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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
eliminator2
Moretsu pirates
23
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Posted - 2015.03.08 13:32:21 -
[1951] - Quote
probe down bowhead and then just sit in sniper ship waiting for the criminal to come get a fresh ship and insta pop |
Revis Owen
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
120
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Posted - 2015.03.10 23:58:50 -
[1952] - Quote
eliminator2 wrote:probe down bowhead and then just sit in sniper ship waiting for the criminal to come get a fresh ship and insta pop
How dare you suggest that people use existing game mechanics and tools to deal with their problems? How DARE you?
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Highsec Operations Permit, please contact me for issuance.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16163
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Posted - 2015.03.11 17:50:09 -
[1953] - Quote
Erasmus Grant wrote:What kind of world would alot a clone with a consistent criminal record to be reactivated, at least without some kind of imprisonment?
Hyper dunking can work both ways.
The kind of world that allows private individuals to own more fully armed modern warships than the US and Royal navies ever commissioned.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1555
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Posted - 2015.03.11 18:42:35 -
[1954] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Erasmus Grant wrote:What kind of world would alot a clone with a consistent criminal record to be reactivated, at least without some kind of imprisonment?
Hyper dunking can work both ways. The kind of world that allows private individuals to own more fully armed modern warships than the US and Royal navies ever commissioned. The problem is: neither in RL or in Eve Online we can observe such world.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Kuga
Back Door Burglars Northern Associates.
29
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Posted - 2015.03.17 19:52:47 -
[1955] - Quote
Frankly this a ridiculous tactic which abuses incomplete game mechanics and this response from the development team disappointingly appears to roughly translate to 'we know about it, but can't really be bothered going about fixing it'.
I've ever fallen victim to it (I don't freight), but its inane nature should certainly warrant a little more attention than the dev. team are currently willing to invest. Bad mechanics are bad for game sales. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16182
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Posted - 2015.03.23 08:20:24 -
[1956] - Quote
Kuga wrote:Frankly this a ridiculous tactic which abuses incomplete game mechanics and this response from the development team disappointingly appears to roughly translate to 'we know about it, but can't really be bothered going about fixing it'.
I've ever fallen victim to it (I don't freight), but its inane nature should certainly warrant a little more attention than the dev. team are currently willing to invest. Bad mechanics are bad for game sales.
CONCORD is itself a horrible game mechanic.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
41
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Posted - 2015.03.26 22:39:59 -
[1957] - Quote
Wow, this is a long threat. I didnt read all of it, in fact only a few pages. It took a while for me to figure out, what hyperdunking actually means. But if a criminal timer (red flash) deactivates the ability to warp a ship, shouldnt it deactivate any ship systems, wich means preventing any module activation?
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen."(Zitat eines Singles)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind."(Zitat von einem, dem es egal ist)
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Paranoid Loyd
4398
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Posted - 2015.03.26 22:48:46 -
[1958] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote: But if a criminal timer (red flash) deactivates the ability to warp a ship, shouldnt it deactivate any ship systems, wich means preventing any module activation?
Maybe you could explain how it would be possible to gank if this were the case?
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
41
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Posted - 2015.03.26 23:44:30 -
[1959] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote: But if a criminal timer (red flash) deactivates the ability to warp a ship, shouldnt it deactivate any ship systems, wich means preventing any module activation?
Maybe you could explain how it would be possible to gank if this were the case? You are right. Maybe after the attack ship exploded and you reship.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen."(Zitat eines Singles)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind."(Zitat von einem, dem es egal ist)
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Daerrol
Furtherance.
84
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Posted - 2015.04.02 16:45:18 -
[1960] - Quote
Why not just hyperdunk the hyperdunkers...? If you can solo anyship in the game now, solo their Bowhead. |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23423
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Posted - 2015.04.03 01:14:09 -
[1961] - Quote
Daerrol wrote:Why not just hyperdunk the hyperdunkers...? If you can solo anyship in the game now, solo their Bowhead. It requires effort and can't be done afk.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6534
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Posted - 2015.04.03 15:13:31 -
[1962] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Daerrol wrote:Why not just hyperdunk the hyperdunkers...? If you can solo anyship in the game now, solo their Bowhead. It requires effort and can't be done afk.
There's a thread about nerfing AFK cloaking that you need to jump into BTW. I expect to see you there NOT showing double standards.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
902
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Posted - 2015.04.03 17:18:21 -
[1963] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Daerrol wrote:Why not just hyperdunk the hyperdunkers...? If you can solo anyship in the game now, solo their Bowhead. It requires effort and can't be done afk. There's a thread about nerfing AFK cloaking that you need to jump into BTW. I expect to see you there NOT showing double standards. You don't actually kill ships when cloacked and/or AFK
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23439
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Posted - 2015.04.04 00:00:24 -
[1964] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Daerrol wrote:Why not just hyperdunk the hyperdunkers...? If you can solo anyship in the game now, solo their Bowhead. It requires effort and can't be done afk. There's a thread about nerfing AFK cloaking that you need to jump into BTW. I expect to see you there NOT showing double standards. If you look at my post history I rarely if ever post on subjects that aren't highsec related.
AFK cloaking doesn't affect the way I play, or the areas of the game that I spend the most time in. As such I have no need or interest in campaigning one way or the other with regards to it.
That said, the only thing an AFK cloaker is capable of doing, via virtue of game mechanics, is prey on the fear and ignorance of others.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Maxpie
MUSE Buy-n-Large Metaphysical Utopian Society Enterprises
442
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Posted - 2015.05.27 22:26:57 -
[1965] - Quote
Counselor Gina wrote:I'm fairly new - not a ganker or a freighter, so I really have no horse in this race - but I've always had a question.
It seems like the vast majority of contested methods of attack all come down to bumping not being considered an act of aggression. Why is it that way? Bumping can almost indefinitely prevent warp (right?), and as long as your locked (another act of non-aggression), you can't log off either? I get bumps happen non-aggressively from time to time - but freighters tell me (I contract them a ton) they get bumped for 10, 20, 30 minutes and more. If this is not an act of aggression, why is my scram or point?
Again, I'm pretty ambivalent to it either way, I'm just wondering the historical roots for this decision?
Nobody seems to have a real answer to this question. I have no issue with ganking freighters, but I don't think someone should essentially have the ability to keep me from being able to log off for an unreasonable amount of time. I have choose between geting ganked while offline, or to stay up all night at the whim of someone else, because someone wants to lock and bump my ship endlessly? That's just poor gameplay. Put a time limit on it, for example, say gank within 20 minutes or let the ship go otherwise you are griefing.
No good deed goes unpunished
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13164
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Posted - 2015.05.27 23:49:58 -
[1966] - Quote
Maxpie wrote: Nobody seems to have a real answer to this question.
What, as to why bumping is not a mechanically hostile act? For starters, because it happens very frequently over the course of normal gameplay, with no hostile intent.
Secondly, as a result of the first point, the game engine is quite literally fully incapable of determining intent of someone who is involved in a bump.
And thirdly, because recoding the game's base physics engine is something that CCP is literally not capable of.
Quote: I have no issue with ganking freighters, but I don't think someone should essentially have the ability to keep me from being able to log off for an unreasonable amount of time.
Then fly with a web escort. The rules for "harassment" require you to have made an effort to move away from someone bumping you, and no, pushing the "warp to" button a few more times doesn't count.
Quote: I have choose between geting ganked while offline, or to stay up all night at the whim of someone else, because someone wants to lock and bump my ship endlessly? That's just poor gameplay. Put a time limit on it, for example, say gank within 20 minutes or let the ship go otherwise you are griefing.
Or you can play with more than half of your ass, and never encounter this situation in the first place. As I said above, use a web escort.
Oh, and "griefing" is what CCP says it is, not whatever mealy mouthed carebear definition you're trying to foist. This is, by the only definition that matters, not griefing. Get used to it.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
247
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Posted - 2015.05.28 01:37:43 -
[1967] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Talos Antilles wrote:I was wondering the same thing: "..even if you later return to that grid while still affected by that GCC." The exploit mentioned there was a way to avoid CONCORD retribution by warping around on-grid GÇö breaking the single rule with CONCORD. So two things make it inapplicable in this case: one is that the boomerang tactic was patched out; the other is that it was outlawed because you avoided CONCORD retribution in order to keep your ship and keep killing, whereas the entire point of chain-ganking (I will not use that sophomoric h-word) is that it relies on losing your ship CONCORD retribution in order for the whole thing to actually work. So as Falcon points out, it's an outdated ruling from a mechanical standpoint, and it is an inapplicable ruling from a technical standpoint. Bagrat Skalski wrote:So when can we expect CONCORD podding the criminals? Never. Podding is a 100% player activity and there's no reason for NPCs to ever do it. Have you fought drifters yet?
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
145
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Posted - 2015.05.28 06:07:20 -
[1968] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:I obviously don't set policy but there's a big difference between the two and so it's reasonable you'd treat them differently. The boomerang allowed you to get a ****-ton more damage out of a single ship - this just lets you get a lot more damage out of a single pilot in a specific timeframe at a cost of increased ships. With the boomerang (before it was banned) I could clear out most of an ice belt in a single tornado by warping to the top and bottom, alphaing, then warping away before i got blown up - I'd die eventually, but I'd kill way more ships per lost tornado. This doesn't have the same ability to let me get way more out of a single ship before it explodes.
People boomerang all the time when camping enemy militia trade hubs in highsec.
There is currently a billing error with CCP regarding Paypal, which is asking for a credit card and recurring subs, both of which have not been required in the past. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=423499&find=unread
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
145
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Posted - 2015.05.28 06:12:26 -
[1969] - Quote
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
The criminal timer is supposed to mean that you are prevented from operating while under it, which is why you can't warp with it running.
If the purpose of the GCC timer was to completely shut you down, then you wouldn't be able to board a ship while under a GCC timer.
[/quote]
I heard that the game was about freedom for players to do stupid things, so long as that stupid thing wasn't gamebreaking for everyone else and only hurt them.
There is currently a billing error with CCP regarding Paypal, which is asking for a credit card and recurring subs, both of which have not been required in the past. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=423499&find=unread
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Solstice Punk
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
8
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Posted - 2015.05.28 12:05:29 -
[1970] - Quote
Maxpie wrote:Counselor Gina wrote:I'm fairly new - not a ganker or a freighter, so I really have no horse in this race - but I've always had a question.
It seems like the vast majority of contested methods of attack all come down to bumping not being considered an act of aggression. Why is it that way? Bumping can almost indefinitely prevent warp (right?), and as long as your locked (another act of non-aggression), you can't log off either? I get bumps happen non-aggressively from time to time - but freighters tell me (I contract them a ton) they get bumped for 10, 20, 30 minutes and more. If this is not an act of aggression, why is my scram or point?
Again, I'm pretty ambivalent to it either way, I'm just wondering the historical roots for this decision? Nobody seems to have a real answer to this question. I have no issue with ganking freighters, but I don't think someone should essentially have the ability to keep me from being able to log off for an unreasonable amount of time. I have choose between geting ganked while offline, or to stay up all night at the whim of someone else, because someone wants to lock and bump my ship endlessly? That's just poor gameplay. Put a time limit on it, for example, say gank within 20 minutes or let the ship go otherwise you are griefing. The forum-griefer here necro'd a thread that was over a month lost in the void already.
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
304
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Posted - 2015.05.28 15:22:45 -
[1971] - Quote
Welcome to Eve, where everything is a game feature until it gets exploited into oblivion.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Mag's
the united
19506
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Posted - 2015.05.28 21:09:17 -
[1972] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
If the purpose of the GCC timer was to completely shut you down, then you wouldn't be able to board a ship while under a GCC timer.
I heard that the game was about freedom for players to do stupid things, so long as that stupid thing wasn't gamebreaking for everyone else and only hurt them. So how does that change this situation in anyway?
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Paranoid Loyd
5412
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Posted - 2015.05.28 21:22:33 -
[1973] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:I obviously don't set policy but there's a big difference between the two and so it's reasonable you'd treat them differently. The boomerang allowed you to get a ****-ton more damage out of a single ship - this just lets you get a lot more damage out of a single pilot in a specific timeframe at a cost of increased ships. With the boomerang (before it was banned) I could clear out most of an ice belt in a single tornado by warping to the top and bottom, alphaing, then warping away before i got blown up - I'd die eventually, but I'd kill way more ships per lost tornado. This doesn't have the same ability to let me get way more out of a single ship before it explodes. People boomerang all the time when camping enemy militia trade hubs in highsec. You do realize there is a difference between Concord and Faction Navies right?
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13169
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Posted - 2015.05.28 23:08:07 -
[1974] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote: You do realize there is a difference between Concord and Faction Navies right?
They really don't, I believe.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Maxpie
MUSE Buy-n-Large Metaphysical Utopian Society Enterprises
442
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Posted - 2015.06.01 20:25:30 -
[1975] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Maxpie wrote: Nobody seems to have a real answer to this question.
What, as to why bumping is not a mechanically hostile act? For starters, because it happens very frequently over the course of normal gameplay, with no hostile intent. Secondly, as a result of the first point, the game engine is quite literally fully incapable of determining intent of someone who is involved in a bump. And thirdly, because recoding the game's base physics engine is something that CCP is literally not capable of. Quote: I have no issue with ganking freighters, but I don't think someone should essentially have the ability to keep me from being able to log off for an unreasonable amount of time.
Then fly with a web escort. The rules for "harassment" require you to have made an effort to move away from someone bumping you, and no, pushing the "warp to" button a few more times doesn't count. Quote: I have choose between geting ganked while offline, or to stay up all night at the whim of someone else, because someone wants to lock and bump my ship endlessly? That's just poor gameplay. Put a time limit on it, for example, say gank within 20 minutes or let the ship go otherwise you are griefing.
Or you can play with more than half of your ass, and never encounter this situation in the first place. As I said above, use a web escort. Oh, and "griefing" is what CCP says it is, not whatever mealy mouthed carebear definition you're trying to foist. This is, by the only definition that matters, not griefing. Get used to it.
Lol, what's your problem dude? I don't play with my ass (I guess you do?).
Yes, if I'm moving a freighter I use a web escort just because it's so slow and boring. Or to quote myself "nothing fun ever happens in a freighter". I actually advise new player not to train freighter for this reason.
I don't think that changes the issue though. Not everyone has a web escort and it shouldn't be required for them to have one if they want to be able to log off and go to bed. You think it's ok to just bump someone until downtime? Really? That's sad. I think you take a computer game much too seriously if this is what's important to you.
No good deed goes unpunished
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13257
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Posted - 2015.06.01 20:29:20 -
[1976] - Quote
Maxpie wrote:Not everyone has a web escort and it shouldn't be required for them to have one if they want to be able to log off and go to bed.
They're not "required", but if you choose not to use proven measures for defending yourself, you're rolling the dice.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Headhunter DK
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.06.01 20:43:19 -
[1977] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Since the introduction of the Bowhead freighter, weGÇÖve become aware of a tactic that has been introduced which has become known as GÇ£HyperdunkingGÇ¥. This involves leaving a grid where a criminal action occurs to draw away CONCORD and reshipping to continue shooting at a target. ThereGÇÖs been much discussion among members of the community regarding this tactic, and whether or not it is considered legitimate gameplay.
After meeting with members of the game design and customer support teams and discussing this in depth, we have come to the consensus that due to the fact no rules are being broken and any ship that is involved in a criminal act is being destroyed by CONCORD as intended, that this tactic is simply an unintended but legitimate use of new game mechanics, and is not in breach of the rules. Tactics similar to this have been used with previous hulls before the Bowhead was introduced, and have been considered perfectly legitimate in the past.
With this in mind, at this time we do not consider this tactic to be in breach of the game rules, and as such our customer support team will not be offering reimbursements for hulls lost in this manner.
Players are also reminded that if someone is criminally flagged, they are fair game to be attacked in self-defense. Feel free to use this to your advantage.
What are you going to do about machariels bumping freighters or similar large ships in high sec? as i see it, it in an unfair and abusive use of game mechanics, because you have no method of retribution or escape whatsoever. If a mach bumps u in high sec, he can keep u bumped and unable to get away, sinec he is just bumping he is not being falgged in any way so none of ur alts, corp mates, alliance mates or anyone else for that matter, can attack or stop the bumper from commiting what is clearly a hostile action. The idea itself that a player can keep another player stuck in space for litterally forever if he so wished is just plain stupid. How can that be intended game mechanics, when there is no possible way to stop it. And no, getting 5 friends or so to come to you in their own machs or so to counter bump (if thats even possible lol) is not an option. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13257
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Posted - 2015.06.01 20:46:01 -
[1978] - Quote
[quote=Headhunter DK] What are you going to do about machariels bumping freighters or similar large ships in high sec? as i see it, it in an unfair and abusive use of game mechanics, because you have no method of retribution or escape whatsoever.
Wrong.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Christopher Mabata
The Interstellar Manipulation Consortium
355
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Posted - 2015.06.01 22:34:52 -
[1979] - Quote
Headhunter DK wrote: What are you going to do about machariels bumping freighters or similar large ships in high sec? as i see it, it in an unfair and abusive use of game mechanics, because you have no method of retribution or escape whatsoever. If a mach bumps u in high sec, he can keep u bumped and unable to get away, sinec he is just bumping he is not being falgged in any way so none of ur alts, corp mates, alliance mates or anyone else for that matter, can attack or stop the bumper from commiting what is clearly a hostile action. The idea itself that a player can keep another player stuck in space for litterally forever if he so wished is just plain stupid. How can that be intended game mechanics, when there is no possible way to stop it. And no, getting 5 friends or so to come to you in their own machs or so to counter bump (if thats even possible lol) is not an option.
They're not going to do anything about it because its legitimate game play, sometimes called meta-gaming.
Part of being successful in eve is learning how to use every aspect you can to your advantage, this is one of dozens of examples. If you don't like being bumped, use an escort, use a scout, suicide web/scram the bumper with an alt long enough to get away, counter bump the bumper, counter bump your ship into warp, bring a logi or combat escort for the gank and make sure it fails. What so many people dont realize is its not CCP's job to protect your assets and make you safer, its your job to show that you can take care of your stuff and if you cant then you've got no right to be angry when someone takes it from you, presumably by force.
Theory-Crafter, Free Agent, Immortal Space Pirate. Generally Crazy and difficult to understand at times.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23836
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Posted - 2015.06.01 23:40:44 -
[1980] - Quote
Headhunter DK wrote: What are you going to do about machariels bumping freighters or similar large ships in high sec? as i see it, it in an unfair and abusive use of game mechanics, because you have no method of retribution or escape whatsoever. If a mach bumps u in high sec, he can keep u bumped and unable to get away, sinec he is just bumping he is not being falgged in any way so none of ur alts, corp mates, alliance mates or anyone else for that matter, can attack or stop the bumper from commiting what is clearly a hostile action. The idea itself that a player can keep another player stuck in space for litterally forever if he so wished is just plain stupid.
CCP disagree, and there's multiple ways to get around being bumped
Quote:How can that be intended game mechanics, when there is no possible way to stop it. It's not intended gameplay, it's emergent gameplay; something that Eve is renowned for and that CCP actively encourage.
Quote: And no, getting 5 friends or so to come to you in their own machs or so to counter bump (if thats even possible lol) is not an option. Why not? Bumpers and gankers have to bring their friends along to do their thing, what makes you so special that you feel exempt from doing the same?
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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