Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 75 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15075
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:35:19 -
[1681] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:http://evelostfound.blogspot.com/2015/01/is-pve-safer-in-high-sec-or-null-sec.html
This was a very nice and recent analysis using not only ship death/npc ratios but also ship death value.
Their conclusion? Null PVE is completely broken because of how safe it is. Even the worst people at defending their ratters (CFC) were more than 3x safer in terms of real isk value than comparable highsec systems.
So how do you explain the fact that we are taking over three times more losses than people in highsec despite the fact that highsec has six times more population?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Valterra Craven
491
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:36:07 -
[1682] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Why call a lie anything other than what it is?
A. Because its not actually a lie. B. Because it serves no purpose C. It makes you worse than your opponent. |
Valterra Craven
491
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:36:53 -
[1683] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Because it hurts their feelings when they're called out on their bullshit.
Hey, if you think its bullshit, then the counter to bullshit is facts and data. You know what bullshit isn't? A lie.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11871
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:38:16 -
[1684] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:http://evelostfound.blogspot.com/2015/01/is-pve-safer-in-high-sec-or-null-sec.html
This was a very nice and recent analysis using not only ship death/npc ratios but also ship death value.
Their conclusion? Null PVE is completely broken because of how safe it is. Even the worst people at defending their ratters (CFC) were more than 3x safer in terms of real isk value than comparable highsec systems. So how do you explain the fact that we are taking over three times more losses than people in highsec despite the fact that highsec has six times more population?
Oh that's not relevant because it doesn't serve their narrative.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Valterra Craven
491
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:38:25 -
[1685] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
So how do you explain the fact that we are taking over three times more losses than people in highsec despite the fact that highsec has six times more population?
How do you explain the fact that null-sec carebears as much as hi-sec despite having 6 times less population? |
Valterra Craven
491
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:39:10 -
[1686] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Oh that's not relevant because it doesn't serve their narrative.
Oh its definitely relevant.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23061
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:39:16 -
[1687] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:http://evelostfound.blogspot.com/2015/01/is-pve-safer-in-high-sec-or-null-sec.html
This was a very nice and recent analysis using not only ship death/npc ratios but also ship death value.
Their conclusion? Null PVE is completely broken because of how safe it is. Even the worst people at defending their ratters (CFC) were more than 3x safer in terms of real isk value than comparable highsec systems. My conclusions from reading the article.
More people fly blingy ships for highsec PvE than for nullsec PvE. People in nullsec dock up when there are neutrals or reds in local, people in highsec generally don't. Far more NPCs die in highsec than in nullsec, probably as a result of the much higher player population and the resulting higher number of players who kill NPCs for income.
The comments on that article are bang on the money, even Gevlons....
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
92
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:41:18 -
[1688] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:http://evelostfound.blogspot.com/2015/01/is-pve-safer-in-high-sec-or-null-sec.html
This was a very nice and recent analysis using not only ship death/npc ratios but also ship death value.
Their conclusion? Null PVE is completely broken because of how safe it is. Even the worst people at defending their ratters (CFC) were more than 3x safer in terms of real isk value than comparable highsec systems. So how do you explain the fact that we are taking over three times more losses than people in highsec despite the fact that highsec has six times more population?
You arent, I already posted the STATS... number don't lie, but I know of quite a few Goons that do |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23061
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:42:29 -
[1689] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:http://evelostfound.blogspot.com/2015/01/is-pve-safer-in-high-sec-or-null-sec.html
This was a very nice and recent analysis using not only ship death/npc ratios but also ship death value.
Their conclusion? Null PVE is completely broken because of how safe it is. Even the worst people at defending their ratters (CFC) were more than 3x safer in terms of real isk value than comparable highsec systems. So how do you explain the fact that we are taking over three times more losses than people in highsec despite the fact that highsec has six times more population? You arent, I already posted the STATS... number don't lie, but I know of quite a few Goons that do Nope you posted a link to an article that the author admits is methodologically weak.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15077
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:44:48 -
[1690] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:
A. Because its not actually a lie. B. Because it serves no purpose C. It makes you worse than your opponent.
If people don't like being called out then perhaps they should not lie in the first place.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
|
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
92
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:45:26 -
[1691] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:http://evelostfound.blogspot.com/2015/01/is-pve-safer-in-high-sec-or-null-sec.html
This was a very nice and recent analysis using not only ship death/npc ratios but also ship death value.
Their conclusion? Null PVE is completely broken because of how safe it is. Even the worst people at defending their ratters (CFC) were more than 3x safer in terms of real isk value than comparable highsec systems. My conclusions from reading the article. More people fly blingy ships for highsec PvE than for nullsec PvE. People in nullsec dock up when there are neutrals or reds in local, people in highsec generally don't. Far more NPCs die in highsec than in nullsec, probably as a result of the much higher player population and the resulting higher number of players who kill NPCs for income. The comments on that article are bang on the money, even Gevlons....
Again, you can't argue numbers. NPC kills in nullsec are not lower by a significant margin compared to highsec. So you have 1/6th the population as you guys claim but only 25% less npc kills.... must mean you are all carebears. |
Valterra Craven
494
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:52:14 -
[1692] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Feel free to find where I have lied.
Feel free to find where anyone else has lied. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11871
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:53:59 -
[1693] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Feel free to find where I have lied.
Feel free to find where anyone else has lied.
The alt has in the last few pages notably.
You, across the whole thread.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15078
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:54:26 -
[1694] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Again, you can't argue numbers. NPC kills in nullsec are not lower by a significant margin compared to highsec. So you have 1/6th the population as you guys claim but only 25% less npc kills.... must mean you are all carebears.
Primary source of income in null is from bounties. Primary source of income in highsec is LP.
We have to kill a lot of NPCs in null to make isk while high sec players need to do missions for LP, killing rats is secondary at best.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
92
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:56:20 -
[1695] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Again, you can't argue numbers. NPC kills in nullsec are not lower by a significant margin compared to highsec. So you have 1/6th the population as you guys claim but only 25% less npc kills.... must mean you are all carebears.
Primary source of income in null is from bounties. Primary source of income in highsec is LP. We have to kill a lot of NPCs in null to make isk while high sec players need to do missions for LP, killing rats is secondary at best.
Back that up...
And, again what does that have to do with Null being safer? |
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11871
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:56:45 -
[1696] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Again, you can't argue numbers. NPC kills in nullsec are not lower by a significant margin compared to highsec. So you have 1/6th the population as you guys claim but only 25% less npc kills.... must mean you are all carebears.
Primary source of income in null is from bounties. Primary source of income in highsec is LP. We have to kill a lot of NPCs in null to make isk while high sec players need to do missions for LP, killing rats is secondary at best.
Aww, you gave it away. I was wondering how many pages they could go before they managed to figure that out.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15082
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:58:47 -
[1697] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:
Feel free to find where anyone else has lied.
How about the last few days where three posters have said:
More people die in highsec than in null.
Null is safer than highsec
You earn more running anoms than running level 4 missions or incursions in highsec
Goons are the only people ratting in Dek
only 9 ratting carriers died in dek this month
and so forth. All have been shown to be wrong but they continue to insist that the above is true. This is why we are calling them out for lying.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23062
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 01:59:25 -
[1698] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:http://evelostfound.blogspot.com/2015/01/is-pve-safer-in-high-sec-or-null-sec.html
This was a very nice and recent analysis using not only ship death/npc ratios but also ship death value.
Their conclusion? Null PVE is completely broken because of how safe it is. Even the worst people at defending their ratters (CFC) were more than 3x safer in terms of real isk value than comparable highsec systems. My conclusions from reading the article. More people fly blingy ships for highsec PvE than for nullsec PvE. People in nullsec dock up when there are neutrals or reds in local, people in highsec generally don't. Far more NPCs die in highsec than in nullsec, probably as a result of the much higher player population and the resulting higher number of players who kill NPCs for income. The comments on that article are bang on the money, even Gevlons.... Again, you can't argue numbers. NPC kills in nullsec are not lower by a significant margin compared to highsec. So you have 1/6th the population as you guys claim but only 25% less npc kills.... must mean you are all carebears. You certainly can argue numbers when the comparisons are skewed, in the article you linked the author takes 3 highsec systems, and compares them to 8 nullsec systems.
If you take the top 3 nullsec systems and compare them to the top 3 highsec systems the numbers are vastly different.
For example: Sheroo compared to S-DN5M reveals 822,000+ more NPC kills in Sheroo than in S-DN5M for the month of december. Over double the amount of NPC Kills for 12 more ship losses (21-9)
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15082
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:00:31 -
[1699] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Again, you can't argue numbers. NPC kills in nullsec are not lower by a significant margin compared to highsec. So you have 1/6th the population as you guys claim but only 25% less npc kills.... must mean you are all carebears.
Primary source of income in null is from bounties. Primary source of income in highsec is LP. We have to kill a lot of NPCs in null to make isk while high sec players need to do missions for LP, killing rats is secondary at best. Back that up... And, again what does that have to do with Null being safer?
And shock horror, when its pointed out that you are again trying to twist the number to your argument you again try to change the subject with another lie.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
92
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:01:48 -
[1700] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:
Feel free to find where anyone else has lied.
How about the last few days where three posters have said: More people die in highsec than in null. Null is safer than highsec You earn more running anoms than running level 4 missions or incursions in highsec Goons are the only people ratting in Dek only 9 ratting carriers died in dek this month and so forth. All have been shown to be wrong but they continue to insist that the above is true. This is why we are calling them out for lying.
More people do die in Highsec than null... API data proves that
Null has less death, astronomically less death than low as well
No one said goons are the only ratters in Dek... in fact I even said I wasn't counting the renters. But you only read what you want to read
Only 9 ratting carriers from Goons died
You are trying to find lies where there isn't any by twisting words and taking things out of context. In fact that makes you the worst kind of liar. |
|
Valterra Craven
495
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:02:08 -
[1701] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The alt has in the last few pages notably.
You, across the whole thread.
So you got nothing. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
92
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:02:38 -
[1702] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Again, you can't argue numbers. NPC kills in nullsec are not lower by a significant margin compared to highsec. So you have 1/6th the population as you guys claim but only 25% less npc kills.... must mean you are all carebears.
Primary source of income in null is from bounties. Primary source of income in highsec is LP. We have to kill a lot of NPCs in null to make isk while high sec players need to do missions for LP, killing rats is secondary at best. Back that up... And, again what does that have to do with Null being safer? And shock horror, when its pointed out that you are again trying to twist the number to your argument you again try to change the subject with another lie.
How the F can a question be a lie? |
Valterra Craven
495
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:03:16 -
[1703] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:[quote=Market McSelling Alt] Primary source of income in null is from bounties. Primary source of income in highsec is LP.
We have to kill a lot of NPCs in null to make isk while high sec players need to do missions for LP, killing rats is secondary at best.
Except that you don't even understand how the LP market works. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
92
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:04:02 -
[1704] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:http://evelostfound.blogspot.com/2015/01/is-pve-safer-in-high-sec-or-null-sec.html
This was a very nice and recent analysis using not only ship death/npc ratios but also ship death value.
Their conclusion? Null PVE is completely broken because of how safe it is. Even the worst people at defending their ratters (CFC) were more than 3x safer in terms of real isk value than comparable highsec systems. My conclusions from reading the article. More people fly blingy ships for highsec PvE than for nullsec PvE. People in nullsec dock up when there are neutrals or reds in local, people in highsec generally don't. Far more NPCs die in highsec than in nullsec, probably as a result of the much higher player population and the resulting higher number of players who kill NPCs for income. The comments on that article are bang on the money, even Gevlons.... Again, you can't argue numbers. NPC kills in nullsec are not lower by a significant margin compared to highsec. So you have 1/6th the population as you guys claim but only 25% less npc kills.... must mean you are all carebears. You certainly can argue numbers when the comparisons are skewed, in the article you linked the author takes 3 highsec systems, and compares them to 8 nullsec systems. If you take the top 3 nullsec systems and compare them to the top 3 highsec systems the numbers are vastly different. For example: Sheroo compared to S-DN5M reveals 822,000+ more NPC kills in Sheroo than in S-DN5M for the month of december. Over double the amount of NPC Kills for 12 more ship losses (21-9)
So now you just want to cherry pick? Yes certain high sec systems have far more NPC kills than any individual nullsec system, but Nullsec had so few kills that the ratios show the proof. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11871
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:04:11 -
[1705] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: More people do die in Highsec than null... API data proves that
And once again with the lying.
Concord's kills count for those, since they added them to the killboard pulls. So for every person killed by suicide gankers, one or more people are also killed by Concord.
That makes the number less than half of what you claim it is.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Valterra Craven
495
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:04:57 -
[1706] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
How about the last few days where three posters have said:
More people die in highsec than in null.
Null is safer than highsec
You earn more running anoms than running level 4 missions or incursions in highsec
Goons are the only people ratting in Dek
only 9 ratting carriers died in dek this month
and so forth. All have been shown to be wrong but they continue to insist that the above is true.
Proving someone wrong != proving that they are lying
baltec1 wrote: This is why we are calling them out for lying.
No, you are name calling because it suits your typing style.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23062
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:05:30 -
[1707] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:More people do die in Highsec than null... API data proves that
Null has less death, astronomically less death than low as well
Massively higher population density, it's like comparing death rates in a major city like London or NYC to that of a small village in the middle of nowhere.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11871
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:06:07 -
[1708] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: So now you just want to cherry pick?
No, you do. That's the entire basis for your argument, lies of omission.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23065
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:12:01 -
[1709] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: More people do die in Highsec than null... API data proves that
And once again with the lying. Concord's kills count for those, since they added them to the killboard pulls. So for every person killed by suicide gankers, one or more people are also killed by Concord. That makes the number less than half of what you claim it is. Actually it doesn't. If the argument is "More people die in highsec than nullsec" and the api proves this, then the statement is true. (At least that's how a computer would evaluate it) The context of the argument doesn't help in that case since its irrelevant. The statement is either true or false based on the data. Nobody is denying that more people die in highsec than nullsec, what they are pointing out is that per capita the actual death rate is much lower in highsec than it is in nullsec.
As I said in a previous post it's like comparing the death rate in a major city to that of a small village.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Valterra Craven
495
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:13:02 -
[1710] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:More people do die in Highsec than null... API data proves that
Null has less death, astronomically less death than low as well
Massively higher population density, it's like comparing death rates in a major city like London or NYC to that of a small village in the middle of nowhere.
Maybe, but given that you guys are cherry picking just as much as you are accusing him of, your argument is tainted.
No one has answered the relevant question of why we should ignore the fact that despite the population density differences, null carebears just as much as hi-sec. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 75 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |