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Immersed Roflsausage
DN-Group
0
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Posted - 2015.01.13 00:16:37 -
[1] - Quote
So long story short, i was silly enough to lose 500m to Goonwaffe or whatever, after they required a 'security deposit' for me to join. So aside from the 'we dont care', 'a fool and his cash are easily parted' and all that other fun stuff that I am already aware of, what is actual position on all this stuff?
There does seem to be a lot about these people openly scamming new players and they seem to just operate like that as the norm, so is this just a game mechanic that is allowed?
Clarification appreciated. |
Paranoid Loyd
3496
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 00:21:01 -
[2] - Quote
Please refer to section 10 paragraph 2.
http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/communityassets/pdf/EVE-Online-New-Pilot-FAQ.pdf
While you are at it please review section 7 as well.
Also, no offense but your name is just screaming please scam me as I am immature and foolish.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Eldwinn
SomeWhat SophiSticateD Shadow Cartel
272
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 00:24:37 -
[3] - Quote
Related, http://www.themittani.com/news/goblins-ultimatum . |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
255
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 00:32:45 -
[4] - Quote
Scamming is not only allowed in this game it is encouraged. Chalk this one up as experience and learn. |
Kellie Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin
7627
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 00:36:56 -
[5] - Quote
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:So long story short, i was silly enough to lose 500m to Goonwaffe or whatever, after they required a 'security deposit' for me to join. No sweat it.
Everyone for new pilot all way to big veteran make this derps sometime.
Just ask my sister.
Noob Alt | Special Dusette | Silly Robot Arm
Collect all Dusette Action Figures (Now available in Thukker Tribe Edition)
Generic Edition | Catcember Edition
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Eldwinn
SomeWhat SophiSticateD Shadow Cartel
273
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 00:45:45 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah do not worry about it man. However I am currently offering some anti-scamming tips and tricks of the trade. Just a simple one time payment of 1bil. Send directly to me. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5408
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 00:53:12 -
[7] - Quote
Scams using IN GAME items and monetary funds....perfectly legal.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4354
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 01:17:35 -
[8] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Scams using IN GAME items and monetary funds....perfectly legal.
This, except a couple things.
- You cannot impersonate another player, corp or alliance to scam (e.g. you cannot say 'I'm Chribba's alt, you can send the billion ISK you owe him to me') - You can steal PLEX players already own via scams. You cannot encourage them to purchase PLEX in order to steal those. (This is to protect CCP from credit card fraud). - Occasionally, CCP will add specific rules around events. Most notably you were not allowed to scam people by tricking them into believing their funds were going toward the 'Plex 4 Good' charity appeal when that last happened, as that was basically (indirectly) stealing from an RL charity.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Forest Archer
Pandora Sphere This Is How We Roll
171
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Posted - 2015.01.13 02:44:11 -
[9] - Quote
Also just to add while scamming is allowed it is not allowed to be done in starter systems and neither is baiting, but otherwise it does not matter the age of the character or account.
Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if you're in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up.
Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1323
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 04:42:04 -
[10] - Quote
Here is some light reading on scamming for you. |
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4358
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 04:43:36 -
[11] - Quote
OP - Consider this an expensive lesson in how you too can make ISK in future.
You may not have intended to purchase a guide to scamming effectively, but you've got it now. Why let it go to waste?
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Memphis Baas
62
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Posted - 2015.01.13 05:01:30 -
[12] - Quote
The loss of ISK is just an underline to the fact that you are joining these corps the wrong way.
With some of the big alliances you have to be a member of their forums before you can join them in whatever games they are playing (not just EVE). With others, recruitment is closed, and your only way in is to join a tributary corp. that's used by the main as a way to weed out undesirables. And even then, you're possibly a spy (you don't really bring anything useful to the group).
Cliques are cliques, rather hard to get in. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4358
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 05:14:47 -
[13] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:The loss of ISK is just an underline to the fact that you are joining these corps the wrong way.
With some of the big alliances you have to be a member of their forums before you can join them in whatever games they are playing (not just EVE). With others, recruitment is closed, and your only way in is to join a tributary corp. that's used by the main as a way to weed out undesirables. And even then, you're possibly a spy (you don't really bring anything useful to the group).
Cliques are cliques, rather hard to get in.
Goons in particular are an outside-EVE community. They mostly do not accept any requests from existing EVE players to join.
Other alliances recruit in quite different ways - Russian language chat channels, offering to recruit people that impress them by fighting against them, open recruitment with trial periods, and other methods altogether.
If you are seeking a corporation or alliance, research them first. You should do this either to hunt for weaknesses in the corp you can exploit (if you intend to be a disloyal member) or for tricks they may be intending to pull on you (if you intend to be loyal).
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Immersed Roflsausage
DN-Group
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 19:01:01 -
[14] - Quote
Some interesting points raised thanks. An expected cross section of the EVE population represented in this thread, and by that I mean the high proportion of sociopaths vs. normal people.
I happen to think that mild sociopathic behavior is nurtured by the mechanics of the game, in those people that would otherwise be decent people in real life, due to the pressures inherent in the artificial society and the anonymity provided by it.
For example, the ad hominem remark about my name indicating that I am immature and screaming to be scammed is just totally unnecessary, and frankly weird to me, but hey, this is the internet and I guess that is mild compared to some other pits on the net like 4chan. I hear often enough that you cant be a carebear in EVE and I totally get that, but reject it at the same time.
I understand the position of CCP, and that they wish to create a free space to allow emergent behavior, but what I do notice is a lack of that thing we have in real life, and that is accountability and consequence, there are no police there are no regulatory bodies that protect customers etc. and so they are creating all of the conditions for criminals to thrive but bring no conditions designed to impose consequence.
The only consequence that can ever arise is an alliance of the 'good' people rising up against the bad in a war, which I do find extremely fascinating as a thought and would love to see it happen and be a part of it!
I do also think that CCP is treading a fine line with encouraging real world fraud. They create the conditions under which a new player is likely to want to buy PLEX and so ISK to enhance their game experience and quite simply create dopamine releasing scenarios, it's MMORPG business model 101. They then allow / encourage in game behavior for players to steal ISK from those most vulnerable, who also happen to be those most likely to have spent money.
If CCP have to admit that they do not successfully police all of the real world ISK selling activity, then their failure to prohibit newbie scams (like the fake recruitment scam) is borderline contributing to fraudulent activity, real world. |
Jasmin Molotov
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 19:16:15 -
[15] - Quote
You seem to have a few misconceptions about the game and the community.
Firstly, in no way is actual crime encouraged or tolerated by CCP. You can get scammed for in-game currency but any scam involving real life currency or assets is strictly forbidden and will have appropriate consequences if it is reported. Encouraging newbies to buy PLEX is a grey area and decided on a case by case basis (I'll be corrected if i'm wrong on this).
Secondly, the reference to your character name was an observation of fact rather than an ad hominem and you should take it as well meant advice.
Thirdly, you should be careful with the word 'sociopathic'. It has a precise medical definition and you would be hard pressed to shoehorn most of the behavior you take offense with into that label.
P.S.: You are also wrong about 'not being able to be a carebear' in EVE. Sure you can, you just have to accept being the metaphorical gazelle rather than the cheetah. Keep a low profile and a watchful eye and you will be fine. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
438
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 19:19:17 -
[16] - Quote
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:Some interesting points raised thanks. An expected cross section of the EVE population represented in this thread, and by that I mean the high proportion of sociopaths vs. normal people.
I happen to think that mild sociopathic behavior is nurtured by the mechanics of the game, in those people that would otherwise be decent people in real life, due to the pressures inherent in the artificial society and the anonymity provided by it. This is an internet game about building, and then exploding spaceships. Many of us treat it as just such and therefore you will find the "sociopath" accusation does not go over well. This is a game to explicitly escape from real word consequences and allow the indulgence of behaviours that are not tolerated in real-life. Conflating the two - the game and the real-world - is not a healthy way to approach the game.
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:I understand the position of CCP, and that they wish to create a free space to allow emergent behavior, but what I do notice is a lack of that thing we have in real life, and that is accountability and consequence, there are no police there are no regulatory bodies that protect customers etc. and so they are creating all of the conditions for criminals to thrive but bring no conditions designed to impose consequence.
The only consequence that can ever arise is an alliance of the 'good' people rising up against the bad in a war, which I do find extremely fascinating as a thought and would love to see it happen and be a part of it! The only real and lasting consequences in this game are the ones other players can give to you. We all are accountable to our reputations and what you do will follow you around. Sure, you can start a new character, but aside from that, other players will remember what you say and what you do. This makes the game an interesting experience, unlike all other MMOs on the market.
Besides, rising up and defeating the "evil-doers" in the universe makes for good space content.
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:I do also think that CCP is treading a fine line with encouraging real world fraud. They create the conditions under which a new player is likely to want to buy PLEX and so ISK to enhance their game experience and quite simply create dopamine releasing scenarios, it's MMORPG business model 101. They then allow / encourage in game behavior for players to steal ISK from those most vulnerable, who also happen to be those most likely to have spent money.
If CCP have to admit that they do not successfully police all of the real world ISK selling activity, then their failure to prohibit newbie scams (like the fake recruitment scam) is borderline contributing to fraudulent activity, real world. The only person disliked more than a "space" psychologist is perhaps the "space" lawyer. CCP has a set of rules, well enumerated in the EULA and elsewhere. If you do not agree to them, don't play the game. If you think they are illegal or injurious to you, then file a lawsuit, but spouting off your legal opinions in the forums is not especially productive.
Scams have a long and storied place in the 11-year history of Eve. It sucks that you fell for one, but either dust yourself and, learn from it and move on, or quit Eve leaving a "fell for recruitment scam" in the reason when they ask. If you stick with the game it won't belong before you might be losing 500M ISK ships on occasion and laughing about it, or if you can't get over the $10 loss, then quit and make it clear why.
Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
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Orlacc
713
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 19:30:12 -
[17] - Quote
Sorry bub but Isk is not real world. Also sociopath is no longer a valid nomenclature. Check your DSM V. Just plain "psychopath" will do.
There are other games where one can be an elf.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Paranoid Loyd
3499
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 19:44:34 -
[18] - Quote
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:For example, the ad hominem remark about my name indicating that I am immature and screaming to be scammed is just totally unnecessary Confirming I am a sociopath because I advised you your name would make me want to scam you.
It's called an opinion, I may be wrong but I would like my fellow posters to tell me of the names posted in this thread, which one you would choose to target first?
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
Quanah Comanche
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 19:47:49 -
[19] - Quote
OP is a space lawyer and knows of what he speaks! CCP has no idea what they are getting onto here! Eat the naive.... |
KiaphasKain
Hedion University Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 19:51:45 -
[20] - Quote
I am gonna take a wild guess and say that everyone who is new to EVE has heard what it is about. The stuff that gets the press is the scamming, the alleged sociopathic behaviour. Or even if you didnt know, you will know the second you come to the forums.
Here is the really awesome thing about this game... Bad **** can and will happen to you. People will scam you, kill you and take absolute joy in your rage, frustration and tears.
Here is the absolute best thing about this game... You can fight back. You can get revenge. You can kill them until they are afraid to leave their home station. There is hundreds of perfectly legal things to do to get back at them.
Now you can be like the typical whiner. Yada Yada skill points. Yada Yada scamming. Yada Yada bumped. Yada Yada Ganked.
Or you can put on your big girl panties and get over it. Or better yet, get even.
Your choice. |
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KiaphasKain
Hedion University Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 20:00:33 -
[21] - Quote
P.S. You know what I dislike most about posts like these? I am also a new player, or rather I would rather say I have about 1 month playtime over a year period... I find the idea that some people want CCP to hold my hand and protect me to be especially insulting. Like I cant protect myself, that I need my mommy and daddy to watch over me. No thanks, if I wanted that I would go play WoW, SWTOR or whatever.
Stop trying to change my game for me.
/rant over
Apolagies to everyone else, I will stop posting now. |
Dracones
Tarsis Inc
35
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 20:05:16 -
[22] - Quote
Different games have different rules and expectations to them. If I log into Counterstrike I don't complain I got killed by another player with a sniper rifle. That's just the nature of the game that other players will try to kill you with sniper rifles while you run around with a cheap SMG.
Eve as a game models a brutal universe full of large political alliances and capitalism run amok. There's a guy hanging out around every asteroid looking to sell you mining barge real cheap that fell off the back of a freighter. How players act in Eve has no relationship to how they are in real life.
It's a brutal stark world where pretty much anything goes and it has its own extremely detailed and well developed economy and ecosystem that actually runs really well. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8492
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 20:06:01 -
[23] - Quote
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:Some interesting points raised thanks. An expected cross section of the EVE population represented in this thread, and by that I mean the high proportion of sociopaths vs. normal people.
I happen to think that mild sociopathic behavior is nurtured by the mechanics of the game, in those people that would otherwise be decent people in real life, due to the pressures inherent in the artificial society and the anonymity provided by it.
For example, the ad hominem remark about my name indicating that I am immature and screaming to be scammed is just totally unnecessary, and frankly weird to me, but hey, this is the internet and I guess that is mild compared to some other pits on the net like 4chan. I hear often enough that you cant be a carebear in EVE and I totally get that, but reject it at the same time.
I understand the position of CCP, and that they wish to create a free space to allow emergent behavior, but what I do notice is a lack of that thing we have in real life, and that is accountability and consequence, there are no police there are no regulatory bodies that protect customers etc. and so they are creating all of the conditions for criminals to thrive but bring no conditions designed to impose consequence.
The only consequence that can ever arise is an alliance of the 'good' people rising up against the bad in a war, which I do find extremely fascinating as a thought and would love to see it happen and be a part of it!
I do also think that CCP is treading a fine line with encouraging real world fraud. They create the conditions under which a new player is likely to want to buy PLEX and so ISK to enhance their game experience and quite simply create dopamine releasing scenarios, it's MMORPG business model 101. They then allow / encourage in game behavior for players to steal ISK from those most vulnerable, who also happen to be those most likely to have spent money.
If CCP have to admit that they do not successfully police all of the real world ISK selling activity, then their failure to prohibit newbie scams (like the fake recruitment scam) is borderline contributing to fraudulent activity, real world. You sir should take care not to abuse the altruists amongst us, they are all that's between the rest of us and you.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4376
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 20:20:41 -
[24] - Quote
Do you accuse people of being sociopaths when they use cunning to SLAUGHTER ALL OF YOUR PAWNS when you are playing them at chess? Do you then accuse them of regicide when they take your queen and king?
Of course not.
Don't accuse people of being sociopaths for using cunning to blow up or steal your internet spaceships. Be vigilant against the possibility of it happening. The most fun fight I have had in EVE was one I lost to a cunning trap from one of your 'sociopaths'.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Tsukino Stareine
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
839
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 20:25:01 -
[25] - Quote
25th post to realise this was a troll?
Comments on the name itself but nobody realised that it was the big clue? |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5422
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 20:38:48 -
[26] - Quote
Jasmin Molotov wrote:You seem to have a few misconceptions about the game and the community.
Firstly, in no way is actual crime encouraged or tolerated by CCP. You can get scammed for in-game currency but any scam involving real life currency or assets is strictly forbidden and will have appropriate consequences if it is reported. Encouraging newbies to buy PLEX is a grey area and decided on a case by case basis (I'll be corrected if i'm wrong on this).
As sabriz already pointed out:
A. If a new player is stupid enough to dump money in the game for in game currency and then don't do research and fall for an obvious scam that is as old as EVE is...
Perfectly legal, it was all the choice of said character.
B. If a new player is "forced" to buy a PLEX so he can get the ISK to join and then is scammed. That isn't as you are "forcing" someone to use RL assets (in this case RL currenty).
So:
A recruiter saying: "Give us 500mil and you can join" > Legal
A recruiter saying: "Grab your CC, buy a PLEX and give us the ISK from it" > Not legal.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5422
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 20:39:45 -
[27] - Quote
Immersed Roflsausage wrote:Some interesting points raised thanks. An expected cross section of the EVE population represented in this thread, and by that I mean the high proportion of sociopaths vs. normal people.
I happen to think that mild sociopathic behavior is nurtured by the mechanics of the game, in those people that would otherwise be decent people in real life, due to the pressures inherent in the artificial society and the anonymity provided by it.
For example, the ad hominem remark about my name indicating that I am immature and screaming to be scammed is just totally unnecessary, and frankly weird to me, but hey, this is the internet and I guess that is mild compared to some other pits on the net like 4chan. I hear often enough that you cant be a carebear in EVE and I totally get that, but reject it at the same time.
I understand the position of CCP, and that they wish to create a free space to allow emergent behavior, but what I do notice is a lack of that thing we have in real life, and that is accountability and consequence, there are no police there are no regulatory bodies that protect customers etc. and so they are creating all of the conditions for criminals to thrive but bring no conditions designed to impose consequence.
The only consequence that can ever arise is an alliance of the 'good' people rising up against the bad in a war, which I do find extremely fascinating as a thought and would love to see it happen and be a part of it!
I do also think that CCP is treading a fine line with encouraging real world fraud. They create the conditions under which a new player is likely to want to buy PLEX and so ISK to enhance their game experience and quite simply create dopamine releasing scenarios, it's MMORPG business model 101. They then allow / encourage in game behavior for players to steal ISK from those most vulnerable, who also happen to be those most likely to have spent money.
If CCP have to admit that they do not successfully police all of the real world ISK selling activity, then their failure to prohibit newbie scams (like the fake recruitment scam) is borderline contributing to fraudulent activity, real world.
Lol
There is an ingame police...and it works exactly like RL police.
No police officer is going to protect you if some random stranger walks up to you and ask you for 100 Dollar so you can join their secret society...
All you say with this post:
WAAAH, I'M MAD CAUSE SOMEONE SCAMMED ME. CCP PROTECT ME!!!!11!!!11!
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
|
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5422
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 20:43:40 -
[28] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Immersed Roflsausage wrote:For example, the ad hominem remark about my name indicating that I am immature and screaming to be scammed is just totally unnecessary Confirming I am a sociopath because I advised you your name would make me want to scam you. It's called an opinion, I may be wrong but I would like my fellow posters to tell me of the names posted in this thread, which one you would choose to target first?
You...so much more to gain from you then from "I can't think of a normal name" who recently was scammed out of 500mil.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5422
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 20:44:45 -
[29] - Quote
Quanah Comanche wrote:OP is a space lawyer and knows of what he speaks! CCP has no idea what they are getting onto here! Eat the naive....
The only (former) space-lawyer I know about can't take booze and likes to dress up as a wizard during a large player meet up in Iceland
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
|
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5422
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 20:46:08 -
[30] - Quote
KiaphasKain wrote:P.S. You know what I dislike most about posts like these? I am also a new player, or rather I would rather say I have about 1 month playtime over a year period... I find the idea that some people want CCP to hold my hand and protect me to be especially insulting. Like I cant protect myself, that I need my mommy and daddy to watch over me. No thanks, if I wanted that I would go play WoW, SWTOR or whatever.
Stop trying to change my game for me.
/rant over
Apolagies to everyone else, I will stop posting now.
Okay, even as an atheist...
Amen Brother...Amen.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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