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Trader Joe Jackson
Shoot ship and salvage Inc
0
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Posted - 2015.01.18 18:28:32 -
[1] - Quote
Level 4 mission blitzing is covered, front to back, and then back around again, but I am having trouble finding info for the others.
Basically, I plan to bump my standing up to 5+ with 5-6 corps, and I have been messing around with blitzing them in various ways, but I was wondering if anyone knew the "best" ships. I started off with the Navy corps, and have already finished Caldari, Amarr and am nearly finished with Federation.
So far, I have been doing L1 and L2 in a Retribution, and L3s in a Zealot. This is mostly because I started with Amarr, and couldnt be assed to buy a new ship. Retribution seems pretty good, with decent speed and DPS, but I am wondering if anything else would be noticeably faster for L1 and L2 blitzing. The Zealot did very well in Amarr, struggled a bit in Caldari, and is doing alright in Federation, but I have a feeling that doing Republic is going to be a pain in the ass.
If not specific ships, possibly the best class of ship? I am not looking for the low SP, "use a destroyer for L1, Cruiser for L2, etc" answer, I am looking for the fastest. Assault frigs for L1 and L2? Or could I be doing better in L2? Etc. You get the idea.
Being that I spend the bulk of the time in L2 and L3, and not in L1, I am not overly concerned about L1 efficiency. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
873
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Posted - 2015.01.18 18:30:55 -
[2] - Quote
ishtar, gila |
Trader Joe Jackson
Shoot ship and salvage Inc
0
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Posted - 2015.01.18 18:38:11 -
[3] - Quote
I have flown a lot of Gila, but not much Ishtar. Neither one seem like blitzing material. L3s are still pretty close in, and the drones get instant agro since the bulk of the ships are very small. Even the Gila with it's mediums has a lot of flight time, as well as drone agro. (although the mediums hold up fairly well) It is nice with rapid lights on the Gila for shredding frigs, though, but I still dont find it all that quick. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
873
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Posted - 2015.01.18 18:43:53 -
[4] - Quote
fit for the purpose, put a drone nav link in mid to make them fly faster. They shouldn't die since they get that huge hp bonus.
With ishtars you can just roflstomp everything with sentries if the room requires killing or just wreck something with heavies if it's just an assassination |
Trader Joe Jackson
Shoot ship and salvage Inc
0
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Posted - 2015.01.18 18:47:03 -
[5] - Quote
Heavies get eaten up in the large frig swarms, and are just super slow. And using sentries for popping frigs makes your overall dps really low. Again, they obviously can run these things, but I would be absolutely shocked if an Ishtar was even close to the fastest for L3s, let alone L2s. To get decent overall DPS, those sentries need to be shooting things that dont pop in one shot, and once the frigs are up close, it is bad times. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
873
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Posted - 2015.01.18 19:20:11 -
[6] - Quote
Wouldn't really call 2.6km/s slow and that's an ogre the slowest heavy.
Level 3 missions don't have enough dps for your heavies to die before they assassinate what's required.
Isthars can snipe from over 50km away and and can onehit frigates/destroyers and 2 hit cruisers.
Like it just doesn't sound like you've ever been in an ishtar. |
Trader Joe Jackson
Shoot ship and salvage Inc
0
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Posted - 2015.01.18 19:25:26 -
[7] - Quote
2.6km/s is a heck of a lot slower than a projectile, I can promise you that. And that is my point here. And L3's dont have enough DPS to drop heavies? Sounds to me like you dont run many L3s. Ishtars can snipe from 50km. Very nice. Too bad the bulk of the ships are like, 20-30 km, and within 10 very quickly. Where your sentries wont hit ****. And yes, they can one shot frigates, with a ton of overkill. Which is the point. You want something that hits for JUST enough to one shot, but shoots really fast.
Let me ask you, have you been blitzing L2 and L3 in an Ishtar? And, even if you had, have you compared it to anything else? |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
873
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Posted - 2015.01.18 20:04:34 -
[8] - Quote
You'd only use heavies if they didn't have to travel far, sentries otherwise.
You know you can fit a prop mod on the ishtar and get range if you feel theyre too close? Also I think you're underestimating the tracking of gardes, they're perfectly capable of hitting cruisers at sub 10km ranges. Not that you would even do that, heavies would be a better choice there.
Level 3s definitely do not have the dps to kill my drones if im smart about it.
You're just revealing massive holes in your point every time you post =/ |
Trader Joe Jackson
Shoot ship and salvage Inc
0
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Posted - 2015.01.18 20:08:04 -
[9] - Quote
Again, I didnt say that the Ishtar cant do it. My point is that it is not the fastest, or even close to the fastest. That is the point that you seem to be missing here. All of your arguments have nothing to do with that. You sound like every other Ishtar bandwagon person around. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
873
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Posted - 2015.01.18 20:23:49 -
[10] - Quote
retribution and zealot have no damage selection, that alone makes it inferior to the ishtar.
Plus you have to fly around to shoot things and there's no way you're going to get close to 600+ dps with either ship. |
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Jobe Mortiig
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.01.18 20:59:23 -
[11] - Quote
Would the Cynabal's warp speed/acceleration buff be anything worth considering?
I recently reran the SOE arc with a Dramiel and it was nice to scoot around so fast. |
Sturmwolke
616
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Posted - 2015.01.18 22:29:23 -
[12] - Quote
I wouldnt bother with L1-L2 when grinding standings. Any AF/destroyers will serve the temporary function. For L3, the HML Tengu (w/ full Rigors) used to be one of the most optimal before the HML nerf, if not the best for blitzing. Reason for this is >~500dps dmg projection for >60km. Many of the missions in L3 have long engagement range that a drone boat or any short range boats will waste too much time applying dmg.
Haven't run L3 for ages, the Tengu should still be applicable if somewhat emasculated. Afaik, no other cruisers come close to ease of use (no need to fuss over drones/MWD approach), fitting/ammo versatility and dmg projection potential of the Tengu for L3 missions. If you can't fly it, the Cerberus can serve as a good interim. |
Argent Rotineque
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2015.01.18 23:02:58 -
[13] - Quote
Personally, for cranking standings, I think you can chain 15 distribution missions (these may not be with the target corp look for several agents on a pipe) and one security close to the target corp's storyline agent together to pull story lines faster than running pure security missions.
I believe the Mach's warp speed bonus and damage application vs frigates makes it tough to compete with for at least level 3s, there's a thread about this. I'd expect the cynabal is near that thanks to it's own warp bonus.
FWIW, I've yet to lose a race for an anon to an ishtar in an Omen Navy Issue in Blood/Sansha space, so I'd probably test one. |
Blackfeathers
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2015.01.18 23:22:53 -
[14] - Quote
I find Vagabonds are pretty good - run in, smash the objective, run out. Selectable damage, fast and fun. |
Jori McKie
TURN LEFT The Camel Empire
195
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Posted - 2015.01.18 23:38:03 -
[15] - Quote
Good fitted AC Machs specialized on tracking kill frigs like nothing. Two gun groups with 3 and 4 each. Just align away from the frigs to get good transversal. Bonus is cruiser will die fast, too. Normal Frigs will be instant volleyed by one group between 30 - 60km most of the time Elite Frigs will be instant volleyed with both groups between 30 - 60km most of the time
Cynabal has major range problems, no long range and in short range as in 3km you won't hit the Frigs anymore. DPS on NPC cruiser is low. The Gila would be the best cruiser alternative but the Drones will be targeted often by the NPCs. The best weapon system to kill frigs is LML so for missions with lots of frigs and less cruiser use an Interdictor, Herectic or Flycatcher. Maybe CCP will give one new T3 Destroyer LML as waepon system use this then.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
--áAbrazzar
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5705
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Posted - 2015.01.19 00:02:35 -
[16] - Quote
If your intent is to blitz the standings gains, Distribution missions in a blockade runner. It is faster than any frigate, and will carry any cargo from L1GÇô4 missions, and many of the storylines too. You will be able to do multiple L2 missions at the same time, so pick your agents carefully. Some corps have multiple agents in one station, for others you can pick up new missions on a loop (just keep adding to your autopilot route).
If you are absolutely focussed on getting the standings through Security missions, it doesnt get much better than a HML Tengu, Cerberus or even a Drake at a pinch. Fit for warp speed & DPS. if you are swimming in ISK, consider the Mordus Legion cruiser (Orthrus?) since the bonus to missile speed makes it a less boring missile boat, and its attraction as a gank magnet makes for a less boring play session :)
If you don't want to die from boredom, talk to Imiarr Timshae about The Standings Correction Agency.
Finally, if you don't want to pay someone else to grind standings for you, you don't want to do distribution missions and you don't want to die of boredom in a missile boat, consider the Angel Cartel ships for their superior warp speed and moderately selectable damage type.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1333
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Posted - 2015.01.19 00:11:49 -
[17] - Quote
If I have to run 3s I usually fit RHML and Gecko to my Rattlesnake.
Its not optimal but it gets the job done, |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5712
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Posted - 2015.01.19 06:59:03 -
[18] - Quote
I tend to abuse my Hamgu for the same reason (i.e.: I have it, it's conveniently nearby, and it is fun to pull it out of mothballs every now and the ).
Note that the L3 version of Blockade vs Angel Cartel has NPCs spawning at 100km range
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
908
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Posted - 2015.01.19 10:23:13 -
[19] - Quote
from what I remember reading a warp speed mach wins, a warp speed RHML Raven does well, and the warp speed fit ishtar is the other choice, don't remember the order of the last two.
I recently did grind out some standings. with connections to lv3 you only need one standings transaction (read one level 1 mission, or any positive faction standings, also I think a little negative faction works if you have diplomacy) and you can run level 2s. doesn't take too many lv2s to move on to level 3s. for the most part I remember warping in and ships died faster than I could effectively deal with the drone interface... tbh just getting full room aggro and turning focus fire off was the best way to go. then again I remember most of the time killing everything before I even got aggro.
I usually bring a long range set of sentries (600+ dps at 100km+), gardes (700+ out to 50km plus a bunch of falloff, and pretty good tracking), and then a 2 gecko, 2 med, 1 light set that pretty much alphas any NPCs that get inside 10km or so. A few flights of lights instead of the gecko flight makes sense as you can throw out whatever damage type is needed, and most npcs won't go for lights on those missions where you have to MWD across the room.
I don't really trust a gila, but that mostly stems from whenever they nerfed medium drones a bunch of years ago. although I don't trust the travel time on them either. even if they went 10km/s they would probably be too slow.
cynabal, might work if you land right on top of whatever it is you need to kill and can warp right out again, as I don't know that the warp speed difference (5au/s ishtar, 7.8au/s cyna, all rig slots with t2 warp speed rigs)
tengu not a bad choice, but with HM I'd much rather have the instant, and higher, dps of an ishtar. for HAMs, well you fly hams and let me know. the range and RoF both bug me.
unless you have decent proof I'll be rather happy to stay on the ishtar bandwagon. mostly because when doing this kind of work I cba to haul around enough ammo that it makes a mach/raven worth flying. oh yea and flying out in an AF and then going all the way to get a different ship for lv3s is just silly. sure I could throw it all in an orca and bring everything everywhere, but then I'm flying an orca all over the place and that thing is slow, when I could just be flying a warp speed fit ishtar.
tl;dr get a damn ishtar
I'll join the chorus asking CCP, don't take my fancy names away from me!
In the name of the Limos, the Malkuth, and the Arbalest, so help me pod
- Mara Rinn
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chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
179
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Posted - 2015.01.19 13:08:41 -
[20] - Quote
I can give ya some input on my experience
Level 1: T1 arty thrasher works really well. Bring MWD and 280s
Level 2-3 I'm grouping these cause destroyers get out performed here. I've tried the Talos in 3s with a buddy using a tengu. The Talos fell quite a bit behind comparatively just due to warp speed, so I wouldn't really recommend anything that slow or slower 720 loki worked very well There was someone who made a machariel fit a little while back that looked promising cause of the warp speed but I never tried it. Wish I could remember the name, he did a lot of min-max stuff and also logged his results with spreadsheets. |
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Trader Joe Jackson
Shoot ship and salvage Inc
0
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Posted - 2015.01.19 15:34:05 -
[21] - Quote
Tengu is out. I already had one from before, and it just doesnt cut it against large swarms of frigs. Even with two flares and a rigor the heavy missiles just arent as effective, plus the flight times. The only real benefit of running with the Tengu was the range, but there just arent very many long range engagements in the L3s. Sure, some, but not that many, and not that all of the things are that far out. You can start popping things at 40-50km out while you move towards things that are further out, and just keep trashing stuff as you go.
I picked up an Ishtar, and sorry, still not that impressed. As I had already assumed, the shot delay with the sentries just isnt worth it, and not being able to split up the shots really kills it. If it was easier to put one sentry per frig, it would be different, but it isnt. And the heavies really suck as well, because there is quite the delay in getting a target, then moving to it, then shooting it, and then moving on. I could have popped 2-3 ships with a turret in the time it took for them to drop one, and that is if they were close in so that the heavies didnt need to move.
The only nice thing was that if I could manage to get a lot of things agroed on me, I could basically just go to the bathroom. But in the end, it wasnt really worth it. And, for the record, yes, the heavies can and will take a beating from the NPCs. The Mordu's missions especially were constant callbacks, and basically any missile heavy fleet was more hassle than it was worth.
The Vagabond is what I just now loaded up, and it seems nice enough for the actually applied DPS and kill turnover. The range isnt as impressive, but the guns cycle fast, and things pop on short order, which is what it is all about. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
24
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Posted - 2015.01.19 15:43:01 -
[22] - Quote
Gila with some drone rigs gets you a 3.8k/s speed, 630dps and 7k ehp on Hammerhead II's
Dont forget you only have two out and can hold 5 compliments, which means if you get more agents in the same area you can omni tank lvl3's and carry each damage type plus a couple spare. |
ValentinaDLM
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
565
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Posted - 2015.01.19 15:59:04 -
[23] - Quote
I prefer the gila but there was a thread. While back about a rhml raven with warp speed rigs that had some really promising numbers for l3s |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
876
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Posted - 2015.01.19 18:56:30 -
[24] - Quote
Trader Joe Jackson wrote: I picked up an Ishtar, and sorry, still not that impressed. As I had already assumed, the shot delay with the sentries just isnt worth it, and not being able to split up the shots really kills it. If it was easier to put one sentry per frig, it would be different, but it isnt. And the heavies really suck as well, because there is quite the delay in getting a target, then moving to it, then shooting it, and then moving on. I could have popped 2-3 ships with a turret in the time it took for them to drop one, and that is if they were close in so that the heavies didnt need to move.
The only nice thing was that if I could manage to get a lot of things agroed on me, I could basically just go to the bathroom. But in the end, it wasnt really worth it. And, for the record, yes, the heavies can and will take a beating from the NPCs. The Mordu's missions especially were constant callbacks, and basically any missile heavy fleet was more hassle than it was worth.
The Vagabond is what I just now loaded up, and it seems nice enough for the actually applied DPS and kill turnover. The range isnt as impressive, but the guns cycle fast, and things pop on short order, which is what it is all about.
what other large long range weapon has a cycle time of 4.5 seconds?
Oh yeah that's right: none.
You can put armour reppers in highs if you want to keep your drones out longer, also using some kind of ewar keeps aggro on you as well.
Vagabond has to fly to targets to kill them, that alone puts it behind the ishtar. |
Trader Joe Jackson
Shoot ship and salvage Inc
0
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Posted - 2015.01.19 18:59:04 -
[25] - Quote
Look at the engagement ranges of nearly all L3 missions. You dont need long range. A Vagabond will reach out to 40km with ACs. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
876
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Posted - 2015.01.19 19:02:19 -
[26] - Quote
Trader Joe Jackson wrote:Look at the engagement ranges of nearly all L3 missions. You dont need long range. A Vagabond will reach out to 40km with ACs.
yeah 40km and 100 dps wooo |
Trader Joe Jackson
Shoot ship and salvage Inc
0
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Posted - 2015.01.19 19:03:31 -
[27] - Quote
lol, and this is my point. Try other ships than your Ishtar. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
160
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Posted - 2015.01.19 19:51:24 -
[28] - Quote
Ishtar is the best. Really not many other ships in the game that can pop 5 frigs with one volley. Yes you have to learn to assign drones properly.
Or I use a beam legion as I run missions against sansha and bloodraiders and thus the 670m/s, 670 dps at 32km optimal. 3 TC's to change to tracking if you mess up and they get close. Only issue is the dmg type lock in. |
Trader Joe Jackson
Shoot ship and salvage Inc
0
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Posted - 2015.01.19 20:01:02 -
[29] - Quote
First, a Garde, alone, will not pop a frig in one shot. And if I have to assign one drone per frig, I would rather hang myself with the terrible interface for doing so.
Edit: Will not pop most frigs. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
24
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Posted - 2015.01.19 20:15:27 -
[30] - Quote
Trader Joe Jackson wrote:Look at the engagement ranges of nearly all L3 missions. You dont need long range. A Vagabond will reach out to 40km with ACs.
AH NO... Sleipner would be better in every single aspect of L3's than a Fagabond. |
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