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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Venix
An Eye For An Eye AN EYE F0R AN EYE
13
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Posted - 2015.01.21 19:32:49 -
[181] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Cista2 wrote:Ships in EVE should remain destructable. This is not a good development.
You cannot compare ship colors with character apparel, because the apparel is not used when flying ships. In-station Captain's Quarters is another game than the spaceship game EVE. If we one day were to get actual Walk-In-Stations, we would not be able to kill each other and steal/destroy each others clothes either (due to the tea spoon principle). But ships can and should be destructable.
Next will come licenses to modules that are indestructable as well and that you buy in the NES.
Ships are still destructable. The only thing you don't lose, is the option to make your ship look different (for no more isk) It's /exactly/ like clothes. It just changes the appearance of a ship that you acquired in the regular fashion.
This is NOT exactly like the clothes. Ships in this game are often signs of wealth and skill more so than any clothes will ever be. If you are willing to undock a Rattlesnake Victory Edition and pvp in it, then you are saying that you can afford to risk billions more than another players. They could remove clothes all together and it would have a negligible impact to the game.
Many players are against these new changes, and we would prefer the system to maintain total loss. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29562
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Posted - 2015.01.21 21:00:36 -
[182] - Quote
I'm loving the mock up and the specifics of the implementation. My only suggestion is make the skin interface collapsible sideways into the side of the fitting window.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Bentakhar
Minmatar Death Squad
32
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Posted - 2015.01.21 21:03:58 -
[183] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:War Kitten wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Bentakhar wrote:PLEASE CCP take a look at this: http://i.imgur.com/Mmj8jBk.jpg It could make nanocoating part of EVE by involving many other aspects of the game (some of which require attention aswell) while still involving microtransactions. Images speak louder than words. Kind Regards, Ben +1. Now that is much more eve like. Out of curiosity who produced that image? Indeed, much more Eve-like. CCP, have you ruled out a solution like this for any particular reasons? It seems much more reasonable. Not empty quoting, wondering if CCP has a response to this idea and reason why they're going the direction they've chosen over this.
It wouldn't be the first time CCP ignores capsuleer's ideas lol... But i really hope they consider it, or at least explain why they chose a different path. |
Druadan
Aliastra Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2015.01.21 21:07:47 -
[184] - Quote
I notice the devs are responding only to concerns about the interface and the mechanic of the system as described, but not anything about the concerns of this system as it is.
I want to amalgamate those concerns into a set of questions for the devs to answer:
- Over the past decade there have been several times this has been discussed and several very workable ideas have come about along the way. One such idea was approximated in this post (#150). Why has this system been developed for the Aurum stored value system instead of player industry?
- What do you have to say to the players who have no interest in microtransactions or the Aurum stored value system, but have been asking for, and looking forward to, customisable ship appearances for years?
- Why have you decided to deviate from the standard loss model in EVE? Do you not think that the need to remove the loss aspect -- one of the main things that defines EVE and makes it what it is -- from this, because you don't want people to lose real money items ingame, is a clear sign that this should not be done via real money, and instead done through player industry, like everything else in the game?
- Do you not think that the better line on which to divide things between real money and ISK is whether it's in space or in stations, rather then whether or not you consider it to be 'just a cosmetic thing'?
- Do you think our eyes are painted on?
Personally, I'm concerned that ship skins have been deliberately held back ever since the Noble Exchange / New Eden Store / Whatever You Call It was first conceived, because you knew you could use it to fill out the store, make it look more worthwhile, and earn more microtransactions. I think it's Zyngalike gouging for a feature we've been asking for for years. I'm really pissed off that, as someone who will have no truck with microtransaction or the Aurum stored value system, I won't be able to use this feature.
Let 2015 be the year that CCP ends its builtin support for metagaming.
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Pharill
An Eye For An Eye AN EYE F0R AN EYE
2
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Posted - 2015.01.21 21:13:51 -
[185] - Quote
Druadan wrote:
- Over the past decade there have been several times this has been discussed and several very workable ideas have come about along the way. One such idea was approximated in this post (#150). Why has this system been developed for the Aurum stored value system instead of player industry?
- What do you have to say to the players who have no interest in microtransactions or the Aurum stored value system, but have been asking for, and looking forward to, customisable ship appearances for years?
- Why have you decided to deviate from the standard loss model in EVE? Do you not think that the need to remove the loss aspect -- one of the main things that defines EVE and makes it what it is -- from this, because you don't want people to lose real money items ingame, is a clear sign that this should not be done via real money, and instead done through player industry, like everything else in the game?
- Do you not think that the better line on which to divide things between real money and ISK is whether it's in space or in stations, rather then whether or not you consider it to be 'just a cosmetic thing'?
- Do you think our eyes are painted on?
#3 #3 #3. Like REALLY want to know this answer |
Bentakhar
Minmatar Death Squad
32
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Posted - 2015.01.21 21:19:17 -
[186] - Quote
Druadan wrote:I notice the devs are responding only to concerns about the interface and the mechanic of the system as described, but not anything about the concerns of this system as it is.
Probably because the devs ask for our opinion when features are almost done, and when it's already too late to revert anything. Concerns are then answered with the usual 'We will be looking into that down the road" . Ship customization has been a hot topic for as long as I can remember in EVE. We are way past "down the road".
So we can expect they deploy what has been presented in the dev blog , and that system will prove not great and unimmersive and a new system will replace it . Soon (TM) |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3671
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Posted - 2015.01.21 23:15:30 -
[187] - Quote
Druadan wrote:I notice the devs are responding only to concerns about the interface and the mechanic of the system as described, but not anything about the concerns of this system as it is. I want to amalgamate those concerns into a set of questions for the devs to answer:
- Over the past decade there have been several times this has been discussed and several very workable ideas have come about along the way. One such idea was approximated in this post (#150). Why has this system been developed for the Aurum stored value system instead of player industry?
- What do you have to say to the players who have no interest in microtransactions or the Aurum stored value system, but have been asking for, and looking forward to, customisable ship appearances for years?
- Why have you decided to deviate from the standard loss model in EVE? Do you not think that the need to remove the loss aspect -- one of the main things that defines EVE and makes it what it is -- from this, because you don't want people to lose real money items ingame, is a clear sign that this should not be done via real money, and instead done through player industry, like everything else in the game?
- Do you not think that the better line on which to divide things between real money and ISK is whether it's in space or in stations, rather then whether or not you consider it to be 'just a cosmetic thing'?
- Do you think our eyes are painted on?
Personally, I'm concerned that ship skins have been deliberately held back ever since the Noble Exchange / New Eden Store / Whatever You Call It was first conceived, because you knew you could use it to fill out the store, make it look more worthwhile, and earn more microtransactions. I think it's Zyngalike gouging for a feature we've been asking for for years. I'm really pissed off that, as someone who will have no truck with microtransaction or the Aurum stored value system, I won't be able to use this feature.
Short answer: they want your money, stupid.
Long answer:
Last time I accounted it, CCP was earning about 8 months worth of subscriptions per year and account.
So if they want mote money, they must:
- earn more subscribers paying more money for the same development effort (unlikely to happen soon) - spend less developmnt effort for the same subscribers (then bad things happen) - earn more money from each subscriber with new accounts (have been doing until it's become old and exausted) - earn more money through other means
Hence microtransactions. You don't need them, but they do. Fair enough if you don't like them and not using them causes no harm to your subcription money.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Panther X
High Flyers The Kadeshi
46
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Posted - 2015.01.21 23:21:21 -
[188] - Quote
Sim Cognito wrote:It's about time. Still waiting for all those Battleship skins CCP. http://imgur.com/a/mWIrD Hopefully you will include them when the new system launches. I can't wait to get rid of camouflage.
Damn skippy. O Blood Raider Paladin, O Blood Raider Paladin, wherefore art thou???
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1881
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Posted - 2015.01.22 00:49:12 -
[189] - Quote
Likes YAY! Ship skins in a smoother form.
Neutral. No cost for ship skins. I'd like the licence to function like a BPO. So you then 'build' them at some cost to apply them to a ship. Let the application be done at any time so you can carry applications in your hold if you want, and sell them on the market even.
Bad. Aur store focus. While some skins should be Aur store a lot more skins should be LP store like the police comet. |
Ramius Decimus
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
27
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Posted - 2015.01.22 00:58:03 -
[190] - Quote
This looks great! I remember back when I first started playing in 2006, there was talk about custom paint jobs for ships among talk of walk around in stations and on planets (of which we've only seen our own quarters thus far).
Nice to see that finally this one idea has caught up to now - considering the ever increasing list of "cool things" players wish they would see in the game.
Personally, I would love to have a similar pattern paint job like the Caldari Navy uses for my own Tech 1 starships. Would be so awesome to finally be able to have a uniform pattern for the ship conventions of my corporation!
Next step to this system (img: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66830/1/SKINS.png) would be to allow capsuleers (or corporations) to be able to apply insignia/decals/images to their starships. I'd imagine, for custom ones, a similar process to either alliance logo submission or to the current ingame corporation logo creation function. Eitherway, would be fantastic to be able to see my corp's and alliance's logo painted on the hulls of my ships.
Rear Admiral
Commander-in-Chief
90th Fleet Group
CALDARI NAVY
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Noriko Mai
2022
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Posted - 2015.01.22 01:32:37 -
[191] - Quote
Another thing I would like to add:
Please make a filter for skins I own. I don't want NES/AUR advertisement while just changing skins!
Come On Everybody, support Dark Opaque theme
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Noriko Mai
2022
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Posted - 2015.01.22 01:41:56 -
[192] - Quote
Venix wrote:This is NOT exactly like the clothes. Ships in this game are often signs of wealth and skill more so than any clothes will ever be. If you are willing to undock a Rattlesnake Victory Edition and pvp in it, then you are saying that you can afford to risk billions more than another players. They could remove clothes all together and it would have a negligible impact to the game.
Many players are against these new changes, and we would prefer the system to maintain total loss. IMO not everything must follow this "total loss" rule. I'm on your side if we talk about game relevant things. E.g. ships, modules, ammunition, implants, etc. (basically everthing that gives you a +x something in stats) Things like skins or clothes that are just accessory and have absolutely no impact on mechanics don't have to follow this paradigm at all cost. It's just to show off your epeen, thats all.
Come On Everybody, support Dark Opaque theme
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Maximus Tyberius
Valhallas Gates Investment Not Yet Critical
1
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Posted - 2015.01.22 04:01:10 -
[193] - Quote
What if I already own an alliastra Incursus for example, do I get a permanent license to paint all my incursi? |
Sylveria Relden
73
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Posted - 2015.01.22 04:45:04 -
[194] - Quote
Maximus Tyberius wrote:What if I already own an alliastra Incursus for example, do I get a permanent license to paint all my incursi?
They said previously in the thread they're working on applying existing skins to the new system. Haven't yet announced it as for sure though. |
Gosti Kahanid
GANOR Deep Space Explorers GANOR INC.
92
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Posted - 2015.01.22 08:28:15 -
[195] - Quote
From the CSM-Minutes:
Quote:The topic of skins that are dropped in game was also brought up. The current desire is to make them time limited so as to not destroy the value over time. This would also open up the potential for trial skins so people can try before they buy.
this eliminates all concerns I had with the new Licence-System. Skins you bought with real Money should be permanent, those who drop or you can buy in a LP-Store should eather expire or be destroyed when your Ship blows up |
Krakil Frostborn
Sleeper Slumber Party Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2015.01.22 09:04:11 -
[196] - Quote
YES! Awesome idea, please make this happen! I imagine now that they are permanent , prices are like 1b a skin? hehe whatever I am using it :) |
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
44
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Posted - 2015.01.22 10:15:51 -
[197] - Quote
Is there going to be a cool transition animation as you activate/change SKINs? |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5826
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Posted - 2015.01.22 11:08:52 -
[198] - Quote
It would be nice to hear from some CSM members here too... Presumably CCP bounced this idea off them first and they must have had a reaction one way or the other. If they approved it as is, I don't think they gave it much consideration at all.
Personally, I don't mind the microtransaction model. But this isn't going to be micro, its going to be medium-to-macro transactions because these are permanent items once you buy and apply them. This is the wrong way to do micro transactions CCP. For all of their study on ways to make money on micro transactions, they continue to get it wrong.
Come on CCP, you've been all over this thread with responses - let's have some answers why you chose this model. Why aren't paintjobs going to be items on the fitting screen? Why are they permanent, just because people will have to pay for them with Aurum? That's not a good enough reason, and in the long run it will cripple your ability to actually make money off the feature.
Simple solution: Make them destructible items, reusable on appropriate ships, applied like any other fitting module, and heck even make industry happy by letting them build the module after the appropriate frequency modulating crystal whatzamajigger is purchased with Aurum - for a small price.
Eve is about the only game I will ever spend money on microtransactions, because Eve is the only game I care about. But I won't do it until you actually get it right.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5826
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Posted - 2015.01.22 11:32:53 -
[199] - Quote
Whoa, I just found the CSM meeting notes are already coming out....
Quote:Xander asked about the limited time system for skins, and when the time limit would start. The answer was that it would start from being applied to a character, and you can't remove it from your collection once applied.
"limited time system"??
So I guess they aren't going to be permanent either - they'll arbitrarily wear out after a timer expires?
No Thank You. Not even interested anymore.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
277
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Posted - 2015.01.22 11:45:48 -
[200] - Quote
Sounds like World of Tanks camo system before it started to affect actual visibility of the vehicle. Temporary paint for "silver", permanent paint for "gold".
*sigh*
Oh well, bring it on anyway, I still want to paint my flying wrecks in pretty colors.
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Sylveria Relden
73
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Posted - 2015.01.22 11:58:22 -
[201] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Whoa, I just found the CSM meeting notes are already coming out.... Quote:Xander asked about the limited time system for skins, and when the time limit would start. The answer was that it would start from being applied to a character, and you can't remove it from your collection once applied. "limited time system"?? So I guess they aren't going to be permanent either - they'll arbitrarily wear out after a timer expires? No Thank You. Not even interested anymore.
I believe the time limitation system they're referring to means before the item is claimed and used from the time it's dropped, rather than "how long it lasts when it's applied". This isn't a time limit on the licenses purchased for the account itself, if what I'm reading is accurate. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4738
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Posted - 2015.01.22 11:58:25 -
[202] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Whoa, I just found the CSM meeting notes are already coming out.... Quote:Xander asked about the limited time system for skins, and when the time limit would start. The answer was that it would start from being applied to a character, and you can't remove it from your collection once applied. "limited time system"?? So I guess they aren't going to be permanent either - they'll arbitrarily wear out after a timer expires? No Thank You. Not even interested anymore.
Some skins would be permanent. Like the ones you buy with Aurum.
Some would be time limited. Like the ones which drop, or you buy with LP. (so the market for them isn't murdered at birth)
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
948
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Posted - 2015.01.22 12:01:42 -
[203] - Quote
CCP Terminus wrote:The Slayer wrote:CCP Terminus wrote:You don't have to be docked in order to change your SKIN. When jumping in to a ship in space you can simply go into the fitting window, which is accessible in space and change it there. The ship will then immediately change to your new SKIN choice. And this is how I get my account banned, by designing a hook which ties into the fitting window and changes my ship skin between all available iterations 10 times a second. We will be throttling the number of times you can change SKINs for obvious reasons. It will most likely be much faster while docked, and a reasonable (undetermined at this time) length in space. So you'll pick a new SKIN, the ship will do a nice transition effect, and then you have to wait X amount of time to do it again.
I bet the goons will find a way to make hypnotoad fleets, or make a massive grid of ships and then orchestrate stills. I envision dickbuttes on 100x100km video walls outside Jita 4-4.
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5826
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Posted - 2015.01.22 12:09:17 -
[204] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:War Kitten wrote:Whoa, I just found the CSM meeting notes are already coming out.... Quote:Xander asked about the limited time system for skins, and when the time limit would start. The answer was that it would start from being applied to a character, and you can't remove it from your collection once applied. "limited time system"?? So I guess they aren't going to be permanent either - they'll arbitrarily wear out after a timer expires? No Thank You. Not even interested anymore. Some skins would be permanent. Like the ones you buy with Aurum. Some would be time limited. Like the ones which drop, or you buy with LP. (so the market for them isn't murdered at birth)
So the ones we pay money for are permanent and fail to fit into the economy properly and fail to create a revenue stream, the ones that drop are worthless. Roger.
I still don't like it. Why are CCP going this route with applying skins to your character instead of to an item you fit to the ship?
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
948
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Posted - 2015.01.22 12:12:16 -
[205] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:I still don't like it. Why are CCP going this route with applying skins to your character instead of to an item you fit to the ship?
As stated; so that people will actually bother with them. I'd say a large amount of people are holding back on the current skins simply because they can be destroyed. Would I like this to remain a pure sandbox where things can be destroyed etc? Yes, but at the same time I want skins and realise that CCP is in it to make money.
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5827
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Posted - 2015.01.22 12:23:15 -
[206] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:War Kitten wrote:I still don't like it. Why are CCP going this route with applying skins to your character instead of to an item you fit to the ship?
As stated; so that people will actually bother with them. I'd say a large amount of people are holding back on the current skins simply because they can be destroyed. Would I like this to remain a pure sandbox where things can be destroyed etc? Yes, but at the same time I want skins and realise that CCP is in it to make money.
I would suggest people are holding back on the current system because they require you to destroy your rigs to apply them. I don't go through ships like they're throwaway items - I tend not to explode if I can help it. If I want to apply skins, I have to strip the rigs and re-manufacture my ship. Not gonna happen.
I know this is true for myself and most of the people I talk to. One flawed implementation fixed by another flawed one does not make things better - it just makes it different. We all knew that the current situation was temporary because it was a poor choice to have to destroy your rigs. But measuring popularity of the system based on its current implementation is flawed too.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Bentakhar
Minmatar Death Squad
35
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Posted - 2015.01.22 12:32:10 -
[207] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:War Kitten wrote:I still don't like it. Why are CCP going this route with applying skins to your character instead of to an item you fit to the ship?
As stated; so that people will actually bother with them. I'd say a large amount of people are holding back on the current skins simply because they can be destroyed. Would I like this to remain a pure sandbox where things can be destroyed etc? Yes, but at the same time I want skins and realise that CCP is in it to make money. I would suggest people are holding back on the current system because they require you to destroy your rigs to apply them. I don't go through ships like they're throwaway items - I tend not to explode if I can help it. If I want to apply skins, I have to strip the rigs and re-manufacture my ship. Not gonna happen. I know this is true for myself and most of the people I talk to. One flawed implementation fixed by another flawed one does not make things better - it just makes it different. We all knew that the current situation was temporary because it was a poor choice to have to destroy your rigs. But measuring popularity of the system based on its current implementation is flawed too.
true, the only skins i bought so far were for small ships that were not rigged. I held back on the gorgeous aliastra hyperion because i'm not trashing out 3 large rigs.
Limited time on SKINs? CCP has skillz in killing possibly great features.
Soon(tm) they'll open the door which is gonna end up leading to a broom closet?
And its safe to bet the player owned stargates are gonna cost aurum and lead only to Jita? |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
948
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Posted - 2015.01.22 12:35:39 -
[208] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:War Kitten wrote:I still don't like it. Why are CCP going this route with applying skins to your character instead of to an item you fit to the ship?
As stated; so that people will actually bother with them. I'd say a large amount of people are holding back on the current skins simply because they can be destroyed. Would I like this to remain a pure sandbox where things can be destroyed etc? Yes, but at the same time I want skins and realise that CCP is in it to make money. I would suggest people are holding back on the current system because they require you to destroy your rigs to apply them. I don't go through ships like they're throwaway items - I tend not to explode if I can help it. If I want to apply skins, I have to strip the rigs and re-manufacture my ship. Not gonna happen. I know this is true for myself and most of the people I talk to. One flawed implementation fixed by another flawed one does not make things better - it just makes it different. We all knew that the current situation was temporary because it was a poor choice to have to destroy your rigs. But measuring popularity of the system based on its current implementation is flawed too.
I'm sure that's also part of it but then again, ships blow up and when you decide to buy a new one you can decide to get the skinned one right from the start. Either way, the system they're working on also solves the problem you mentioned.
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5827
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Posted - 2015.01.22 12:45:52 -
[209] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:I'm sure that's also part of it but then again, ships blow up and when you decide to buy a new one you can decide to get the skinned one right from the start. Either way, the system they're working on also solves the problem you mentioned.
Adding a drive-thru paint booth would solve the problem too, but it wouldn't fit in with the way Eve works, and neither does this system.
Eve is built on industry and the market and items being created and destroyed. These are the things that are valuable to players. Building a feature outside of this framework the way they're doing SKINS just doesn't fit right, and to me, becomes less desirable.
If I can loot it, steal it, or build it, I've accomplished something. If I can still lose it or have it taken away, it's something I'll protect.
If I just buy it once for Aurum and can always have it, just like every other person has it, there's no accomplishment. There's no value, its just a vanity item - another $1000 pair of jeans to me.
I can't wait to see what the monetization team thinks is a reasonable price for these skins when they know people will only buy them once, if ever.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Sylveria Relden
73
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Posted - 2015.01.22 12:54:42 -
[210] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:I'm sure that's also part of it but then again, ships blow up and when you decide to buy a new one you can decide to get the skinned one right from the start. Either way, the system they're working on also solves the problem you mentioned.
Adding a drive-thru paint booth would solve the problem too, but it wouldn't fit in with the way Eve works, and neither does this system. Eve is built on industry and the market and items being created and destroyed. These are the things that are valuable to players. Building a feature outside of this framework the way they're doing SKINS just doesn't fit right, and to me, becomes less desirable. If I can loot it, steal it, or build it, I've accomplished something. If I can still lose it or have it taken away, it's something I'll protect. If I just buy it once for Aurum and can always have it, just like every other person has it, there's no accomplishment. There's no value, its just a vanity item - another $1000 pair of jeans to me. I can't wait to see what the monetization team thinks is a reasonable price for these skins when they know people will only buy them once, if ever.
Lots of other "vanity" items exist the same way in EVE- clothing, tattoos, goggles, etc. Unless the item is transported as "not equipped" then it's non-destructible, no? |
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