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GeeShizzle MacCloud
531
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Posted - 2015.03.07 14:28:03 -
[1381] - Quote
aquatac wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:aquatac wrote:
do you ever have used Blackops and Covert Ops in real Campaigns where you travel through hostile Staging Areas with 500 Hostiles in Space ???
Cause thats one of the Situations where those Ships come into Play...
yes i have and i do, i own a blops and multiple cov cyno characters both in my corp and as non affiliated alts. and i fly with a variety of bomber groups that both use cov cynos and blops all the time. in fact here's a strategic blops staging/movement and coordination plan that was implemented up until the phoebe expansion where it became impractical. http://i.imgur.com/YzIf0af.png?1 however... i fly blops too and also different covert ops / recon alts whatsever... and i just think your idea about the offlining / onlining does'nt adress the real issue. In View on dynamic Warfare i really would want something to counter that Cloak stuff - should be there since Years ago... but they dont give a ****.
would love to know quite what you feel actually is the real issue, if you mean that ships that can use covert ops cloaks have been subject to continual power creep upwards to the point they provide too bigger combat capability against conventional ships then say so.
I personally do not think that, but I do feel that the ability to both:
- wield a ship thats moderately powerful
- can cloak and warp cloaked
- has the ability to choose its targets
- has the element of surprise and the ability to incapacitate (curse/falcon)
AND if it all goes t*ts up can instantly bring in 20 friends who undock and are ready to go in 5 seconds from up to 8 light years away, through cynojammers and not have to sit there for 10 minutes protecting the pilot that doesn't have the skills to win a fight alone that he chooses, especially when he has full tactical advantages of both a surprise attack and knowing his target.
Pretty much all other forms of pvp in this game have risk associated with the reward of the win, except this. But inconvenience someone with the fact they have to offline and online a mod before being bailed out, ohh god no. That just isn't fair! |
Haywoud Jablomi
1st Stage Alternate Allegiance
63
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Posted - 2015.03.07 14:50:49 -
[1382] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Haywoud Jablomi wrote:I do find that rather amazing. CCP is ok with a broke mechanic. It would seem that Fozzie is tipping his hand at removing local from null.
Though who knows how long that will take. They talked about sov for years and nothing happened till now.
We shall see what happens. They have wanted to remove local as an intel tool, for a long long time. It is indeed, a broken mechanic. I don't find what he said in the least surprising tbh. It also highlights what we have been saying.
This is true. My complaint has always been the immunity that cloak provides. I still think there is an issue there, that was not addressed in Fozzies comment.
I am interested to see what he has in mind. Fozzie is kind of hit and miss in my book so far.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? Yes; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP should be completely avoided" "However if you train cloak, you can avoid it all you want." (Modified)
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aquatac
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
12
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Posted - 2015.03.07 15:20:23 -
[1383] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:aquatac wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:aquatac wrote:
do you ever have used Blackops and Covert Ops in real Campaigns where you travel through hostile Staging Areas with 500 Hostiles in Space ???
Cause thats one of the Situations where those Ships come into Play...
yes i have and i do, i own a blops and multiple cov cyno characters both in my corp and as non affiliated alts. and i fly with a variety of bomber groups that both use cov cynos and blops all the time. in fact here's a strategic blops staging/movement and coordination plan that was implemented up until the phoebe expansion where it became impractical. http://i.imgur.com/YzIf0af.png?1 however... i fly blops too and also different covert ops / recon alts whatsever... and i just think your idea about the offlining / onlining does'nt adress the real issue. In View on dynamic Warfare i really would want something to counter that Cloak stuff - should be there since Years ago... but they dont give a ****. would love to know quite what you feel actually is the real issue, if you mean that ships that can use covert ops cloaks have been subject to continual power creep upwards to the point they provide too bigger combat capability against conventional ships then say so. I personally do not think that, but I do feel that the ability to both:
- wield a ship thats moderately powerful
- can cloak and warp cloaked
- has the ability to choose its targets
- has the element of surprise and the ability to incapacitate (curse/falcon)
AND if it all goes t*ts up can instantly bring in 20 friends who undock and are ready to go in 5 seconds from up to 8 light years away, through cynojammers and not have to sit there for 10 minutes protecting the pilot that doesn't have the skills to win a fight alone that he chooses, especially when he has full tactical advantages of both a surprise attack and knowing his target. Pretty much all other forms of pvp in this game have risk associated with the reward of the win, except this. But inconvenience someone with the fact they have to offline and online a mod before being bailed out, ohh god no. That just isn't fair!
This thread is about AFK Cloaky Fags.
If you bring a Ship into a Vulnerable Position with a Cloaky *** in your System (like Ratting for example) its not a "Surprise" if youre getting hotdropped. Also we have Player Generated tools like surrounding Intel - so for sure we could know whats arround us in 8 LY Range... if we care about it. If we do... one cloaky Alt - can generate already a Tactical Disadvantage for a whole alliance for example - he can reduce the activity in a System to a Minimum.
The Capabilities of Covert Ops, Blops and Recons are totally not an Issue for me - its just the Fact that we dont have anything to counter that - in a way which would force the Cloaked guy (no matter for what reason he is there) would force to react again.
The issue is - the Meta game... you just can keep cloaked "Eyes" somewhere from dt to dt - without even doing anything - and thats an issue.
Its for example enuff to place 1 maybe 2 dudes in your hostile Staging system on Grid of their Staging Tower - to zactly know what they do... there should be a way - or a set of Tools - to deal with that - to disrupt it - if i need or want to do that. Simple as that - we got Probes, we got dscan - we just need something to force him remotly to be visible for a limited time (its up to any Entity or anyone to even use those set of tools then... but still - we dont have it handy yet).
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Terraniel Aurelius
High Flyers The Kadeshi
24
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Posted - 2015.03.07 15:59:31 -
[1384] - Quote
aquatac wrote:If you bring a Ship into a Vulnerable Position with a Cloaky in your System (like Ratting for example) its not a "Surprise" if youre getting hotdropped. Also we have Player Generated tools like surrounding Intel - so for sure we could know whats arround us in 8 LY Range... if we care about it. If we do... one cloaky Alt - can generate already a Tactical Disadvantage for a whole alliance for example - he can reduce the activity in a System to a Minimum.
The Capabilities of Covert Ops, Blops and Recons are totally not an Issue for me - its just the Fact that we dont have anything to counter that - in a way which would force the Cloaked guy (no matter for what reason he is there) would force to react again.
The issue is - the Meta game... you just can keep cloaked "Eyes" somewhere from dt to dt - without even doing anything - and thats an issue.
Its for example enuff to place 1 maybe 2 dudes in your hostile Staging system on Grid of their Staging Tower - to zactly know what they do... there should be a way - or a set of Tools - to deal with that - to disrupt it - if i need or want to do that. Simple as that - we got Probes, we got dscan - we just need something to force him remotly to be visible for a limited time (its up to any Entity or anyone to even use those set of tools then... but still - we dont have it handy yet).
I agree with most of what you're saying, but I think that an omnipotent system decloak device would be horrendously overpowered. If it was something the defenders had to actively use and have skill in, and was limited to the grid they were on, it'd be a much more interesting design. |
aquatac
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
13
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Posted - 2015.03.07 16:32:24 -
[1385] - Quote
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
i hav'nt talked about some personal - Cloaky F.. is a usual Term for a special Kind of activity ingame....
if someone felt hiself personal affected i kindest want to sorry about this.
i agree that it should'nt be system wide - but it should go more far then just ongrid - maybe something like 1 AU with max Skills.
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Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
470
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Posted - 2015.03.07 16:43:22 -
[1386] - Quote
Holy crap, 68 pages. Haven't been following this one. But anyway,
With the new sov change proposal it sounds to me like the constellation chat that we all close and forget about will become more important as an intel tool. This might allow a one minute delayed local chat or something in null.
Constellation chat will be where it's at.
As for afk cloaking, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.
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Lunarstorm95
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Fatal Ascension
28
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Posted - 2015.03.07 18:35:27 -
[1387] - Quote
To make this short and quick, i feel cloaks should take a percent of cap usage over time so it burns caps while cloaked and while cloaked all cap regen is removed.
This allows bombers to keep their role of bombing and torping since neither takes cap to do. And would remove the cloaking in a afk rifter and go to work.
I like to point out how alot of AFK cloakers like to say "just form a standing fleet!?" as their defense.
Id also like to point out that this game is about balance
What is balanced about a 500k ship with a 4m mod able to threaten and 1b ship and force a full fleet just to maintain daily life in null.
Another option to further reduce the effect of the nerf is make it a sov upgrade. When installed it forces all cloak mods to take on this effect of cap percent requirement to activate cloak. And give the sov upgrade a selector option to only effect certain people "people not in alliance or certain standing kinda like fleet adverts"
This prevents this in low sec and WHs where i feel this game style is good and perfectly suitable. And give another reason to hold sov. Which at this time isn't really apealling at this time.
GÇ£You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.GÇ¥
GÇò Robert A. Heinlein
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."
GÇò Confucius-á
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Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
117
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Posted - 2015.03.07 19:07:00 -
[1388] - Quote
so fozzie drops strong hint that the problem is not a problem when you don't know afk cloaky is in the system....they are going to remove instant local.
@1h 12 m https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=warning&l=https%3a%2f%2fm.soundcloud.com%2feve-down-under%2feve-down-under-episode-97-060315&domain=soundcloud.com
Je suis charlie
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aquatac
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
14
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Posted - 2015.03.07 19:13:57 -
[1389] - Quote
well then i wish fozzy a lot fun with this game - i'm out then |
Harry Saq
Blueprint Haus Get Off My Lawn
68
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Posted - 2015.03.07 19:16:06 -
[1390] - Quote
Assets in space should be at risk, cloaking should have a cost and be scannable, delayed local would make this a requirement, otherwise cloaking would go from greifing to broken (and I abuse the crap out of cloaking, but lame is lame).
Harry Saq for CSM X
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Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
313
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Posted - 2015.03.07 19:30:17 -
[1391] - Quote
Ive been saying that all this time. Cloaks are not an issue in wspace. Local channel is the issue. |
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
429
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 19:39:00 -
[1392] - Quote
I love the new CCP love it So much after that just remove Off grid boosting and the game will be .. you know awesome ^^
thank you ccp for taking this path
CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails
.... Open that damn door !!
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Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
118
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Posted - 2015.03.07 20:05:06 -
[1393] - Quote
Irya Boone wrote:I love the new CCP love it So much after that just remove Off grid boosting and the game will be .. you know awesome ^^
thank you ccp for taking this path
same interview; CCP is moving supers to being on grid but non damaging force multipliers GÇô much like enhanced bonus ships. Where they are a few per battle to affect the grid GÇô like ECM bursts, wormhole type effects, in system mobility (like micro jump bridges), etc. - See more at: http://evenews24.com/2015/03/07/eve-2-0-an-economy-of-violence/#sthash.4FjVQ3Ba.dpuf
i'd guess that that will also be the end of off grid boosting
Je suis charlie
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Aram Kachaturian
Verge of Collapse
177
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Posted - 2015.03.07 20:13:48 -
[1394] - Quote
A large part of the mad people posting here avoid to talk about horrendous cloaky ships EHP.
They are talking about the cloakies as press F1 to win ships and deny the actual skills to fly it properly and even harder to gank someone (especially micro jump drive bs) without being uncloaked by stuffs around
Please, we are close to the 70th pages, lets be reasonable from this point.
"A remnant of the time long past.
Wielder of the Flame of Ballin', Ruler of the Monocle Clubhouse, Skymarshal on a Cosmic Level & Owner of the Wisdom of Kings: The French Prince."
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4632
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Posted - 2015.03.07 20:25:21 -
[1395] - Quote
Terraniel Aurelius wrote:1.NIKK'S POINT REGARDING CONSENSUAL PRESENCE IN PVP:Oh, I understand it quite well, actually living in and defending sov everyday, and seeing the consequences of this broken mechanic. What I don't understand is how you seem to be able to grasp some separate pieces of the problem, without being able to comprehend the entire picture. I mean, you are basically making our points for us, and then you draw some crazy left-field conclusion based on unrelated factors and throw in some wild speculation for flavour. At this point, I'm pretty sure you're a troll who is desperately trying to hang on to a way of easily ganking people who try to play the game when you are camping their system for hours in a covops ship. 2.NIKK'S POINT REGARDING CYNO SPOOL-UP:EXPLAINED HERECyno spool up is a terrible idea in that it completely takes away any surprise factor and an extremely important tactical tool. With spool-up , any ship lighting a cyno in a fleet engagement is doomed to get alpha'd off the field. Cyno injection of forces into a battle would be severely hampered. So you can pretty much just say that was a fun idea, but it won't work, so no. After the changes to jump mechanics, we don't need to make it even harder to move around for quick strikes. 3. AFK cloaking is a crappy mechanic. It's as simple as that. It doesn't do anything to make the game more exciting/interesting/engaging. Instead it does the opposite. So it should be changed.
1 You complain about me not being able to comprehend the entire picture. When was the last time you jumped in a cloaked ship, and harassed enemy PvE? While I expect you also have experience in null PvE, as I do, I have yet to see anything from you approaching empathy for the player using a cloak in hostile territory. You cannot maintain game balance, by catering only to the needs on one side of this.
2 You over-simplify, and ignore how players adapt in the process. Off grid cynos are not affected at all, as the spool-up happens unknown to hostile view. Multiple decoy cynos could also be used to draw fire in fleet fights, even when additional ships are not being brought in. Cheap, heavily tanked frigates, they can seem important. Possible variations: To truly make it simple, the spool-up could be linked to having a fitted cloak being present. Alternately, the spool up effect could be tied to a system upgrade.
3 Not all share your views, but I can appreciate wanting a more acceptable mechanic which more players could embrace. The problem of AFK cloaking really comes down to two factors: 1. Expectation that PvE ships cannot toe to toe fight against the hostile, on a 1v1 basis. 2. Expectation of overwhelming force through hot dropping.
Cancel those and we have the answer.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
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Alundil
Isogen 5
879
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Posted - 2015.03.07 21:38:17 -
[1396] - Quote
Rhavas wrote:I'm just going to leave this here: CCP Fozzie on EVE Down Under ShowTake a listen (this bit is around 1:12:00), there's a short but important note on AFK Cloaking. Here's the TLDR: CCP Fozzie wrote:"It's very important that it be possible to disrupt people's moneymaking in nullsec. And AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways that we have right now to do so. We're not worried about cloaked ships being overpowered. It turns out that that while a ship is cloaked it does very little DPS ... AFK cloaking is not an issue in wormhole space and there's a very good reason for that." Can we close this thread now? Just finished listening to that cast about an hour ago while I was driving and thought to link it here as well. Well said Fozzie. And good reference link Rhavas.
I'm right behind you
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Alundil
Isogen 5
879
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Posted - 2015.03.07 21:41:20 -
[1397] - Quote
Haywoud Jablomi wrote:I do find that rather amazing. CCP is ok with a broke mechanic. Good bet is that they don't see it as a broken mechanic. As a start.
Would also recommend everyone give that cast a listen as it's quite informative.
I'm right behind you
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GeeShizzle MacCloud
531
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Posted - 2015.03.07 21:42:07 -
[1398] - Quote
Aram Kachaturian wrote: They are talking about the cloakies as press F1 to win ships and deny the actual skills to fly it properly and even harder to gank someone (especially micro jump drive bs) without being uncloaked by stuffs around
Please, we are close to the 70th pages, lets be reasonable from this point.
if by press "F1 to win" ships you mean also the F1 to light cyno, then yes i agree and it should be toned down but not with a sledge hammer, just proportionately.
i would agree on the front of coordinated bombing that it needs some balance done, CCP fozzie did point out that deleting fleet warping would be a potential avenue, as while it doesnt "fix" the symptom, it actually goes after the root cause in a more targeted way.
although deleting fleet warps was not something id personally considered, i did propose something that would cause a similar issue for bombers that essentially would require an FC to approach the problem in the same direction, and in the process also make bombing more risky, and add precious seconds to bombing a fleet along with a greatly increased level of risk.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5159533#post5159533
Quote:Imagine when warping a squad/wing/fleet when fleet members are cloaked those fleet members that are cloaked do not warp or land in a randomised location on landing but all land exactly on top of each other in the central point of that sphere. When they decloak on top of each other (due to someone manually decloaking in order to bomb) they all immediately bump on landing scattering their direction and screwing with their ability to both bomb in the same direction and re-align to warp out.
This would mean fleet/wing/squad warping bombers to bomb on landing would be a somewhat suicidal method for bombers, or would require bomber squads to deblob cloaked before re-aligning to bomb (and therefore incur a subsequent realignment penalty to warp out). FC's would require another method to pull off a bomber run like requiring a bomber fc/alt/helper to put a cloaked ship in a danger-close position to hostiles to be a warp to point for bombers to individually warp (and therefore not bump) and complete a successful bomber run.
This would add a high degree of pilot skill, finesse, time to prep and a moderate amount of danger in order to achieve a ninja like bombing run. |
Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
313
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 22:19:21 -
[1399] - Quote
Alundil wrote:Haywoud Jablomi wrote:I do find that rather amazing. CCP is ok with a broke mechanic. Good bet is that they don't see it as a broken mechanic. As a start. Would also recommend everyone give that cast a listen as it's quite informative.
Its funny when people think something is broken because it counters their gameplay. This game is all about counters. People say ECM is broken, bit it does what it is supposed to do. Cloaking works fine. Its not broken. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3199
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Posted - 2015.03.07 22:42:58 -
[1400] - Quote
Maybe just for cloaked ships. There are several options.
A covert ops ship does not show in local, until the pilot talks in local
-or-
A ship fitted with a covert ops cloak does not show in local
-or-
A cloaked ship does not show in local, and gets a 10 second grace period upon entering system.
-or-
Any ship that does nothing for 30 minutes is removed from the local channel.
Note that these rules could be empire wide, not just limited to null.
Also: the new sleepers could start to be able to find cloaked ships. They warp in at 50, then over a minute close in on the cloaked ship. If you are not afk, you have plenty of time to move off. Otherwise, you get de-cloaked.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2579
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Posted - 2015.03.08 00:00:43 -
[1401] - Quote
So it took 1 year and 10 months for CCP/ISD after the lock to realize my thread was actually a good idea.
Good job guys.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Grasor
Great White North Productions Northern Associates.
2
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Posted - 2015.03.08 04:04:59 -
[1402] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Grasor wrote: This has nothing to do with local chat. Forget local chat. Even if local chat did not exist and the perp would still be indefinitely cloaked in a system s/he would still be completely undetectable forever. That's a game mechanic that is incongruent with with the basic element of the game. Everyone and everything is fair game - except if your cloaked.
If it wasnt for local he wouldnt spend hours sitting in your system waiting for you to feel safe. this has everything to do with local chat. Reasons why local chat is involved: 1. If it wasn't for local chat's warning about hostiles arriving, players would be relying on their own efforts to be aware of threats. No effort, or not good enough, = kill mail. 2. Local chat persistently reports on the presence of a hostile, so knowing they have a ship in system being operated by a game client is certain. What is not certain, is whether a player is actually paying attention and controlling it. For cyno concerns, it is whether the allied pilots are paying attention and ready. Nothing instills doubts about readiness or attention, like knowing our own limitations in this regard. We know we would have to deal with family, jobs, and the need to sleep. We can't help believing the same about this other player, and that is with an expectation they are trying to be present when they can be. 3. Without local, no AFK cloaking takes place, as how will the victims know to be afraid if local doesn't tell them?
Your reason #1 is ridiculous. This whole debate we are having is me saying cloakers should be, at some point, scannable. Here you are saying local is chat is the problem because without it people would be forced to hunt belligerants. Yet you can't currently hunt cloakers.
Your reason #3 does not apply to the problem of cloaking as a whole. I don't care if you are AFK, if you want to be AFK while floating around in space, be my guest/target. I'm arguing that cloaking should not give the cloaker an indefinite period to be immune to being tracked down.
This is not the first time I've had to re-explain this to you. If you aren't going to both read and comprehend my arguments then please stop quoting me and throwing up more of your anti-local chat propaganda. Again, local chat is not the problem with being immune to hunting while cloaked, the cloaking mechanics that allow it are the cause of that problem.
Don't look at my killboards...you won't like what you see...I know I sure as heck don't!
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Terraniel Aurelius
High Flyers The Kadeshi
24
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Posted - 2015.03.08 05:57:28 -
[1403] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: The problem of AFK cloaking really comes down to two factors: 1. Expectation that PvE ships cannot toe to toe fight against the hostile, on a 1v1 basis. 2. Expectation of overwhelming force through hot dropping.
Cancel those and we have the answer.
1. Current state of affairs has shown this to be true. That's why we have different fits for pvp and pve, and why we use select damage types and tactics when hunting ratters.
2. If you don't expect it, you're gonna have a bad day.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
122
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Posted - 2015.03.08 06:17:57 -
[1404] - Quote
I don't know much about null but it seems broken that I can spend a few days training an alt to fit a cyno and a cloak then go sit that alt in someone's money system 24/7 as a strategic tool to disrupt their income. It doesn't matter if I only light a cyno once a week or only touch that character once a day because I can hold the potential of an attack over the locals' head 24/7 in a cheap, untouchable ship.
If you removed local wouldn't null just be wormhole space with less money and more risk? |
Rhavas
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
410
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Posted - 2015.03.08 06:25:44 -
[1405] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:It seems broken that I can ... [sit] in someone's money system 24/7 as a strategic tool to disrupt their income
Translation: I have a right to this ISK. I shouldn't have to work for it if I get sov, declaring it "my money system" and worthy of absolute safety.
In wormholes, you declare a system "our money system" by kicking everyone else out, putting a POS on every damn moon in the system, scanning constantly, having bubbles and multi-sebo Interceptors constantly on hand to grab crashers and frigates, and doing almost everything in your home in a group for cross-support and reaction. You also sit in space unless you're logged off.
THAT is how you own a system.
CCP Fozzie wrote:"It's very important that it be possible to disrupt people's moneymaking in nullsec. And AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways that we have right now to do so."
Author of Interstellar Privateer
Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
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Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
313
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Posted - 2015.03.08 08:56:59 -
[1406] - Quote
I hope they remove local from kspace. Nullsec needs more risk. They have plenty of rewards already. Respawning anomalies within minutes? I wish I had that in my wormhole. when I exhaust my system of resources I have to jump into other systems. I definitely dont complain about it either. Its what we do with what we have. Yet I hear nullsec babies cry that they dont make enough isk in 1 system and are so scared of 1 guy in a cloaked ship that they wont undock.
When CCP removes local, you nullsec babies wont know if someone is cloaked in your system. Then you will have to decide. Stay docked or undock and actually take a risk to make some isk. When I log into my wormhole, I expect there to be several proteus cloaked up next to me ready to eat my ship alIve. It doesnt stop me from leaving my pos though. Im not scared of internet pixel spaceships. Nullbears need to learn to not be scared. Its just a video game.
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1617
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Posted - 2015.03.08 09:26:24 -
[1407] - Quote
Delegate wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:A suggestion was made, by a respected individual, who shall remain nameless for opsec reasons, that was like a light bulb moment. Made a similar suggestion some pages back. The proviso was that cloaked ship interacts with local as in w-space, i.e. see only those that spoke in his presence.
There are differences, working like wormhole space would not be ideal, talking in local whilst cloaked, would feed the griefing paranoia, and defeat the purpose of the change. The proposal above is quite clear, whilst a covert ops or other cloak is on, the ship and pilot completely disappears from all intel sources including Local. This means that the pilot DOES appear in local when Jumping into system, even if holding gate cloak, or anywhere in system when disabling cloak, giving valuable seconds of warning for active scouts to realise a cloaky has come into system or before a potential incoming cyno. Even if the cloaky ship is off grid activating one, for a recon bounce attack to a bookmark. If you are aware that a cloaky came in from your scouts on gate, then an identified character suddenly appearing means "get out now" ships incoming.
It is not much of a warning but enough to give active aware pilots a chance to escape.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Belinda HwaFang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
44
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Posted - 2015.03.08 09:57:33 -
[1408] - Quote
I would 100% support a change to local in nullsec and just like Fozzie says, "it isn't a problem in w-space". -- Fang |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
122
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Posted - 2015.03.08 10:40:43 -
[1409] - Quote
Rhavas wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:It seems broken that I can ... [sit] in someone's money system 24/7 as a strategic tool to disrupt their income Translation: I have a right to this ISK. I shouldn't have to work for it if I get sov, declaring it "my money system" and worthy of absolute safety. In wormholes, you declare a system "our money system" by kicking everyone else out, putting a POS on every damn moon in the system, scanning constantly, having bubbles and multi-sebo Interceptors constantly on hand to grab crashers and frigates, and doing almost everything in your home in a group for cross-support and reaction. You also sit in space unless you're logged off. THAT is how you own a system. CCP Fozzie wrote:"It's very important that it be possible to disrupt people's moneymaking in nullsec. And AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways that we have right now to do so."
I guess I just don't see the logic in being able to increase someone else's risk factor while assuming none myself.
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1617
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Posted - 2015.03.08 11:25:51 -
[1410] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Rhavas wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:It seems broken that I can ... [sit] in someone's money system 24/7 as a strategic tool to disrupt their income Translation: I have a right to this ISK. I shouldn't have to work for it if I get sov, declaring it "my money system" and worthy of absolute safety. In wormholes, you declare a system "our money system" by kicking everyone else out, putting a POS on every damn moon in the system, scanning constantly, having bubbles and multi-sebo Interceptors constantly on hand to grab crashers and frigates, and doing almost everything in your home in a group for cross-support and reaction. You also sit in space unless you're logged off. THAT is how you own a system. CCP Fozzie wrote:"It's very important that it be possible to disrupt people's moneymaking in nullsec. And AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways that we have right now to do so." I guess I just don't see the logic in being able to increase someone else's risk factor while assuming none myself. I just proposed a solution, that eliminated AFK cloaky campers, gave you an improved intelligence tool, and enabled you to get out of the station, whilst giving you better abilities to avoid hot drops. Whilst allowing an active hostile to disrupt activities.
Did you miss it?
Think of it as the crocodile under the water, as opposed to the lion at the watering hole. Both dangerous, but it is only the lion that causes such consternation, as you see it there, in the bushes, all the time. You are just not sure exactly where it will strike. The crocodile, you only see as it comes to the surface, and the alert can still get away.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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