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FoxFire Ayderan
193
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Posted - 2015.01.26 23:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi.
Currently the Scan Resolution tool-tip says "Larger values increase target locking speed"
I find that a bit confusing. Particularly for new players.
It might be clearer to say "Smaller values increase the time to lock onto a target." or if you want to keep it in terms of improvement "Larger values allow you to lock onto a target faster." (or 'in less time').
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
102
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Posted - 2015.01.27 03:42:22 -
[2] - Quote
FoxFire Ayderan wrote: Hi.
Currently the Scan Resolution tool-tip says "Larger values increase target locking speed"
I find that a bit confusing. Particularly for new players.
It might be clearer to say "Smaller values increase the time to lock onto a target." or if you want to keep it in terms of improvement "Larger values allow you to lock onto a target faster." (or 'in less time').
All semantics and how you look at the English language. For everyone I know that would agree with you there is at least one that would disagree with you. I say leave them alone since changing this one would require changing them all to remain consistent. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
595
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Posted - 2015.01.27 03:49:41 -
[3] - Quote
how is this confusing? larger numbers increase the speed you lock a target
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FoxFire Ayderan
193
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Posted - 2015.01.27 04:18:54 -
[4] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: I say leave them alone since changing this one would require changing them all to remain consistent.
I don't see how they would need to change any other tool tips.
I haven't checked but assuming they like to phrase things in terms of how to improve something, I provided the 2nd possibility, with two phrasings that I believe would be more clear to users (particularly new players).
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
820
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Posted - 2015.01.27 04:20:38 -
[5] - Quote
rate
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
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Lugh Crow-Slave
595
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Posted - 2015.01.27 04:21:38 -
[6] - Quote
no i mean it what other meaning could this wording have
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1882
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Posted - 2015.01.27 04:49:50 -
[7] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:no i mean it what other meaning could this wording have The other meaning is that larger numbers increase the time it takes to lock onto a target. Since that's 'increasing'
Add onto that that sig res actually works backwards in EVE, since in reality a smaller sig res actually means you get a more detailed scan so can acquire targets of a given size accurately faster.
And you have a very confusing situation. |
FoxFire Ayderan
193
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Posted - 2015.01.27 04:52:27 -
[8] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:no i mean it what other meaning could this wording have
I'm sure that seems pretty straight forward to a veteran. But for newer players it's not quite so straight forward.
There's room for confusion in the part of the sentence that says "increase target locking". Increase target locking sounds bad. And adding 'speed' to the end for a player that hasn't quite grasped these concepts yet doesn't help too much.
Even I found myself having to parse the sentence and think a bit too hard about what that was saying. Whereas the alternatives I proposed are easier to understand and provide less room for confusion.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
597
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Posted - 2015.01.27 05:23:15 -
[9] - Quote
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:no i mean it what other meaning could this wording have I'm sure that seems pretty straight forward to a veteran. But for newer players it's not quite so straight forward. There's room for confusion in the part of the sentence that says " increase target locking". Increase target locking sounds bad. And adding 'speed' to the end for a player that hasn't quite grasped these concepts yet doesn't help too much. Even I found myself having to parse the sentence and think a bit too hard about what that was saying. Whereas the alternatives I proposed are easier to understand and provide less room for confusion.
how can increase in speed be taken as takes longer? this is not me nit picking for once it is general confusion
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Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
601
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Posted - 2015.01.27 08:26:51 -
[10] - Quote
"Larger values let you lock a target in less time" would be the very best way to describe this attribute. |
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
161
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Posted - 2015.01.27 08:56:48 -
[11] - Quote
really?
usually "increase" + "speed" in the same sentence means to go faster?
If thats too hard to figure out.....then well idk. |
FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
178
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Posted - 2015.01.27 09:00:57 -
[12] - Quote
I have always wondered why (what i assume to mean) as i would assume the fidelity of the sensors go UP, ie the distance between point A from point B where it can distinguish between them the number ALSO goes up.
I'd expect a 100mm scan res to be better (ie the distance between A and B is 100mm) then 1666.6mm (which i read as "i need more then a meter of clearance between A and B in order to even have a clue whats what"). Thats what confused me as a newbro... |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3334
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Posted - 2015.01.27 13:45:52 -
[13] - Quote
The only modification to the scan resolution tooltip that we need is a breakdown of how long it will take to lock a pod / frigate / cruiser / battlecruiser / battleship / capital / supercapital at your current scanres.
Though, for most ships I would wager that capital/supercapital ships are locked in a time very much akin to "almost instantly".
-1 to the modification OP suggests though, and +1 to the "how can the current tooltip mean anything else?" crowd. |
FoxFire Ayderan
193
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Posted - 2015.01.27 17:34:39 -
[14] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: how can increase in speed be taken as takes longer? this is not me nit picking for once it is general confusion
It's bceuase of the way the hmuan mnid wrkos. For isnatcne we raed wrdos as snigle uints. So as lnog as the frist and lsat ltteres of a wrod are in the rghit palce, all ohter ltteres can be mxied up and you can sitll raed tihs snetnace wtih liltte porbelm.
We also often see blocks of words before our minds parse an entire sentence. We may even put less emphasis on or entirely ignore other words in the sentence. (see Teaser #6 http://www.dailycognition.com/index.php/2008/08/13/7-illusions-illustrating-how-powerful-stupid-your-mind-can-be.html ) And when there is a discrepancy between a word block and the entire meaning of the sentence it can create confusion or at least require additional CPU cycles in one's mind to have to figure out what it's saying. When you look at that tool tip your mind is going to see "increase target locking". Which of course is not something one would want to do.
I'm not a complete noob, but I'm also no expert at this game, and the reason I made this post is because I myself had to stop and think about what that was saying. It took me a while to resolve the discrepancy. I was looking at some modules, and the modifier attributes, and then looking at my fitting screen to see how my stats are effected. And I wasn't sure if adding to the scan resolution was better or worse. I therefore checked the tool tip and my mind immediately latched onto "increase target locking", which I know enough to realize is not what I want. 'locking speed' didn't register because when locking onto something I'm thinking about the time it takes. 'Speed' has a greater association in most people's minds with movement and therefore for me it got de-emphasized and ignored over what I was seeing, which was an increase in target locking.
You may not have experienced this confusion because I pointed out the correct interpretation in my OP. Just like if anyone had pointed out those mind teasers I linked (like the F counting) to you in advance you might wonder why anyone else could have not seen them.
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3335
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Posted - 2015.01.27 17:39:18 -
[15] - Quote
For the love of Bob, Ayderan, new players are not five-year-olds or special-education students. They don't need their hand held while you speak slowly to them, they don't need you to chew their food for them and they don't need you to lay out their clothes at night or make them wear a helmet before they go outside.
Stop insulting their intelligence.
Anyone who has successfully completed the fifth grade can read the sentence in the tooltip and understand from it that scanres increases the speed at which targets are locked. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8659
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Posted - 2015.01.27 17:52:41 -
[16] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:For the love of Bob, Ayderan, new players are not five-year-olds or special-education students. They don't need their hand held while you speak slowly to them, they don't need you to chew their food for them and they don't need you to lay out their clothes at night or make them wear a helmet before they go outside.
Stop insulting their intelligence.
Anyone who has successfully completed the fifth grade can read the sentence in the tooltip and understand from it that scanres increases the speed at which targets are locked. not only am i dyslexic but im generally also fairly ****face drunk while playing eve and i have never had an issue with the wording of this tooltip.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7196
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Posted - 2015.01.27 18:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:I made this post is because I myself had to stop and think about what that was saying. It took me a while to resolve the discrepancy. I was looking at some modules, and the modifier attributes, and then looking at my fitting screen to see how my stats are effected. Have you ever considered that maybe this was the intent of "poor wording" of the tool tip? So you would stop and say, "wait, what?"
As my little cousins grow, I'll often rephrase the same exact sentence in different (often convoluted) ways to get them to think.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
654
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Posted - 2015.01.27 18:14:21 -
[18] - Quote
Maybe both versions, you know... Because stupid people.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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FoxFire Ayderan
193
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Posted - 2015.01.27 18:32:31 -
[19] - Quote
As usual there is a cadre of entirely unhelpful unproductive trolling respondents.
Nevertheless this idea is for CCP's eyes. If there is a way to privately send ideas to CCP devs I'd love to have that information. Given the sort of environment that is permitted to exist in the F&I forums here, this would be preferable.
Still I appreciate the opportunity to explain the reasoning behind why the wording of the tool tip is potentially confusing. And even why someone who's already aware of the mechanic my not find it confusing or even comprehend why it would be confusing to someone else who isn't overly familiar with these things.
The alternatives I proposed are clearer and more straight forward. I'm partial to " Larger values allow you to lock onto a target faster."
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3340
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Posted - 2015.01.27 18:56:40 -
[20] - Quote
FoxFire Ayderan wrote: As usual there is a cadre of entirely unhelpful unproductive trolling respondents.
Not a single reply in this thread is of a trolling nature.
Quote:Nevertheless this idea is for CCP's eyes. If there is a way to privately send ideas to CCP devs I'd love to have that information. Given the sort of environment that is permitted to exist in the F&I forums here, this would be preferable. The F&I forums work like this: Someone posts an idea of some kind, the players discuss it, the ISDs take note of particularly interesting and/or particularly well-received ideas and forward the threads to the appropriate devs who can then read them at their leisure and comment or not. That means in order to get an idea to CCP, it has to get through two layers of not-CCP. If none of your ideas so far have met with the kind of responses you've expected or hoped for, perhaps there's a reason for that other than "F&I is full of trolls boo hoo".
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Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
83
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Posted - 2015.01.27 19:18:02 -
[21] - Quote
So really you're saying, "I only want CCP to see my genius, because players keep pointing to incredibly gaping holes in my logic."
Ambiguity means people ask questions, which CAN be an icebreaker, or lead to people trying learn the answer for themselves. I had to ask many many questions, and that is what landed me in a good highsec corp. It gave me a good foundation for moving to null, where I needed those friends. When i expanded my horizons to other jobs and facets of eve, I knew to ask, and when new players, or players new to that facet ask, I help.
There should be at least one MMORPG that promotes reading, learning and asking. I play it, so do you. Stop trying to dumb it down for the hard of thinking.
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FoxFire Ayderan
193
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Posted - 2015.01.27 19:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Not a single reply in this thread is of a trolling nature.
If you are having difficulty identifying what I'm referring to, then I suspect you may need some instruction on what is considered trolling.
Quote: The F&I forums work like this: Someone posts an idea of some kind, the players discuss it, the ISDs take note of particularly interesting and/or particularly well-received ideas and forward the threads to the appropriate devs who can then read them at their leisure and comment or not. That means in order to get an idea to CCP, it has to get through two layers of not-CCP. If none of your ideas so far have met with the kind of responses you've expected or hoped for, perhaps there's a reason for that other than "F&I is full of trolls boo hoo".
I doubt that the Devs rely solely on the volunteer ISD's, who may have their own agendas, to forward only the idea topics they think are worthy of consideration. I'm sure the devs peruse these forums themselves looking for new ideas and what players are thinking of. The fact that they've put in and continue to put in improvements that may have had a passing suggestion in the forums and/or are things that those like yourself would have ridiculed and/or objected to as 'wasting time on', would indicate that they are not so impressed with the thoughts of nonconstructive detractors of others' ideas.
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FoxFire Ayderan
193
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Posted - 2015.01.27 19:38:09 -
[23] - Quote
Zimmer Jones wrote:So really you're saying, "I only want CCP to see my genius, because players keep pointing to incredibly gaping holes in my logic."
Ambiguity means people ask questions, which CAN be an icebreaker, or lead to people trying learn the answer for themselves. I had to ask many many questions, and that is what landed me in a good highsec corp. It gave me a good foundation for moving to null, where I needed those friends. When i expanded my horizons to other jobs and facets of eve, I knew to ask, and when new players, or players new to that facet ask, I help.
There should be at least one MMORPG that promotes reading, learning and asking. I play it, so do you. Stop trying to dumb it down for the hard of thinking.
Seriously?
We're talking about a tool-tip here. CCP put these in for a reason. To clear up confusion and make things as easily understandable as possible. The tool tips aren't designed to 'challenge one's mind'. They are meant to be short, simple, and easily comprehended.
There are no 'holes in my logic', and nobody has pointed out any. I was speaking from personal experience, so my 'logic' that the tool-tip is not as clear, straight forward, and understandable as it could be, is evidenced.
Now, perhaps you would like to fashion some sort of insult from my previous sentence there.
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Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
83
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Posted - 2015.01.27 20:09:37 -
[24] - Quote
FoxFire Ayderan wrote: We're talking about a tool-tip here. CCP put these in for a reason. To clear up confusion and make things as easily understandable as possible. The tool tips aren't designed to 'challenge one's mind'. They are meant to be short, simple, and easily comprehended.
There are no 'holes in my logic', and nobody has pointed out any. I was speaking from personal experience, so my 'logic' that the tool-tip is not as clear, straight forward, and understandable as it could be, is evidenced.
Now, perhaps you would like to fashion some sort of insult from my previous sentence there.
Hardly an insult to point out current and past behaviors. You constantly try to dumb down the game, or have it played for you. Every time your idea is repeatedly proven by argument to be of little or no use, the response is invariably " CCP wll judge my ideas, and only them. I wish i had a private line so people can't point out flaws."
Lets reiterate a few of your awesome ideas that should only have been seen by CCP:
Hiring Concord to defend you A new sorting feature because you don't like current inventory filters Asteroid fields that provide defense by blocking damage Eliminating NPC corps from employment history so you don't have to inconveniently sort through them Not having to manually adjust you ships navigation to avoid large and obvious obstructions When people do you the favor of the critical thinking that should have been done before you posted, Your response is "only ccp can be judge, and most everyone else are trolls." You troll your own posts, and are emarassingly bad at it. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
163
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Posted - 2015.01.27 20:56:05 -
[25] - Quote
should also change rof bonus's to just also include how much dmg you gain next to them cause logic is hard. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3343
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Posted - 2015.01.27 21:10:10 -
[26] - Quote
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:I doubt that the Devs rely solely on the volunteer ISD's, who may have their own agendas, ... Wow. Did you just insinuate that the ISD may be corrupt or not doing their jobs in good faith?
Wow.
Quote:The fact that they've ... would indicate that they are not so impressed with the thoughts of nonconstructive detractors of others' ideas. Actually, the things they have or have not added to the game indicate nothing of the kind. |
FoxFire Ayderan
193
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Posted - 2015.01.27 21:42:57 -
[27] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:FoxFire Ayderan wrote:I doubt that the Devs rely solely on the volunteer ISD's, who may have their own agendas, ... Wow. Did you just insinuate that the ISD may be corrupt or not doing their jobs in good faith? Wow.
Do you know something? Why would your mind immediately go to such words?
In any case the continued behaviors of I'd have to say some of the most egregious rules violators (of the more egregious rules to violate) in these forums does leave one wondering.
So I don't know. Maybe you can answer your own 'speculations' far better than I could.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
608
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Posted - 2015.01.27 22:00:09 -
[28] - Quote
FoxFire Ayderan wrote: As usual there is a cadre of entirely unhelpful unproductive trolling respondents.
why is it when people don't agree with you, you just think they are trolling?
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FoxFire Ayderan
193
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Posted - 2015.01.27 22:52:38 -
[29] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
why is it when people don't agree with you, you just think they are trolling?
I think I'm beginning to see where certain individuals are having trouble.
I am not calling simple disagreement as trolling.
If one cannot identify what is trolling, what is disrespectful, what are personal attacks, or what are non constructive posts, then I can see where they might be having difficulty.
See if you can identify where this thread went off the rails and who caused it to do so. I'll give you a hint.... it wasn't anything you had posted (that is until you just now decided to lock arms with these apparent brothers-in-arms of yours).
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Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
132
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Posted - 2015.01.27 22:59:01 -
[30] - Quote
Just putting this out there: People can still "like" your idea, even if they don't want to argue for you. Count the supporters in your threads. Perhaps instead of giving hints, you should take them.
Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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