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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4479
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Posted - 2015.01.28 09:32:56 -
[301] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:RIP higsec hauling.
Cost of suicide gank on higsec freighter just dropped to at most 1/10 of current value. No more need of sharing dropped stuff with any one - makes 500mil freighters worth killing. Tanked Orca any one? You build freighters? Start killing empty ones for the cost of few catalist - you will earn much more on each freighter you sell.
The only safer hauling methods will be JF and tons of cyno alts in lowsec around the route or hire escort ships that will guard your freighter! So more work for new players.
I'm happy about this change. People will finally move to safety of nullsec where you can shoot any one , and you don't need to count on broken CONCORD.
+1 CCP, good policy change.
Now pls focus on nullsec and sov changes.
This change will make life more profitable for highsec haulers that practice sensible #opsec. They can charge more once all the idiots lose their freighters.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24821
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Posted - 2015.01.28 09:34:13 -
[302] - Quote
Inslander Wessette wrote:So just a query about this .
I am not sure if i'm right . If someone can continue to gank after going criminal . Would this mean that the tactic can be done in any security and a work around to gank someone giving bs to concord .
Or would this work only in 0.5 and 0.6 only ? It's no different than any other suicide ganking strategy: it works everywhere, but the higher you go, the tighter your margins become and the less time you have actually delivering damage on target. The downtime between each pass is fairly constant, so the higher the sec rating, the lower your ratio of attack vs restock time goes, and the longer the gank will take GÇö longer obviously meaning more opportunity for things to go wrong (not to mention that 0.7 systems and up tend to have more natural avenues of escape or of simply circumnavigating the gank).
It GÇ£only worksGÇ¥ in 0.5 and 0.6, the same as most ganks really, because above that it just becomes too prolonged, cumbersome, and risky a procedure to be of any value.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11526
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Posted - 2015.01.28 09:35:59 -
[303] - Quote
Astroid Mistress wrote: There is no way to escape this "hyperdunk" tactic once a Machariel has bumped you off alignment if you are in a Freighter.
Wrong.
Quote: The only way is to log off the game.
Also wrong.
Everything else in your post is just you ranting based off of these two falsehoods, so you might as well delete it.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Arla Sarain
259
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Posted - 2015.01.28 09:42:57 -
[304] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Since the introduction of the Bowhead freighter, weGÇÖve become aware of a tactic that has been introduced which has become known as GÇ£HyperdunkingGÇ¥. This involves leaving a grid where a criminal action occurs to draw away CONCORD and reshipping to continue shooting at a target. ThereGÇÖs been much discussion among members of the community regarding this tactic, and whether or not it is considered legitimate gameplay.
After meeting with members of the game design and customer support teams and discussing this in depth, we have come to the consensus that due to the fact no rules are being broken and any ship that is involved in a criminal act is being destroyed by CONCORD as intended, that this tactic is simply an unintended but legitimate use of new game mechanics, and is not in breach of the rules. Tactics similar to this have been used with previous hulls before the Bowhead was introduced, and have been considered perfectly legitimate in the past.
With this in mind, at this time we do not consider this tactic to be in breach of the game rules, and as such our customer support team will not be offering reimbursements for hulls lost in this manner.
Players are also reminded that if someone is criminally flagged, they are fair game to be attacked in self-defense. Feel free to use this to your advantage.
So when can we expect CONCORD podding the criminals? When can we expect haulers to hire protection? Like play the game and not have CCP play it for them. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
526
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Posted - 2015.01.28 09:43:06 -
[305] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Unless you're bumped to death by a BS (say, a Machariel), which is a all reward-no risk scenario for the bumper. What CCP calls "f**k the PvErs balance".
I am so bloody tired of this garbage. So. Bloody. Tired. Over and over again CCP insists that PvErs have no place and deserve no chance and no choice in their game.
Want to avoid PvP abuse of a stupid mechanic? PvP yourself. Play our way or go away. No choices. No options. Just fukking PvP, you fukking PvE c*nt.
Forum poster, calm down.
Bumping has a cost - it requires as much of the bumpers time as the target - and puts the undertanked bumping ship at risk of a gank. More importantly, it is easy to avoid by either a scout/webbing escort, or by flying one of the many hauling ships that are effectively immune to bumping.
Freighters have a weakness - harassment by bumpers. Use them appropriately when you need to, and use another ship when you don't.
CCP has never insisted that PvE players have no place in the game. However, New Eden is a competitive, single-shard universe where we all can influence each other, including PvE players. The emergent gameplay that flows from this is a major part of what makes this game interesting. If you really, really don't like it, you can play on the test server where no one is allowed to disturb your PvE activities. Or maybe, you should seriously think about if you are playing the wrong game altogether.
Otherwise, spend just a little effort, and you will easily avoid 99.9% of the already small amount of risk to you and your ships in highsec. CCP has given you a large collection of tools, and plenty of protection, so much that it is hard to imagine anyone saying with a straight face they have "no choices" or "no options" in how to play this game.
Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
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Anthar Thebess
838
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Posted - 2015.01.28 09:48:01 -
[306] - Quote
Tippia wrote:No. Before, it took X catalysts, a bumper, (preferably) a cleaner, and a hauler to kill and loot a freighter. With this tactic, it takes X+ catalysts, a delivery vehicle, a bumper, (preferably) a cleaner, and a hauler to kill and loot a freighter. .
We can argue as much as you can, and we both are right. For me cost is also time . Before : Time of 11 people to prepare every thing and wait for the target. All people had to be rdy - you where waiting for target. No one could go afk.
Now it is only 1 person doing it. You need to go afk - no problem, dock up all ships.
Time is more expensive than isk.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24821
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Posted - 2015.01.28 09:55:49 -
[307] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:We can argue as much as you can, and we both are right. Not really, no, since you claimed that the costs will magically go down just because of a GM statement. That is pretty much the opposite of being right.
In reality, costs remain the same or go up ever so slightly because the cost lies in the ships being lost, and that number will only go up.
Quote:For me cost is also time . That stays the same too, you know, for pretty much the exact same reason.
Before, you had to deliver, say, 200k damage using 400-DPS ships, meaning you needed 500 damage-seconds for the target to go down. Since you didn't have 500 seconds in one go, you had to cut it up among 20 ships doing it in parallel.
Now, you have to deliver, say, 2000k damage using 400-DPS ships, meaning you need 500 damage-seconds for the target to go down. Since you don't have 500 seconds in one go, you have to cut it up among 20 ships doing it in series.
500 seconds of work is 500 seconds of work. Again, if anything, the total time spent has gone up because you are far more restricted in the number of viable targets so you have to spend more waste time finding one that will work for you.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Canenald
Rubella Solaris Test Alliance Please Ignore
46
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Posted - 2015.01.28 10:03:19 -
[308] - Quote
A neat way to solve this would be to make an Orca or any other ship providing services to a capsuleer with a criminal flag gain a suspect flag. It is aiding a criminal after all, isn't it? That would even the odds a bit. Freighters would still have to use alts or buddies for scouting, webs or escort, and gankers would have to use a buddy or be more attentive and stay aligned on their Orca alt so that they don't get pointed and blown up. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24827
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Posted - 2015.01.28 10:05:25 -
[309] - Quote
Canenald wrote:A neat way to solve this would be to make an Orca or any other ship providing services to a capsuleer with a criminal flag gain a suspect flag. Solve what? What's the problem?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Anthar Thebess
838
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Posted - 2015.01.28 10:08:18 -
[310] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:We can argue as much as you can, and we both are right. Not really, no, since you claimed that the costs will magically go down just because of a GM statement. That is pretty much the opposite of being right. In reality, costs remain the same or go up ever so slightly because the cost lies in the ships being lost, and that number will only go up. Quote:For me cost is also time . That stays the same too, you know, for pretty much the exact same reason. Before, you had to deliver, say, 200k damage using 400-DPS ships, meaning you needed 500 damage-seconds for the target to go down. Since you didn't have 500 seconds in one go, you had to cut it up among 20 ships doing it in parallel. You then docked up and had a sandwich while the scooper picked the loot apart and the timers counted down. Now, you have to deliver, say, 2000k damage using 400-DPS ships, meaning you need 500 damage-seconds for the target to go down. Since you don't have 500 seconds in one go, you have to cut it up among 20 ships doing it in series. You then dock up and have a sandwich while the scooper picks the loot apart and the timer counts down. 500 seconds of work is 500 seconds of work. Again, if anything, the total time spent has gone up because you are far more restricted in the number of viable targets so you have to spend more waste time finding one that will work for you.
No you are wrong again. Before. You needed 11 people ready at all time, sitting and waiting for a expensive ship to come. This could take 10minutes or 4 hours.
Now. You are doing this alone. You don't need to count on any one.
Waiting is also what you need to consider.
I prefer tornado turkey shooting. I do it without any scaning alt , just one that pick up the stuff.
Now i need to buy myself bownhead
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24831
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Posted - 2015.01.28 10:14:57 -
[311] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:No you are wrong again. Before. You needed 11 people GǪwho could do something else while waiting, thereby not wasting any time. The only one that needs to be properly active during the wind-up is the scout GÇö same as now. The work time remains the same. The post-gank time is more time that can be spent on doing other things and thus not wasted. Being inefficient with your use of time is your choice, not a fixed cost for a gank.
Quote:Now. You are doing this alone. GǪand the before, during, and after-work requirements remains the same (or, wellGǪ the actual gank takes a lot longer due to the restocking time so there's a slight increase there).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
17720
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Posted - 2015.01.28 10:18:33 -
[312] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Solve what? What's the problem? It's really nice seeing you around again.
Nothing to solve here, moving right along ...
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
Dusette SquadGäó endorses Corbexx for CSM X !
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Quantum Distributions
1390
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Posted - 2015.01.28 10:24:02 -
[313] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:You are wrong. No. Before, it took X catalysts, a bumper, (preferably) a cleaner, and a hauler to kill and loot a freighter. With this tactic, it takes X+ catalysts, a delivery vehicle, a bumper, (preferably) a cleaner, and a hauler to kill and loot a freighter. The added delivery vehicle is perhaps not that much at risk, but you never know when some evil ganker might pass by and say GÇ£hey, I'd like to kill me one of thoseGÇ¥. So that's already more risk right there, if minimal. Then there's the fact that you don't deliver damage in parallel but in series, meaning more HP to chew through, more ships required to do so, and the potential for some nasty evil white knight to come along and kick that HP back up, again raising the cost. Quote:You see the difference? I know the difference between GÇ£costGÇ¥ and GÇ£cutGÇ¥. You don't. So shush. Quote:You don't play eve on 1 account. Really? That's news to me. So how many accounts do I play EVE on, because it looks like I need to start looking for the other ones. You missed neutral agressor on the list of people required, unless you want the target logging off to be the end of the gank attempt.
New player resources:
Uni Wiki - General Info
Eve Altruist - PvP
Belligerent Undesirables - High Sec Pvp
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24834
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Posted - 2015.01.28 10:57:44 -
[314] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:You missed neutral agressor on the list of people required, unless you want the target logging off to be the end of the gank attempt. Fair point. That's something that's needed under the old model and not the new one, but it is also essentially free since that aggression can be done with a civilian module in a n00bship.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
284
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Posted - 2015.01.28 10:59:00 -
[315] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Tippia wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:So when can we expect CONCORD podding the criminals? Never. Podding is a 100% player activity and there's no reason for NPCs to ever do it. Just keep believing that...
He did not read the minutes it seems. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24834
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Posted - 2015.01.28 11:07:35 -
[316] - Quote
TheSmokingHertog wrote:He did not read the minutes it seems. You mean the bit where CCP states that they have no plans of announcing such a change, and offers no reason for it to happen?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
680
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Posted - 2015.01.28 12:24:01 -
[317] - Quote
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Commentus Nolen wrote:If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?
Do I get a kill mail for destroying them? As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them . You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them.
Hilariously, you could also board one, shoot another to get yourself concorded, and then keep jumping in the other ships while under the GCC to get Concord to clean the lot up :P
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
31
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Posted - 2015.01.28 12:27:48 -
[318] - Quote
Tippia wrote:TheSmokingHertog wrote:He did not read the minutes it seems. You mean the bit where CCP states that they have no plans of announcing such a change, and offers no reason for it to happen?
You do know NPCs are podding now and the new Sleeper AI will include podding as well right? And yes, it was in the CSM minutes and all over Reddit. |
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
470
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Posted - 2015.01.28 12:27:50 -
[319] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Commentus Nolen wrote:If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?
Do I get a kill mail for destroying them? As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them . You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them. Hilariously, you could also board one, shoot another to get yourself concorded, and then keep jumping in the other ships while under the GCC to get Concord to clean the lot up :P Nice, that hadn't even occurred to me.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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Mag's
the united
18902
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Posted - 2015.01.28 12:31:21 -
[320] - Quote
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them . You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them. Hilariously, you could also board one, shoot another to get yourself concorded, and then keep jumping in the other ships while under the GCC to get Concord to clean the lot up :P Nice, that hadn't even occurred to me. That is funny stuff and worth a try.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
31
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Posted - 2015.01.28 12:31:26 -
[321] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Commentus Nolen wrote:If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?
Do I get a kill mail for destroying them? As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them . You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them. Hilariously, you could also board one, shoot another to get yourself concorded, and then keep jumping in the other ships while under the GCC to get Concord to clean the lot up :P
Be easier to just fit a SeBo on your Bowhead and lock the cat so ganker can't board it. I think you get 5x locks so you could take a lot of damage off the field unless you have a real slick Orca dropper. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
31
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Posted - 2015.01.28 12:35:45 -
[322] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Since the introduction of the Bowhead freighter, weGÇÖve become aware of a tactic that has been introduced which has become known as GÇ£HyperdunkingGÇ¥. This involves leaving a grid where a criminal action occurs to draw away CONCORD and reshipping to continue shooting at a target. ThereGÇÖs been much discussion among members of the community regarding this tactic, and whether or not it is considered legitimate gameplay.
After meeting with members of the game design and customer support teams and discussing this in depth, we have come to the consensus that due to the fact no rules are being broken and any ship that is involved in a criminal act is being destroyed by CONCORD as intended, that this tactic is simply an unintended but legitimate use of new game mechanics, and is not in breach of the rules. Tactics similar to this have been used with previous hulls before the Bowhead was introduced, and have been considered perfectly legitimate in the past.
With this in mind, at this time we do not consider this tactic to be in breach of the game rules, and as such our customer support team will not be offering reimbursements for hulls lost in this manner.
Players are also reminded that if someone is criminally flagged, they are fair game to be attacked in self-defense. Feel free to use this to your advantage.
So when can we expect CONCORD podding the criminals? When can we expect haulers to hire protection? Like play the game and not have CCP play it for them.
It can be a Goon provided service right? No way to scam here. Let me just accept that duel request for fast align times
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24843
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Posted - 2015.01.28 12:41:46 -
[323] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:You do know NPCs are podding now and the new Sleeper AI will include podding as well right? And yes, it was in the CSM minutes and all over Reddit. Again: you mean the bit where CCP states that they have no plans of announcing such a change, and offers no reason for it to happen?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Hicksimus
Volatile Instability Resonance.
531
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Posted - 2015.01.28 13:01:02 -
[324] - Quote
Same old lazy CCP. Fixing this would require work that we cannot be bothered to do right now so it's not an exploit.
Not that hyperdunking matters to me(maybe I'm doing it) but CCP takes the lazy route every time something comes up that would require actual work to be done.
Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you?
Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24847
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Posted - 2015.01.28 13:06:33 -
[325] - Quote
Hicksimus wrote:Same old lazy CCP. Fixing this would require work that we cannot be bothered to do right now so it's not an exploit.
Not that hyperdunking matters to me(maybe I'm doing it) but CCP takes the lazy route every time something comes up that would require actual work to be done. What's there to fix? And seeing as how they have fixed some actual exploits and broken code in this area in the past, what makes you think that they're just trying to avoid work?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11532
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Posted - 2015.01.28 13:10:27 -
[326] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Hicksimus wrote:Same old lazy CCP. Fixing this would require work that we cannot be bothered to do right now so it's not an exploit.
Not that hyperdunking matters to me(maybe I'm doing it) but CCP takes the lazy route every time something comes up that would require actual work to be done. What's there to fix? And seeing as how they have fixed some actual exploits and broken code in this area in the past, what makes you think that they're just trying to avoid work?
Well, that's obvious.
Because he doesn't want it to be true.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
682
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Posted - 2015.01.28 13:14:42 -
[327] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Arla Sarain wrote: When can we expect haulers to hire protection? Like play the game and not have CCP play it for them.
It can be a Goon provided service right? No way to scam here. Let me just accept that duel request for fast align times
Are you saying this face doesn't look honest and trustworthy to you?
I wouldn't worry, as a certified F1 monkey, I assure you I could probably very easily lose a 1v1 against an unarmed freighter
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Anthar Thebess
839
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Posted - 2015.01.28 13:16:51 -
[328] - Quote
Tippia wrote: What's there to fix? And seeing as how they have fixed some actual exploits and broken code in this area in the past, what makes you think that they're just trying to avoid work?
Hehe now i know why you have so many likes. For a week i was telling people that i don't see any thing wrong in this suicide ganking , as all rules are preserved. Bowhead didn't introduce this possibility either , as you can do the same using orca.
There is no simple "fix" for this issue , if it will be considered by CCP as issue.
# More EHP on freighters - nothing will change, just more stupid people will put all that they own in 1 ship. # Suspect after you are bumping someone? I will be fist that kill all those people bumping my BS on jita undock or any gate! Damn pirates
Want your cargo secure? 1. Never put to much into 1 ship ! 2. If this is slow freighter or orca , ESCORT IT. Something that will provide webs , and kill gankers. 3. Never fly AFK.
CCP made bad decision when they introduced freighters. Yes they help a lot moving tons of goods, but they move it slow, so people will go afk.
I think you can install this anti bumping rigs to your freighter - but i guess then you never can go afk.
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Aleksi Bocharov
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2015.01.28 13:29:54 -
[329] - Quote
Rena Senn wrote:Not being able to fly through any .5 or .6 system in an entire class of ships because any bored multiboxer can blow up your ship with impunity while expending a fraction of the isk sounds like the deletion of a playstyle to me.
Hello. I'm currently flying my Jump Freighter through .5 and .6 systems as I type this. I just wanted to test your claim that I wouldn't be able to. Nothing is preventing me. The gates aren't locked or anything. What's preventing you?
Rena Senn wrote:Awoxers can still con their way into directorship and turn off the corp safety while convincing the rest of the corp that it's business as usual.
You can still use an alt or a friend to web your freighter into warp, or take a longer route through higher security ratings, etcetc, business as usual everything is fine.
(P.S. Added CONCORD response to corp-on-corp aggression is a deletion of a playstyle the same way that removal of CONCORD completely from HiSec would be the deletion of HiSec mining/mission/incursion playstyles... but carebears are incapable of empathy so this will never dawn on them).
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super hornet
Marwolaeth Hyfryd
2
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Posted - 2015.01.28 13:41:46 -
[330] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Tippia wrote: Never. Podding is a 100% player activity and there's no reason for NPCs to ever do it.
Just keep believing that... I'll keep believing it until there's a reason for NPCs to do it. Until then, it's pointless faff, and even after that, it's still nothing CONCORD has any business doing.
In the real word the Police Wouldn't, Pop a cap in ya Ass will your naked Would they ? |
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