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Ad'Malum IV
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.01.10 21:51:17 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all,
as the title says, beams vs rails? which do you prefer and why?
Thx, |
Tsukino Stareine
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
821
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Posted - 2015.01.10 22:07:34 -
[2] - Quote
depends on size, ship your flying and what you're shooting. |
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
320
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Posted - 2015.01.10 22:46:32 -
[3] - Quote
Lasers look cooler, their ammo doesn't take up half your cargo space and switching to different ammo types is instant. Amarr Victor!
(unless I absolutely need that little bit of extra range) |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5392
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Posted - 2015.01.11 00:33:37 -
[4] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:depends on size, ship your flying and what you're shooting.
This. Mainly the latter, it is situational.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8400
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Posted - 2015.01.11 00:42:20 -
[5] - Quote
LAZORS are fantastic but need good capacitor and gunnery skills and are locked to em/thermal damage.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Marsan
252
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Posted - 2015.01.11 01:06:54 -
[6] - Quote
Honestly they are the worst 2 weapon systems in the game. They are limited in their damage types while range and damage aren't better than projectile, missiles, and drones.
Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
251
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Posted - 2015.01.11 05:48:05 -
[7] - Quote
It's kind of hard to answer that question without knowing what you are trying to do. For PvE it is definately more important to match damage type with resist holes in the faction that you are going up against's tank. So against guristas or serpentis you'd want rails and sansha or bloodraiders you'd want lazors.
If you are going up against rats with omni tanks like sleepers I think lazors are a lot of fun. The instant reload time and wide selection of ranges makes shooting more interactive. Also waiting for your guns to reload is a little bit of a kill-joy.
Another thing to consider is that with T2 ammo and the optimal bonus of the Apocalypse you can use pulse lazors at beam range.
To me it seems if resist holes are not part of the equation it mostly comes down to looking at the ships that use those weapons are used on and see which you'd rather fly. Rails open up 2 different races to you where Lazors open only 1 but you'd have to train up missiles and drones as well on top of having 2 races of ships to train up as well as both armor and shield tanking with the rails. |
Koebmand
Silverflames
11
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Posted - 2015.01.12 13:55:15 -
[8] - Quote
Hybrids are just as locked in damage as lasers are. I don't do anything where my enemies are so strictly one sided resists that it matters which I pick, in that regard.
I use drones, so guns was just some secondary DPS to apply, I used lasers so I didn't need to carry ammo plus they look cooler . Possible with a set of faction multifrequency to swap into for extra damage on close large ships.
Now I use missiles, not all those range issues, just shoot at the rats where ever they start and until they are all dead, on the other hand even far away elite frigs takes forever to missile to dead where large guns pretty much one-shot them.
*EDIT* Been using all sizes, including small lasers on cruiser to handle frigs without having to reduce main DPS from large drones. |
Solecist Project
All Glory to the HypnoBoobs
15762
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Posted - 2015.01.12 15:13:08 -
[9] - Quote
It's really more a question of which being better under what circumstances.
Ralph King-Griffin > **** you sol, years, ****ing years since thats happend
The Cuppy Cake Song <3 <3 <3 <3 :D :D :D
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2053
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Posted - 2015.01.12 15:54:24 -
[10] - Quote
Since flying a railgun Coercer or a beam laser Cormorant are equally bad ideas, rails and beams are sort of "bound" to their ships. Same goes for bigger versions of rails/beams. Instead, it falls to "when is it appropriate to use the ships that use these weapons"?
Railguns:
- Have very long range. Even more because of Spike ammo for T2 railguns, and because some railgun ships receive multiple range bonuses (Cormorant, Harpy, Eagle).
- Apply OK damage in the form of a Kinetic/Thermal mix.
- Have poor tracking, and are rather bad when a target gets too close.
- Take 5 seconds to swap between ammo types. Longer range ammo types do less damage, more slanted towards Kinetic, and use less cap.
- Are typically fit on shield-tanked (Caldari) ships. Some exceptions for Gallente ships.
Beam lasers:
- Have medium range. They range from just below T2 pulse lasers with Scorch, to mid-railgun range.
- Apply great damage in an EM/Thermal mix.
- Have the best tracking of the long range weapons, and with a little bit of assistance (tracking bonus, webs, etc) can hit same-size targets fairly up close.
- Instantly swap between ammo types. Longer range ammo types do less damage, more slanted towards Thermal, and use less cap the closer they are to Standard ammo.
- Are typically fit on armor-tanked (Amarr) ships.
They both benefit enormously from range bonuses, as the longer range means you can either hit farther away, or indirectly increase your damage since you can use shorter range ammos.
Which are "better"? Neither. It depends on your situation.
ISD LackOfFaith
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
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Marsan
252
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Posted - 2015.01.12 18:16:16 -
[11] - Quote
The problem is that long ranged weapons are not horribly useful in either PVE or PVP. Sure there are null sec doctrine fits which call for range, but newbies aren't likely to be able to fly those fits any way. Yes with a battleship and microjump drives you can kite rather effectively at range, but you are still better off using drones or missiles for that.
Another major issue with beams is that you are stuck with Amarr ships which are not widely in use, and rarely are the best ship for any given job. (Okay yes the Curse, some of the Amarr BS, and the Sasha Nightmare, but these are out of the reach of a new player) Rails are at least are in use for multiple races (Cal/Gal), but I'm hard pressed to think of a Gal/Cal that is rail focused that sees wide spread use. The Cal ships in wide use are missile ships, and the Gal ships in wide use are drone ships that at best fit rails as an after thought.
Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2054
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Posted - 2015.01.12 19:45:27 -
[12] - Quote
Marsan wrote: Another major issue with beams is that you are stuck with Amarr ships which are not widely in use, and rarely are the best ship for any given job. (Okay yes the Curse, some of the Amarr BS, and the Sasha Nightmare, but these are out of the reach of a new player)
Purifier, Malediction, Omen, Maller, Augoror, Pilgrim, Curse, Guardian, Prophecy, Damnation, Oracle, and Armageddon all make appearances in small-scale PvP. Armageddon, Abaddon and Paladin appear in high-end PvE sometimes too. Most of those are not laser ships because, yes, lasers have niche uses. They have pretty obvious vulnerabilities (armor ships, tracking disruptors, capacitor drains) so they're not as multi-purpose as, for example, drones. When used in the right circumstance, though, I've seen ships both from those mentioned above and others not mentioned perform admirably. That includes using beam lasers.
Historically, laser ships (especially battleships) have seen a large amount of usage. The current metagame is a tough place for them, though.
Marsan wrote: Rails are at least are in use for multiple races (Cal/Gal), but I'm hard pressed to think of a Gal/Cal that is rail focused that sees wide spread use. The Cal ships in wide use are missile ships, and the Gal ships in wide use are drone ships that at best fit rails as an after thought.
Rail Tengu is one of the current dominant fleet metas (on Reddit here). Railguns make an appearance in small-gang PvP on Merlins, Atrons, Tristans, Cormorants, Comets, Thoraxes, and Nagas. They make an appearance in PvE on the Megathron and its hull variants. They are far from unused.
"Not as [popular / convenient / easy / easy to train] as [current best possible option]" is the story of balancing in Eve (and almost every other MMO out there). Since balancing a game to the point where everything sees use is hard/impossible, there will always be a "most effective" way to do stuff, which will change over time as rebalancing happens. Only using what is "best" is aiming for a moving target that may rapidly change from under you.
An alternative to chasing the meta is to train and fly whatever you find fun. Almost everything "works" to some degree. You might not be as effective, and might get rejected by some groups who rely on fleet uniformity, but on the upside you're more "nerf-proof" and are hopefully having more fun.
Anyway, that's my 0.02 ISK take on it. Hope it helps!
ISD LackOfFaith
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4519
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Posted - 2015.01.12 20:08:56 -
[13] - Quote
Medium beams (and pulses) are poor, IMHO.
Rails are really only best when used at their range limit. Inside that range, just about everything else can match or outperform rails.
I like tachyon beam lasers too. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5405
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Posted - 2015.01.12 21:34:07 -
[14] - Quote
I love my scram and web.
And then let the rest of the fleet worry about the actual shooting.
p.s. Thanks CCP for the fireworks, my stash was running low. I still think that anybody that is about to die to a fleet, at least should die with a smile on their face so I shoot fireworks at them.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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