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Provence Tristram
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2015.01.18 10:38:39 -
[1] - Quote
This isn't meant to be a hit-piece of a thread, and I would hope that people can behave themselves.
However, it occurred to me that, since I started playing EVE back in 2004, I have constantly heard the Gallente referred to as 'the French,' and that -- during that same time -- I have kind of come to see the other nations as being tied to real-world nationalities. This is my list, as I see EVE's geopolitical and cultural landscape:
Gallente: I don't just view them as French, per se, but western European as a whole. I think they embody just as many elements of modern Dutch and Belgian culture, as well as even some aspects of British liberalism (their ships also, for whatever reason, remind me a bit of British naval architecture in the First World War, though I cannot lay my finger on why), as they do France.
Amarr: They're Byzantine Imperials. It just fits: a Roman/Christian homogenization that embraced widespread slavery, simultaneously hell bent on spreading the word of God via force, and constantly battling what were seen as 'unruly masses' on all fronts. The only thing that doesn't work is that the Amarr themselves look Scandavian to me, which obviously wouldn't fit. Culturally, though, it's a lock.
Caldari: Germans. No question about this one. Germany is the economic powerhouse of Europe, and has increasingly traded its abandoned Prussian stoicism for rampant commercialism run-amuck.
Minmatar: I went back and forth on this one. I think they are either post-Nixon China (an ethnically-diverse, rising power eager to flex its new muscle on a world stage), or possibly someplace like Vietnam (a little guy who shocked a superpower).
Interestingly, while I see a lot of European influence in the races, there's absolutely none that I look at and say "that's America." Maybe that was intentional on the part of CCP, but I don't get strong U.S. overtones from either the Caldari or the Gallente (the two most likely candidates), and there aren't enough diehard Christians left in America to make us the Amarr (plus, I challenge you to find any upstanding modern American who would willingly associate us with slavery). |
Another Posting Alt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:03:59 -
[2] - Quote
Matar! Matar! Matar! OY! OY! OY! |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8544
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:08:44 -
[3] - Quote
<-----colonial era space Roman Catholic empire
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
370
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Posted - 2015.01.18 11:55:30 -
[4] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:<-----colonial era space Roman Catholic empire The Spanish Inquisition.
Starring Ralph King-Griffin as "Torturemada"
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
270
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:08:42 -
[5] - Quote
No. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14530
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:09:36 -
[6] - Quote
Caldari = America.
Profits before everything else.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5579
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:26:09 -
[7] - Quote
Jove = American. We dont like our looks so we go to the plastic surgeon to fix it all. Too the point we dont look human anymore and when we laugh, we automatically shrug our shoulders.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Solecist Project
Weapons of Mass Distraction
19500
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:34:59 -
[8] - Quote
Nope.
Ralph King-Griffin > **** you sol, years, ****ing years since thats happend
The Cuppy Cake Song <3 <3 <3 :D :D :D
Come along now, come along with me and I'll eeaasee your pain..
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TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
999
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:42:35 -
[9] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Caldari = America.
Profits before everything else.
Was gonna say this as well. Unless OP means 1940's Germany in which case I could see the resemblance
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Mag's
the united
18756
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:50:24 -
[10] - Quote
No.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Provence Tristram
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
41
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Posted - 2015.01.18 12:52:58 -
[11] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:baltec1 wrote:Caldari = America.
Profits before everything else. Was gonna say this as well. Unless OP means 1940's Germany in which case I could see the resemblance
I mean Germany in general -- I think the Caldari State reflects both the more militant German culture of the 1860s-1940s (well, Prussia until 1871), and also embodies the post-WW2 banker state that we see now. Today's Germany essentially dominates the European economy by providing loans and bailouts, as well as serving as the biggest exporter of products to local nations, particularly in Eastern Europe.
The Spartan elements of Caldari culture line up VERY well with Junker-dominated German values, particularly from 1871-1918, but also stretching up through 1945. By contrast, that's not a trait I would assign to America. We're innovative, and definitely are dominated by corporate interests, but we're also lazy and easily bored -- neither of which are personality quirks embraced by the Caldari State. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5698
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:01:17 -
[12] - Quote
I've always viewed Amarrians as the most "USA-like" of the empires: an economy based on slave labour, ultra-religious, ultra-fanatical about everything they do.
The Caldari seem more like the Japanese to me: the entire culture is about what the individual can do for the corporation.
The Gallente are secular French to the extreme, no doubt about it.
The Minmatar seem to me to be more like New Zealand: racially diverse, intelligent, driven by thirst for adventure. Though New Zealanders are sheep shaggers GǪ so what does that make Minmatar?
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Varathius
Blood Fountain Massacre LOADED-DICE
147
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:02:04 -
[13] - Quote
Provence Tristram wrote:This isn't meant to be a hit-piece of a thread, and I would hope that people can behave themselves.
However, it occurred to me that, since I started playing EVE back in 2004, I have constantly heard the Gallente referred to as 'the French,' and that -- during that same time -- I have kind of come to see the other nations as being tied to real-world nationalities. This is my list, as I see EVE's geopolitical and cultural landscape:
Gallente: I don't just view them as French, per se, but western European as a whole. I think they embody just as many elements of modern Dutch and Belgian culture, as well as even some aspects of British liberalism (their ships also, for whatever reason, remind me a bit of British naval architecture in the First World War, though I cannot lay my finger on why), as they do France.
Amarr: They're Byzantine Imperials. It just fits: a Roman/Christian homogenization that embraced widespread slavery, simultaneously hell bent on spreading the word of God via force, and constantly battling what were seen as 'unruly masses' on all fronts. The only thing that doesn't work is that the Amarr themselves look Scandavian to me, which obviously wouldn't fit. Culturally, however, it's mostly a lock... though I think the more puritanical aspects of the Amarr also remind me a bit of the South African Boers of the late 19th century.
Caldari: Germans. No question about this one. Germany is the economic powerhouse of Europe, and has increasingly traded its abandoned Prussian stoicism for rampant commercialism run-amuck.
Minmatar: I went back and forth on this one. I think they are either post-Nixon China (an ethnically-diverse, rising power eager to flex its new muscle on a world stage), or possibly someplace like Vietnam (a little guy who shocked a superpower).
Interestingly, while I see a lot of European influence in the races, there's absolutely none that I look at and say "that's America." Maybe that was intentional on the part of CCP, but I don't get strong U.S. overtones from either the Caldari or the Gallente (the two most likely candidates), and there aren't enough diehard Christians left in America to make us the Amarr (plus, I challenge you to find any upstanding modern American who would willingly associate us with slavery, outside a historical context).
Gallente as western Europeans ? You trolling or something ??? Ever heard of the Spanish and Portuguese conquistadores ? they were (next to the British of course) some of the most pro-Slaves nations in the history of the universe. Not to mention, the Spanish especially killed everything and asked questions later, if even... The Portuguese had a great time however making babies with their slaves in their colonies, thus, Brazil was born. Doesn't sound like Gallente to me lol.
Amarr as Scandinavian looking? I can agree with the rest you wrote about Amarr but Scandinavian looking, haha...well, perhaps in latest 20 years or so with that middle eastern immigration wave they have, they actually might.
Caldari: I think Caldari fits Murica much better. Yes, Germany is the EU powerhouse but they are too weak to give the lazy and corrupt EU nations the boot in the rear which deserve it, instead, they keep giving them more money. That sound like the Caldari to you?
Minmatar. As you described them, you rather reminded them to me as South Americans. Basically, South America could be a super power but it manages to fail at it constantly due to corruption, old laws written 300+ years ago that haven't changed, and the current own military productions they have are mostly sold to themselves, their neighbor's or to 3rd World Countries due to it being meh war material. |
Provence Tristram
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
41
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:I've always viewed Amarrians as the most "USA-like" of the empires: an economy based on slave labour, ultra-religious, ultra-fanatical about everything they do.
Do you live here?... because... I gotta tell you... ultra-religious? Not anymore. And... an economy based on slave labor?
By the way, while you're living a century and a half ago, can I borrow your time machine? I'd like to make some changes. I've always had this fantasy about preventing WWI... |
Nimrod vanHall
No Vacancies
111
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:17:17 -
[15] - Quote
I see the Caldari as a Japanese , Korean fusion , joined by Some (Dutch) multinationals. I see the Galente as the Europeaan Union. I see the Amarr as a super mighty Iran I see the Minmatar as the Brazille / India |
Zimmy Zeta
Lisa Needs Braces.
56100
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:20:45 -
[16] - Quote
I always thought that Amarr was some kind of twisted version of Amarrica. Like, if the Confederates had won the civil war and went full imperialistic after that.
Gallente and Caldari: Like France and England in the 100 year's war..that's why Gallente have the heavily armored short range ships (knights) and Caldari focus on range instead (longbowmen). I don't think Caldari resemble Germany very much..I mean, yeah, a totalitarian dictatorship, but then again, the power lies with the corporations, there is no strong central state dictating all commerce. The Caldari feel more like a 1984ish dystopia, not an actual state.
Minmatar: not a real geographical state, more of a social caste that revolts against their oppressors. Space proletarians or something like that.
I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it.
Yes, I do feel bad about it.
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
192
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:28:24 -
[17] - Quote
Quote:Caldari: Germans. No question about this one. Germany is the economic powerhouse of Europe, and has increasingly traded its abandoned Prussian stoicism for rampant commercialism run-amuck. and japanese (some of the hulls are named after their mythology) and
baltec1 wrote:Caldari = America. mohawks and military marks after RL army on navy hulls.
Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.
I am the night. I'm Bantam.
More exploration in exploration
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Provence Tristram
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
41
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:33:14 -
[18] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:I always thought that Amarr was some kind of twisted version of Amarrica. Like, if the Confederates had won the civil war and went full imperialistic after that.
Sold. THIS? This I can buy.
Quote: Gallente and Caldari: Like France and England in the 100 year's war..that's why Gallente have the heavily armored short range ships (knights) and Caldari focus on range instead (longbowmen).
Uh... militarily? Sure. Culturally the Caldari are nothing like Britain. But I like where you're going with this.
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Zimmy Zeta
Lisa Needs Braces.
56102
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:43:19 -
[19] - Quote
After giving it a little more thought, I think that Minmatar could actually resemble (surprise!) Germany. Not the modern Germany though, but the ancient Germanic tribes that were subjugated by the Romans and then bounded together in a lose alliance to fight them. Look at all those names for their ships, hailing from nordic mythology...
I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it.
Yes, I do feel bad about it.
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Foxicity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
109
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Posted - 2015.01.18 14:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
I always pictured the Matari as a civilization that rose from the ashes of a Mad Max-like post-apocalyptic Jamaica. Conquering out all the bandits to build a civilization that would eventually take to the skies. |
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Blobskillz McBlub
Manson Family Advent of Fate
20
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Posted - 2015.01.18 14:29:05 -
[21] - Quote
minmatar are black space vikings
caldari are a japanese / german mix
gallente are a Frrench / USA mix
Amarr are the space Vatikan |
Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
33280
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Posted - 2015.01.18 14:30:12 -
[22] - Quote
Provence Tristram wrote:
I mean Germany in general -- I think the Caldari State reflects both the more militant German culture of the 1860s-1940s (well, Prussia until 1871), and also embodies the post-WW2 banker state that we see now. Today's Germany essentially dominates the European economy by providing loans and bailouts, as well as serving as the biggest exporter of products to local nations, particularly in Eastern Europe.
did you ever wonder, where do banks get so much money, that everyone is in debt to them ?
the simple answer is they don't
They "legally" make new money whenever they give out a loan |
Solecist Project
Weapons of Mass Distraction
19549
|
Posted - 2015.01.18 15:22:25 -
[23] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:Provence Tristram wrote:
I mean Germany in general -- I think the Caldari State reflects both the more militant German culture of the 1860s-1940s (well, Prussia until 1871), and also embodies the post-WW2 banker state that we see now. Today's Germany essentially dominates the European economy by providing loans and bailouts, as well as serving as the biggest exporter of products to local nations, particularly in Eastern Europe.
did you ever wonder, where do banks get so much money, that everyone is in debt to them ? the simple answer is they don't They "legally" make new money whenever they give out a loan Imagine how good we would have it ... ... if fake authority wouldn't force us to throw money away all the time ... ... and our traitorous governments wouldn't support them.
Ralph King-Griffin > **** you sol, years, ****ing years since thats happend
The Cuppy Cake Song <3 <3 <3 :D :D :D
Come along now, come along with me and I'll eeaasee your pain..
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5581
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Posted - 2015.01.18 15:32:48 -
[24] - Quote
Nimrod vanHall wrote:I see the Caldari as a Japanese , Korean fusion , joined by Some (Dutch) multinationals. I see the Galente as the Europeaan Union. I see the Amarr as a super mighty Iran I see the Minmatar as the Brazille / India
And THAT is why I picked Caldari
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Gilan Isana
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2015.01.18 15:42:37 -
[25] - Quote
Interesting question / article. Was thinking this a few days ago while mildly daydreaming during the last hour of work. . . . .
I dont think it can be as clear cut as 'one EVE race = One RW race / Nationality, but rather an amalgam of different nationalities from different time periods.
Amarr - has a bit of a feel of 'age of exploration' conquistadors -perhaps in the back story, but also much akin to Japan in the 30's/ and 40's an era where they walked out of the league of nations and held strong imperialist designs while having a 'cult' psudo-religion based around the emperor, many of the 'great works' of Japan in that time were built on the backs of slave labor using POW, or citizens of subjugated 'inferior' countries (eg the burma railway). There are several examples throughout history where religion and royalty/leaders have become fused - Ancient Egypt, Charlemagne and the holy roman empire, Spanish conquistadors/inquisition era, through to modern day examples of the arabian peninsula and North Korea. Summing up, I think the Amarr are meant to represent this theme of the tie up of state and religion, but very difficult to give an exact country.
Caldari - That said, Caldari naming of systems, certainly has a japanese/korean/chinese flavor in the language. Though I can see the caldari more akin to the rise of the British empire where many overseas conquests were carried out by companies, and these companies held more power than the throne ( East india company - India ; West India company - carribean), until finally being subjugated back under the crown. Dont think the Caldari state is docile. I think like the earlier british example, the state owns a share and stake in most of the companies while allowing them to pursue their own paths. A more modern day example of caldari could well be america where it often seems that the mega-corporations have more power than the government and choose the president, lets face it, we all know the oil industry paid for Bush Jr presidency!!! Here, there are several other possible examples through time where the company is more powerful than the state, which is the model for caldari.
Gallente - I think I agree with earlier comments regarding Gallente and western Europe. The back story actually states they are descended from french colonists, (this can be seen with naming conventions of the systems in gallente space having a strong 'Gallic' flavor) - though again I think more akin to the whole of western Europe - right from the renaissance, through to modern times. Digging further back, the models for gallente would be routed in the Greek 'BC' city states and the later (though pre-christian) roman empire copy thereof, with their foundations in democracy and expansions in philosphy, art and science. Gallente are the idea of democratic state, where freedom of the individual comes first, above state, above religion, and above corporation. Throughout history again, there are many attempts at this kind of 'government' from a small tribal scale to some of the largest nations we have today, but then as Winston Churchill once said "Democracy is the worst form of government - except for all the others that have been tried!"
Minmatar - Clearly the Min are linked to all oppressed masses that have broken the shackles of their masters, ranging from the Isrealites under Egypt, through the many European Tribes at the breakdown of the roman Empire, and countless other freedom from oppression movements through the ages - usually involving breakdown of empires, through to the freedom of slaves in the western world, with a touch of the repatriation and rights of the indigenous peoples of the Americas and Australia. The one that most sticks in my mind as a representation of the Min is the post Russian revolution, in that all too brief period before the rise of the communist dictators and the 'party', with a hint thrown in of everyone that has ever been freed by an oppressing power.
In conclusion, I think it is wrong to try to link any particular EVE race with a direct real world counterpart, but rather see them all as an amalgam of ideals and representations of several countries/tribes/nations throughout the long development of human history.
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
486
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Posted - 2015.01.18 16:15:03 -
[26] - Quote
No.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7587
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Posted - 2015.01.18 16:28:21 -
[27] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:No.
This.
Or maybe I'm just kissing ass to get into a little bee corp.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
819
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Posted - 2015.01.18 16:31:28 -
[28] - Quote
nope |
Plug in Baby
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
253
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Posted - 2015.01.18 16:46:48 -
[29] - Quote
Amarr = USA, monotheistic, slavery etc..
Minmatar = Africa, tribal themes, slavery
Caldari = Germany (early 20th century) rise of nationalism, great military and industrial strength (could also be japan)
Gallente = Western Europe - civil liberties, mix and match, french themes.
This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
564
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Posted - 2015.01.18 19:45:47 -
[30] - Quote
Obviously.
Caldari reminds of USA with its corporate rule and Japan with its tough corporate structure/life. Caldari also feels very militarized, again drawing to mind USA. Look at all those buzzcuts/hightops. Its like a race of Guiles. Caldari also has an air of efficiency, which always brings to mind Germany. But then the system names also remind me of Finnish sometimes, with lots of vowels and doubled letters. Maybe that's just meant to sound Japanese.
Gallente is what the USA always claims to be. Their ships are too form over function though. USA is generally about function and being cost effective. Cost effective to build anyway. Not necessarily to run. Profit margins. Churn and burn. Gallente is obviously meant to be French with those system names... Also, if you are born as a Frenchie in the real world, you receive an innate +1 to artsyness, it's a fact. Being a French artist is basically cheating. And Gallente ships and structures are definitely the most artsy fartsy of the factions. I don't know how the Mesopotamian god names fit in. Just sounds cool I guess. The rivalry between Gallente/Caldari highlights the German influence in Caldari I guess.
Amarr brings to mind the USA with its slavery and (ongoing) racism. The USA is also still very religious compared to other western nations. Politicians are always trying to use religious junk as the basis for laws, and Presidents still end every communication with God bless America. USA conquests generally come down to gaining influence and profit though, rather than religious conquest. The nation just wasn't around early enough to get in on all the hardcore religious conquest. A religious sheen is applied to gain support from a certain subset of the population. Then again, there was the whole idea of manifest destiny, justified expansion from shore to shore, and eradication of the Godless "savages" during the country's founding. Sounds like Amarr. But Amarr obviously also brings to mind the Roman Empire. The Confessor brought some new design language to Amarr ships - tiled patterns. This reminds me of Ottoman art and I hope to see more of it, or even a total replacement of the floral patterns with tiles. Much better looking. For me, Amarr is just all peoples who have been under the influence of the Abrahamic religions. And as if that wasn't off-putting enough, CCP added slavery and racism on top.
Minmatar was originally supposed to have a Maori influence but I'm not sure that ever came though much. I guess the new tattoos hit on that a bit, particularly with all the chin-pieces. And maybe the ship designs too. Sails, paddles, brown color. Minmatar were slaves, and used to be the only faction with black people, so American slavery will often come to peoples' minds. Then there is the heavy Norse influence in the names of ships and some systems even. Minmatar seems the most eclectic, even though going by the descriptions you would assume Gallente would be. Minmatar I prefer to see as all "pagans", "heathens", and "godless savages" throughout the world and throughout time.
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