Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
J Slowacki
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 13:48:53 -
[1] - Quote
Hello everyone,
So after grinding missions and killing rats I've finally made enough money to safely fly a Moa (according to the "can't afford - don't fly" rule). I've bought 5 250mm railguns and went on to kill some anomaly rats (frigates - destroyers - cruisers).
What I expected would be that if the frigates get to close, I won't be able to hit them because of their high flying speed and slow turret tracking speed. What I, however, did not expect was that when I snipe them from optimal range, the damage will be pitiful. Basically, I hit them for around 80-100 damage each barrage, whereas my Cormorant was usually penetrating them for over 200 hp.
What is the reason for that? Can I counter it somehow? I believe it's caused by the signature radius, so wil target painting improve the damage on the targets?
If I can't really improve the damage, then if I go with Caracal will I achieve full damage versus both small and medium ships using missiles? (haven't played any missile ships yet)
I'll be grateful for any information regarding the problem.
Cheers, J. Slowacki |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
235
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 14:10:50 -
[2] - Quote
clarifying questions:
1. what is your medium hybrid skill and small hybrid turret skill levels?
2. what range are you 'sniping' at?
3. what ammo are you using in the guns?
4. are you seeing a lot of 'glancing' or 'grazing' hits when you are shooting rats with your moa?
5. skill level for caldari crusier and skill level for caldari destroyer? |
J Slowacki
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 14:26:54 -
[3] - Quote
I'm not in the game right now so I will answer some of the question now and some in like 2h when I'm back home.
1. As far as I remember 1 or 2 for medium, 3 for small
2. Optimal is 28km I usually orbit at 26.
3. Thorium (also used thorium when flying Cormorant)
4. Not really, even 'Smashes' was around 90+
5. Can't really remember right now, but Destroyer is probably a level or 2 higher. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4552
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 14:58:41 -
[4] - Quote
Don't orbit small ships, and don't let them orbit you. Fly away from them, forcing them to follow you = 0 traversal velocity. [My Tornado battlecruiser with large turrets can one-shot a frigate at about 30 km, but is totally useless at anything closer.]
Note that ships approaching you from a fair distance will use a MWD, which makes them easier to hit.
You can also fit turrets designed to shoot at the next hull-size class down. These turrets typically are "multi-barrel". Example: Dual 150mm Railgun Of course they are weaker against the same hull-size class, but often this doesn't matter (level 2 missions). Don't mix turret types; fit only one type!
Also drones are ideal for handling smaller ships. Use 'em if you have a drone bay! |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
235
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 15:54:39 -
[5] - Quote
Will re-evaluate when you have a chance to get the specifics later.
That said:
- Tracking and gunnery support skills are not that evident in the smaller turrets against similar sized targets - You are probably just seeing the results of under skilled bigger guns against smaller targets
- My current rail moa blaps rats just fine and its definitely not a bling fit but my support skills are probably much higher. - My first cruiser was a moa! ( moa bros ) and I got it to try and kill stuff in lvl 2 missions faster than my thrasher was. - I was absolutely undewhelmed with its ability to hit the rats too. - I probably had only skill levels 1-2 in the stuff to fit it and almost no support skills. - It died in low sec to my first experience with a small gate camp and wondered why I couldn't warp to the other gate :) - My Take away: My skills weren't up to the task of making the moa work at the time, now I use it to run L3's and the occasional L4 , do not try this at home, you make ISK faster in Lvl 2s, but it can be fun :)
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
302
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 16:54:40 -
[6] - Quote
Gunnery is a very complicated thing in Eve. Eve uni wiki has a gunnery guide and there is a flash based tutorial. Google "eve gunnery" and "eve tracking" maybe try adding guide or tutorial to the end of those searches. But if you want to use turrets in eve you need to understand gunnery and tracking.
Trying to fully explain gunnery here would be too much but some brief tips that are my opinion and come from my experience are:
-turret based dps in Eve seems much more dependent on skills than drones or missiles. Specifically skills that improve: tracking, optimal and falloff.
-The way you pilot you ship has a lot more to do with actual landed dps than drones and missiles.
-Most of my turret ships have multiple tracking modules fit to them, even my drone boats often have drone tracking mods mostly for sentries.
-The signature radius of your ship affects your tracking. Larger ships track slower against smaller ships.
-optimal range is the range within which you have to potential to do max damage not the range at which you need to be within. There are times when you want to be in falloff.
My advice is to get motion prediction to level 5 before any other gunnery skill. Next would be sharpshooter for hybrids and lazors or trajectory analysis for projectiles. Those skills are just for dps considerations you'll need to train skills to help fit them as well. Read up kiting. Read up on gunnery. Read up on tracking. |
Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
889
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 18:02:24 -
[7] - Quote
While it's made from a PVP perspective, this video gives a great tutorial on turret tracking mechanics.
I suspect you will quickly see better results if you stop orbiting and switch to "keep at range" or manually pilot to keep your transversal velocity down.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
GSLLC is recruiting
|
Paranoid Loyd
3661
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 18:30:42 -
[8] - Quote
Tracking is certainly an issue especially when shooting smaller ships.
It should also be pointed out that the Moa gets a damage bonus from training Caldari cruiser, so if you only have it trained to one or two you will get a decent boost from training that more as well.
As you are already using rails consider cross training into Gallente, Thorax for example is a very similar ship but will be able to carry two full sets of light drones while the Moa can't even field one full set, drones will help considerably when small ships get too close or are too fast to hit with rails.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
J Slowacki
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 18:45:16 -
[9] - Quote
Hey, thanks for all the suggestions.
I'm kind of confused about one thing though. Most of you say that the main issue is tracking here, however, isn't tracking only taken into account when checking the hit/miss thing and type of his that is from "glances off" to "wrecks"? |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5713
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 18:51:16 -
[10] - Quote
J Slowacki wrote:Hey, thanks for all the suggestions.
I'm kind of confused about one thing though. Most of you say that the main issue is tracking here, however, isn't tracking only taken into account when checking the hit/miss thing and type of his that is from "glances off" to "wrecks"?
AvgDPS = Base Damage * [ ( ChanceToHit^2 + ChanceToHit + 0.0499 ) / 2 ]
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
|
|
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
235
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 19:05:21 -
[11] - Quote
J Slowacki wrote:Hey, thanks for all the suggestions.
I'm kind of confused about one thing though. Most of you say that the main issue is tracking here, however, isn't tracking only taken into account when checking the hit/miss thing and type of his that is from "glances off" to "wrecks"?
See Above post 1st. Reasoning follows:
Tracking is the only real source of random with gunnery so it is the first thing most turret users look at to get higher consistent damage.
Mechanically, the stats on the larger guns do more damage than the smaller ones. They just do, and can be expected to. ( run a compare on the base damage and multipliers for small / medium turrets and their ammo ).
So when someone says they get more damage from a smaller platform, the problem is practically guaranteed to be tracking. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
303
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 19:09:25 -
[12] - Quote
J Slowacki wrote:Hey, thanks for all the suggestions.
I'm kind of confused about one thing though. Most of you say that the main issue is tracking here, however, isn't tracking only taken into account when checking the hit/miss thing and type of his that is from "glances off" to "wrecks"? You need to read up and watch videos on tracking. There is no one paragraph that someone can write that will explain it to you. I've told you once and I'll tell you again eve gunnery / tracking is complex and you need to understand it so you know how to fit and fly your ship to apply the most and take the least damage.
The short answer to the question that you put forth here is no. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
931
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 19:50:20 -
[13] - Quote
also its possible you were shooting something with higher resists such as an elite npc or just some race with a high resistance to knietic/thermal like sansha/blood raider/angel |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4553
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 23:22:31 -
[14] - Quote
J Slowacki wrote:Hey, thanks for all the suggestions.
I'm kind of confused about one thing though. Most of you say that the main issue is tracking here, however, isn't tracking only taken into account when checking the hit/miss thing and type of his that is from "glances off" to "wrecks"? Chance to hit affects whether you hit or miss, and the quality of the hit. Tracking is part of the chance to hit formula.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage
Wikipedia wrote:If X < ChanceToHit, the shot is a hit. If X > ChanceToHit, the shot is a miss or zero damage is applied.
X also determines the quality of a hit. If X < 0.01, then the Quality Of Hit multiplier = 3. (i.e. a 'Wrecking' shot) If X > 0.01 the Quality Of Hit multiplier = X + 0.5
Also recommended: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT8VqVcLDqc |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |