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Lexmana
Imperial Stout
74
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
A lot of threads have started after crucible patch whining about the new PI taxes (and base prices). The whining focuses on the fact that staying with the NPC-corp customs offices in null and low means drastically increased production costs. Also, the only way to reduce this costs is to run player owned custom offices (POCOS) and they cost ISK and can be destroyed by a small gang.
Guess what, it was intended! And it was great buff to small gang warfare.
Stop the whining bears. Pay the price and adapt GÇô and keep up the good job CCP. |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
133
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
I really fail to see how it is a buff to small gang. The price of PI would have to raise astronomically to justify the cost of fighting over it. So high, in fact, that high sec PI would be justifiable.
90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed. |
Castor II
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
JitaJane wrote:I really fail to see how it is a buff to small gang. The price of PI would have to raise astronomically to justify the cost of fighting over it. So high, in fact, that high sec PI would be justifiable.
That's not how PvP works. If it can be shot at, you can bet your ass that someone WILL shoot it. |
Russell Casey
One Ton Reverberation Project
107
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Castor II wrote:JitaJane wrote:I really fail to see how it is a buff to small gang. The price of PI would have to raise astronomically to justify the cost of fighting over it. So high, in fact, that high sec PI would be justifiable. That's not how PvP works. If it can be shot at, you can bet your ass that someone WILL shoot it.
"Look, Ned, a Customs Officer. IT'S COMING RIGHT AT US!" *Bang* |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
74
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Castor II wrote:JitaJane wrote:I really fail to see how it is a buff to small gang. The price of PI would have to raise astronomically to justify the cost of fighting over it. So high, in fact, that high sec PI would be justifiable. That's not how PvP works. If it can be shot at, you can bet your ass that someone WILL shoot it.
This ^^.
And it might not represent enough value for you to concur it but plenty of value to your enemy to motivate you to destroy it. |
Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
12
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Castor II wrote:JitaJane wrote:I really fail to see how it is a buff to small gang. The price of PI would have to raise astronomically to justify the cost of fighting over it. So high, in fact, that high sec PI would be justifiable. That's not how PvP works. If it can be shot at, you can bet your ass that someone WILL shoot it.
And that's how the Low-sec Dwellers may find a new purpouse in hold and maintain a running customs office as a new source of income as pirating.
All you need it's a group dedicated to keep the customs at decent tax and always running so they can get free isk for PI runners and this should grant another reason to fight over it, instead roam just smack the customs and awit until the opposing group comes.
Now if CCP can fix the Hot dropping in lo-sec to screw big alliances on fighting over customs.... |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
133
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
All well and good. So you expect small gangs to fight because????? What? Who is going to be having these fights? The same people fighting over low sec minig I suppose.....
90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
596
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:A lot of threads have started after crucible patch whining about the new PI taxes (and base prices). The whining focuses on the fact that staying with the NPC-corp customs offices in null and low means drastically increased production costs. Also, the only way to reduce this costs is to run player owned custom offices (POCOS) and they cost ISK and can be destroyed by a small gang.
Guess what, it was intended! And it was great buff to small gang warfare.
Stop the whining bears. Pay the price and adapt GÇô and keep up the good job CCP.
You seem to fail to realize that this will reduce PvP. People will (and currently are already) give up their PI in lowsec... the risk/reward is no longer worth it. That means less people traveling into low. So as you fly around low looking at those planets with no customs offices (you blew them up and got no killmails) and no PCOs (wasn't worth losing more than one, so people stopped putting them up), think about this day and the dreams you had that were never realized. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
74
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
JitaJane wrote:All well and good. So you expect small gangs to fight because????? What? Who is going to be having these fights? The same people fighting over low sec minig I suppose.....
I expect small gang guerilla warfare everywhere - that is in low, noll and wh space.
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
339
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:A lot of threads have started after crucible patch whining about the new PI taxes (and base prices). The whining focuses on the fact that staying with the NPC-corp customs offices in null and low means drastically increased production costs. Also, the only way to reduce this costs is to run player owned custom offices (POCOS) and they cost ISK and can be destroyed by a small gang.
Guess what, it was intended! And it was great buff to small gang warfare.
Stop the whining bears. Pay the price and adapt GÇô and keep up the good job CCP.
Sadly, this is a hit to small gang roaming PvP in low sec. PI bears will leave low sec because they won't risk the isks or can't defend a PoCo. All this does is drive a segment of folks out of low sec.
If you are inclined to fight over your PoCo I expect you are already savy enough to be in null and making much more isks for less risks as you have more options to control a system there (or you are a WH explorer type and again making more isks for less risks).
This just gives less folks to shoot at in low sec. Not good for anyone.
Issler |
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Pavel Bidermann
whips chains and ballgags Care Factor
11
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Brace for some expensive POS fuel maintenance!
Yes you can build your own player-owned customs offices but since they can and will be destroyed, the higher tax but reliably stable NPC offices are your best bet in the long run. They will be expensive but they will always produce, unlike player-owned ones. The extra cost will be passed on to the customer.
Now, how about those stronger, up-to-date market tracking tools CCP? I would like a version of Morningstar reports in-game updating every 3 hours. Will subscribe for 50 isk a day. A longer subscription for a discount, naturally. |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
133
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:JitaJane wrote:All well and good. So you expect small gangs to fight because????? What? Who is going to be having these fights? The same people fighting over low sec minig I suppose..... I expect small gang guerilla warfare everywhere - that is in low, noll and wh space. It is nice to have expectations I agree. So why tak about PI if what you expect is small gang warfare?
90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
74
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Posted - 2011.11.30 19:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
JitaJane wrote:Lexmana wrote:JitaJane wrote:All well and good. So you expect small gangs to fight because????? What? Who is going to be having these fights? The same people fighting over low sec minig I suppose..... I expect small gang guerilla warfare everywhere - that is in low, noll and wh space. It is nice to have expectations I agree. So why tak about PI if what you expect is small gang warfare?
It gives objectives for small gangs in many situations, even in alliance warfare, since (see below)
Lexmana wrote:And it might not represent enough value for you to concur it but plenty of value to your enemy to motivate you to destroy it. |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
133
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Posted - 2011.11.30 20:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
So the same folks who fight over POSs now have a new thing to fight over. Define 'small gang' for me. Hot dropping carriers does not fit my definition.
90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed. |
Thomas Orca
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
20
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Posted - 2011.11.30 20:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Those customs offices are the perfect target for small gangs with their millions of EHP and reinforcement timers that are set by the owners.
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Lexmana
Imperial Stout
74
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Posted - 2011.11.30 20:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thomas Orca wrote:Those customs offices are the perfect target for small gangs with their millions of EHP and reinforcement timers that are set by the owners.
Try to attack more than one. Increase your targets to split their forces. |
Cloora
APEX Unlimited APEX Conglomerate
37
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Posted - 2011.11.30 20:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
The OP read my mind. This is a buff to anti pies and pirates alike. CEO and Major ShareholderAPEX ConglomerateMaker of Starsi softdrinks and Torped-Os! Cereal http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
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Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
596
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Posted - 2011.11.30 20:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cloora wrote:The OP read my mind. This is a buff to anti pies and pirates alike.
How does making people give up low sec PI, and therefore trips into low sec, buff pirates? Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Fung Ku
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
1
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Posted - 2011.11.30 20:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
lolPI |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1058
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Posted - 2011.11.30 20:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
JitaJane wrote:So the same folks who fight over POSs now have a new thing to fight over. Define 'small gang' for me. Hot dropping carriers does not fit my definition.
they don't exist lmao |
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
210
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Posted - 2011.11.30 20:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:A lot of threads have started after crucible patch whining about the new PI taxes (and base prices). The whining focuses on the fact that staying with the NPC-corp customs offices in null and low means drastically increased production costs. Also, the only way to reduce this costs is to run player owned custom offices (POCOS) and they cost ISK and can be destroyed by a small gang.
Guess what, it was intended! And it was great buff to small gang warfare.
Stop the whining bears. Pay the price and adapt GÇô and keep up the good job CCP. Oh realy |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
113
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Posted - 2011.11.30 21:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
I've pulled both my alts back to empire for PI. It's a shame because it was fun dodging pirates, but now things will no longer be cost effective in lowsec. I can't afford to spend time defending a PCO there, and I will certainly not put myself at the mercy of the pirates that live there in terms of paying them taxes.
I just don't have the playtime to invest in that venture, sorry. |
Nova Valor
Nunc per Ludum
5
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Posted - 2011.11.30 21:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
I thou CCP wanted the hi-sec ppl to go low/null, but this only force small indy corp's to imigrate to hi-sec again.
Way to go CCP. |
Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
4
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Posted - 2011.11.30 21:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:I've pulled both my alts back to empire for PI. It's a shame because it was fun dodging pirates, but now things will no longer be cost effective in lowsec. I can't afford to spend time defending a PCO there, and I will certainly not put myself at the mercy of the pirates that live there in terms of paying them taxes.
I just don't have the playtime to invest in that venture, sorry. Same here. I have no idea how this might turn out at the end but for the time being I'm out of lowsec. Sorry local pirates, we had some good time together, but that's one target less for you to hunt down in future |
Nova Valor
Nunc per Ludum
5
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Posted - 2011.11.30 21:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Indeed, But as ppl have mentioned, starting to join local forces or creating new alliances is the only way to reach the higher resource planets (Wich are located in popular 0.1 - 0.2 systems.) And to somewhat keep the POCO's "Safe"
I'm one of them, As its just me, myself and i + a buddy who aint got more then 1m SP yet. And i'm not wasting my time and isk to put up new P.I colonys and POCO's in low-profit 0.4 systems. |
Sycho Pathic
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2011.11.30 21:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
The outcome seems obvious.
PI moves to HiSec. The additional expense is passed onto the market. Market stabilizes around the new, higher prices.
This is not going to bring people to Low/Null. Sorry. |
Billy Colorado
Agony Unleashed
17
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Posted - 2011.11.30 22:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
This changes PI dramatically by making it cooperative. Those who assert that low sec PI is worthless to pibears are probably correct, if said pibears are doing it solo. I see this change as a change for the better, and one that encourages group efforts; group efforts lead to group fighting, yaw. |
Xcen
Invictus Mortalitus Stainwagon.
10
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Posted - 2011.11.30 22:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
This threads interesting. Two opinions keep showing up. Low sec systems are now not worth the risk for the reward. Low can now be profitable for pirates. (If they want to defend their POCOs)
If the tax isn't high then it might still be worth using your colonies specifically if the price for the good produced goes up. Technically a low sec corp could monopolize 3-4 systems to themselves and get all the P.I. to themselves.
Time will tell. |
Minister of Death
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2011.11.30 22:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
People seem to revel i their own ignorance about this change.
This change will only damage Eve. There is not going to be more pvp over this. It is the death of PI outside of sovereignty space.
The more you post otherwise, the more you look the fool (like CCP Omen does) |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
11
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Posted - 2011.11.30 22:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote: You seem to fail to realize that this will reduce PvP. People will (and currently are already) give up their PI in lowsec... the risk/reward is no longer worth it. That means less people traveling into low. So as you fly around low looking at those planets with no customs offices (you blew them up and got no killmails) and no PCOs (wasn't worth losing more than one, so people stopped putting them up), think about this day and the dreams you had that were never realized.
^ This.
There's not enough profit in it to make it worth the risk. and if there were, we'd see a return to the bad old days of 200m isk cargo expander IIs.
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