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Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
468
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Posted - 2015.01.23 22:43:13 -
[1] - Quote
One of the more vexing issues facing advocates for new t2 ships is what role t2 versions of the rokh, abaddon, hyperion and maelstrom would fit, and how they would be balanced. I have specific idea in mind for them as passive fleet boosters in the same way that Titans give out passive bonuses, albeit with these being *significantly* less powerful.
These would be a natural step up from Command ships, and have their own unique flavor. Resist profiles would be on-par with interdictors, so they'd have a very nice tank, but not as overpowered as a HAC resist profile. I am definitely fine with reducing that down to Blops level minor resists if this it's a problem, but command ships are generally very tanky so I think it would work just fine.
DRAGON t2 Rokh, ishukone skin
8/7/4 slot layout, 8 turret slots
Caldari Battleship skill: 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 4% bonus to shield resists per level
Heavy Command Ship skill: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level, 3% increase in fleet members' Electronic Warfare module optimal range per level
ZEUS t2 Hyperion, Roden skin
7/5/7 slot layout, 6 turret slots
Gallente Battleship skill: 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to Large Armor Repair amount per level
Heavy Command Ship skill: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level, 3% reduction in fleet members' Electronic Warfare module activation cost per level.
HELLFIRE t2 Abaddon, Khanid skin
8/4/7 slot layout, 8 launcher slots
Amarr Battleship skill: 10% bonus to Torpedo, Cruise, and Heavy missile velocity 4% bonus to armor resists per level
Heavy Command Ship skill: 10% bonus to armor amount per level, 3% reduction to fleet members' turret activation cost per level
WARHAMMER T2 Maelstrom, Core Complexion skin
8/6/4 slot layout, 8 turret slots
Minmatar Battleship skill: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to Shield Booster repair amount per level
Heavy Command Ship skill: 7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret tracking speed per level, 3% reduction to fleet members' module heat damage taken per level |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
468
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Posted - 2015.01.23 23:02:28 -
[2] - Quote
Also, I didn't want to have one that reduced cap usage on local repair modules since that would unfairly benefit dreadnoughts. If you think that wouldn't be too game-breakingly significant, I'd be fine with having that as the bonus on the Zeus instead of ewar cap amount reduction. |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
245
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Posted - 2015.01.23 23:40:15 -
[3] - Quote
Not a bad idea, but I'm not sure that we're ever going to see a t2 battleship that follows the hac line. The bonuses an ship types, though there's only 4 of them, do fall in line with hac bonuses, but the command bonuses are still kind of screwed up. Cap use isn't something that's really going to matter for ewar or turret users, especially not compared to ewar optimal. The overheat is a little less powerful imo but the cap use bonus is crap. |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
468
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Posted - 2015.01.24 00:00:14 -
[4] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:Not a bad idea, but I'm not sure that we're ever going to see a t2 battleship that follows the hac line. The bonuses an ship types, though there's only 4 of them, do fall in line with hac bonuses, but the command bonuses are still kind of screwed up. Cap use isn't something that's really going to matter for ewar or turret users, especially not compared to ewar optimal. The overheat is a little less powerful imo but the cap use bonus is crap. Fair point, but what would you suggest? I'm mostly trying to find balance that isn't too terribly overpowered, and I'm of the opinion that tanking bonuses from something that doesn't sacrifice for command links (or is a supercap) would be too powerful. I figured that for turrets at least it would be useful for extended fleet engagements, especially with things like lasers.
Do you think having a 5% bonus and having the Zeus get cap reduction to repair modules be a thing, or would there be something more...unique...to apply to them instead of cap usage?
And the idea isn't so much to follow the HAC line, but more the command ship line since they follow a bit different roles and stat lines. That being said, they would make very good combat ships by themselves, although they'd be blingy as hell with costing as much if not more than a marauder |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7158
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Posted - 2015.01.24 01:03:01 -
[5] - Quote
Until warfare links apply only on grid... I'm going to have to say "no" to this idea.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
269
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Posted - 2015.01.24 01:38:52 -
[6] - Quote
Please search for the thread called "flagships" You'll find that it has been discussed quite a bit. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
551
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Posted - 2015.01.24 02:09:40 -
[7] - Quote
the caldari bonus would seem a bit off to me since a lot of there E-war ships can get over 100km optimal already
and a reduction in heat from the minmatar one would see that it would be one of the only ones used. heat reduction is extremely powerful
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
209
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Posted - 2015.01.24 14:43:51 -
[8] - Quote
Redundant post. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
561
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Posted - 2015.01.24 15:02:48 -
[9] - Quote
it is a bit redundant as to a new T2 BS but at least this one brings a new idea to the table and at least has some thought put into it
do i think it will work in EvE probably not but if some form of small titan style boosts made it in to sub cap fights it could be cool
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2286
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Posted - 2015.01.24 18:39:54 -
[10] - Quote
I'd rather not have as many bonuses to individual ships for flying in a fleet. Small gangs are already at a disadvantage for being small.
I'd be in support if these ships were like regular command ships, having to fit the same ganglink modules. That way you couldn't stack the effects from these battleships on top of other command bonuses.
CSM X: Sabriz Adoudel, Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Corbexx
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Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
471
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Posted - 2015.01.24 19:27:18 -
[11] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:the caldari bonus would seem a bit off to me since a lot of there E-war ships can get over 100km optimal already
and a reduction in heat from the minmatar one would see that it would be one of the only ones used. heat reduction is extremely powerful Do you have an idea for what might be good bonuses for them? I'm hesitant about giving them tanking bonuses since it would feel a little too overpowered. |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
471
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 19:43:28 -
[12] - Quote
EDIT: I have updated the OP with new bonuses to the caldari, gallente and amarr heavy command ships.
The Dragon now gives passive strength boosts to ECM, damp, TP, TD and webifier strength The Zeus now gets bonuses to drone effectiveness (let me know if this is too overpowered) [*] The Hellfire now gives bonuses to missile velocity and explosion radius |
Lugh Crow-Slave
563
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Posted - 2015.01.24 19:43:57 -
[13] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:I'd rather not have as many bonuses to individual ships for flying in a fleet. Small gangs are already at a disadvantage for being small.
I'd be in support if these ships were like regular command ships, having to fit the same ganglink modules. That way you couldn't stack the effects from these battleships on top of other command bonuses.
these bonuses would be like the ones on titans so no they wouldn't stack and you would still need to be in the booster slot
Catherine Laartii wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:the caldari bonus would seem a bit off to me since a lot of there E-war ships can get over 100km optimal already
and a reduction in heat from the minmatar one would see that it would be one of the only ones used. heat reduction is extremely powerful Do you have an idea for what might be good bonuses for them? I'm hesitant about giving them tanking bonuses since it would feel a little too overpowered.
not any off hand a cycle time to E-war mods may be fun to play with (my personnel favorite) or if that is to strong then maybe a sensor strength bonus (would fit with caldari ships having the highers sensor strength)
or for tank go with a bonus to shield recharge rate (this one may also be to weak for most situations but would work in a few niche roles
I don't fly many minmatar ships so that ones is a little harder for me to find one that fits that isn't already covered by a warfare link
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Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
471
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Posted - 2015.01.24 19:46:15 -
[14] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:I'd rather not have as many bonuses to individual ships for flying in a fleet. Small gangs are already at a disadvantage for being small.
I'd be in support if these ships were like regular command ships, having to fit the same ganglink modules. That way you couldn't stack the effects from these battleships on top of other command bonuses. these bonuses would be like the ones on titans so no they wouldn't stack and you would still need to be in the booster slot Catherine Laartii wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:the caldari bonus would seem a bit off to me since a lot of there E-war ships can get over 100km optimal already
and a reduction in heat from the minmatar one would see that it would be one of the only ones used. heat reduction is extremely powerful Do you have an idea for what might be good bonuses for them? I'm hesitant about giving them tanking bonuses since it would feel a little too overpowered. not any off hand a cycle time to E-war mods may be fun to play with (my personnel favorite) or if that is to strong then maybe a sensor strength bonus (would fit with caldari ships having the highers sensor strength) or for tank go with a bonus to shield recharge rate (this one may also be to weak for most situations but would work in a few niche roles I don't fly many minmatar ships so that ones is a little harder for me to find one that fits that isn't already covered by a warfare link I updated the OP with new bonuses for them; Gallente one might be adding some fuel to the fire for drones, but I think it would be useful for bigger fights involving fighters and such. |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
471
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 19:51:19 -
[15] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Until warfare links apply only on grid... I'm going to have to say "no" to this idea. While I agree with your sentiment about links needing to be on grid, you gotta admit; snuff would love using these things. |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
471
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 19:56:24 -
[16] - Quote
Arden Elenduil wrote:Please search for the thread called "flagships" You'll find that it has been discussed quite a bit. I see an old thread talking about t3 battleships. These are t2 with passive bonuses, and thus covering a different topic area. It is not a redundant thread. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
565
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Posted - 2015.01.24 19:59:32 -
[17] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote: I updated the OP with new bonuses for them; Gallente one might be adding some fuel to the fire for drones, but I think it would be useful for bigger fights involving fighters and such.
the problem with the gal one is fighters are already able to apply damage to well to sub caps even as small as cruisers as well the last thing we need is Ishtars with better tracking than they had b4 the nerf
and the caldari one would get over ridden if some one was using the same warfare link on a T3 or BC thats why i had it as cycle time rather than strength or people would just oped to use the stronger smaller (and no doubt cheaper) one on a command ship
However the problem with cycle time is it would force all E-war to use more cap however can change scripts more offten
it could could be useful on nuets if you have the cap for it(blood ships would be scary and it may need to not affect nuet/nos for this reason)
with ECM you are now in a situation where you get more roles to see if you jam but your jams don't last as long
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
29
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Posted - 2015.01.24 23:19:56 -
[18] - Quote
Hellfire, you've mentioned 3 types of missile sizes which is strange.
Next thing is dual armor bonuses (resists & hitpoints), which simply make it overetanked.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
571
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Posted - 2015.01.24 23:21:43 -
[19] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Hellfire, you've mentioned 3 types of missile sizes which is strange.
Next thing is dual armor bonuses (resists & hitpoints), which simply make it overetanked.
where have you been m8 BS have 3 missile types now Cruise Rapid heavy and torps go look at the raven, scorp, widow
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
29
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Posted - 2015.01.24 23:25:03 -
[20] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Tiddle Jr wrote:Hellfire, you've mentioned 3 types of missile sizes which is strange.
Next thing is dual armor bonuses (resists & hitpoints), which simply make it overetanked.
where have you been m8 BS have 3 missile types now Cruise Rapid heavy and torps go look at the raven, scorp, widow
I know that, and it's not a Caldari BS. |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
574
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Posted - 2015.01.24 23:37:38 -
[21] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Tiddle Jr wrote:Hellfire, you've mentioned 3 types of missile sizes which is strange.
Next thing is dual armor bonuses (resists & hitpoints), which simply make it overetanked.
where have you been m8 BS have 3 missile types now Cruise Rapid heavy and torps go look at the raven, scorp, widow I know that, and it's not a Caldari BS.
Ok and the typhoon its not a caldari only thing
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
29
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Posted - 2015.01.25 00:28:03 -
[22] - Quote
Oh c'mon stop baiting words.
A fire from he'll which is a hellfire is more associated with lasors than rockets. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
574
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Posted - 2015.01.25 00:47:33 -
[23] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Oh c'mon stop baiting words.
A fire from he'll which is a hellfire is more associated with lasors than rockets.
hell fire missiles?
i think it's fitting
Fuel block colors
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
29
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Posted - 2015.01.25 01:03:20 -
[24] - Quote
lol I ruined my own concept of heaven and hell
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Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
471
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Posted - 2015.01.25 03:43:01 -
[25] - Quote
I am enjoying the comment thread here so far immensely.
Ok so good points were brought up about the drone boosts, and the ewar boost stepping on information warfare links' toes. So let's set aside ewar boosts off the table for a bit, and try some different ideas.
What about missiles? I can see the drone one being useful for sub-cap drones to a certain degree without making sentries any stronger, so how about setting it up so it gives out bonuses to missile velocity and explosion velocity? |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
471
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Posted - 2015.01.25 03:46:19 -
[26] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Hellfire, you've mentioned 3 types of missile sizes which is strange.
Next thing is dual armor bonuses (resists & hitpoints), which simply make it overetanked.
The missile velocity for heavies is so it can use rapid heavy launchers. The dual tanking bonus is from it being the Damnation's larger sibling, and the fact that I absolutely adore khanid ships. |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
245
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Posted - 2015.01.25 04:30:06 -
[27] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Tiddle Jr wrote:Hellfire, you've mentioned 3 types of missile sizes which is strange.
Next thing is dual armor bonuses (resists & hitpoints), which simply make it overetanked.
The missile velocity for heavies is so it can use rapid heavy launchers. The dual tanking bonus is from it being the Damnation's larger sibling, and the fact that I absolutely adore khanid ships.
I would love to see a khanid missile hull based on the badon.
I like what you did with the command bonuses, they're a little more balanced than they were before. However I think on a fundamental level though I'm still a little unsure about another boosting ship adding fleet bonuses. It's a role that's already filled well, even if the different kinds of bonuses that you've proposed, on the larger ship end of the spectrum. I'm not opposed to fleet boosts as a concept, but I think expanding the mechanic too much begins to add meaningless layers to optimization that won't add new game-play.
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
31
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Posted - 2015.01.25 04:59:44 -
[28] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Tiddle Jr wrote:Hellfire, you've mentioned 3 types of missile sizes which is strange.
Next thing is dual armor bonuses (resists & hitpoints), which simply make it overetanked.
The missile velocity for heavies is so it can use rapid heavy launchers. The dual tanking bonus is from it being the Damnation's larger sibling, and the fact that I absolutely adore khanid ships.
U should take one armor bonus off, which is armor hitpoints. Khanid has only provides resists one. Otherwise with couple of bank's and pair of 1600mm dcu reactive armor hardener it's gonna be a hardest ship ever to crack. |
Catherine Laartii
Perkone Caldari State
471
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Posted - 2015.01.25 05:09:13 -
[29] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Tiddle Jr wrote:Hellfire, you've mentioned 3 types of missile sizes which is strange.
Next thing is dual armor bonuses (resists & hitpoints), which simply make it overetanked.
The missile velocity for heavies is so it can use rapid heavy launchers. The dual tanking bonus is from it being the Damnation's larger sibling, and the fact that I absolutely adore khanid ships. U should take one armor bonus off, which is armor hitpoints. Khanid has only provides resists one. Otherwise with couple of bank's and pair of 1600mm dcu reactive armor hardener it's gonna be a hardest ship ever to crack. The damnation already has the same tanking bonuses, but unlike it it has lower resists, and gigantic sig radius that makes it vulnerable to capital weapons. |
Catherine Laartii
Perkone Caldari State
471
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Posted - 2015.01.25 05:13:01 -
[30] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Tiddle Jr wrote:Hellfire, you've mentioned 3 types of missile sizes which is strange.
Next thing is dual armor bonuses (resists & hitpoints), which simply make it overetanked.
The missile velocity for heavies is so it can use rapid heavy launchers. The dual tanking bonus is from it being the Damnation's larger sibling, and the fact that I absolutely adore khanid ships. I would love to see a khanid missile hull based on the badon. I like what you did with the command bonuses, they're a little more balanced than they were before. However I think on a fundamental level though I'm still a little unsure about another boosting ship adding fleet bonuses. It's a role that's already filled well, even if the different kinds of bonuses that you've proposed, on the larger ship end of the spectrum. I'm not opposed to fleet boosts as a concept, but I think expanding the mechanic too much begins to add meaningless layers to optimization that won't add new game-play. Well the idea is that you offer one as an alternate to the other; these battleships are a bit more combat capable and provide decent passive boosts that don't rely on fitted links with all the related link skills to train. So while command ships are harder to get into, they boost fleets more effectively and are generally more affordable. These give a different set of bonuses, are significantly more resilient, and are easier to spec into, despite being quite a bit more expensive. The general idea is that they complement each other, without being too overpowered or redundant.
The core thought with them is that they're sort of a halfway between command ships and titans in terms of a fleet command boat. |
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