify that argument if people aren't supposed to be venerable? Lets skip the part where the cloaked ship isn't interacting with the game, because anyone can refuse to interact with or without a cloak and there are plenty of things a cloaked ship can do including some things you can't while in station, and clearly you are because otherwise this thread would not exist. We can skip the compromised combat potential because plenty of ships are weaker. The entire point is that people are actively evading hunters who then get butthurt that they missed easy targets, and yet you advocate infinite safety at even less effort for your own playstyle.
I am always venerable. Not always vulnerable, but always venerable.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6439
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Posted - 2017.04.30 04:46:58 -
[9739] - Quote
Now Life wrote:just an idea
You have : Mobile Cynosural Inhibitors - 100km effective range Two minute activation time.
May not be deployed within 200km of another Mobile Cynosural Inhibitor, within 75km of Stargates, Stations or Upwell Structures, or within 40km of a Starbase. Cannot be retrieved once deployed. Self-destructs after one hour of operation.
You have : Mobile S / M / L Warp Disruputors - not possible to deploy in 2500m of a gat / ship / WH / ......
Why not a : Mobile Cloaking Disruptor Same restrictions and effective range as the Mobile Cynosural Inhibitors + do not decloak ships in warp + May not be deployed within 75km of any other deployed Mobile structure
and even : The massive energy required to project this field causes the mobile Cloaking Disruptor itself to be extremely visible to combat probes and directional scans.
Oh yeah, lets put that mobile cloak disruptor on a gate and make our systems really safe.
Maybe if you allow for a nerf for local first, if not, no. You do NOT deserve an increase safety considering the safety local already affords you if you use it.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6439
|
Posted - 2017.04.30 04:55:42 -
[9740] - Quote
Now Life wrote:lol yep i lost a JF to CODE in high sec Completely different use of SB
Your problem appears to be that you place zero value on emergent game play. That players find new and novel uses for a given ship class is not a bug, it is a feature.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6439
|
Posted - 2017.04.30 04:58:15 -
[9741] - Quote
Now Life wrote:So
What can we do to AFK cloakt ships
Now = Nothing just keep a suport fleet on standby just in the event that he sees an easy target when he is back behind his pc.
Problem : - No way to find him in system - AFK <- biggest problemi
possible solutions : - When not active with that character for XX h time auto log off ? - When not active with that character for XX h time Cloak Fades away ? - When not active with that character for XX h time a possibility to scan him with new type of probes ? - ...............
Someone have other possible solutions ?
and yes there are other solutions so we do not have to change the cloak
Kind of tired of repeating this....
Get in the standing fleet. Get on comms. Rat in a group. Rat in a group with PvP fit ships. Fit a cyno if you are using a carrier.
Alternative, go to KBs and see when the guy is active. Or test to see if he is active. Start moving around in a hauler like you are "doing stuff"Gäó see if he goes for a quick kill. If he does not after a number of opportunities...maybe he is AFK and as such quite harmless--i.e. go rat, mine, etc.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6439
|
Posted - 2017.04.30 04:59:06 -
[9742] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:Now Life wrote:https://zkillboard.com/kill/61912734/
ok 2 SB ooo look a drone ship That's ONE KILLMAIL, from a 2v1, where a Dominix didn't bother to fit neuts in their highs. Yes, occasionally stupid people will lose ships, but that doesn't mean that cloaking is a problem.
Or bring light or even medium drones.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6439
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Posted - 2017.04.30 05:02:48 -
[9743] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Lets skip the part where the cloaked ship isn't interacting with the game....
Okay, so it is not interacting with "the game" why should "the game" interact with it.
Oh and should I take your lack of reply to my last post as you capitulating?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1198
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Posted - 2017.04.30 05:40:38 -
[9744] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Lets skip the part where the cloaked ship isn't interacting with the game.... Okay, so it is not interacting with "the game" why should "the game" interact with it. Oh and should I take your lack of reply to my last post as you capitulating?
No, you are just not worth arguing with. We have been doing it for years, and you have changed your tune a few times only to change it right back when a new poster showed up.
You aren't reasoning. You have nothing but empty dogma and trolling to offer. You just want to make false statements and take things out of context.
You understand the points being made, you just choose to pretend like we haven't covered the same ground before so that every post we have to keep a huge checklist of buzzwords to keep you from just circling back around to something dealt with 200 pages ago. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6439
|
Posted - 2017.04.30 06:03:03 -
[9745] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Lets skip the part where the cloaked ship isn't interacting with the game.... Okay, so it is not interacting with "the game" why should "the game" interact with it. Oh and should I take your lack of reply to my last post as you capitulating? No, you are just not worth arguing with. We have been doing it for years, and you have changed your tune a few times only to change it right back when a new poster showed up. You aren't reasoning. You have nothing but empty dogma and trolling to offer. You just want to make false statements and take things out of context. You understand the points being made, you just choose to pretend like we haven't covered the same ground before so that every post we have to keep a huge checklist of buzzwords to keep you from just circling back around to something dealt with 200 pages ago.
I think you describe yourself Mike... but whatever. You have completely failed to show a cloak is superior to a station or citadel.
I'll take this as a win.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
3104
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Posted - 2017.04.30 06:59:52 -
[9746] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Lets skip the part where the cloaked ship isn't interacting with the game.... Okay, so it is not interacting with "the game" why should "the game" interact with it. Oh and should I take your lack of reply to my last post as you capitulating? No, you are just not worth arguing with. We have been doing it for years, and you have changed your tune a few times only to change it right back when a new poster showed up. You aren't reasoning. You have nothing but empty dogma and trolling to offer. You just want to make false statements and take things out of context. You understand the points being made, you just choose to pretend like we haven't covered the same ground before so that every post we have to keep a huge checklist of buzzwords to keep you from just circling back around to something dealt with 200 pages ago.
Which is why I blocked this sad troll.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6439
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Posted - 2017.04.30 07:45:13 -
[9747] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Lets skip the part where the cloaked ship isn't interacting with the game.... Okay, so it is not interacting with "the game" why should "the game" interact with it. Oh and should I take your lack of reply to my last post as you capitulating? No, you are just not worth arguing with. We have been doing it for years, and you have changed your tune a few times only to change it right back when a new poster showed up. You aren't reasoning. You have nothing but empty dogma and trolling to offer. You just want to make false statements and take things out of context. You understand the points being made, you just choose to pretend like we haven't covered the same ground before so that every post we have to keep a huge checklist of buzzwords to keep you from just circling back around to something dealt with 200 pages ago. Which is why I blocked this sad troll.
And why you keep replying to my posts you sad sack of crap.
And heaven forbid your little bubble world view face contrary views.
Edit: Maybe you should have your wife post how awesome you are again.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1322
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Posted - 2017.04.30 09:43:32 -
[9748] - Quote
I pity the ISDs that are keeping tabs on this thread...
Okay, Mike, Dracvlad and co. You've had 470 pages to get it and still don't.
You're meaningless crybabies that have no business being in nullsec. You cry all the ******* time and never stop crying and quite literally everyone else is just milking you for more and more tears, but because you're so ******* dumb that you literally run against the same wall over and over and over again, you just don't get it.
Cloaks are balanced. The only problems are instant local chat and your inability to defend yourselves. You have been given time and time again PLENTY of options to deal with afk cloakers and you refuse EVERY SINGLE ONE of them because you DO NOT want to deal with it. Either because you're too lazy, or too stupid. Likely both.
So instead of writing tears every time you press that "post" button, why don't you just man the **** up or finally accept that you're too dumb for the game.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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ripper1 Tivianne
Time Resolves All Modern Problems Combat Wombat.
13
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Posted - 2017.04.30 12:04:31 -
[9749] - Quote
Cloacky Wcamper's |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1199
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Posted - 2017.04.30 16:27:36 -
[9750] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Lets skip the part where the cloaked ship isn't interacting with the game.... Okay, so it is not interacting with "the game" why should "the game" interact with it. Oh and should I take your lack of reply to my last post as you capitulating? No, you are just not worth arguing with. We have been doing it for years, and you have changed your tune a few times only to change it right back when a new poster showed up. You aren't reasoning. You have nothing but empty dogma and trolling to offer. You just want to make false statements and take things out of context. You understand the points being made, you just choose to pretend like we haven't covered the same ground before so that every post we have to keep a huge checklist of buzzwords to keep you from just circling back around to something dealt with 200 pages ago. I think you describe yourself Mike... but whatever. You have completely failed to show a cloak is superior to a station or citadel. I'll take this as a win.
That's you trying to twist things out of context again. They aren't, and should not be comparable. One aspect- safety- happens to be something that unfortunately is comparable, and it is in the cloaks favor. No doubt you will once again snip out the rest of the post and try to make some kind of point with it.
You aren't worth arguing with.
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