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Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
677
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:15:08 -
[31] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:
He wasn't avoiding it. He was just using the game mechanics around how CONCORD spawns work.
Please, point me to your source that says that you are NOT allowed to undock with a 15 minute timer...
You can undock with a 15 min criminal timer without Concord getting involved, by undocking in your pod.
If you undock(/or board) in a ship concord comes and shoot you. That seems to me that the mechanic is designed to stop people undocking in a ship with a criminal timer.
Thats just my take on what the game mechanics are designed to do. Only CCP really knows, but since they apparentley banned the guy (shrugs).
What do you think the 15 min criminal timer is designed to do? |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5574
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:17:58 -
[32] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:J'Poll wrote:
He wasn't avoiding it. He was just using the game mechanics around how CONCORD spawns work.
Please, point me to your source that says that you are NOT allowed to undock with a 15 minute timer...
You can undock with a 15 min criminal timer without Concord getting involved, by undocking in your pod. If you undock(/or board) in a ship concord comes and shoot you. That seems to me that the mechanic is designed to stop people undocking in a ship with a criminal timer. Thats just my take on what the game mechanics are designed to do. Only CCP really knows, but since they apparentley banned the guy (shrugs). What do you think the 15 min criminal timer is designed to do?
Uhm...Nope
No NPC other then seekers do pod. This is likely a remnant from the old system where clones had costs and it would be very harsh to be podded and then not being able to play at all for 15 minutes.
The punishment of the timer: Lose any ship you get in space in 15 minutes. If you want to lose it, that's your choice..
If it was designed that you wouldn't be allowed to fly in a ship during that time at all...it would have been coded that you can't board a ship in space / can't undock a ship from a station during that timer. As it clearly is possible, nothing within the rules is preventing you from doing so.
p.s. Unless you are psychic, a covert CCP employee or an alt of the banned person...you have NO idea of the exact reason he was banned. It could be for something completely different.
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Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14526
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:19:21 -
[33] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
I think its there to stop you immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act.
You are wrong. Nothing stops you from jumping into a new ship.
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
However its the 15 min criminal timer that I think was exploited. If it was designed the way I think it was, then the guy clearly exploited the game mechanics. Sadly only CCP really know the thinking behind the mechanic.
So, if its not to stop people re-shipping after committing a criminal act. What do you think the 15 min criminal timer is designed to do?
Its there to punish people who has engaged in a criminal action. Any ship you undock or jump into will be destroyed during that 15 min window. In this case every single ship was destroyed by concord and their response time was exactly the same as normal.
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Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
677
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:20:32 -
[34] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:
REALLY.
A. Free target for all in EVE. B. Garantueed loss of ship to CONCORD.
The timer wouldn't need to be 15 mins for that. If it was designed to work that way there would be no criminal timer, just the concord response and a suspect timer so the other players could shoot you.
Yet whenever you undock/board a ship with a criminal timer concord gets involved. If thats not designed to stop people immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act, then I'm a walrus. |
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
365
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:22:15 -
[35] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:If you undock(/or board) in a ship concord comes and shoot you. That seems to me that the mechanic is designed to stop people undocking in a ship with a criminal timer. If that was the case CCP would have made it impossible to undock in a ship while under a GCC timer
Quote:Thats just my take on what the game mechanics are designed to do. Your take is irrelevant as you correctly stated Quote:Only CCP really knows
Quote: but since they apparentley banned the guy (shrugs). It'd be interesting to see why they banned him.
Quote:What do you think the 15 min criminal timer is designed to do? It's designed to make life difficult for people after gaining a GCC timer, and to give people the opportunity to shoot at helpless criminals who can't escape by virtue of being prevented from warping by Concord.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11312
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:22:43 -
[36] - Quote
Since you all can't find the source, I thought I might post it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2sgqgt/breaking_news_bowhead_hyperdunking_scandal/
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
367
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:36:56 -
[37] - Quote
Going by the reason given there CCP are using the Boomerang exploit as a reference point while disregarding the fact that it's impossible to use that particular exploit since it was patched out, and that the only warping he did was in a pod.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
677
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:43:43 -
[38] - Quote
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote: Going by the reason given there CCP are using the Boomerang exploit as a reference point while disregarding the fact that it's impossible to use that particular exploit since it was patched out, and that the only warping he did was in a pod.
That is interesting. Given in the Original exploit notifacation no mention of it only applying whilst in a ship. Looks like a small oversight when they patched the exploit out. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14527
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:45:16 -
[39] - Quote
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Going by the reason given there CCP are using the Boomerang exploit as a reference point while disregarding the fact that it's impossible to use that particular exploit since it was patched out, and that the only warping he did was in a pod.
Looks to be the case.
This is why we want hard rules not grey ones.
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Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
369
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:50:06 -
[40] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Going by the reason given there CCP are using the Boomerang exploit as a reference point while disregarding the fact that it's impossible to use that particular exploit since it was patched out, and that the only warping he did was in a pod. Looks to be the case. This is why we want hard rules not grey ones. Agreed, without any indication of where the grey areas begin it's getting pretty hard to create innovative gameplay without incurring the ban hammer.
So much for CCPs reputation of embracing emergent gameplay.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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Solecist Project
Weapons of Mass Distraction
19480
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:02:13 -
[41] - Quote
This thread is hilarious.
Of course he got banned. Either people are too shortsighted to understand, or simply too selfish and not caring about the game at all.
CCP had *no* choice than not to ban him.
It's a freaking no brainer.
"His ship got killed by CONCORD, all good" is valid on one side ... ... and completely bullshit and short sighted on the other.
When suddenly people everywhere start using orcas that way ... ... we will see solo ganks arising everywhere, breaking everything.
So they ban him and make clear that it's not allowed to do so.
If people now declare that it's perfectly fine if solo pilots with orca support are able to gank everything, they should be banned as well for being assholes who rather completely ruin non consensual combat mechanics than caring about the game.
Okay, the alternative would be to simply make it impossible to jump into a ship in space with GCC ... ... but hell, if this guy had filed a petition beforehand instead of being a complete ******* ... ... then he wouldn't have been banned in the first place!
People who think they can be overly creative without caring at all deserve to be kicked out.
This thread should be locked for discussing bans, exploits and because the OP is a **** anyway.
Ralph King-Griffin > **** you sol, years, ****ing years since thats happend
The Cuppy Cake Song <3 <3 <3 :D :D :D
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14528
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:03:22 -
[42] - Quote
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Agreed, without any indication of where the grey areas begin it's getting pretty hard to create innovative gameplay without incurring the ban hammer.
So much for CCPs reputation of embracing emergent gameplay.
This looks to be more of a GM issue with out dated EULA rulings and misunderstanding what exactly is going on.
Everyone agreed boomerang needed to go and that exploit rule in regards to it was a temporary sticking plaster till they patched out the exploit (which they did). We also need to remember that the accounts have been banned pending an investigation so its not actually a verdict yet.
Pulling concord spawns around a system has been a tactic used by gankers for many years now and isn't an exploit. The problem with boomerang was that you could avoid concord which is an exploit. That isn't happening here, concord are killing his ships in the same time frame as any other gank.
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Mag's
the united
18756
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:13:54 -
[43] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Agreed, without any indication of where the grey areas begin it's getting pretty hard to create innovative gameplay without incurring the ban hammer.
So much for CCPs reputation of embracing emergent gameplay.
This looks to be more of a GM issue with out dated EULA rulings and misunderstanding what exactly is going on. Everyone agreed boomerang needed to go and that exploit rule in regards to it was a temporary sticking plaster till they patched out the exploit (which they did). We also need to remember that the accounts have been banned pending an investigation so its not actually a verdict yet. Pulling concord spawns around a system has been a tactic used by gankers for many years now and isn't an exploit. The problem with boomerang was that you could avoid concord which is an exploit. That isn't happening here, concord are killing his ships in the same time frame as any other gank. Agreed.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
370
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:14:23 -
[44] - Quote
I can't say I disagree with your assessment Baltec1, ignore my hyperbole
@Sol, people have been using Orcas in that fashion for quite a while, albeit not in the same circumstances.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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Solecist Project
Weapons of Mass Distraction
19489
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:17:40 -
[45] - Quote
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:I can't say I disagree with your assessment Baltec1.
@Sol, people have been using Orcas in that fashion for quite a while, albeit not in the same circumstances. So what? Changes nothing.
My response to him would be: HTFU. Next time file a petition beforehand, stupid. Because if he had done that he now would still have his account, assuming he won't get unbanned anyway.
But as he didn't it means he's either stupid or a non-caring *******.
Nothing more to say to this, really, except that they better close that hole. *shrugs*
Ralph King-Griffin > **** you sol, years, ****ing years since thats happend
The Cuppy Cake Song <3 <3 <3 :D :D :D
Come along now, come along with me and I'll eeaasee your pain..
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5579
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:23:22 -
[46] - Quote
He didnt use the boomerang feature to be true. That mentions that you cant do it in a ship, he was using a pod.
If they dont like this mechanic. Make it impossible to board any ship in space while you have a Criminal timer active.
"IF criminal timer = 1 THEN ability to board = 0"
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
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Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
270
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:24:08 -
[47] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:J'Poll wrote:
REALLY.
A. Free target for all in EVE. B. Garantueed loss of ship to CONCORD.
The timer wouldn't need to be 15 mins for that. If it was designed to work that way there would be no criminal timer, just the concord response and a suspect timer so the other players could shoot you. Yet whenever you undock/board a ship with a criminal timer concord gets involved. If thats not designed to stop people immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act, then I'm a walrus.
First time ever I meet a Walrus on the forums!
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Solecist Project
Weapons of Mass Distraction
19508
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:37:40 -
[48] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:J'Poll wrote:
REALLY.
A. Free target for all in EVE. B. Garantueed loss of ship to CONCORD.
The timer wouldn't need to be 15 mins for that. If it was designed to work that way there would be no criminal timer, just the concord response and a suspect timer so the other players could shoot you. Yet whenever you undock/board a ship with a criminal timer concord gets involved. If thats not designed to stop people immediately re-shipping after committing a criminal act, then I'm a walrus. First time ever I meet a Walrus on the forums! I hope you are deliberately playing daft here.
Ralph King-Griffin > **** you sol, years, ****ing years since thats happend
The Cuppy Cake Song <3 <3 <3 :D :D :D
Come along now, come along with me and I'll eeaasee your pain..
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Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
324
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:54:41 -
[49] - Quote
lol @ "if the game lets me do it it's not an exploit" Use your brain. It's pretty obvious what the intend behind the 15 minute timer is. It's there to keep you from doing exactly that: ganking stuff non-stop. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14531
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:05:07 -
[50] - Quote
Jessica Duranin wrote:lol @ "if the game lets me do it it's not an exploit" Use your brain. It's pretty obvious what the intend behind the 15 minute timer is. It's there to keep you from doing exactly that: ganking stuff non-stop.
Wrong.
Its there to punish you by blowing up your ship. All of his ships got blown up in the exact same time and way as every other gank.
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Solecist Project
Weapons of Mass Distraction
19520
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:18:19 -
[51] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jessica Duranin wrote:lol @ "if the game lets me do it it's not an exploit" Use your brain. It's pretty obvious what the intend behind the 15 minute timer is. It's there to keep you from doing exactly that: ganking stuff non-stop. Wrong. Its there to punish you by blowing up your ship. All of his ships got blown up in the exact same time and way as every other gank. Half assed. Deliberately leaving out a vital part.
Explain why the GCC lasts 15min if it's only about losing one's ship and secstatus.
You can't just leave out that important part and think your post has any ground.
Explain it. Why does the GCC last 15min? Give your arguments some ground.
I'm waiting.
Ralph King-Griffin > **** you sol, years, ****ing years since thats happend
The Cuppy Cake Song <3 <3 <3 :D :D :D
Come along now, come along with me and I'll eeaasee your pain..
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14533
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:30:23 -
[52] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:
Explain it. Why does the GCC last 15min? Give your arguments some ground.
I'm waiting.
So what time should they have implemented? 10 min? 20 min?
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Solecist Project
Weapons of Mass Distraction
19521
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:38:23 -
[53] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Solecist Project wrote:
Explain it. Why does the GCC last 15min? Give your arguments some ground.
I'm waiting.
So what time should they have implemented? 10 min? 20 min? You are not answering the question.
Why is there a timer in the first place, when - according to your logic - there doesn't need to be one?
Why is there a timer in the first place, when it's only about CONCORD shooting down the ship?
Still waiting. Don't evade the question. :)
Ralph King-Griffin > **** you sol, years, ****ing years since thats happend
The Cuppy Cake Song <3 <3 <3 :D :D :D
Come along now, come along with me and I'll eeaasee your pain..
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Miko Jin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
151
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:47:51 -
[54] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:baltec1 wrote:Solecist Project wrote:
Explain it. Why does the GCC last 15min? Give your arguments some ground.
I'm waiting.
So what time should they have implemented? 10 min? 20 min? You are not answering the question. Why is there a timer in the first place, when - according to your logic - there doesn't need to be one? Why is there a timer in the first place, when it's only about CONCORD shooting down the ship? Still waiting. Don't evade the question. :)
It is a deterrent "a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something" That in itself does not mean you cannot immediately do exactly the same.
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3640
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:58:58 -
[55] - Quote
Seems there are 3 factors limiting suicide ganking in that funny place called highsec:
1. CONCORD response time, limiting max damage output per ship
2. ISK cost, of guaranteed ship destruction
3. 15-minute timer, which effectively limits the ganking potential of each character
Seems clear to me that they can't just allow creative players to bypass the 3rd factor, without unbalancing highsec ganking.
Rest is space lawyering. *yawns*
Make space glamorous!
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
485
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Posted - 2015.01.18 14:08:21 -
[56] - Quote
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:If you think something's an exploit, you do it once, then check if it's reproducible once, and then report it and ask whether it's an exploit or not and you stay as far away as possible from doing it till you get an answer. (and dont try to sell anything related to it either) Exactly.
I evaded CONCORD once. I'm not banned because I only did it once on TQ (I knew it was reproducible), and because I petitioned CCP and told them what I did and how I did it. That's (in part) what led to the change where you cannot warp at all once you get a GCC until your ship is destroyed.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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ISD Supogo
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
464
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Posted - 2015.01.18 14:22:44 -
[57] - Quote
Topic locked.
Quote:16. Posting about bugs and exploits is prohibited.
Bugs and exploits should be reported through the proper channels. Bugs should be brought to the attention of CCP by filing a bug report for our Quality Assurance department. More information on filing bug reports can be found here. Discussions about unverified issues in game can cause unnecessary panic in the community. When there is an issue that the EVE Online community needs to be aware of, it will be communicated via an official statement from CCP after thorough investigation.
ISD Supogo
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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