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Abraham Vyacheslav
Vanishing Horizon Ventures Inc.
0
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Posted - 2015.01.23 08:07:17 -
[1] - Quote
Hi everyone,
I've been trying solo (read: me and a ton of alts) wormhole life recently, and absolutely love it. Cloaky stalking my hole and neighboring connections is thrilling. I'm one of those crazies who "actually likes eve" so I find every aspect fun - prepping PVP fits, running spreadsheets on gas mining, thinking through the psychology of what I leave around the POS, etc.
I'm wondering if people have any industry tips. Logistics aren't simple (my hole has no direct K-space connection), and I've noticed a few things would be much easier if I'd worked through some industry numbers before hauling things directly. POS ECM batteries, for example, can be quickly constructed out of a tiny volume of materials relative to the amount of space they take in an industrial! And of course, creating POS fuel in the hole doesn't save much space, but the ability to make runs using the Miasmos (compressed ice) and Epithal (PI product components) significantly reduces the risk and/or skill requirements.
Does anybody else have any logistical/industry tips for somebody just getting to know the space?
Thanks! |
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
367
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Posted - 2015.01.23 11:10:14 -
[2] - Quote
I ran research and invention labs, built T2 rigs out of the exploration loot I gathered from C1-3 holes, and POS fuel manufacturing from PI stuff paid for all the upkeep costs (and some.) T2 rig manufacturing is pretty profitable, invention is more for fun unless you have cheap sources of T2 materials.
PI in wormholes really is a no-brainer, it's can be a bit tedious to set up, but after you got it running it's like free isk, easy to make enough to cover the running costs of wh life.
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1029
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Posted - 2015.01.23 16:57:41 -
[3] - Quote
Start gas reactions, but keep it small. You can fit a basic gas reaction in a large pos and keep the pos functional. If you want to make this easy and casual, don't react high end gasses, do low end ones. They are less m3, less hauling, reacts for longer as they take up less m3 for the silo's. You don't need a reaction farm, and you don't need to dedicate a pos for doing mass reactions.
Keep it simple, keep it a side job. You can set a basic one up 3 silos, one small silo, and the reactor, to run for a week without refilling it every damn day.
Yaay!!!!
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Abraham Vyacheslav
Vanishing Horizon Ventures Inc.
0
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Posted - 2015.01.23 17:51:02 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks for the tips!
On gas, I ran some numbers - not all of them, but my initial results suggest high-end gas reactions mostly help reduce the size of the gas without adding much profit, while lower-end gas reactions provide more of a profitability increase but less of a size reduction?
Is that right, or is it hard to say because it fluctuates so much? |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
170
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Posted - 2015.01.23 20:08:47 -
[5] - Quote
Abraham Vyacheslav wrote:Thanks for the tips!
On gas, I ran some numbers - not all of them, but my initial results suggest high-end gas reactions mostly help reduce the size of the gas without adding much profit, while lower-end gas reactions provide more of a profitability increase but less of a size reduction?
Is that right, or is it hard to say because it fluctuates so much?
Generally true. Check markets if you're actually importing the stuff. Personally, I use reactors to make it smaller to haul out, with the price increase just being an ancillary benefit.
Yeah, well, it's just like my-áopinion, man.
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Lloyd Roses
808
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Posted - 2015.01.23 22:36:32 -
[6] - Quote
If you got biopaste, data chips and nanites avaiable, logistics becomes a nobrainer with nanite paste. Wouldn't talk to highly about the income.
I GÖÑ Sleipnir
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1031
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Posted - 2015.01.23 23:33:03 -
[7] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:If you got biopaste, data chips and nanites avaiable, logistics becomes a nobrainer with nanite paste. Wouldn't talk to highly about the income.
You lose out on profit, but you trade money for m3. The m3 shrinkage is enormous.
What would take a freighter you could haul in a frigate.
That'd be a 3 billion isk frigate though. Didn't run the numbers but it's a huge m3 reduction.
Yaay!!!!
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Lloyd Roses
808
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Posted - 2015.01.24 00:10:10 -
[8] - Quote
it's about 1:200 I think.
I GÖÑ Sleipnir
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Abraham Vyacheslav
Vanishing Horizon Ventures Inc.
1
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Posted - 2015.01.24 00:42:06 -
[9] - Quote
I actually picked a hole based on terrible PI, on the theory it would deter attackers by making it look unattractive.
I don't even have 5 planets |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1035
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Posted - 2015.01.26 15:58:34 -
[10] - Quote
Abraham Vyacheslav wrote:I actually picked a hole based on terrible PI, on the theory it would deter attackers by making it look unattractive. I don't even have 5 planets
There's a reason those aren't preferable holes. The amount of planets won't deter attackers. They'll kill you all the same.
People don't siege holes based on the pi.
If you have the option, upgrade the hole to something that has lavas and barrens. If you could get a plasma, fantastic, those are rare though. It's better to have more planets than less. You are harder to cloaky camp because there are more planets to camp (worst case scenario, you lose a million isk hauler).
Yaay!!!!
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Dracones
Tarsis Inc
40
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Posted - 2015.01.26 16:20:46 -
[11] - Quote
Abraham Vyacheslav wrote: Does anybody else have any logistical/industry tips for somebody just getting to know the space?
If you haven't yet, skill into deep space transports. They hold a massive amount of volume in their fleet hangers(60k m3), can tank 50k+ EHP and have 2 points of stability built in. It makes logistics so much easier. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
262
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Posted - 2015.01.26 16:54:37 -
[12] - Quote
Well if you want a laugh have a look at my killboard.. i mean death board. That was the first time in a dread. Fun times.
Back on topic. t2 Haulers are a must. I limped around for ages with t1 and it is crap. t2 dead space haulers tank for brief periods like a SOB, and cloakys are perfect for blue loot. Even with sub optimal exits you can often make runs.
Finally depending on the type of hole your in, a few BS+ a HIC to collapse entries etc are also pretty useful. The new higgs rig makes this really awesome.
As for manufacturing, we run a few larges POSes. It is hard to get enough ticking over with the CPU/PG. We hate PI and don't do it anymore.
We have a google doc setup with XML eve api, it updates what we expect to make on everything live. So we can adjust to the market quickly. We have a few well skilled indie toons, the rest is all PvP with skill spilling over into PVE anyway. Fleets of ventures for gas mining for the win. Raiding for more gas is almost always needed of course. We always end up with a lot of one of them that we don't really need.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
78
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Posted - 2015.01.26 21:09:38 -
[13] - Quote
Depending on what industry your doing exactly, you're better off in highsec. Gas reactions are the only thing worth doing in wspace. Manufacturing, yeah you'll either need a massive mining fleet or haul in minerals from highsec. Same with t2 complex reactions. Researching almost worthless bpo's can be done. Start researching cap bpo's & you'll quickly realize how bad an idea that is in wspace.
One more thing, you can't manafacture pos modules at a pos. All that is done in stations. |
Abraham Vyacheslav
Vanishing Horizon Ventures Inc.
2
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Posted - 2015.01.26 21:22:42 -
[14] - Quote
Thanks for the advice everyone!
Adoris Nolen wrote:One more thing, you can't manafacture pos modules at a pos. All that is done in stations.
Wow I'm glad you mentioned that... it's a pain in the ass to figure out exactly what modules can and can't be manufactured at each POS assembly array, since there's overlap and exceptions and the user interface is lacking until you've deployed the array.
Is there anything else that can only be assembled in a station, not at a POS? |
Arnld Jackson
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.01.27 02:43:52 -
[15] - Quote
First, get out of the hole you are in and find one you can do PI in, or go be a nomad in a shattered system.
Use a carrier for ship storage instead of a SMA. If you are in a C4 or lower, build a carrier. Once you have a carrier, you can build fighters. You get a little bit of added value and some mineral compression. Plus you don't have to worry about losing fighters.
Use a small POS with minimal defenses. Small POS = less fuel to haul. If someone wants to burn you down, they won't care what how big your POS is or how many defenses it has, so keep it as disposable as possible. Don't anchor an SMA or CHA, that just gives them a reason to burn you down. People will still reinforce you just for fun, so keep 24 hours of stront in the tower. They won't hang around for 24 hours and lose their connection home just to burn down a worthless POS.
Have an alt logged off at a safe spot in an orca or freighter, and keep anything and everything of value on him. And only log him in when you have no K162's and your static hasn't been activated. Store a spare POS or two on this guy in case the worst happens. |
Abraham Vyacheslav
Vanishing Horizon Ventures Inc.
2
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Posted - 2015.01.27 04:14:14 -
[16] - Quote
That seems a little over the top... I considered something similar initially, but a large deathstar in a C4 should be a pretty thorough deterrent. In my travels so far almost every POS I have come across has been in a more desirable system with worse defenses.
I'm not saying nobody will ever coming knocking, but it seems like long odds. I've also made sure to establish "home" in such a way that a siege won't be ruinous (DSTs with loot in the SMA, rather than storing anything valuable in CPU-requiring array, etc.).
Critically, being able to anchor an SMA means easier volume. If I want to keep a bunch of hole-rolling battleships around, for example, a carrier and an orca would be stuffed to the gills.
To say nothing of the actual construction... wouldn't you need to anchor a CSA for two weeks? That would be insane in a small POS, and if you're already hauling in a large to protect it... meh
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Zekora Rally
U2EZ
5
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Posted - 2015.01.28 03:30:26 -
[17] - Quote
Since you are just starting out, I was going to advice you to not go with a large POS but you seem to have already set shop. My strategy is to move my valuables to highsec asap so my CHA & SMA doesn't fill up with too much stuff. This way, I can just log off in haulers and my ratting ship denying my siegers everything but POS mod kills. In most cases, you'll have to **** people off to warrant them evicting you but other reasons aren't improbable.
Obviously, you can step up to a large when you are commited to living in wh space. |
Newt BlackCompany
BlackCompany Personal Corp
24
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Posted - 2015.01.28 07:35:04 -
[18] - Quote
Mostly, structure grinds are too boring to be worth the hassle - particularly if the tower is stronted. However, that depends on how 'rich' you look. Don't put up an XLSMA, for example. :)
Also, minimize the CHA's and SMA's, take down any non-defense modules you aren't currently using, and minimize the ships you have in the hole. Similarly, haul out your loot regularly to minimize your isk-exposure if the worst happens.
Never log out inside your pos, but always safe-log in a safe spot.
Finally, if the barbarians are about to take the pos, it's better to sacrifice your fancy ships to bob than to allow them to profit. Make a nice fireworks show of self-destructing your fully loaded carrier.
Also, try not to make enemies. Nobody is going to bother with your pos unless they a) think it's profitable or b) really want to hear your screams. |
Abraham Vyacheslav
Vanishing Horizon Ventures Inc.
2
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Posted - 2015.01.28 07:57:33 -
[19] - Quote
Thanks for the advice!
A few follow up questions on logging off, if you don't mind:
(1) Is the reason not to log off in the pos the risk of bubbles/destroyed POS before you return? That makes sense, I just want to make sure I understand the mechanic in play. I suppose logging off elsewhere also delays intel to anybody watching the POS for activity?
(2) If the system allows, would a deep safe (off d-scan from all celestials) be preferred, or one very close to the POS for quick warping in if necessary?
(3) Is there an exception for alts meant to man POS guns who can't fly, or else aren't flying, interdiction nullified vessels?
Thanks again for the tips! |
Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
51
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Posted - 2015.01.28 08:54:40 -
[20] - Quote
Abraham Vyacheslav wrote:Thanks for the advice!
A few follow up questions on logging off, if you don't mind:
(1) Is the reason not to log off in the pos the risk of bubbles/destroyed POS before you return? That makes sense, I just want to make sure I understand the mechanic in play. I suppose logging off elsewhere also delays intel to anybody watching the POS for activity?
(2) If the system allows, would a deep safe (off d-scan from all celestials) be preferred, or one very close to the POS for quick warping in if necessary?
(3) Is there an exception for alts meant to man POS guns who can't fly, or else aren't flying, interdiction nullified vessels?
Thanks again for the tips!
(1) exactly
(2) I thought deep safes were disabled long ago. However, this dpends on the hole and the ships. In a big hole I would log the loot pinata outside of most dscans. If you are flying a blockade runer or a cov ops you may logg near e center and simply closk up on entering.
(3) dedicated pos gunners who do nothing but that still may get caught in a bubble. I would rather warp to the pos after having someone else scout than have the gunner bubbled. |
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Newt BlackCompany
BlackCompany Personal Corp
24
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Posted - 2015.01.28 10:07:43 -
[21] - Quote
Abraham Vyacheslav wrote:Thanks for the advice!
A few follow up questions on logging off, if you don't mind:
(1) Is the reason not to log off in the pos the risk of bubbles/destroyed POS before you return? That makes sense, I just want to make sure I understand the mechanic in play. I suppose logging off elsewhere also delays intel to anybody watching the POS for activity?
(2) If the system allows, would a deep safe (off d-scan from all celestials) be preferred, or one very close to the POS for quick warping in if necessary?
(3) Is there an exception for alts meant to man POS guns who can't fly, or else aren't flying, interdiction nullified vessels?
Thanks again for the tips!
Remember that wherever you log off outside of a station, when you log in, your ship automatically warps back to your log-off point. If your POS is under attack and surrounded by bubbles (usually the first thing people do when they attack a pos - if they are serious about taking it out), then your auto-warping ship will get stuck in a bubble, and probably pointed-scrammed-webbed-smashed, and then your pod will follow so you will wake up in hisec unable to do anything about your pos, and probably lacking a chain to find your way back. (You do have scanning alts with probes logged out in safe spots in that hole, right?)
I think you will be ok if you logged out in an interdictor or an interdiction nullified T3, but I've never tested it. Better not to risk it and just get into the habit of logging out in safe spots.
Deep-safes are great if you have them. I wish I could figure out a way to make one in my system. Currently, my safe is within dscan range of my pos, but outside scan range of other celestials. If I'm under attack, I'll hopefully at least see the bubbles before warping in.
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Abraham Vyacheslav
Vanishing Horizon Ventures Inc.
2
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Posted - 2015.01.28 17:51:15 -
[22] - Quote
Newt BlackCompany wrote:
Remember that wherever you log off outside of a station, when you log in, your ship automatically warps back to your log-off point. If your POS is under attack and surrounded by bubbles (usually the first thing people do when they attack a pos - if they are serious about taking it out), then your auto-warping ship will get stuck in a bubble, and probably pointed-scrammed-webbed-smashed
Are you sure about that mechanic? My understanding is that you are immune to bubbles during the initial warp when you first log on (emergency warp, unlike a regular warp). This means you would wind up inside of your pos but, if the attackers were thorough, unable to warp out once you land (without trickery, like MJD/nullification/slowboating while they're not watching). I don't think there is any IMMEDIATE risk to your ship or pod as long as the POS shield is still there when you log on.
Can anybody confirm? This thread is old, but its discussion matches my understanding: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1524439
If that's right, then certain characters (pos gunners without nullified vessels) are probably best served logging off inside the POS? So that during a siege you can get to your stash of ships and the manual controls of the deathstar...
EDIT: Here is more detail and a more recent post on the technicalities: http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1cj1zo/logging_off_in_a_pos/c9h1sbh |
Abraham Vyacheslav
Vanishing Horizon Ventures Inc.
2
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Posted - 2015.01.29 02:05:07 -
[23] - Quote
Aha, I've found a dev post confirming my thoughts - from 2012, but still directly on point: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1838690#post1838690 |
Latin Lez
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.02.10 22:09:13 -
[24] - Quote
Without a doubt change your WH to one with good pi 6 alts will make you upto 6.25k of nanite paste per day which at todays price in jita is approximately 125-130m isk per day. Now you won't be able to make paste everyday due to the hole being unsafe, holes etc. preferably a C4 hole is best purely due to amount of holes in lower class systems. This still leaves enough pi to make pos fuel for a faction tower ,but you do need all 6 toons to have 6 planets , a cloaky transporter is perfect for moving the paste and any blue loot Hope this is of use to you! |
Newt BlackCompany
BlackCompany Personal Corp
27
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Posted - 2015.02.11 06:36:28 -
[25] - Quote
Abraham Vyacheslav wrote: Are you sure about that mechanic? My understanding is that you are immune to bubbles during the initial warp when you first log on (emergency warp, unlike a regular warp). This means you would wind up inside of your pos but, if the attackers were thorough, unable to warp out once you land (without trickery, like MJD/nullification/slowboating while they're not watching). I don't think there is any IMMEDIATE risk to your ship or pod as long as the POS shield is still there when you log on.
Ahh, thanks. That's good to know. I'd just always assumed I'd get caught if I warped in and never bothered to test it.
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