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Tear Jar
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
297
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Posted - 2015.01.19 21:46:35 -
[1] - Quote
The biggest benefit of awoxing is it kept CEOs from just mass recruiting newbies to use as easy tax income.
Now, there is no disincentive from recruiting a bunch of players and pushing them to run missions for personal gain.
The simple solution is to disable player taxes if this feature is turned on. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
1134
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Posted - 2015.01.19 22:00:57 -
[2] - Quote
There's always two in that scheme: the pusher and the pushed. If you let yourself push into such a corp or stay if a CEO goes that alley, it's your fault for being milked like a cash cow and you suffer from the harsh and unforgiving environment in EVE more than you would if you had a spine or cared about what you do.
Hence, I don't think that additional change is needed. Even if taxes were turned off, the CEO could just demand a fixed rate fee at the end of the month from ever corp member and everything would be the same as described above.
-1 |
Tear Jar
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
297
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Posted - 2015.01.19 22:04:51 -
[3] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:There's always two in that scheme: the pusher and the pushed. If you let yourself push into such a corp or stay if a CEO goes that alley, it's your fault for being milked like a cash cow and you suffer from the harsh and unforgiving environment in EVE more than you would if you had a spine or cared about what you do.
Hence, I don't think that additional change is needed. Even if taxes were turned off, the CEO could just demand a fixed rate fee at the end of the month from ever corp member and everything would be the same as described above.
-1
The reason CEOs get away with it is the tax is less obvious. You won't notice it until you have a good grasp of mechanics. New players may not notice the tax, but it would be really obvious if the CEO started demanding money outright. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
1134
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Posted - 2015.01.19 22:10:14 -
[4] - Quote
If the corp tax is higher than NPC corps' (or even the same rate) for no good reason/benefits, you are the pushed and don't think about your actions. If you don't receive advertised benefits for the higher taxes and you don't speak up or leave because why should you stay in such a corp, you are the pushed and don't think about your actions. If you let the CEO get away with such actions, you deserve to be ripped off and are the pushed. Considering how harsh real life has become in terms of demands for more checks and balances in all areas of our lifes and society, I expect people to also check and scrutinize their superiors in a game that is supposed to be harsh. Rest see above. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
573
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Posted - 2015.01.19 22:42:06 -
[5] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:If the corp tax is higher than NPC corps' (or even the same rate) for no good reason/benefits, you are the pushed and don't think about your actions. If you don't receive advertised benefits for the higher taxes and you don't speak up or leave because why should you stay in such a corp, you are the pushed and don't think about your actions. If you let the CEO get away with such actions, you deserve to be ripped off and are the pushed. Considering how harsh real life has become in terms of demands for more checks and balances in all areas of our lifes and society, I expect people to also check and scrutinize their superiors in a game that is supposed to be harsh. Rest see above.
The tax rate is displayed prominently in the corp adverts and the corp info window, which a newbie should check. If they don't see the tax rates there, they have far more serious problems than getting potentially ripped off by a corp. If CEOs/directors change the tax level, you get a notification as a corp member. If that happens for no good reason (for instance, no mail mail outlining the reasons for the tax change and what members can expect from the collected corp money) and you stay in that corp, you also have far more serious problems.
This...
Corp tax should show some benefit. Kind of like real life. Is my county/city charging me tax? yes. Is my kids school pretty good and roads by and large not fill with tire eating potholes (winter time can destroy roads, can't ding them hard for that too much if it just came up)? yes. Pay tax and classify this under this crap doesn't pay for itself.
Lacking this....its a sign to find a new home really Homes I was in for example to get dictor pressure up loaded up select caps/supers with dictors. Lost a ship? Cleared the pod? Fly a dictor? Well then go see player x and get yourself a dictor and go make yourself useful.
Also most times I have seen corp tax changed to say....100% is when the null bears needed added motivation to get into a damn pvp ship. If already in the pvp fleet(s) for the night.....this 100% was no skin off your nose beyond tax hit on collecting a random bounty on player really. Or was an announced corp fund drive to buy a station egg. In this case a corp I was in said this is for just a week and we get a station at the end of it so just grin and bear it. We got a station...it was worth the week of sacrifice. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
530
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Posted - 2015.01.19 23:12:50 -
[6] - Quote
Problem is you can now spam invite to corp in newbie areas some new players never even see tax anyplace and ate not told about it in any tutorial.
So it's not really something you can blame them for
Fuel block colors
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
160
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Posted - 2015.01.20 00:12:21 -
[7] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:There's always two in that scheme: the pusher and the pushed. If you let yourself push into such a corp or stay if a CEO goes that alley, it's your fault for being milked like a cash cow and you suffer from the harsh and unforgiving environment in EVE more than you would if you had a spine or cared about what you do.
Hence, I don't think that additional change is needed. Even if taxes were turned off, the CEO could just demand a fixed rate fee at the end of the month from ever corp member and everything would be the same as described above.
-1 The reason CEOs get away with it is the tax is less obvious. You won't notice it until you have a good grasp of mechanics. New players may not notice the tax, but it would be really obvious if the CEO started demanding money outright.
Really? cause as a new player I was always needing more isk and I noticed every time that I turned in a mission or got a bounty tick that I was losing some of it to tax. I didnt have to go looking for it as every other entry into my wallet was a red one that cost me money. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
573
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Posted - 2015.01.20 00:20:13 -
[8] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Problem is you can now spam invite to corp in newbie areas some new players never even see tax anyplace and ate not told about it in any tutorial.
So it's not really something you can blame them for
They'd see NPC tax on their wallet transactions from missions. Its really on a player to go hmm, why did a piece of my money get taken away? IIRC at least one tutorial mission pays out enough to be in the pay bracket to trigger tax. So does intro SOE epic arc. I'd consider these must do's starting out. If only to get some decent isk (at that moment in time, at any rate) before grinding level 1. SOE epic nice to get a tour of new eden as well. Hell I run it on the resets just to go you know...ain't did an empire road trip in a while that gets some standings as a bene.
Well that and in just a quick glance over corps recruiting you see several advertising no/low corp tax or they explain yes they have a corp tax but it helps to pay for x,y,z.
Call me jaded but if I were to post something like check out (some chicks name), her pics are friggin hot most of the male population (and female if so inclined) of this game would be hopping to google, turning off safe picture filter and typing the name away.
If they can do this for that...well then they can google what corp tax is and why some corp's take the effort to say NO Corp tax in their ads. They bothered to type it, might be important my take on it.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
531
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Posted - 2015.01.20 00:24:39 -
[9] - Quote
I'll have players 3 months old ask me what taxs is because this is the first time they have ever even opind their journal
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Mag's
the united
18768
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Posted - 2015.01.20 00:24:48 -
[10] - Quote
Actually there should be a 10% Concord tax when it's activated.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
531
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Posted - 2015.01.20 00:27:55 -
[11] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Actually there should be a 10% Concord tax when it's activated.
lol or a 50% reduction in the war dec fee for your corp
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
207
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Posted - 2015.01.20 00:38:30 -
[12] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:If the corp tax is higher than NPC corps' (or even the same rate) for no good reason/benefits, you are the pushed and don't think about your actions. If you don't receive advertised benefits for the higher taxes and you don't speak up or leave because why should you stay in such a corp, you are the pushed and don't think about your actions. If you let the CEO get away with such actions, you deserve to be ripped off and are the pushed. Considering how harsh real life has become in terms of demands for more checks and balances in all areas of our lifes and society, I expect people to also check and scrutinize their superiors in a game that is supposed to be harsh. Rest see above.
The tax rate is displayed prominently in the corp adverts and the corp info window, which a newbie should check. If they don't see the tax rates there, they have far more serious problems than getting potentially ripped off by a corp. If CEOs/directors change the tax level, you get a notification as a corp member. If that happens for no good reason (for instance, no mail mail outlining the reasons for the tax change and what members can expect from the collected corp money) and you stay in that corp, you also have far more serious problems.
Pretty much this.
It might be of benefit if the individual accepting the invite gets some statistical information such as current tax rate and average tax rate over 30 days.
Informed decisions are always the best.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
531
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Posted - 2015.01.20 00:45:47 -
[13] - Quote
but its not only a problem of them having higher taxes than npc corps.
they can be lower and still cause a toxic environment to new players.
do i think making it so corps cant tax with corp pvp turned off is the best idea? no but i don't think there should be no choice when a CEO decides if he wants it on or off. isn't that the reason we got rid of clone grades?
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14554
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Posted - 2015.01.20 00:47:04 -
[14] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:but its not only a problem of them having higher taxes than npc corps.
they can be lower and still cause a toxic environment to new players.
do i think making it so corps cant tax with corp pvp turned off is the best idea? no but i don't think there should be no choice when a CEO decides if he wants it on or off. isn't that the reason we got rid of clone grades?
They aren't turning off PvP.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
592
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Posted - 2015.01.20 01:01:58 -
[15] - Quote
See although it saddens me that I may not be able to fulfill my ambitions of nuking an entire incursion or mining fleet with minimal risk to myself... The whole friendly fire switch I think will be a good edition to the game so long as there are PROMPTS to ensure that people aren't accidentally blowing their ships up (Such as Safety settings). Also maybe there should be a waiting period where a mail is set out when it is turned on or off (Similar to how War Decs are done) in order to ensure that it isn't switched on and off just to screw with people.
Even though it does mean you can recruit more people without as much worries. It makes sense - Just because I work at Google doesn't mean I can start blasting away my fellow employees without police intervention. It is quite disruptive when someone does that. |
Ayara Itris
Iron.Guard
2
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Posted - 2015.01.20 08:18:49 -
[16] - Quote
A better way would be to add a CONCORD tax that would take away 10% or so from the corp taxes, thereby balancing risk/reward: you risk less and make less money. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
482
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Posted - 2015.01.20 08:57:32 -
[17] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:Even though it does mean you can recruit more people without as much worries. It makes sense - Just because I work at Google doesn't mean I can start blasting away my fellow employees without police intervention. It is quite disruptive when someone does that. While comparing Eve to real-life is never a good idea, there are many organizations in real-life that are responsible for their own internal security where the police won't go. Also, in real-life your taxes pay for those police when they do show up. NPC corp members pay taxes for their security, so why should not player corp members?
But really proposal is about game mechanic changes to an internet spaceship game. Tear Jar is right that the recent spamming changes to corp invites coupled with no-cost internal protection make have made ideal conditions for nefarious individuals to "farm" new players for taxes. I don't have numbers, but it seems reasonable (and likely) to me that new players snared by such a scam will have a terrible initial introduction to Eve and will be much more likely to quit the game.
While turning off taxes completely may go to far (but this should be the case for a "social corp" if ever implemented), some tax to CONCORD not only makes sense in the whole risk vs. reward model of the game, but will serve to limit the attractiveness of these types of scams.
+1
Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
161
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Posted - 2015.01.20 19:48:59 -
[18] - Quote
Are people really saying that newbies don't ever know how much isk they have? How do they upgrade to better ships? If they don't earn enough per tick to be taxed then it doesn't matter if tax is 100%. |
Nick Actilete
BOVRIL bOREers Mining CO-OP Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2015.01.20 23:51:59 -
[19] - Quote
I'm not the only one who thinks that the addition of the friendly fire feature is a bad idea right? I don't support AWOX'ing but this change doesn't exactly seem to be in the spirit of EVE, it makes it less of a sandbox. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
573
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Posted - 2015.01.20 23:54:39 -
[20] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:Are people really saying that newbies don't ever know how much isk they have? How do they upgrade to better ships? If they don't earn enough per tick to be taxed then it doesn't matter if tax is 100%.
what I am wondering....
My first days in eve I clicked on everything.
what's this?
wallet?
cool....lots of tabs lots of info. replaced the need to hand write notes like I did in other games to work out what pve spam was better for money making was my take away when I first saw it.
But that's me maybe, any application I get I click on everything. I paid say 50 for it well....I paid a say dollar for that button/menu option I'd be short changing myself if I didn't press it at least once lol.
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