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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11871
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:15:30 -
[1711] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote: Maybe, but given that you guys are cherry picking just as much as you are accusing him of, your argument is tainted.
We're not. Pointing out that he deliberately omitted important, and putting it back in is not cherrypicking.
You don't get to change definitions to favor yourself, or try and put up some false equivalency here.
Quote: No one has answered the relevant question of why we should ignore the fact that despite the population density differences, null carebears just as much as hi-sec.
That's not a relevant question at all. In fact it's a blatantly off topic lie.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Valterra Craven
495
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:15:40 -
[1712] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nobody is denying that more people die in highsec than nullsec, what they are pointing out is that per capita the actual death rate is much lower in highsec than it is in nullsec.
And that's fine. That wasn't the problem. The problem is this incessant need to call others liars when they can't or haven't proven that their opponents are intentionally deceiving others for a purpose. Its stupid showmanship that serves no purpose.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23066
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:17:23 -
[1713] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:More people do die in Highsec than null... API data proves that
Null has less death, astronomically less death than low as well
Massively higher population density, it's like comparing death rates in a major city like London or NYC to that of a small village in the middle of nowhere. Maybe, but given that you guys are cherry picking just as much as you are accusing him of, your argument is tainted. No one has answered the relevant question of why we should ignore the fact that despite the population density differences, null carebears just as much as hi-sec. How is the post you quoted tainted?
If 1000 people die in an area with a population numbering in the hundreds of thousands and 1000 people die in an area with a population of tens of thousands in the same time period, which has the higher death rate?
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15083
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:18:49 -
[1714] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
More people do die in Highsec than null... API data proves that
So why does CCPs own charts show that "stuff gets built in highsec and goes to die in nullsec"
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Null has less death, astronomically less death than low as well
[/quote]
One battle last year in null killed more assets than all of highsec combined for the entire month of January.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: No one said goons are the only ratters in Dek... in fact I even said I wasn't counting the renters. But you only read what you want to read
Yes, they did. We dont have renters in dek.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Only 9 ratting carriers from Goons died
You are trying to find lies where there isn't any by twisting words and taking things out of context. In fact that makes you the worst kind of liar.
It is a lie when there was 41 killed in our space, not 9.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Valterra Craven
495
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:18:58 -
[1715] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: We're not. Pointing out that he deliberately omitted important, and putting it back in is not cherrypicking.
Except that you haven't actually proved that it was deliberate. Key difference.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:[ You don't get to change definitions to favor yourself, or try and put up some false equivalency here.
Then why do you?
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: That's not a relevant question at all. In fact it's a blatantly off topic lie.
Well if you are going to argue that death is only relevant if you study the per capita rates, and the whole point of the discussion is the relative safety of null vs hi-sec when you pve, then the fact that you blatantly disregard relevant data given your definition of lying means that you are indeed calling someone out for doing the exact same things you do. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11871
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:21:11 -
[1716] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote: and the whole point of the discussion is the relative safety of null vs hi-sec when you pve
Actually, the whole point of the discussion is Hyperdunking, not that lie you just said.
You and that other monkey are just derailing the thread by lying incessantly in a "grr nullsec" narrative that no one but you believes.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
93
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:23:07 -
[1717] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:More people do die in Highsec than null... API data proves that
Null has less death, astronomically less death than low as well
Massively higher population density, it's like comparing death rates in a major city like London or NYC to that of a small village in the middle of nowhere. Maybe, but given that you guys are cherry picking just as much as you are accusing him of, your argument is tainted. No one has answered the relevant question of why we should ignore the fact that despite the population density differences, null carebears just as much as hi-sec. How is the post you quoted tainted? If 1000 people die in an area with a population numbering in the hundreds of thousands and 1000 people die in an area with tens of thousands in the same time period, which has the higher death rate?
Look either you have the same actual number of people in null PVEing that you do in Highsec to get the same kill numbers, or you have a very small population that is exploiting the riches of nullsec with near 24/7 PVE activity. But at the end of the day if there were 100% of that population number in highsec in PVE, then the numbers on the API would show a large difference between the two.
We are of course ignoring that belts have 3-5 rats and missions have 30-50. But for the sake of simplicity no one has been able to explain how Null is dangerous when so much PVE is actually happening.
Also last numbers from Dr Eyjo before he left was 21% population living in Null, 65% in High, but he admitted at fanfest that most null players return to Highsec to log off for extended periods of time so the numbers could be wrong. |
Valterra Craven
495
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:24:23 -
[1718] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Actually, the whole point of the discussion is Hyperdunking, not that lie you just said.
Oh, so you admit to being an accessory in derailing this thread?
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: You and that other monkey are just derailing the thread by lying incessantly in a "grr nullsec" narrative that no one but you believes.
Well given my original post had nothing to do with nullsec, and none of my arguments did after, maybe you want to actually read what I've been arguing instead of making assumptions? |
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11871
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:25:18 -
[1719] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:But at the end of the day if there were 100% of that population number in highsec in PVE, then the numbers on the API would show a large difference between the two.
Another lie.
No, it would not. The resources of nullsec are finite, and rather small in comparison to the literally limitless missions of highsec.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
93
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:25:37 -
[1720] - Quote
CCP's chart shows that stuff is produced in Highsec and it dies in High and Low
I already told you that zkillboard and your own killboards don't show 41 carriers, so if you have links to your data I would make a correction in my statement. But you now have made this claim over and over but I don't see said data. |
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
93
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:26:23 -
[1721] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:But at the end of the day if there were 100% of that population number in highsec in PVE, then the numbers on the API would show a large difference between the two. Another lie. No, it would not. The resources of nullsec are finite, and rather small in comparison to the literally limitless missions of highsec.
BS
Anoms are guaranteed to respawn, belts always get new rats. How can you with a straight face call ME the liar? |
Valterra Craven
496
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:27:53 -
[1722] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:[How is the post you quoted tainted?
How is it not tainted? If your argument is that the numbers need to be weighted on a per capita basis to make things fair, then you can't on the other hand say that the actual activity in the two regions shouldn't add additional weight to the argument as well. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15084
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:28:16 -
[1723] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
We are of course ignoring that belts have 3-5 rats and missions have 30-50. But for the sake of simplicity no one has been able to explain how Null is dangerous when so much PVE is actually happening.
Once again. Mission runners do not need to kill those NPCs, the income comes from LP not rat bounties. Just about every mission does not require full room clearing.
Null sec the primary income comes from anoms and the isk comes from almost entirely bounties and you must clear the entire anom to get it to respawn. Nobody belt rats, as has already been explained twice now.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11871
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:28:24 -
[1724] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:But at the end of the day if there were 100% of that population number in highsec in PVE, then the numbers on the API would show a large difference between the two. Another lie. No, it would not. The resources of nullsec are finite, and rather small in comparison to the literally limitless missions of highsec. BS Anoms are guaranteed to respawn, belts always get new rats. How can you with a straight face call ME the liar?
Yes, I call you the liar with a straight face.
Or are you actually so ignorant as to understand how anoms work in proportion to population density?
Both are equally damning of your own argument, as well as the remaining shreds of your credibility.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23068
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:29:11 -
[1725] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Well if you are going to argue that death is only relevant if you study the per capita ratesa nd the whole point of the discussion is the relative safety of null vs hi-sec when you pve When comparing relative safety, the per capita rate is the one that is commonly used; population numbers have a very definite effect on crime and death.
Quote:then the fact that you blatantly disregard relevant data You mean like Market McSelling Alt does?
Quote:who given your definition of lying means that you are indeed calling someone out for doing the exact same things you do. I don't see Kaarous ignoring data because it doesn't fit his arguments.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Valterra Craven
496
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:29:33 -
[1726] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: No, it would not. The resources of nullsec are finite, and rather small in comparison to the literally limitless missions of highsec.
Actually that's not true. Given that you acknowledged that things like asteroids infinitely respawn, and npcs also exist in null sec space, (as well as missions) then null sec space also has infinite resources. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15084
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:32:36 -
[1727] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
CCP's chart shows that stuff is produced in Highsec and it dies in High and Low
Wrong
Market McSelling Alt wrote: I already told you that zkillboard and your own killboards don't show 41 carriers, so if you have links to your data I would make a correction in my statement. But you now have made this claim over and over but I don't see said data.
CFC is not just goons.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Valterra Craven
496
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:33:09 -
[1728] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: the income comes from LP not rat bounties.
And once again, you haven't actually proven that this is the case. The problem with this argument is that it assume everyone in hi-sec is doing all missions optimally and only for LP. Which again you have yet to prove is even a majority, or an average, of even relevant to how most people run missions. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11871
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:33:33 -
[1729] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: No, it would not. The resources of nullsec are finite, and rather small in comparison to the literally limitless missions of highsec.
Actually that's not true. Given that you acknowledged that things like asteroids infinitely respawn, and npcs also exist in null sec space, (as well as missions) then null sec space also has infinite resources.
And yet more lies.
Anoms are not infinite, nor infinitely scalable to population size. Missions are.
And somehow, you dispute this fact.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
93
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:34:19 -
[1730] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
CCP's chart shows that stuff is produced in Highsec and it dies in High and Low
WrongMarket McSelling Alt wrote: I already told you that zkillboard and your own killboards don't show 41 carriers, so if you have links to your data I would make a correction in my statement. But you now have made this claim over and over but I don't see said data.
CFC is not just goons.
LOL Keep watching past that one point... he explains how much of a moron you are. |
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15088
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:35:22 -
[1731] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: No, it would not. The resources of nullsec are finite, and rather small in comparison to the literally limitless missions of highsec.
Actually that's not true. Given that you acknowledged that things like asteroids infinitely respawn, and npcs also exist in null sec space, (as well as missions) then null sec space also has infinite resources.
It doesn't. Missions are infinity scalable, anoms are not.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15088
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:36:11 -
[1732] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
LOL Keep watching past that one point... he explains how much of a moron you are.
He literally says that stuff is built in high and low and dies in null.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
93
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:36:19 -
[1733] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: No, it would not. The resources of nullsec are finite, and rather small in comparison to the literally limitless missions of highsec.
Actually that's not true. Given that you acknowledged that things like asteroids infinitely respawn, and npcs also exist in null sec space, (as well as missions) then null sec space also has infinite resources. And yet more lies. Anoms are not infinite, nor infinitely scalable to population size. Missions are. And somehow, you dispute this fact.
Anoms respawn after they are finished, so yes they are infinite... also there are missions in Null as well... also belt rats respawn every tick.
Because you said it doesn't make it fact... |
Valterra Craven
496
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:36:42 -
[1734] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: When comparing relative safety, the per capita rate is the one that is commonly used; population numbers have a very definite effect on crime and death.
And safety has no meaning without also studying the results of that safety.
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You mean like Market McSelling Alt does?
I didn't say he doesn't. I said that you are calling him out on it while also doing it.
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I don't see Kaarous ignoring data because it doesn't fit his arguments.
Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11871
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:37:10 -
[1735] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Anoms respawn after they are finished, so yes they are infinite... also there are missions in Null as well... also belt rats respawn every tick.
Because you said it doesn't make it fact...
He really is this committed to the lie, folks.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Valterra Craven
496
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:37:35 -
[1736] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: It doesn't. Missions are infinity scalable, anoms are not.
And null sec also has missions. I know because delve is littered with NPC stations with Blood Raider agents.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
93
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:37:42 -
[1737] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
LOL Keep watching past that one point... he explains how much of a moron you are.
He literally says that stuff is built in high and low and dies in null.
Because things that are made in highsec are killed in null... just because he doesn't point out that MOST ships are killed in Low, and second to that Highsec, and then Null with WH shortly behind, doesn't mean that Null is the only place things are killed.
But he also shows how a couple small battles... BATTLES, CONSENSUAL PVP, screwed up his numbers. |
Valterra Craven
496
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:38:21 -
[1738] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And somehow, you dispute this fact.
I don't dispute the fact. The fact that I dispute is that null sec doesn't have missions.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
93
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Posted - 2015.02.22 02:38:30 -
[1739] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: Anoms respawn after they are finished, so yes they are infinite... also there are missions in Null as well... also belt rats respawn every tick.
Because you said it doesn't make it fact...
He really is this committed to the lie, folks.
You do know how upgraded systems work right? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15088
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 02:38:59 -
[1740] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:baltec1 wrote: the income comes from LP not rat bounties.
And once again, you haven't actually proven that this is the case. The problem with this argument is that it assume everyone in hi-sec is doing all missions optimally and only for LP. Which again you have yet to prove is even a majority, or an average, of even relevant to how most people run missions.
Show me evidence that most are not. All mission guides tell you how to blitz them. All advice given is to blitz them. The most popular fits are geared towards blitzing them.
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